Subject: SMML15/07/98VOL241 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:08:55 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: DD - 558 USS Laws 2: Testors/Italeri HMS Hood 3: Re: Modern Navy colors 4: Re: resin ships 5: Scale Preferences 6: Bathurst class minesweepers 7: 1:1250 Metal Ship Miniatures 8: Re: Glencoe Oregon 9: Re: Samek ALASKA/Strombecker B-29 10: Flying Colors, etc. 11: RE: CW 1/700 Tennessee 12: BWN Oakland 13: OREGON 14: USS Texas Viking Kit 15: Glencoe OREGON 16: Glencoe OREGON 17: Oakland in 1/350 18: Fletcher Class Destroyers 19: Re: Viking Texas 20: Re: Alaska, Abdiel, Oakland, 1/720 Hood 21: Resin Kit instructions & decals 22: Ships 1880 - 1914 (SMML-240) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS REGULUS AF-56 / ESCANABA VICTORY 2: A message concerning everyone 3: Lead 1:1200 ID Ships - Restoration ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: DD - 558 USS Laws DD-558 - Laws (Fletcher Class) Laid down by Seattle Tacoma Shipbuilding. May 19 1942. Launched April 22 1943 and commissioned November 18 1943. Decommissioned December 10 1946, Recommissioned November 2 1951. Decommissioned March 30 1964, Stricken April 15 1973. Sold December 3 1973 and broken up for scrap. View This Vessels DANFS Entry The above is from web page www.cityscope.net (Paul Yarnell's great site) There are pictures of several Fletcher Class DDs. The USS Laws' history may be found at: http://www.cityscope.net/~pry/Naval/Register/DD/helpers/dd558txt.htm As far as modeling goes, I suppose any Fletcher kit would work. There is a choice of scales and skill levels from which to choose. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Re: Testors/Italeri Hood >>Can anyone give a review/opinion of: Testors/Italeri HMS Hood in 1/720 scale. << Hi there, I haven't built this kit myself, but there was a review of the various Hood kits then available in Scale Models International, (UK Mag) in 1996. As I recall the Italeri kit was considered to be on a par with the Tamiya kit, and maybe just a touch better. I know the Tamiya kit depicts Hood in May 1941 fit, and I think the Italeri kit depicts her in mid 1930's fit with all 5" secondary weapons still in place. I'm sure the other members of the list can fill in the gaps in my memory as regards the kit. BTW White ensign now have their PE brass set for the kit, this is based on the art work for the their 350th kit, and look wonderful. Eduard also do a 700th scale set for hob, but it really isn't a patch on the WE set. Other Thoughts, Resin instructions, Please add some rigging diagrams, life would be a lot easier, and yes the inclusion of decals where appropriate would also be nice. Modern US Grey, I'm using humbrol 128, (not 126 as I said earlier), and it looks to be a pretty good match. Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Modern Navy colors >> To anybody who would know: I'm building a modern 1/350th US Navy destroyer (DLM's Spruance). Does anybody know what color combination Model Master Paints would work? Better yet, does anybody know if there is an accurate paint made by anyone? Does anyone know what color Tamiya uses for their Enterprise model? PLEASE HELP~!!!! << I have built 1/350 scale models for years and used Testors paints to good effect all that time. I have built three Ticonderogas and two Spruances. You need two colors for the gray (Haze Gray?), Testors Medium Gray and Camouflage Gray. Mix 2 parts Medium Gray to 1 part Camoflage Gray. It makes a real close match. Substitute Camouflage Gray right from the bottle for white. This is a perfect "scale" color. For non-skid surfaces (deck) use Testors Gunship Gray. It's too dark from the bottle. Lighten it to scale using Camouflage Gray. Also lighten black surfaces with Camo. Gray as well. The helopad is darker than the non-skid surfaces. Add a little black, a few drops of Insignia Blue and a few drops of green. Yeah, green. This give the helopad and asphalt appearance. Once all the deck markings are on, lightly dust over them with the color they are applied on. This will give the stark white a weathered "scale" appearence. Rusty White ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: resin ships >> My only criticism would be that like 700th waterline injection-molded plastic battleships, the cage structures supporting platforms are cast as a solid piece << I mentioned the same thing to the guys at Viking and they showed me photos of the same areas. Specificly, the Main Mast. It indeed was solid raised relief bracing. Rusty White ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Scale Preferences Hello all, I guess I better add my opinion to this thread. While I let the subject rather than scale dictate which model I will build, the only constraint I place is that I will not model in 1/700 or smaller. It is simply too small of a scale for my klutzy hands to handle. The quaility and quantity of ships in this scale is staggering and those gifted enough to do justice to this kits deserve tons of respect and admiration (they do so from me!). But this scale is not for me. The smallest I will attempt is 1/600 (so I have a few Airfix and Revell kits in my closet) as well as others ranging from 1/96 to 1/450 scale. If I like the subject and the kit is pretty good (my standards may be lower than some SMMLers) than I will attempt it and add PE and scratchbuilt corrections. I would really like to see more injection molded subjects in larger scales for both liners and pre-dreadnought and WWI subjects. The Revell Germany Emden/Dresden were welcome new subjects and I hope that they will have the courage to release some Jutland era High Seas Fleet ships. Thanks, Felix Bustelo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins Subject: Bathurst class minesweepers >> Bathhurst Mineseepers Does any one have colour info. I'm advised that the basic shades are as RN WW2, but some photos suggest a darker range. Any ideas? Mike Cooper Reading, UK << Hi Mike, In regards to your query: there is an excert from a book called "Fleet minesweepers at war" (aviaible from Maritime Books, Lodge Hill, liskerd, Cornwall PL14 4el UK) in a new publication here in Australia called Australian Warship Review. This article deals with just the bare history of the ships unfortunatly, with no colour info. But hopefully the above details will help you look in the right direction. Also look up Whyalla, South Australia on the net & you may find a nice surprise, HMAS Whyalla is preserved ashore there & there could be a bit more info there. HTH Shane Jenkins ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Joćo Andrade Guerra" Subject: 1:1250 Metal Ship Miniatures Hello. I have been reading SMML for some time now and it is the best Mail List (as far as model ships are concerned) I know about. This is my first post and it is not about plastic or resin models but I hope someone can help. Where (from whom) can I buy 1:1250 Metal Ship Miniatures from Mercator, Albatros, etc? I live in Portugal so a place in the EEC would be preferable but not mandatory. Thanks in advance, Joao Andrade Guerra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Glencoe Oregon Maybe Glencoe is just rotating the Oregon kit out of production again. I bought the SS Savannah (nuclear Cruise/cargo ship) last year. I'm not aware if Glencoe had ever released it before. Also picked up the SS United States and the SS France. Hey, they are not the best kits in the world, but I am voting with my money by purchasing most injection molded ship kits as they come out. I bought an OREGON a few years ago after it had been re-released. I was disappointed when I dry fit the hull halves together and there was a 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch gap that would take a lot of pressure (and strong glue) to close. Last year I picked up an older copy of the kit because I decided I wanted to do the OREGON as well as the MASSACHUSETTS. Well, this older version's hull halves practically held themselves together. I guess that the newer copy's pieces were probably warped coming out of the molds. I'm going to try the hot water technique that I read about here in SMML to decrease that canyon to a manageable crack. Model Expo has the Glencoe Corsair listed in their catalog. Is it actually out yet? Anyone have it? Opinions? Thanks. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U.S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum, Quincy Massachusetts http://www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Samek ALASKA/Strombecker B-29 Yes, Pacific Front Hobbies indeed has the Samek ALASKA. Bill had several at the IMPS Nationals, and I took one home with me. Yes, I remember the Strombecker B-29, as well as their P-38, P-47, etc. My older cousin built them, and that was how the modeling bug initially bit me. The only one I ever built was the P-80, years later. Sorry, now returning to maritime matters.... John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Steven Rogers Subject: Flying Colors, etc. Christian D'Ambra was inquiring about modern colors for his Spruance. Have you considered using Floquil's Marine Colors? I'm quite pleased with the results. No mixing unless you wish to add white for scale effect. On the subject of decal sheets, I'm not sure each kit maker would want to do a custom sheet for each kit. However, someone such as Gold Medal Models might market a generic WWII sheet for float planes, battle ensigns, and hopefully signal flags. Ships' names could be done by navy and time period. All in 1/350 and 1/700 on the same sheets. My guess is there is a good market, I'm in line to be a customer already. Dry transfers are also a possibility. Moving on, I have a copy of the Viking 1/350 Texas and the main hull is hollow cast. This saves weight but at the expense of strength. Due to shrinkage the hull contour has a slight concave profile across the keel. Short of cutting at the waterline, adding stiffeners to force the correct cross section, filling the cavity with resin and reassembling, any good solutions out there? Go figure...full hull and I still have to do extra work. Thanks, Steve Rogers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Lam, Chung W" Subject: Re: CW 1/700 Tennessee >>I was wondering if anyone could give me some information about the quality/accuracy of the following kits: Classic Warships 1/700 Tennessee (1944) B-Resina 1/700 Repulse Samek 1/700 Alaska << The CW 1/700 Tennessess was one of the kits I brought at IPMS Nationals. I can give you my review of the contents: Resin parts: Hull, bridge, various gun tubs. Very clean casting. I can't comment on the accuracy of the parts. They look good to me. Metal parts: 14" guns, 5" guns, 40mm guns, seaplane, rafts, etc. The 5" guns, 40mm guns and platforms are identical to the skywave parts. Most of these metal parts look like copies of the skywave parts. Photoetch: It includes a generic set containing only the main radar, catapult, and crane. What's missing: No 20mm guns are provided. The instruction recommend that you buy the GMM 20mm gun set. Photoetch don't include railings nor the grid for the MK37 directors. Like most resin kits, CW don't include decals with this kit. Instruction: Awful. It includes what I believe is the offical ship drawing which is unreadable, and a couple of drawings showing how the parts fit together. Not very useful. Overall: An OK kit if you want the Tennessee. Chung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RLapadura@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML14/8/98Vol240 I too am building the BWN Oakland, and may I say that it's a great kit. The only reference I have for rigging is a set of plans from Floating Drydock. They are especially useful for the placement of some of the equipment not covered in the directions. The rigging plan isn't all that clear on the plans, but it's the best info I've seen so far. Hope this helps, Bob LaPadura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: OREGON >> My question is simple. Why did Glencoe stop making the Oregon? Of all the plastic ship models on our shelves, it seems to be the best seller. Sure I've heard the horror stories about it being impossible to build, etc, but there must be _something_ about this kit that makes people buy it. << It is a bad kit but it can be built. It is a very good starting point for any of the three sisters, but again, it does require WORK to make a good model from it. Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: BChaucer@ix.netcom.com Subject: USS Texas Viking Kit >>Hello! In reply to Bradford Chaucer, I examined an example of the Viking USS Texas (in the box) just yesterday. The cast resin pieces appear to be of very good quality and consititute the hull, superstructure and turrets. << Was it a full hull or waterline kit? >> My only criticism would be that like 700th waterline injection-molded plastic battleships, the cage structures supporting platforms are cast as a solid piece. There are sticks of plastic and brass rod provided fo << Are you saying that the cagemasts are cast in resin? Are they Solid or open like a PE set would be?? >> scratchbuilding all masts, booms and hull drains. The instructions appear to be of above average quality (for a resin ship kit). This leaves just << What are hull drains?? Thank you for your comments. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BChaucer@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Glencoe Oregon >> I don't know why Glencoe quit producing this kit. I have two of them. I'm about halway through the first one. I'm building it on commission, so I know I'll finish it, but I will say that it is the worst kit that I have ever finished. Nothing fits. Everything needs major clean up work just to be useable.I'll try and post some pictures when I get the beast finished. << Do you have any info on the mods needed to make the kit more accurate?? I understand that the Boat Deck/crew berthing area on the model is completely wrong. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Glencoe OREGON >> I don't know why Glencoe quit producing this kit. I have two of them. I'm about halway through the first one. I'm building it on commission, so I know I'll finish it, but I will say that it is the worst kit that I have ever finished. Nothing fits. Everything needs major clean up work just to be useable.I'll try and post some pictures when I get the beast finished. << It's biggest problem is that it has a deck where there should be none. It has a deck across the tops of the hammock berthings that should be removed and that is the hardest part of making it more accurate. Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Oakland in 1/350 Oakland spent WWII painted in Measure 21 (5-N Overall with 20-B Deck Blue on horizontal surfaces). For rigging and additional details, Floating Drydock has a good set of plans for Oakland. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Fletcher Class Destroyers John C. Reilly's U.S. Destroyers in WWII mentions 9 Fletchers having other than the standard 5 twin 40's in December 1944. Can anyone identify the 9 by the number of twin 40's? Two had twin mounts on the fantail with a twin on the aft deckhouse, one had a twin on the fantail, a twin on the aft deckhouse and twins on either side of #2 funnel. Five had twin mounts on the aft deckhouse and twins on either side of #2 funnel. One had five twin 40's but only five 20mm mounts. These would be some interesting variations on the Tamiya kit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "David P. Judy III" Subject: Re: Viking Texas Brad, I have both kits, and the improved kit is far superior to the 1st issue. The resin castings are almost blemish free, there are some "dimples' in the hull, but easily fixed! It is a hollow full hull with a casting seam along the waterline, but no problem. The metal parts are "passable" though I would scratchbuild the mainmast assembly, as it was cast in thick metal( I talked to Dan Joplin at Viking and he said he was considering a different approach.) On this issue, the gun barrels were out of round , and the 40mm's were cast as a one piece unit( mount/barrels/base)..an improvment over the first issue. These guys are improving all the time. If you don't mind a little scratchbuilding it's not a bad kit for the money(resin kit prices considered) Dave Judy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Alaska, Abdiel, Oakland, 1/720 Hood Yes, the Samek Alaska does exist. Bill Gruner has had some; if he's sold out, I'm sure he has more on order. Price is $80.00. I wish I knew the color of the Abdiel's deck. It would help if I knew what type of pattern she carried; it is some kind of disruptive pattern, but I don't know which one. I would guess a dark grey would be correct for the deck, not the light grey of the plan in the Profile, which was probably done that way so as not to obscure any detail. As for the colors of her pattern, my guess would be a dark grey (MS2 or 507A), a medium grey-green (MS3), a light grey or greenish-grey (MS4A), and white. I would hope that Alan Raven's upcoming book on Royal Navy warship camouflage would answer questions like this. I think that USS Oakland (CL-95) was always painted in Ms. 21 (Navy Blue with Deck Blue). There is a photo in Robert Sumrall's 1973 article on U.S. Navy camouflage of WWII that purports to show her in a Ms. 16 (Thayer Blue) pattern, but the caption refers to CL-96, which is Reno, and I think it's the Reno depicted rather than the Oakland. I assume the Floating Drydock has good plans of the Oakland. I have done a lot of work on the 1/720 Italaeri Hood, and think it's a good kit. I'd be more sure of that if I'd actually finished it, since I may still run into some problems! It depicts the Hood in the early 30's but not necessarily at any one time in the 30's. Hope this helps. Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Rand100@aol.com Subject: Resin Kit instructions & decals I second Duane Fowlers comments about the sad lack of instructions included with some resin kits. I have purchased kits from three manufactures now (I'm new to this). White Ensign Models has the best instructions with Classic Warships a close second. Iron Shipwright is another matter. I received the 1/350 Olympia and Maine and was very disappointed with the instructions. The Olympia consists of 1 page which does't even show all the parts let along where they go. The Maine is about the same. I can't afford to buy books on these ships so I'm going to have to find the time to go to the library and see what I can find. I don't know about any of the other manufactures but I'm no longer going to buy a kit without seeing a copy of the instructions. Rand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Ed Grune Subject: Ships 1880 - 1914 (SMML-240) Lone Star Models (www.lonestarmodels.com) makes a kit of the Spanish American War era Torpedo Boat USS Winslow in 1/192 scale. The Winslow was commissioned in January 1898, just before the start of the Spanish American War. She participated in the reconissance and mine sweeping raid on Cardenas harbor Cuba. During that operation she came under fire from elements of the Spanish fleet and from harbor defenses. The steering gear and one engine were destroyed. Three crew members received the Congressional Medal of Honor for their efforts in saving her. The Winslow also holds the distinction of having the only officer killed in the line of duty in the War. He too would have won the Medal of Honor if it were available to officers at this time. The kit's two-piece hull is cast in resin, allowing your choice of whole hull or waterline display. There are also 21 white metal castings. The upper hull has the conning station and the aft control station are molded in place. The vision ports are depressions which need to be cleaned up. The torpedo tube pintles, 1-inch gun platforms, companionway hatches and coaling scuttle hatches are also cast in the upper hull. My lower hull was a little warped, but some hot water and pressure while the superglue set up fixed that problem. There were also some pin-holes, but Evercoat epoxy auto body filler filled them nicely. The funnels were cast in white metal. Their tops were just shallow depressions, so I made a RTV master and poured new ones from resin. These I drilled out deeper. I added an X of fine brass wire for the cross-bracing and piano-wire steam vent and whistle piping. I stepped off the positions for the railing stanchions using a compass, then drilled holes for piano-wire. The railings are invisible sewing thread. While I had the drill out I drilled locating holes for the white metal intake cowls. I added details to the torpedo tubes (3), 1-inch guns (3), the coal scuttles, and spare torpedo stowage racks using some home-etched brass hoo-hahs. I etch my own shapes using Radio Shack's electonic pad rub on shapes and Ferric Chloride. I cut brass rectangles for the companion-way hatches. The mast is a flat wooden toothpick - not included with the kit. The mast fore & back stays are invisible thread. You also need to provide the boat davits and anchor crane from wire. The national ensign and jack are from 1/144 scale flag decals (48 stars). I couldn't find a source of 45 star flags in 1/192 scale. In this scale you can't tell the difference. I applied the decals to pieces of fine brass shim stock which had been soldered to wire. After several coats of clear-coat I bent the flags over some pins to get a ripple effect. The instruction sheet is one page showing two views. There is a cast metal parts break-down and a painting schedule. I was fortunate to find some pictures of the Winslow and her sisters at the US Naval Historical Center web site (http://www.history.navy.mil). They have a site dedicated to the centennial of the Spanish-American War. The pictures confirmed the dark grey coloring. I painted my Winslow Testors Panzer Dark Grey over British Scarlet. The cowl throats are a deep red. As far as other ships I'd like to see from this period: Early Battleships - Maine (both old and new) Texas (unnumbered) Indiana (BB1) Kearsarge (BB5) ABC Cruisers Atlanta/Boston/Chicago Armored Cruisers Maryland (later Frederick) Colorado (later Pueblo) Monitors & Rams Puritan Monterey Terror Kathadin. Regards; Ed Grune ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: USS REGULUS AF-56 / ESCANABA VICTORY We are having a ships reunion for the REGULUS in Oct. She was built as ESCANABA VICTORY in 1944 converted to the REGULUS in 52-54 got her helo deck 63-64 foundered 8/71. We are trying to get copies of her command histories and photos of her as a Victory, during her conversion, refit and of course her end. We have some info already Dave Shirlaw tells me that the Todd records are closed, I've e-mailed Nat. Archives and they promise a response. Any other ideas? Thanks Sam Pullig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: A message concerning everyone Hi folks - I am passing this on from the Airline Modeler's Digest, when you read it you will see why. Some of you i'm sure knew Hugh Silvis, who passed away last month. I considered him a valuable friend, as did Clint Groves, who wrote the following: >> On the horrible side of the news, Hugh Silvis's wife's sister called me last week. I will never understand this but it happens in MOST families when a modeler dies. Hundreds, and I do mean hundreds, of IPMS quality completed models were THROWN into a dumpster. Someone told the family that the books and magazines were where the money was, not in the modelers. I told her that Hugh would die all over again if he knew about this. People, PLEASE talk with your families and tell them what to do with your collection. We must work togather to prvent this sort of thing. Hugh put hundreds of hours into each model me built, even drilling out the lightening holes in the wheels. It is so, so tragic. Ken Durling, if you could put this part onto the other modeling digests you read I'd appreciate it, just the part about Hugh. Thanks. Clint Groves-Airliners America/ATP << ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Ref: Lead 1:1200 ID Ships - Restoration To: John Frohock Contact me at john vcp@aol.com regarding restoration of the 1:1200 scale Comet ship model. John Heasel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume