Subject: SMML10/07/98VOL236 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:24:01 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Judges 2: Re: new to me (1/700 USS Montana) 3: resin and brass for Revel PT boats 4: A responce to Ken Durling 5: Designing photo-etched parts 6: USN Grey 7: Titanic Gold Stripes 8: 1/350 vs 1/700 9: Re: MONTANA kit from Imperial Navy 10: Scale vs. flawlessness 11: US Nats Details ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Ad Classifications and Subject Lines 2: 1/350 Fletcher brass 3: New 1/700 Cruise Ship 4: The guy next to Tom's at the Nats!! 5: WTD - Dealey class DE 6: Warship Profile #36 for USS Oregon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: Judges I found this intersesting. I have absolutely no experience in such things but it occured to me that a group of judges that consider themselves to be primarily aircraft modelers would be less likely to choose aircraft as winning models because their experience in building models of aircraft and knowledge of real aircaraft would likely make them more critical of other aircraft models, while on the other hand they might be prone to overlooking minor flaws in accuracy in models of other subjects . ... Just a thought. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: new to me (1/700 USS Montana) >> Can any one tell me about these kits?? 1/700 USS Montana: Kit #SLP-5 mfd by The Imperial Navy, Imperial Hobby Products PO 487, Wynnewood, PA 19096 They call it a "craftsman kit" << I have this kit, and the detail is very good. It is a "craftsman" kit because it is not complete. You need to build your own masts, and provide light AA, searchlights, etc. from Skywave sets or perhaps the Hasegawa Alabama (these are much cheaper). You get the hull, major superstructure parts, and 16"/50 and 5"/54 turrets. Maybe a few other pieces, I forget. What there is is very good. The purists out there will want to add photoetch, rigging, and ton of 20mm AA, crew etc., which will probably add up to a couple of hundred bucks. But I feel that with this kit ($65), an Alabama ($15) a little bit from the scrap box, and a bit a creativity you can have a Montana kit as good as a company like Tamiya might produce. And you know they never will. Good luck ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ronnie Hiatt Subject: Re: PT P/E parts >> How about a set of upgrade parts; resin and brass for Revel PT boats. << "Second!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: A responce to Ken Durling << I'm sorry, I would not respond this way if you didn't announce yourself as a "head judge", and I admit I probably don't really understand the judging process. But Mr. Alcorn's work is in no way "inferior" or "easier" than anything in that or any other model contest. I think it's great that ship models made as strong a showing as they did, it's about time. But gloating does not become you. The Nationals should be an event with more dignity. Ken Durling >> I didn't mean to sound biased toward one scale or the other. I also understand the level of detail possible with the scales in mind. As for my choice as head judge, I spoke from personal expeirience, not bias to any type or scale of model. I must say I'm offended at the remark. Obviously, it was made out of ignorence of the judging process. Plain and simple, both models were as perfect and equal as they could possibly be concerning the basics of modelling as well as advanced techniques. Never the less, a decision had to be made (sorry you didn't like it Ken). I made mine knowing from personal expierience with large and small scales. I stand by it and I dammed sure don't consider it gloating. I don't care what kind of aircraft it was, I'm a dumb ship guy. However, be it ship, plane, armor or figure, I put my personal preferences aside when it come time to vote. What I do care about is I have built both (aircraft and ships) from scratch so I voted from a point of view most judges in the room didn't have. Like Ken says, he has problems with contests. He also has problems throwing about accuazations he can't substanciate. He also admits he knows nothing of the judging process. No kidding! If he knew what he was talking about he would know I (I can't speak for the other catagory head judges) avoid judging any catagories except in the event of an unbreakable tie. A tie occured in one catagory and I was asked to break it. Sorry Ken, that's one of the Head judges jobs. Besides that, the only vote I cast that day was for best of show. So that biased crap is just that, CRAP! Try judging categories where EVERY model is a first place or better model in a regional contest. The difference between 1st and 4th or 5th is so small it's hard to believe. A single brush stroke, a single rough edge, one photo etch part minutely out of line. This is the stuff my judges had to contend with. In short, Ken doesn't have any idea of the judging process. He's not a IPMS judge, and has no idea how judges are trained. That's okay, but DO NOT, DO NOT malign my charachter as a category head judge. I worked a lot of years to be considered for this position and I consider it an honor to serve. I stand by my decision. Perhaps Ken can offset his complaints against biased judges like me by signing up to be a national judge in Orlando next year and show me how easy it really is rather than griping from the sidelines and throwing about accuazations he can't substanciate. Sorry to ramble about this, but I get very upset when someone challenges my character or ability to fairly judge at any level of modeling. Especially when they don't have the least idea about what went on behind the scenes. "Proudly" the IPMS head category judge for ships this year Rusty White ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Designing photo-etched parts >> I am interested in hearing about your custom photo-etch. How does one go about generating a photoetch? How do you create the mask of even and consistent lines, e.g. railings? Lots of patience, or is there a trick? How do you get the thin lines? All of the resist pens I've seen are relatively thick. What are the good sources for resist, chemicals, etc.? Maybe you can do an article for the Warship page. Thanks, << Designing photo-etched parts is no real secret. If you have any drafting abilty at all you can do this. I'll keep it short. Make your master drawing double the actual size it will be. Draw your master on frosted Mylar. This is used by Architects who use resivour pens. The pens come in different widths and allows the line width to be smooth and consistant. You can find resivour pens under the brand names Rapidograph or K&E . The pens and mylar can be found at any archtectural supply house in your area. Once the master is created, have it shot down to the desired scale as a positive. I photo-etched my own parts before I started Flagship Models. Heavier parts can be done at home. However, photo-etching railing and other parts with delicate features should be left to a professional photo-etcher. Using a professional photo-etcher is much better than fooling around with caustic chemicals or photo resist. As long as you give them good artwork, you will get a good product. Your photo-etcher can assist you with minimum line widths and other information concerning your drawing. The set up fees vary. They include all the photo work (so you don't have to do it) and placing the sets on the panel for production. You will then get a test shot. If the sets look good to you you're done, if not, (due to under or over etching) a second sheet must be ordered. Either way, going the professional etcher route is what I would recommend and It will cost you anywhere from $275.00 to $350.00 (which includes the test shot). Now you know why photo-etched parts cost what they do. I do quite a bit of custom work here at Flagship. What I would suggest is that you get together with 5 or 6 buddies to spread the cost of production out to an affordable level. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: USN Grey >> I am about to to start a Perry and Spruance in 1/350 scale and am looking for some paint suggestions that will render scale colors in 1/350 for modern US warships. << Use testors Medium Gray and mix 50/50 with Testors Camouflage Gray. It makes a near perfect match for moden warship (Haze gray?) gray. Rusty White ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Foeth" Subject: Titanic Gold Stripes I put the stripes on my Titanic by carefull masking it. I painted it with yellow, with burned-sienna wash. Works just as good as decals. As an option you could paint it gold, wash Burned Sienna/Umber, gently dry-brush with silver to highlight details (if any). Evert-Jan Foeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Lester Abbey" Subject: 1/350 vs 1/700 It would seem that the "Buzz" has shifted to new relaleses 1/350 scale ships at the expense of new releases of 1/700 ships. I can only assume that Modelers interest is tending towards that scale. I also believe that 1/350 ships can provide a better return on investment for the resin manufacturers. Modeling in 1/350 is fun and certainly not as hard on ones eyes as 1/700. However I'm still faithfull to 1/700 for the following reasons: 1. Cost roughly 1/3 - 1/5 the cost of the same subject in 1/350 2. Size - Display and storage is much less of a problem 3. Range of selection (484 Different WW II subjects alone!) 4. Diorama possibilities 5. Availability of accessories I think that these considerations are not unique to me and that there will always be a demand for new 1/700 subjects. (I haven't built all 484 WW II subjects - yet) I am interested in other modellers views on the subject - but I don't wish to start off a Scale War. All scales are fun to work in. And for all of the wide selection of 1/700 available it puzzles me that no one has released a 1/700 Texas or Arkansas. Regards Lester Abbey Wellington New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Dan Jones PSM Subject: Re: MONTANA kit from Imperial Navy The company is actually called Imperial Hobby Productions these days as Mike Bartel makes railroad models as well as ships. The MONTANA is one of his most recent releases, and is quite good, as far as it goes. The kit consists of resin and metal parts for the hull, all basic superstructure, and the secondary twin 5" guns. The rest (40 mm guns, 20 mm guns, catapults, aircraft, boats, liferafts, etc.) - must be added by the modeler. This is why he calls it a "craftsman kit" because it is so incomplete. The casting quality is as good as the best Japanese manufacturers - far superior to any of the previous Imperial Navy kits. Accuracy seems to be quite good, matching the plans in the Dulin & Garske US Battleships book. The only negative point is the need to add so many items from the "spares" box in order to complete the model. None of the tubs or splinter shielding for the 40 mm quads, or 20 mm singles and twins is cast onto the hull, and so will have to be scratchbuilt. While the basic kit is very good, it will take a lot of added parts and extra work to complete the model. A review of this kit (with essentially the same comments) appeared in PSM 4/4. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler Magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Scale vs. flawlessness Ken made a good point about the relationship between the scale of a model and its relative flawlessness. In general, the axiom is that the larger the scale the harder it is to hide flaws. In large scales, even the smallest detail parts have to be free of flaws to survive the IPMS judging criteria, because they are so easily seen. The converse holds for smaller scales, especially the "hundred scales" of 1/350 and 1/700. In these scales small details need not be flawless, but rather only "clean" because flaws in these small details are not so readily seen. In these scales the eyes are confronted with such density per square inch that discernment of tiny individual errors becomes difficult. Its an optical illusion of sorts to my way of thinking, and its an optical illusion that can work to the benefit of a small scale modeller in the IPMS contest venue. I also think, and this is just my opinion, that judges of small scale subjects are more willing on a subconcious level to "forgive" imperfection in these smaller models. This may be due to an understanding of the difficulty of fabricating tiny scale parts, and the understanding that these parts are more representations than perfect scale parts. I'm talking about items such as AA guns, aircraft, radars, and the like. If you view these things under a microscope, they may not look good at all, but with the naked eye at one or two feet away, they pass muster. The makers of the larger scale models do not benefit from this effect. I looked at the winning model of the USS Texas half a dozen times and it seemed flawless to me. There was one area where I thought the modeller omitted a subtle improvement, which I will not go into here, but that is not a flaw. I did not get a chance to view the DeHaviland up close, so I won't weigh in on "which is superior", a question that cant really be answered. JG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: US Nats Details >> just talking with an attractive woman who knows more about AA guns than I do and who can wax eloquently about the most minute photoetched bits, well, gave me a special tingling feeling... << Those of us who've had the privilege of meeting Caroline and Dave at various shows know exactly what you mean! :) Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Ad Classifications and Subject Lines Hi All, My Job is getting harder - So - Here's the thing. If you want your post to appear in the TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD section of SMML, can you simply ad "TRADERS" or "TDR" or something BOLD in the subject line, or I might mis-understand it and put it in the regular column (Which I have done a bit lately - Sorry guys) And the other thing is a few of us are forgetting to write in those pesky subject lines again! It makes everybody's SMML a little nicer if they are in there (And you don't end up with a completely irrelevant subject line dreamed up by me) Thanks - Have a great weekend! Greg (LIstmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Tom & Carolyn Harrison Subject: 1/350 Fletcher brass To all 1/350 Fletcher fans, I sure the new $30.00 Flagship set 350-8 by Rusty White is going to be a fine set. As he indicated all of his set will be usable, while we as a competitor, force the modeler to toss over 40% of our set into your parts box. I hope this is because we are providing extra parts. However, we at Tom's Modelworks apologize for this inconvenience and will offer a 40% refund off our $16.00 set price (set#3508) to any modeler returning the unused 40%. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: New 1/700 Cruise Ship Naval Base Hobbies announces this new ship kit. The Pacific Princes 1970's this is the liner that was in the TV show "Love Boat". This ship is with the Pacific-Orient Cruise Line still sailing. This kit is from Loose Cannon. 1/700 Resin Kit no photoetch $35.00 plus 5.00 for shipping 9 3/4" long x 1 1/2" wide x 2" high Contact : http://www.navalbasehobbies.com or mailto:shaya@erols.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) To: jdcorley@ix.netcom.com Subject: The guy next to Tom's at the Nats!! James I saw your note inquiring about the guy next to Tom's at the Nats last week. That was Burl Burlingame from Pacific Monogram in Hawaii. Burls email address is buzz@aloha.net and the address is also listed above. Trust this what you were looking for. v/r HBlecha ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Dealey class DE Greetings: I'm looking for a Dealey class DE model (preferably 1/350 or 1/700). Have been asked to build a model of USS LESTER DE1022 for Lester School in Downers Grove, IL, Ship & school named after a Downers Grove resident who rec'd Congressional Medal of Honor (post.) during WWII. Does anybody know of any model of this class of ship? Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Warship Profile #36 for USS Oregon Would any of you be able to help me in my quest? Before I go looking elsewhere, do any of you have Warship Profile #36 for the USS Battleship Oregon that you may be willing to sell? I previously bought WP #25 for the SMS Emden and thought it was a nice concise booklet. I am slowly collecting books, plans and resources prior to building my Glencoe USS Oregon in 1/225. Thanks for any responses, either on the List or directly to me. If you do not have a copy, do you have any leads for me to find one? Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume