Subject: SMML11/03/98Vol115 shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- INDEX 1: Re: Mountbatten Pink 2: 1/350 scale WWII British carriers 3: "Blue Devil" by Lindberg 4: Re: New Kid/Color Police 5: SS Normandie 6: Card Models 7: Forrest Sherman DD 8: WTB: 1/700 WW2 aircraft 9: Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien 10: Titanic: The Engine Room 11: Re: What is on the inside of those fire control units? 12: Doxford 13: Dutch Boy Paint Chart 14: HMS Cossack 15: New Kid in the Block 16: Navismagazine.com - MARCH ISSUE, don't miss it!! 17: The Pizzi "Small Stuff" Method 18: One final thought on the colour controversy 19: Re: Color Police ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Sender: da1v@FRC2.frc.ri.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Mountbatten Pink Dear John: It has been reported by Alan Raven and others that there were two shades of Mountbatten Pink. I have the following recipes for the dark and light shades of the color: Light Mountbatten Pink: 50% H106 + 50% HJ4 (Humbrol enamels) Dark Mountbatten Pink: 50% H106 + 50% MC26 (Humbrol enamels) These mixes come from a second source, I have not verified the colors myself. You may want to check out Scott Spencer's home page on the Royal Navy of WWII (http://home.att.net/~scotts-acrosportii/home.htm). There is a special section on camouflage. It is my understanding that all contents of Scott's site will soon be transferred to the new warship site: http://warship.simplenet.com/ I hope this helps, Dimi Apostolopoulos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Lee Francis Wilhelmsen Subject: 1/350 scale WWII British carriers Are there any 1/350 scale full hull British aircraft carriers, and if so, who makes them? I'm especially interested in HMS Ark Royal from this era. Best regards Lee Francis Wilhelmsen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com Subject: "Blue Devil" by Lindberg All, I have just come into a box of parts that turns out to the the Lindberg "Blue Devil" Destroyer, without the hull or main deck. Has anyone got a hull and deck in their salvage yard that I could talk you out of. Conversely, does anyone have a need for just the stuff above the sheerline? Regards, Hank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: witsie/ken mckelvy Subject: Re: New Kid/Color Police Hi to both Jeff & Jon: I'm sticking my nose in here simply to say that I don't think Alberto was attempting to hang the title of "Color Police" on either of you. His use of "Dutch Boy Cliffhanger Grey" was, I believe, simply an illustration of what might be said and (as he has obviously obtained a copy of your list) he simply drew upon the source with which he was most familiar to create the example. The type of self-annointed 'authorities' he describes as Color Police certainly exists and some members of this sacred fraternity are certain to adopt your list as dogma (while others follow a different path); this is inevitable. That your list, and the effort it represents, is misused by an overweening ass can hardly be seen as your responsibility (if your work wasn't there, he'd find some other) and I don't see that that Alberto was even implying anything to the contrary. Having said that, I'll continue by thanking you for my copy of the listing. I found a local source for Behr paint, so I've completed my RN pages (in a camouflage notebook) and will be doing up the USN set in the next week or so. Believe me, the list has been a Godsend. I've never cared enough to follow all the FSN references I see and, when Dan Jones began publishing the Raven articles, I threw up my hands in dismay at the idea of the Munsell numbers: yet another esoteric set of codes which I knew I'd never use. From my standpoint, you folks have made a valuable contribution and, again, my thanks. For those who haven't located sources, in the US, I've found the Dutch Boy samples at Sears and the Behring at Home Depot. For those overseas, I've got spares for most of the references and will send a set to anyone that needs them. Ken McKelvy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: witsie/ken mckelvy Subject: SS Normandie Someone was showing interest in the Normandie a little while back and when I spotted the following on the eBay Auction site I thought I'd pass it on. (There's a picture with the item.) 1940's Normandie Paper Ship Model http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7863504 Ken McKelvy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: witsie/ken mckelvy Subject: Card Models Hello All, Having just posted the item on the Normandie, I thought I'd ask if there's any interest in card models here? I've built one (some thirty years ago) and have fond memories that are tempting me again. There seems to be quite a varied range available and they are interesting projects -- also relatively cheap. Further, the finished product is far sturdier than might be imagined. Ken McKelvy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: LeadSled58 Subject: Forrest Sherman DD Hi group, I just recently acquired a Revell USS Forrest Sherman destroyer from the early 70's and is still sealed. I originally bought it to build, but since it is sealed I was wondering if it is worth hanging on to or are they common enough to go ahead and open it. And advice is gratefully accepted. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: LeadSled58 Subject: WTB: 1/700 WW2 aircraft Ahoy Mates, Need some WW II carrier aircraft in 1/700 or larger scale if anyone has some for sale. Please e-mail me with the details. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien We have put the S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien photo tour on-line at the Warship web site, http://warship.simplenet.com The 40 pictures in this photo set cover every facet of the ship. Those of you building a Liberty Ship, or waiting for the much anticipated Skywave injection molded 1/700 Liberty Ship release (due in June), need look no further. It's all here. And Titanic fans, we've got something for you. One whole page of this photo tour is devoted to the O'Brien's engine room and its triple expansion steam engine. The movie Titanic used this setting in filming the engine room scenes. Check it out. Click on the "Photo Tour" button on the Warship home page. Rob Mackie El Cerrito, California Warship http://warship.simplenet.com The Free Site for Ship Modelers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Titanic: The Engine Room Titanic fans, check out the photo tour of the Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien at http://warship.simplenet.com Click on the Photo Tour button on the Warship home page. The movie's engine room scenes used the O'Brien's engine room as backdrop. This Liberty Ship's marine design triple expansion steam engines were of the same type used on Titanic. One whole page of this photo tour is devoted to this setting. Rob Mackie El Cerrito, California Warship http://warship.simplenet.com The Free Site for Ship Modelers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Dbrown303 Subject: Re: What is on the inside of those fire control units? Hello all, Anyone know what is on the inside of those narrow octagonal shaped battle lookout station / main battle director units that are on top of the old battlships' tripods. The ship I am building is the Texas, but the Floating Drydock plans dont really illustrate what is going on. Perhaps there is a book out there (the big Arizona book?) that has a photo of this area? I am guessing that there are some sort of high powered binoculars on the port and starboard side? While I am at it, anyone know what the interior color was for these units? I assume an off white or perhaps light gray? Lots of quesitons, but its the details that count. Thanks in advance, Derek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Doxford Hi All, I am trying to get hold of Jim Shirley's Doxford and other merchant vessel kits here in the UK. Doe anyone know an importer/retailer? Regards, Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Alberto Rada Subject: Dutch Boy Paint Chart A short time ago I bought from Commander Series Models their 1/350 HMS Zulu, (a beautiful ship, model and a flawless casting) and on their instructions they state that the Deck should be painted Dutch Boy Cliffhanger Grey etc. As I do not live in the States but in sunny South America, I didn't know that it was referred to a well known paint brand so I didn't have a clue as to what color where they referring to. Now that I know . . . . can someone let me know where can I find Dutch Boy's color chart, can it be bought ? Jon Warneke has kindly offered me to send their Color Matches, so I only need now the D B chart. Thanks a lot SALUDOS Alberto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Alberto Rada Subject: HMS Cossack As previously stated I am the proud owner of CSM HMS Zulu, but was thinking of making the model as another Tribal Class Destroyer, HMS Cossack, for the sole reason that I know a bit more about this ship's history etc. Are there any significant changes between the two ? any hint, help ? SALUDOS Alberto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Alberto Rada Subject: New Kid in the Block To Jon and Jeff When I mentioned the dreaded Color Police in my previous message, I was off course referring to characters I have encountered on the Air Corps branch of this hobby and that without doubt exist here on the Navy too, I am still too green and naïve to have encountered them here, but I am sure I will, unfortunately. I could by no means have referred to you guys as up to my knowledge, you would make a couple of lousy Color Policemen. You see, first of all you have investigated and researched, and that's wrong, totally wrong. A good Color Policeman does not investigates, HE KNOWS, that's it. Furthermore, research is verboten, the first thing you learn out of research is that the deeper you go the less certain you are about absolute truth and that many indisputable truths today may crumble with the next layer of knowledge. Secondly you have wasted time, you have written books, made patterns for masters and even dared to make models and worst of all, even tried to help modelers, terrible, terrible, you are way out of line, a true Color Policeman will dedicate his whole life, heart and soul to CRITISIZE and only CRITISIZE other peoples work. SALUDOS Alberto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Navismagazine.com - MARCH ISSUE, don't miss it!! Navismagazine.com is the best source for air&sea enthusiasts and modelers on the internet. Free pages are fine but noone can afford to give you THIS MUCH for free every month. In the March issue: - THE LARGEST YAMATO MODEL IN THE WORLD (plus fantastic large scale IJN and JMSDF models - a Navismagazine.com EXCLUSIVE!!!) - ADMIRAL YAMAMOTO'S BETTY (with color profile and a rare picture of the wreck) - COOL BRITANNIA: ROYAL YACHT WALKAROUND (another Navismagazine EXCLUSIVE!!) - 360 DEGREES: HARRIER II PLUS WALKAROUND - WARSHIPS OF THE XXI CENT. - Pt 2: AMPHIBIOUS SHIPS - THE PACIFIC SQUADRON AT BREMERTON - BUILDING THE NEW PM 1/48 ME-410 - 1/200 SCALE WIKING WARSHIPS - BUILDING A PIER DIORAMA IN 1/700 - CLASSIC KITS: HELLER's 1/400 HMS HOOD - CLASSIC KITS: MATCHBOX's 1/700 HMS EXETER - MODEL SHOWCASE - MODELER PROFILE - ON THE MARKET - PRODUCT REVIEWS - NAVAL RECONNAISSANCE - NEWS FROM THE KIT INDUSTRY - NEW BOOKS - LETTERS - BULLETIN BOARD - MYSTERY PICTURE - WIN A 1/48 Academy Hawker Hunter FGA9 (a $25 value) - TRIVIA QUIZ - WIN A GMM 1/240 USS Buckley/Ward detail set (a $40 value) HUNDREDS of color and historical pictures, every month dozens new models, color profiles, line drawings, BUILDING ARTICLES YOU WON'T FIND ANYWHERE ELSE. All of this for a mere $1.66 per month. Subscribe to Navismagazine.com and help the best resource for shipmodelers get even better!!! http://navismagazine.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: The Pizzi "Small Stuff" Method >> Apply a liquid mask with a brush and make sharp angles with an XActo knife. You can even do it in 1/700. << Paolo, GREAT IDEA!! I've got to get out more! This method sure kicks the pants off cutting and fitting all that tape. For me the tape method has proven to be a tried and true method, but your method takes it hands down. I am going to give it a go ASAP. it sounds like it is quick, easy,inexpensive, and judging from the superb quality I've seen of your modeling efforts, it would seem almost impossible to improve on it!! Eric ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: One final thought on the colour controversy Jon and Jeff, Hope my remarks about colour concerns being "exact" weren't taken out of context. I'm sure they weren't. I can only imagine the amount of time and research you fellows put into those chart matches and it is appreciated. I couldn't have said it better in reference to "having fun with it" . That is certainly what the hobby should be about. In the same breath, you are absolutely correct about a beautiful, finished, model sitting in an expensive display case and not going that last lap to insure the colours are as accurate as possible. I guess what I was trying to imply was, with all of those variables that we have discussed, if it is as close to "correct" as the modeler feels comfortable with, then that is what should matter most. Thanks for your response!! This page is getting better all the time!!! Could you guys send me an emailed copy of those "Dutch Boy" #s. I would appreciate it!! Thanks,guys, Eric ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ives100 Subject: Re: Color Police Actually, I think these guys deserve a vote of thanks for the service they have done. As they point out in their postings, weathering and other effects make an absolutely accurate match inpossible. Heck, if you buy a book on a particular ship and use it for painting color guides, you need to be aware that the type of lighting, color film, printing process and many other variables affect the color you see. Also, talking to guys who served on submarines during WWII, the shipyards used and mixed whatever paint color they had that got close enough "for government work" to the color called for in a particular measure. Point is, it's great to have a convenient color guide when the instructions call for some shade of color that you never heard of. Hat's off to the guys who did all this work. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume