Subject: SMML23/06/98VOL219 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:02:03 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Cats - and Modelling 2: New Name 3: Re: scrapped/expended 4: Ships that should have been saved, and 2x per class? 5: Arizona casemate guns 6: Russian paints... 7: Re: SMML meaning and Nats show 8: Help With RN Cruisers (And Another Candidate or Two for Prettiest Ship) 9: Olympic Class Ocean Liner Deck Plans 10: Condition of the Prinz Eugen 11: Yada-yada-Yamato 12: How to light up a Big E hangar deck? 13: Resin kits, specifically Houston 14: SS United States 15: Ships that shouldve been saved 16: Iowa ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS & ANNOUNCEMENTS INDEX 1: Re: PSM announcement 2: ATTN : Cataldo Torelli ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Cats - and Modelling Ok I'll kick the tread off, I've 4 felines, (Theo, Blackie, Arfur and Sir-kits, no I didn't name them). We inherited the house with the cats already in residence, so they were already grown up, and all of them are now in feline middle age, so the destructive urges of kittenhood are well past . The only real problems I've had is one occasion when Blackie, our only female, went for a walk through part of my 1/48th WWII collection, net result, one bent Spitfire F24, and an battered Mustang Mk1. They constantly wonder in and out of my workroom , usually looking for attention, but don't stay long, especially when the compressor's running. So I guess I can't complain about them too ,much, and if there is a moral, get older cats, far less trouble! Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Sheridan Subject: New Name >>How about "The Captian's Mast"<< Nice one. I kinda like it How about: "The Bilge Pump" ?!?!? John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: scrapped/expended Graham Holmes wrote: >> Regarding lists of things, what about top ten warships that should have been preserved. Note, ship must have been scrapped/expended not sunk. My Votes: HMS Warspite USS Enterprise HMS Illustrious DKM Prinz Eugen USS Saratoga Richilieu RN Vittorio Veneto HMS Dreadnought SMS Baden HMS Sheffield << I could not possibly agree more with the first two. The scrapping of those two ships qualifies as a crime against history. As pretty as she might have been, though, the Vittorio Veneto didn't really do all that much in WWII. Similarly, the Baden wasn't all that active in WWI. Some others that might have warranted preservation include the Nagato, the Yavuz/Goeben HMS Rodney, USS Heerman (DD-532) HMS Canada, (last survivor of Jutland) certainly the USS South Dakota & USS Washington. I'll bet we could easily come up with over a hundred for the top ten list. ;-) David R. Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Ships that should have been saved, and 2x per class? Hi, I think the Pennsylvania should have been saved, and not involved in Nuclear Testings and later scuttled. Especially after what happened to her sister, which leads me to my next question. Why were there only 2 ships per class in these days,eg, Pennsylvania & Arizona, Nevada & Oklahoma, New York & Texas, Wyoming & Arkansas, Florida & Utah etc....? Greg (Listmaster - SMML) P.S. SMML = Some Marriages Must Lack:-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Seitz_Mark/AMARC_FM@amdiss1.dm.af.mil Subject: Arizona casemate guns Les, The Arizona's secondary battery was in fact, pintle mounted (pivot guns). The mounts were almost exactly like those of Texas, preserved near Houston. The guns fired through "windows" in the armor casemate, and when not in use, the openings could be covered with canvas, or a semi-permanent set of plates. When in use, the canvas covers were rolled up to the top of the opening, and the plates, I believe, were struck into the superstructure. The little kit turrets, can be said to represent the secondary battery with the plates installed, but the barrels of the guns are grossly overscale. The last time I built Arizona (I'm planning one right now, I got the GMM set, what a beauty!), I modified the secondary battery thusly: The kit turrets were discarded I used Evergreen HO scale 1X2 strips, and bent them around the little knobs left on the forecastle deck, behind the casemate bulkheads, flush with the forecastle deck. This looked like the bottom "sill" of the openings. I did the same thing to the underside of the 01 deck piece. Then, I scratchbuilt the 5/51 barrels out of stretched sprue, and cemented them onto the "knobs" that remained on the forecastle deck. After cementing the 01 level to the forecastle deck, I filled in the openings with putty to represent canvas. Bottom line, after I got all done, you would have to be a real stickler for accuracy to notice the changes. When I do it again this time, I think I might just replace the barrels. My .02, Best of luck Mark Seitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Roberto Paredes" Subject: Russian paints... Hello again, I have 2 Russian ships, but I don't know how is thier colors. The instructions use Gunze-San...but my hobby shops don't have it. They have only Humbrol, Testor and Tamiya. How is the color's number (Humbrol, Testor or Tamiya) or similar that I can use it? The hull's color is the most important. Regards, Roberto. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML meaning and Nats show Ahoy there! After reading, and contributing to, the recent Yamato bigger-is-better-most- beautiful/ugly ship thread, I've concluded that SMML stands for: Sex Minimal- Misdirected Lust I mean, FOUR FEET of phallic potency. Waahoo! ******* I will be attending the Nats show and will take notes for posting on this list. Report subject to spontaneous ranting and raving... Admiral G ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Help With RN Cruisers (And Another Candidate or Two for Prettiest Ship) I hope we have finished the discussion involving the attractiveness of various ships. For what it's worth, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Vittorio Veneto and her sisters as among the most attractive battleships ever built. These ships have to rank up there and to the eye are more pleasing than 99% of the ships out there. Also, what about the Hood? Now there was no more recongizable ship in the era between the wars and what a sleek looking vessel (never mind her bad armor arrangements). Now for my questions. I am in the midst of building two British cruisers and need all sorts of help. I am converting WEM's Penelope to Aurora post war (right around her handover to the Nationalist Chinese and before her defection to the Communists). I have one nice profile photo and loads of parts thanks to Dave and Caroline, but I need good quality plans and more photos (not Norman Ough plans. Also the plans in Whitley's book don't make the grade) showing superstructure changes, armament, and radar configurations. I have just ordered Hi-Mold's Dorsetshire, which represents her as built pre-war. I want to build her as she appeared during the hunt for the Bismarck. Again I need good plans and photos, as well as a description of her paint scheme around May 1941. Now if I only had Raven and Roberts' book! Yunchi Hsaio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) Subject: Olympic Class Ocean Liner Deck Plans From: Duane Fowler I've received a couple of enquiries about the 1/350 deck plans of the Olympic Class ocean liners I am working on. Altough I am not planning on selling them, I will happily give them to anyone interested. I will also give them to Lee Francis Wilhelmsen to post on his web site at http://home.sol.no/~leefw/models/ olong with the conversion articles. I should be finished in a month (Yeah, I am a bit slow). Regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Steve Sobieralski Subject: Condition of the Prinz Eugen Further reading of James P. Delgado's book Ghost Fleet: The Sunken Ships of Bikini Atoll requires this addendum to what I wrote yesterday. The Prinz Eugen was not severely damaged by either of the bomb tests at Bikini, but was heavily contaminated with radioactivity. The amount and severity of the radioactivity was a big surprise to the military and they were unprepared to cope with it. When efforts at Bikini to decontaminate the surviving ships proved unsuccessful, it was decided to move these ships to Kwajalein where they could be guarded and monitored. Most of the ships were moved to Kwaj in August, 1946. On December 21, a boarding party found the PE listing and sinking by the stern. An attempt was made to beach the ship, but the combination of underpowered tugs and strong winds left her broadside to the beach, grounded on a coral ledge. The flooding continued and just after midnight on the 22nd she capsized and sank. Her port side sustained damage that was reported by the US Navy dive team that examained her in 1974 as cracked and dented shell plating. Apparantly the ensuing years have greatly exacerbated this damage. According to Delgado, who examined the ship in 1989, the internal bulkheads and compartments, which are of aluminum construction, have suffered heavily from salt water corrosion and the ship is slowly collapsing from the inside. While he does not address the issue of salvaging the ship, the impression one draws from his description of her condition is not an optimistic one. The book also describes Delgado's dives on the ships that were sunk at Bikini, including a detailed account of his dives to the Saratoga. I would recommend it to anyone with an interest in warships, naval/military history and marine archaeology. Steve Sobieralski ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Steven Rogers Subject: Yada-yada-Yamato Well guys all this talk of beautiful ships, I couldn't resist comment. As far as IJN goes, I prefer the Musashi over her sister. The AA fit looks more aesthetic, if less effective. Let's not mince words however, for pure lines I prefer the North Carolina class, nevermind I can walk her decks. I live in North Carolina and saw her two months ago, I could be just a little prejudiced. After that I'd go for the Royal Navy's Vanguard, and I'm no big fan of the RN. The Kreigsmarine looks real good with Bismark and the Prinz. Adding another vote to the fray, the Alaskas are quite striking. Quoting Dennis Miller, "It's just my opinion, I could be wrong." Steve Rogers Charlotte, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Terry Sumner" Subject: How to light up a Big E hangar deck? Hello all, I'm at the point now where I have to figure out how I'm going to make all the ceiling lights in my scratchbuilt Big E hangar deck light up! A large problem complicates things in that there is only about 1/16th of an inch between the bottom of the flight deck and the top of the ceiling structure I have built. I've thought about doing this a couple of ways. 1) I thought of using fiber optic strands, one to each light, with a light source in the display base. This would take care of any heat buildup problem by getting the light source out of the hull, let alone changing a burned out bulb someday. However, due to the small space, I'm not sure if I can get the fibers to bend satisfactorily enough to sufficiently light each light fixture. I also thought about just leaving each fiber straight and pointing it at a 45 degree reflector of some sort over each fixture to get the light going downwards. Again a space problem, but I think it would work. 2) I also thought of using one of those "Lightsheets" I've seen advertised in FineScale Modeler. I thought of placing the sheet on top of the ceiling structure where the light could shine down through a hole cut in the ceiling over each light fixture. Has anyone ever used these Lightsheets before? Is there any heat? They say none. Do they emit sufficient light to light up the hangar bay? Has anyone else out there ever done this before? (light up the interior of a carrier hangar deck) If so, how did you do it and is there anything you would change from how you did do it? Also, what did you use to construct each light fixture? Terry Sumner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Seitz_Mark/AMARC_FM@amdiss1.dm.af.mil Subject: Resin kits, specifically Houston Folks, I was told that there is a 1/350 USS Houston available. I've never built a resin kit, but was wondering if someone in this august body has. If so, could you throw a few pointers/things to look out for this way? I would really appreciate the take on resin, there are so many subject covered by them. Thanks, Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: SS United States Hello Lee, I have built the Revell 1/600 SS United States model with the Gold Medal Model Merchant Ship set and I find it a pretty accurate model. The Glencoe 1/400 (actually somewhere in between 1/400 and 1/450) is a re-issue of the Ideal Toy Company's kit from the 1950's. ITC went out of business some time ago, but Glencoe somehow acquires these molds and over time re-issues these kits. I too have heard that the Glencoe kit lacks detail and actually resembles the SS America in terms of proportions. If it is meant to be the SS US, it is to short both in hull length and superstructure height. In those terms it is more like the SS America. I have seen the kit so to make it the America would still need quite a bit scratch-building of sections if my memory serves my right. Even with the new Gold Medal 1/450 Merchant Ship set, it would still require quite a bit of work to make it into either ship. The Glencoe re-issue of the ITC SS France is much better. Best of Luck, Felix Bustelo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Ships that shouldve been saved How about Jellicoe's flagship from Jutland? The Iron Duke wasn't scrapped until 1946... Another Jutland veteren that lasted even longer (and in better condition) was the Chilean dreadnought Almirante Latorre, which was at Jutland as HMS Canada. Regarding the Goeben/Yavuz, I recall reading that efforts were made to preserve her on several occasions in the sixties but that the negotiations fell through... I don't recall the details. Above all, I wish someone had saved the Warspite... Veteren of Jutland, Narvik, Cape Matapan, etc... She had a very impressive service record... Maybe not the most beautiful battleship, but she's always been my own favorite. Jeffrey Roberts ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "David P. Judy III" Subject: Iowas James, I belive the NJ, MISS., and WISC. all had similar closed in bridges except the IOWA, she was built with an open bridge, later closed in. An excellent book on the subject is ...IOWA CLASS BATTLESHIPS, Their Design,Weapons,& Equipment by Robert Sumrall(Naval Institute Press)Its about 50 bucks, but well worth it! Dave Judy **NOTE FROM LISTMASTER** NJ was actually built with a very interesting round bridge, which would make quiet an interesting piece at any model show!! Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS & ANNOUNCEMENTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: PSM announcement I regret to announce that Plastic Ship Modeler Magazine is late again. For about a year both myself and my printer have been plagued with equipment and system failures, and this time was no exception. For those (and I know there are quite a few of you) who subscribe to PSM and also monitor this news group, the number 17 PSM issue is at the printer and should be mailed in about 10 days. Sorry again for the delays. I can only hope you will find it worth the wait when it arrives. The number 17 issue will feature three merchant ship plans (WW I era freighters) and a large and detailed plans set for the USS PORTER 1942 drawn by Alan Raven. The PORTER plans have not been previously published. In our continuous effort to improve our product we have added a more photos in this issue, PORTER class destroyers, Canadian aricraft carrier HMSC BONAVENTURE, and three pages featuring the superb diorama models by Chris Drage. Daniel Jones Editor/Publisher Plastic Ship Modeler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Cataldo Torelli Cataldo: I have been trying to contact you for several days now at without success, concerning the kits you are interested in purchasing. If you see this message, please contact me as soon as possible with a correct or alternative email address where you can be reached. Thanks! Mike Eisenstadt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume