Subject: SMML26/06/98VOL222 Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:00:25 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ship Preservation 2: USS Ford bridge wing supports? 3: Re - USS Ford bridge wing supports? 4: Yet another Yamato model 5: Type 21 HMS Ambuscade help needed 6: RE: MARU Specials on JMSDF ships 7: RE: USS SAN FRANCISCO 8: 1/250 Doyusha Shinano 9: Re: Thank you 10: Iowa-class Battlecruiser 11: Re: Top 10 Ships for Preservation 12: Battle Stars 13: Illustrious Horror Story! 14: Revell Yacht America 15: Minneapolis v. San Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: AD: Garcia class Frigates in 1/700 2: WTD - 1/350 Upswept Bow Rail 3: RE: Driving time to Thousand Oaks 4: The new WEM "Absurd Number of Funnels" series 5: Pacific Front Trade order 6: Nationals/Lunch Dinner 7: Alaska ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Ship Preservation I've been following the Prservation thread with intrest. As a relative newcomer to Warship modelling, I was amazed when researching the KG5 class to see that these wonderful ships were still around in the late 50's, (they all seem to have been scrapped around 1958, the year I was born!), Vanguard being around even longer . Preserving at least one of these ships must have been technically possible, but I think the real problem was one of cost, coupled with the relative lack of interest in naval heritage at the time. The WWII was still relatively fresh in people's minds, and the thought of spending precious money on preserving these reminders of less happy times was simply not an option. America, (CV-6 Enterprise) not withstanding does seem to have tried to hang on their naval heritage with a degree more enthusiasms than us Brits. Granted a cruiser or two and WWII era carrier would be nice, but at least you have the odd BB around to provide a tangible link to your history. Not to mention preserving one of the greatest liners of all times, Queen Mary. If we're talking about a wish list , then yes Warspite would have been my choice, but the poor girl would have needed a major restoration effort to repair much of her late war damage. Vanguard would also have been a simple project to preserve, along with Sheffield, and perhaps a Flower class corvette, but what about one of the fleet carriers as well, just think of the museum you could have built in the hanger desk of Illustrious! As someone who's never seen anything larger than HMS Belfast in the flesh, I do wish back in the 50's some though had been given to preserving some of the RN's history for posterity , and allowing us Post War children the ability to touch a piece of history. Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: USS Ford bridge wing supports? Greg, Saw the pix of your excellent USS Ford on the warship page. Just one question... All the Perry-class ships I've seen have a pair of support poles under each bridge wing. Your Ford doesn't have them. Did the real ship not have those supports, or did you just elect not to put them in? Reason I ask is that I have a 1:700 Perry FFG about 70% built, and Ford is one of the ships I'm considering for markings. Les ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From - Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject - Re: USS Ford bridge wing supports? Hi Les, Well, you got me, they aren't there (I am amazed you were able to pick that out in the photo's) Yes, the USS Ford does have them, she is no different to any of the other Ollies in that respect, I have simply Neglected them. This will be rectified at the next sitting - thanks for bringing me to attention on that! (I am amazed I ever get time to build models at all these days - SMML is HUGE lately!) I have some nice Pics of Ford from when I visited her in January if you want to see some? Greg (Listmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Michael Kear Subject: Yet another Yamato model Just thought you would be interested to know that a poor misguided soul in Task Force 72 has completed his Yamato hull in 1/72 scale and is starting fitting it out. He is looking for a goodly supply of people who don't mind a hernia to help him launch it. This behemoth will be so big he will have to transport it on a truck or a modified boat trailer. But I for one can't wait to see it on the water in November at our annual fleet exercise. Fair winds and following seas, Mike Kear, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Michael Kear Subject: Type 21 HMS Ambuscade help needed I'm building a 1/72 scale model of HMS Ambuscade, (F172) a British Type 21 frigate as at 1993. I went aboard the ship with my camera and snapped a whole lot pictures. I have a book about the class, and I have researched the ship for ages and ages. But I have realised that in all my materials, I have no record of the letters to be found on this ship's flight deck. HMS Avenger, has AG, Amazon has AZ etc. Does anyone know what the letters were for HMS Ambuscade? Fair winds and following seas, Mike Kear, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Pacific Front Hobbies RE: MARU Specials on JMSDF ships My latest Antheil Booksellers catalog showed a large collection of high-numbered MARUS on JMSDF ships from about 58 on, reasonably priced. I tossed the catalog, so I don't have their phone number, but they are probably listed under information...the town is East Bellmore (West?) New York. They also advertise in Sea Classics. The best detail references for JMSDF ships are the 2 Anatomy of JMSDF Ships by Grand Prix Shuppan. Kaijinsha/Ships of the World also publishes an excellent photo reference book (with color) on JMSDF vessels Bill Gruner http://www.pacificfront.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: RE: USS SAN FRANCISCO I believe from my last conversation with him that Steve Wiper is planning a book on the SF, as part of his series on US cruisers. Someone (like me, if I remember) on the list who's going to the IPMS(USA) Nationals should ask him, and then pass the word to the list. John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Summa, Kenneth J" Subject: 1/250 Doyusha Shinano I actually built this kit almost a decase ago and I can now say that it is waiting for that trip to the lake to be put to rest. While it is huge, that is about all that is going for it. Forget about the molded on railings, the fit of all of the deck pieces and the hangar walls are atrocious. Be prepared to spend a lot of time filling the seems and bending and twisting the pieces to fit. A completely new rudder, as well as the auxiliary rudder, will need to be scratchbuilt. If you do not intend on motorizing it, then the prop shafts, outlets, and props will also need to be scratchbuilt. The hull may also have some problems, too. The kit has a hard knuckle on the sides of the hull forward that is not supposed to be there and the aft end of the stern has the wrong shape. Shinano did not have the cruiser stern that the battleships did. However, I think that this kit may date back to the '60s or earlier but is very crude by today's standards. Another option for a large scale Shinano is the 1/300 Nichimo kit. It is very rare and very expensive (a friend paid $300 for his 6 mths ago). It is much more accurate and the quality approaches Tamiya. There are a couple of really good references on her. First, there is Gurkse and Dulins' book Axis Battleships of WW2. Also, and much more valuable, is the book Shinano! written by the skipper of the sub that sank her, the Archerfish. His name is Joseph Enright. This book is in paperback and sells for under $8, a real bargain for what is in it. Hope this helps, Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Thank you I posted a request for a source for plans of the Russian Helicopter Cruiser Moskva about two weeks back. All the answers I recieved were discouraging due to the fact that (I assume) drawings just didn't exist. I opened my mail this mourning and inside were some pretty decent 1/600 scale drawings of the Moskva! I can easily zing these up to 1/350 to scratchbuild a model. There was no mention who sent these drawings. Only that they came from England. No return address. I just wanted whoever sent this stuff that I am very gratefull for your help. This person went to the time and expence to copy to scale, add a few photos and mail them to me. Not only that, they were in a large manila folder to protect them. I just wanted to say thank you to the person who was so kind and considerate. I have always said modelers are the frendliest people there are. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Foeth" Subject: Iowa-class Battlecruiser I cannot agree with James Corley that the Iowa-class are battlecruiser, just because of their superior speed and their inability to outgun the Yamato. By the start of World War Two, thanks to refined engine design, battleships were able to match battlecruiser speeds, while retaining heavy armor, rendering the battlecruiser obsolete just before the battleship was rendered obsolete by the carrier (which was shortly after rendered obsolete by the submarine). The classic definition does not hold for modern battleships. Everyone agrees that modern battlecruisers, such as the Alaska class, were a fiasco, from a shipbuilders point of view, completely unable to defend themselves against the battleships, too small to contain an effective torpedo defense, too light to be properly armoured. Also, the cruiser definition cannot fit the Iowa's, just because the Japanese build these larger, but slower ships. If the German superbattleships were build, would this render the Yamato a battlecruiser? I think not. The blue ribbon can be attributed to but a single ship. A class of vessels contains a range of similar ships, and is not pinned to a single ship, in this case the Yamato. If you want to discuss battleship/cruiser definitions, take the Scharnhorsts! Anyway, I think at least one of the Iowa's must be preserved, too many of these historic ships have disappeared. But I also think reactivation of one or two of them, and converting them to a platform for marines should be an option too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Allan Plumb Subject: Re: Top 10 Ships for Preservation Hey, I thought that one of the things we were all doing here was itself ship preservation? It's a lot more cost effective and takes up a lot less space. Where would we _put_ all those preserved ships? Who's going to pay for them? Who's going to go see them? I'd sure like to see some of the scrapped ships - I've seen Texas several times (I'm in Houston), Alabama, Constellation, and all the smaller fry nearby, and enjoyed them all. (OTOH, I'm also bugged by the necessary short cuts taken during preservation - I see the warts.) But hey, if nobody wants to pay the price, they're going to be scrapped. Just because I want something doesn't mean it'll happen. In other words - it'll take a lot more than your $0.02 worth... That being said, I vote for Vanguard and Jean Bart as the last two battleships, there will never be any more. And how about all the USN nukes now being effectively scrapped - I'd love to see the cruiser USS Texas, or a Los Angeles SSN. "Consistency is the bane of the small-minded." Allan Plumb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Battle Stars Yunchi Hsaio wrote: >> USS San Francisco (CA-38)-A great candidate, because she was one of the most decorated ships in the USN and second only to the Big E in battle stars with 17. << I realize this is sort of off topic, but what's the story on awarding Battle Stars to USN ships? Today's ships wear the facsimiles of award ribbons they receive painted on their bridge wings, but what did they do in WW2 to show that a Battle Star had been awarded? Was it purely a "paper" award? Did crew members get something to show that they had served in combat on a ship and thus won a Battle Star as well? There was no information on this topic at the Naval Historical Center web site. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Mark Kwasnycia Subject: Illustrious Horror Story! Hello all, Minutes ago, I completed my Heller 1/400 H.M.S. Illustrious kit, or rather, work on this project has finally come to an end... Work on this model commenced somewhere around 14 months ago, and if I may say so myself, was beautiful. The extended building time was largely taken up with the sort of activities that are probably familiar... rebuilding the island structure to correct perceived inaccuracies, scratch-building pom poms, and hours spent gazing at old photographs trying to determine if the (insert innocuous fitting) looked "just right", or needed replacement with yet another hand-built masterpiece. Finally, there simply wasn't anything left to do, except to attach the anchors (something I normally do last... don't ask me why!) and then to proudly carry her up from my basement workshop, to the accompiament of "Come Dear, come see the prettiest flattop you've ever seen". As I was carefully placing the last anchor, a loud "snap" ensued - which was Illustrious deciding that she couldn't wait for her maiden voyage up the stairs, whereupon she flew across my workbench, impacted the wall at a scale speed of at least 30 knots, rebounded backwards, and attempted to emulate the miniature stringbags which now littered the bench, by flying towards the floor. As you can well imagine, the end result isn't very pretty. Once I recovered from the exertion of dodging all the flying bits of PE, broken HF aerials, etc., I simply sat there staring at what just might be the beginnings of a diorama entitled "Illustrious after a nasty Stuka encounter in the Med"... Funnily (I'm in shock, or suffering from Post traumatic stress syndrome!), my first thought was "I have to send this to SMML, somebody'll get a laugh out of this!" Anybody else have any "horror stories"? Thanks for listening, er, reading! I've got to go start work on my Heller 1/400 Richelieu now, but then again, maybe I should take up gardening... Mark Kwasnycia Ottawa ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Revell Yacht America I recently acquired a copy of the 1969 edition of the Revell Yacht America. This is the version that came with cloth-like sails, and a detachable fin keel for use when sailing the model on the local pond. I had this model when I was a youngster-- it was my favorite free sailing boat-- it was much faster than the other sailboats I sailed at the local pond! I'm happy to have gotten it, but I'm not sure what I'll do with it yet. I am curious, though, as to how much the kit (unbuilt, in excellent condition) is worth. I'm also wondering how rare these things are. This is the only copy I've ever seen since the one I got in 1970 or so. (I know Revell re-released it in the mid 80s, but without the parts to make a sailing model.) Why am I writing? Mainly 'cause I'm proud of my new acquisition, and I wanted to share the news with folks who'd appreciate it. I'm pretty sure I want to build it to sail, and may go ahead and convert it to RC. Bill Acton, Mass, USA Bill and Kaja Michaels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: Minneapolis v. San Francisco Hi, I'm sure that Classic Warship with USS Minneapolis would be suitable for USS San Francisco in 1942. But in Guadalcanal campaign both were damaged in diffirent ways. Minneapolis almost lost her bow in battle near Tassafaronga, San Francisco achieved heavy bridge damages during battle near Savo Island. They were repaired and rebuild during 1943. I don't know if they were rebuild in the same way, but at some photos is visible that there are important diffirences. So I could search for other references to build Frisco in 1944. Greetings. Damian Pliszka (POLAND) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: AD: Garcia class Frigates in 1/700 In response to inquiries about this kit, we have in stock now the excellent Corsair Armada resin kit for $39.00. These ships (not counting USS Glover FF-1098) were the last class before the Knox class. I believe these ships have all been retired or are serving with foreign navies. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From - Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject - WTD - 1/350 Upswept Bow Rail Hi All, Just wondering if anybody has a spare 1/350 Upswept Bow Rail for my USS MISSOURI? (I know this one is gonna be as rare as hens teeth, but if you don't ask.......) Greg (Listmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Snyder Subject: RE: Driving time to Thousand Oaks Depends on what day you're going, and what time you may get down there (i.e., whether you're going to hit rush hour traffic on that end). Anyway, you're looking at between 4 and 5 hours driving time SJ to TO (2 hours to San Luis Obispo, another hour to Santa Barbara, another hour to TO if you're living clean). John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Dave Carter Subject: The new WEM "Absurd Number of Funnels" series Thanks Art and Mark.. Incidentally, the loyal and devoted band of followers of White Ensign are now being called "WEMblies".. an amusing term invented by Mark K... did you build your Hood by the way?? Anyhow, watch out for the badges and T-Shirts! Obviously, re. ridiculous numbers of funnels on ships, it seems that we have a few leads.. the Musee de Maritime holds plans for many ships... you're right chaps.. the info in Conway's/Jane's is totally inadequate.. I can feel a research trip to France coming on.... good food, good wine... mmmmm!!! Perhaps Autumn, after we've recovered from the Nationals trip... and if you want us to bring anything in particular, to the California show, please let us know, as you can only get so much into cabin luggage.... Look forward to chinwagging with many of you over there! Cheers Caroline White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Dave Carter Subject: Pacific Front Trade order Hi Guys, I just posted a reply to "Wild" Billy Gruner.... and we will bringing all the items he mentioned and more to the convention... around 80 helo/plane types, the O Class and Hood etched brass.. 1/700 Nelson/Rodders brass delayed once more...shame! And the "700 Professional" range, with the NEW 1/350 Sheffield kit (Sheet number 2 of 11" x 5" etched brass parts turned up for it today...). We may not have a new run of FW Kondors ready in time, nor Buccs, but we will try! Oh FUN!!! WEM has a 16 feet space to fill.. as has Bill.. Steve Wiper of Classic will have 5 new 1/350 Scale subjects there, a couple of new 1/192 items, and several new 1/700 Scale items on display (6ft 5 inches, dark, good looking guy with "Village People" moustache..). Good line in tight jeans... yip, yip! This trip is gonna be worth doing just to see Loren Perry's new 1/350 Titanic Model from the Academy kit, by all accounts...COOL!! I remember the Arizonas from last year... ah well, back to packing models into boxes... Cheers The WEMblies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Nationals/Lunch Dinner John, If you're bringing Alan Raven to lunch/dinner, then who's going to be selling my book...hmmm? :-) Jeff Herne PS: Alan Raven and I will be doing a roundtable lunchtime discussion after my 11am-12pm lecture on USN camouflage on Friday. If you're at the Nats, be sure to block out 10am to 1pm...I just finished scanning all of Alan's pictures for his presentation...including lots of "no one has EVER seen this before" camoflauge patterns for some very famous RN vessels. We'll be seeing everybody there... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:22:08 -0400 Subject: Alaska Caroline, Regarding your earlier confirmation of my back-ordered aircraft, your list looks correct. I'll sit on my hands and wait. My ship back-orders should include the Sussex, the Polish destroyer Bl..., and six Soviet subs. Unfortunately, today is my birthday, prompting me to do something foolish. Please send me the CW Alaska, and the damaged DM Markab. I had also intended to get the Callaway at some point, but I guess that I waited too long. Have fun in California. I won't have the scratch to go this year, but at least I'll know that I sent you and Bill Gruner. Thanks, Mark Sloan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume