Subject: SMML28/07/98VOL254 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:31:04 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Pictures 2: Flower class Corvettes...Comments and info sought! 3: Re: Texas Details 4: Views of RN Ships as in World War Two 5: U-511 6: Re: SMML27/7/98Vol253 7: The best laid plans... 8: 40' CMB 9: Re:Flower Class Corvettes 10: Royal Navy Deck Colours 11: Re: HMCS Sackville 12: 1/350th Tugs? 13: 40ft CMB WWI Torpedo Boat 14: Soviet Torpedo Boat 15: Hypothetical and Not So Hypothetical Ships 16: Re: Fisher sub kits 17: Thoughs on wave line angles from Evart-Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model magazine list FINISHED at long last 2: Books For Sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Pictures I popped into my local picture/framing shop this weekend, to see what was new in the world of prints. The owner, something of a friend seeing how much money he's taken from me in the past, stuck a brochure into my hand, Oh boy, I wish he hadn't. It showed a new print from the well know British Artist, David Shepard, (you know Elephants, Steam engines etc), well his latest print is of HMS Queen Elizabeth, circa 1929/30, she's working through a fair sea, under dark looming clouds, in the back group are Warspite, and Royal Sovereign. Its done in a fairly impressionistic manner but the ship appears accurate, and the feel of the sea and sky is simply superb. The cost of the 13"x24" print is approx. £120-£170 depending on finish etc, but it is a beautiful picture. Oh and if the other half complains about the cost just remind her that prints by David Shepard are sought after, and do increase in value, (so I'm told!) If anyone's interested, drop me an e-mail and I'll fill you in on the details I know Colin Ritchie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Flower class Corvettes...Comments and info sought! If my memory serves the differences between British built and Canadian built corvettes were limited to weapons fit, position of carley floats and minor superstructures. The Canadian ships followed the basic patterns used by the British. The Matchbox kit gives 3 options H.M.S. BLUEBELL, H.M.C.S. SNOWBERRY and U.S.S. SAUCY (incidently the re-released Revell A.G./Matchbox kit is being sold under the latter name) and has the differences as optional parts. The main variations in Corvettes were 2 different length Forecastles, the early design being short and the later majority of ship having long Forecastles. There were also differences in the position of the mast some being behind the bridge and some in front. The bridge itself came in several flavours some being open and some enclosed. These differences depended on the yards they were built in but applied to Canadian ships as well as British. For an accurate representation you have to decided on which ship you want to model and apply the appropriate changes to whatever model you use. For my own part I am seeking information on 7 British Corvettes, having failed miserably with my available sources. I am looking for 3 facts on each ship and would appreciate any help that the list could give. I'd also be glad on suggestions about written references that I could try. The info I need is:- 1) The ship's Pennant number. 2) If she was a long or short Forecastle 3) If she had a closed or open Bridge The ships in question are:- CONVOLVULUS GARDENIA MARIGOLD PENSTEMON RHODODENDRON SAMPHIRE VETCH The sharp ones out there will see that these are ships of Capt F.J.Walkers 36th Escort Grp. Any help will be greatly appreciated and returned with interest if its within my power. Les Pickstock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Texas Details >> No offense meant; I didn't realize that the fret was the same as the one included in the kit. I thought that you were releasing an enhancement. That said, why didn't you do the blankety blank cagemast in brass? :-) << None taken. As for the brass cage mast, I couldn't cram another part into the set. The model depicts the Texas after the cage masts were used. So prority was given to that era of parts. They are talking of making an earlier version as well as a New York. If the earlier version comes through I'll add the cage masts. Until then I believe Tom's Modelworks and Classic Warships have 1/350 scale cage masts. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Views of RN Ships as in World War Two On 26 Jul 98, Vimieraa@aol.com asked to locate views of various RN vessels. A quick look revealed the following - note that most of the publications are fairly old, and may well be out of print - try a good public library: FEARLESS 41 - "Sunk and Damaged" - Poor photo from stbd, ship burning after fatal hit - apparently camouflaged FORESIGHT 41 - "Russian Convoys" - Good (undated) photo from stbd, dark grey hull, light grey upperworks, white half-leaders band on forefunnel, 2 red(?) bands on after funnel GALLANT 41 - "The Royal Navy Day by Day" (second edition) (NMM Neg N31664) - Good photo from stbd of the ship in Malta 28 Apr 41 (minus bows) - dark grey hull, light grey upperworks, 2 red (?) bands on after funnel HEREWARD 42 - "Warship World" Summer 91 (NMM Neg N31759) - Poor photo from stbd of after part of ship (in background of photo) 2 May 41, camouflaged MAORI 41 - "Battles of the Malta Striking Forces" - Photo from stbd of the ship entering Malta 13 Dec 41, dark grey hull, light grey upperworks, 1 white over 2 red (?) bands on after funnel - photos of her sunk at her mooring bouy appear to be in the same scheme NUBIAN 42 - seem to recollect a shot of her in "The Tribals" from stbd quarter in camouflage, after her refit SOMALI 42 - "Convoys to Russia" - Poor photo from port beam after fatal damage, in Arctic/Peter Scott camouflage similar to that worn by BEDOUIN, ESKIMO and others of the class. Also very poor photo from stbd quarter in "Warship World" Winter 93 LIGHTNING 42 - "The Fighting Flotilla" has an undated photo from the port beam captioned "Lightning with dazzle scheme for Atlantic" showing the ship with one of the simpler "wavy designs in what appears to be 3 colours without funnel bands and a very indistinct starboard side view in some sort of disruptive camouflage with one white over 2 red (?) or black bands in Aug 42. There is also a starboard side view captioned "HMS Lightning early in 1942" showing her in overall dark grey with the same bands LIVELY 42 - "The Fighting Flotilla" has a shot of her in Valetta in late 41 in dark grey hull, light grey upperworks, with (possibly) some funnel bands. A very indistinct view of the ship under attack on 11 May 42 MAY be in the same scheme I've not listed details of the weapon fits, modification states - in some cases the photos are not good enough to tell! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: MJBCMB@aol.com Subject: U-511 The U-511 was a monsoon boat traded to the Japanese for rubber. Check the site at http://www.uboat.net.com for more on this boat and potential pictures then go to http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/kaigun.htm for the Japanese angle. Marc and Christopher Biagini ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML27/7/98Vol253 He Jeff...the screaming kids part is only just on the way...just wait...as for the screaming wife part....oops, gotta run...to be comtinued ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Steven Rogers Subject: The best laid plans... Just as the Royal Navy had everything under control, reality happened, it was May 31, 1916. Hipper and Scheer had other ideas, gunnery for one. Which brings me to the point of this little foray; plans. I am looking for a source for plans of the HMS Tiger and SM Defflinger at the battle of Jutland. Any 'Heavies' from the Iron Duke, Queen Elizabeth, Kaiser or Konig classes would also be welcomed. Alas, Floating Drydock does not stock any WW1 RN. I did see plans for HMS Lion in Rocky Mountain Shipyard's catalog. Go figure, the 'Tiger' is very dissimiliar from her "half" sisters. I'm sunk. Thanks, Steven Rogers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: 40' CMB >> but they are announcing a 40 ft CMB WWI Torpedo Boat, can someone help on what this is ? << The 40' CMB (coastal motor boat) was a Thornycroft design, which was superceded later by 55' and 70' versions. These were slender MTBs which carried their torpedoes in troughs aft and launched them stern-first. They were "turtle-backed" and had a small cockpit about 1/3 of the way back from the bow. Photos of the larger boats can be found in Lenton & College's "Warships of WWII", A.J.D. North's "RN Coastal Forces" and several other works. Al Ross II ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re:Flower Class Corvettes There seems to be a lot of confusion. The Flower Class was a British design developed by Smith's Dock Limited of Middlesbrough. While many ships of the class were built in Canada there was no such thing as a Canadian design for the Flower class. The design evolved considerably during the war as the role for these little ships itself also evolved. The Matchbox kit (not Airfix ) is basicly very good and could form the basis of a model of any of the class except for the later ships with increased sheer and flair. If one were modelling the early short focsle ships ( as Sackville herself was originally built ) quite a lot of modification to the kit would be required but well within the capability of the average modeller. There are a number of references of which the following are recommended: The Flower Class Corvette Agassiz (Anatomy of the Ship) by McKay and Harland, published by Conway Maritime Press Corvettes of the Royal Canadian Navy by Macpherson and Milner, published by Vanwell Publishing The ships of Canada's Naval Forces by Macpherson and Burgess, published by Vanwell Publishing Corvettes Canada by Johnston, published by McGraw-Hill Ryerson Canada's Flowers by Lynch, published by Nimbus Flower Class Corvettes by Preston and Raven, published as Ensign 3 The Battle of the Atlantic by Bailey, published by the Royal Naval Museum Plus, of course, The Cruel Sea and Three Corvettes, both by Nicholas Montserrat are excellent background reading. Hope this helps someone! Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Royal Navy Deck Colours Someone asked about R.N. deck colours since W.W.2. As best I can recall: 1. From the late 40s/early 50s the standard deck colour was dark green. 2. Sometimes (and I rather think it depended on the whim of the First Lieutenant or the Buffer or maybe just whatever paint happened to be available) the focsle forrard of the breakwater was painted with red lead. 3. Flight decks of carriers were dark grey. This also applied to the flight decks of frigates when they started to have them (e.g. Leanders) though other decks continued to be green. 4. At sometime shortly before the Falklands war, i.e. 1980 or 1981, deck colour changed to the present grey Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: HMCS Sackville >> It depends on how accurate you wish to be. As you know, Sackville snip differences are the following: Anatomy of the Ship Agassi (sp?) from Naval Institute Press for the RN corvettes (which the Airfix/Matchbox kit reflects) << The book you're reffering to is the Anatomy Of The Ship series : The Flower Class Corvette Agassiz by John Mckay & John Harland, published by Conway Maritime Press Ltd in 1993 (ISBN 0-85177-614-0). It focusses on the HMCS Agassiz in its pre-1943 refit i.e. with the two masts and the short forecastle. As such she is a typical example of the Canadian corvettes and not of the RN corvettes. Also noteworthy is the fact that she had a square stern instead of a round one, for the minesweeping gear. There are some foto's of Sackville in the book though. Sadly enough the book (as many of this fine serie) is now out of print.) The kit has by my knowledge never been produced by Airfix, but by Matchbox (in 1/72), later the matchbox-line was taken over by Revell, and the kit was thus also sold under the name Revell. But it is the same mold: The sprues still carry the name Matchbox all over them! The kit is now out of production, but you might be able to find it somewhere. I am building the corvette (Revell-livery) now, but haven't decided yet which one to build, I have ordered some resin detailling kits by Sirmar at Midway Models, but have still to receive them. >> Canada's Flowers and Corvettes of the RCN for the Canadian designed Flowers The Airfix kit also says that it can be used to make the reverse Lend Lease units to the USN, but these were not RN ships but rather RCN ships, and thus were of the Canadian design. << In the Revell-boxed kit, they give options for two ships : The USS Saucy (PG-65) and the HMCS Snowberry (K166), but there are also decals for the HMS Bluebell (K80), and extra parts for probably this ship (Different radar-housing amongst others). If memory serves me right, the Matchbox-branded kit was sold under the name HMS Bluebell. The Revell kit is definetively boxed under the name USS Saucy Hope to have been of help Erwin Van Deynze ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: 1/350th Tugs? Hi there , My New Jersey, (Post 82 fit), is approaching completion, and the textures acrylic sheet I've placed her on has a confused non regular pattern, idea for harbour's , so I've built small pierside sections, and I'll populate them. However I've been looking at the ship, and wondering if there are any tug's or other associated harbour vessels available in 350th. I know Jim shirley produced some 700th scale tugs, but has anyone got any ideas for 350th Thanks Colin Ritchie Aberdeen (its foggy and still raining!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Alberto Rada Subject: 40ft CMB WWI Torpedo Boat Found it ! ! ! well described at Jane's Fighting Ships WW1, should have looked here first ( DUMB ME ) Quote: Coastal Motor Boats Original Boats 3-12 Dimensions 40*8 ½ * 3 feet 350h.p. Thornycroft motor over 30 kts. 1 torpedo carried in central trough over stern. Harwich Light Cruisers used to each take a pair of these boats to sea, slung from davits, while, in the Mediterrnean, light cruiser Diamond served as a special CMB Carrier End quote I have no information on scale or cost, but will keep you posted SALUDOS Alberto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Soviet Torpedo Boat I recall there was mention of a WW2 Soviet PT Boat here a couple of months ago. I may have just picked up the same kit, a Tupolev G-5 in 1/72nd scale by Interavia (which I must assume is a Russian manufacturer). Will prepare a review for Dan Jones' PSM. Any leads on books and other reference material on this type boat would be greatly appreciated. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Hypothetical and Not So Hypothetical Ships Looks like someone mentioned that darned Y*****o in SMML again. Since we are bringing up old stuff again, let's talk about ships that might have been. Has anyone considered how the Vittorio Veneto and Littorio would have appeared had they been sent to the Pacific as fast carrier escorts? I believe that serious talk was considered concerning their use against Japan. The following points would have been in their favor for use in the Pacific: (1) They were fast. Only the Iowas were faster ships. No other ships could have kept up with the fleet carriers. (2) Their length would have made them ideal antiaircraft platforms Adding on large numbers of 20 and 40mm guns would have been no problem (3) Those 15" and 6" guns would have been useful for shore bombardment and dealing with the occasional Japanese surface ship's threat. Before anyone starts telling me about disadvantages, I have quite a few points against the use of these ships: (1) Lack of range. Let's face it, these ships were designed for Mediterranean conditions and their max. range was 4000nm. Not so good for the long distances in the Pacific. The RN had the same problem when the KGV class was sent into the Pacific with their constant need for refueling. (2) Non-standard armament and the problems of resupply. (3) With new ships coming into commision, there was no need for potential white elephants. (4) Lousy fire control systems and radar. The 15" gun used by the Italian Navy had a tendency to scatter shots because of the poor quality of the fire control and a lack of good radar hampered the fighting quality of the ships. Same thing goes for the AA gun directors, which contributed to the loss of the Roma in 1943. (5) The Pugliese underwater protection system, which failed quite often. A Kamikaze flying low could cause major damage (not unlike the Fritz X which sank the Roma). (5) Political considerations. The US and Great Britain wanted to keep the ships themselves and the Soviets were anxious for their share of surviving Italian ships. Italy could have gained major concessions had the Venetos been used in the Pacific and claimed a status of ally, not a co-belligerant. Also, Italy had no grudge against Japan. With the points and counterpoints finished, here are my possible modifications to the Regia Marina kit: (1) A simple modification similar to that done on the Richelieu. Keep all the Italian main, secondary and heavy AA weapons. Remove the Italian light AA and add quad 40mm Bofors and 20mm Oerlikons. Remove the catapult from the quarterdeck and use the space for AA guns. Add US surface search radar. (2) Radical modification. The only Italian weapons to be kept are the main guns. Remove the 6" secondary guns, the 90 mm AA guns (they weren't so effective anyways) and the light AA. Add 24 5" 38s in twin turrets. 4 turrets are to go into the positions vacated by the 6" guns. The other eight turrets are to be placed in lieu of the 90mm guns (4 starboard and 4 port). Add 40 mm and 20 mm guns in available spaces. Add 4 Mark 37 directors for the 5" guns. Add radar. Maybe somebody would like to try this, but then again, there are many ships available in resin and plastic which saw service with other navies which are more interesting than any hypothetical ship. Here is a partial list (I hope I'm not too long-winded!): HMS Aurora (saw service post-war as Nationalist Chinese Chungking. Defected to the Communists in 1949) modify WEM's Penelope. IJN Yukikaze (escorted the Y-ship on her final voyage. Served as the Nationalist Chinese Tan Yang and was not scrapped until 1971) Skywave kit. Giulio Cesare (awarded to the Soviet Union as reparations. Served as the Novorossiysk and sank in mysterious circumstances in 1955) Wave-Line kit. Eugenio di Savoia and Emmanule Filiberto duca d' Aosta (an irony that both Axis ships named for the Prince of Savoy survived the war. DKM Prinz Eugen and RN Eugenio di Savoia. Savoia served as the Greek Helli and Duca d' Aosta as the Soviet Kerch) Delphis kit. Capitani Romani class light cruisers (Attilio Regolo and Scipione Africano served in the French Navy post war. Pompeo Magno and Giulio Germanico served in the Italian navy post war under different names) Regia Marina kit. Anybody out there who can think of more ships like the ones I mentioned above? Yunchi Hsaio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Fisher sub kits >> In response to Tom Doughery's comments regarding Paul Fisher's submarine kits, I thought Fisher had dropped the sub kits. His web address is http://www.fishermodels.com, and shows only 24th scale resin sports racing car models. For what it's worth. << Mike, That is correct. He stopped producing these kits a while back. I had heard from sources within the SubCommittee that he was planning to resume sub production, and introduce a resin Nautilus (SSN 571). He apparently does extremely well with his resin car line, and that pays the bills. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: Thoughs on wave line angles from Evart-Jon >> Help needed please If any kind soul was able to get further to the 4th line of the 3rd paragraph please explain Froude Just joking , I knew I was going to learn things on this list, but Wow ! ! ! Thanks a lot Evert-Jan, it was really very enlightening, although I'll have to read it some more times (This was to have been originally posted yesterday...trouble with something or other) Evart-Jon I thought that little essay on bow wave angles and the resulting hydrophysical discussions was quite interesting. I have my own water modeling techniques for waterline ships and the 39.5 degree angle probably was not known to many of us (if any of us)!! Just one more item to add to the judging criteria at the next IPMS meet for ship dioramas....eh Rusty?? Imagine.... two absolutely perfect dioramas of ships cruising on the sea and the one winning on being 39.5 degrees EXACTLY and the other finishing in second place because it was only 39.43759 degrees!! OH MY GOD!!! (this is not to be taken seriously folks!!!) Eric Roth, Minden, Ontario CANADA p.s. Hello to Mark Kwasnycia in Ottawa....still haven't found my ITC Graf Spee....someday....someday... Have you finished you WEM HOOD yet? If your ever over this way.... be sure to dop in!! p.s.s: Alberto...you can come out of your corner any time..:-))))) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:26:40 -0700 Subject: Model magazine list FINISHED at long last Hi all, Well I just finished the modelling magazine listings after an allniter typing in the last entries. Unfortunatly due to a computer crash a few weeks ago I lost the names of those who originally wanted the list when I originally posted a few months ago. So to make things easy for me, everyone who would like a copy(apart from those guys who have put in a request in the last week) please email me & I'll send out a copy. Now for the fine print: this list is for public domain use only. As I will be updating the list on a regular basis(I hope), I would appreciate any feedback & input to the list. The list is 45 pages long & was typed up on Amipro 3.0. Now for some observations about the list. There is more ship related articles out there than I originally thought!! But most of the info dates from the 60's through to the late 80's with some very interesting article on a variety of topics. Not much on resin ships outside of PSM, which has covered a hellva a lot of ground in it's short existance (Thanks Dan). The list was mainly done from my magazine collection with the help of a freind's collection of various mags. Shane mailto:sljenkins@tac.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: LRobin9900@aol.com Subject: FOR SALE I have these for sale. Skip R. NAVAL BOOKS 1. BATTLESHIPS United States battleships in WWII 1976 R. Dulling Drawings by R Sumrall 270pg Battleship Design and History including superb drawings . $29.00 2. FIGHTING FLEETS 1943 (WAR) Edition 310pg Covers Worlds Navy's Quality Pictures Interesting book covering Warship Design , operation, capabilities , statistics and Many Different Pictures of WWII Warships $22.00 4. SOVIET NAVAL OPERATIONS IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR 1941-1945 V.I Achkasov Naval institute press 1981 391pg Covers in detail the Soviet Naval operations in WWII $12.00 5. US. AIRCRAFT CARRIERS An illustrated design history Norman Friedman Naval Institute Press 1983 450pg Drawings, layouts , history Etc. $35.00 6. US DESTROYERS An illustrated design history Norman Friedman Naval Institute Press 1982 490pg Drawings , layouts , history Etc. $35.00 8. UNITED STATES SUBMARINE OPERATIONS in world war II T. Roscoe Naval Institute Press 1956 , Definitive book on Submarine Operations . 577pg Maps, operations, Pictures , Drawings etc. $25.00 9. THE GERMAN NAVY IN WORLD WAR TWO A reference guide to the Kriegsmarine 1935-1945 history , Organization, the ships, warship data, ranks, uniform, awards, insignia, Biographies, U-boats , Chronology , Glossary ETC. Naval Institute Press 1979 225pg (Excellent condition) $25.00 10. JANES FIGHTING SHIPS 1942 (Original) 585pg Cover all the Nations Warships including a Losses (sinking) section. CONDITON: Edge wear, Spine fixed. Pages all in good condition. $49.00 11. THE GERMAN NAVYS STORY 1939-45 Admiral Friedrich Ruge Naval Institute Press 1957 440pg Detailed account of Kregsmarine Operations $14.00 12. WARSHIP RECOGNITION MANUAL United States Navy July 1950 200pg covers US , BRITISH ,USSR ,SWEDEN , ITALY $22.00 13. HOVERCRAFT and HYDROFOILS Hand book 1977 Arco Color series 220pg Color Plates of different machines, History, Technical material, types and uses. GREAT BOOK $14.00 14.. USS CASSINYOUNG (DD-793) Drawings , Schemes , History 50pg $8.00 15.. DESTROYER ESCORTS of World War Two Warship Data Special 1987 Floating Drydock 50pg Drawings, Schemes , History , $9.00 3. US.BATTLESHIPS in action Pt..2 Squadron / signal warships No4 50pg 1984 $8.00 4. WARSHIP No7 Journal of Warship History. July 1978 71pg Softbound book Capitani Romani , Leander , 5inch/38 Gun , HMS TERPSICHORE , Escort ships, Japanese type B Submarine , Essex Class Etc. $8.00 5. SEA CLASSICS Special Spring 1984 US Navy Destroyers at war 1941 - 45 130pg MINT $5.00 MODEL KITS 1. REVELL ROBERT E. LEE Paddle Wheel $14.00 1. AHM 1960s 1/400 WWII T-2 Tanker USS Mission Capistrano $15.00 7. REVELL 1/720 ARK ROYAL Aircraft carrier With British Destroyer Escort ASHANTI 1973 Excellent box art $15.00 8. DML 1/700 USS. TARAWA LHA-1 $ 12.00 9. AOSHIMI No98 1/700 Ocean liner $15.00 NAVAL AVIATION SIKORSKY SH-3D Sea King In Argentine NAVAL service 1993 25pg Color Pictures & info $6.50 SH-2G Kaman Super Seasprite color info brochure $7.00 USN F-4 Phantoms in combat (Vietnam) squadron / signal US Navy Phantoms Drendel1 1988 64pg $7.00 USMC F-4 Phantoms in combat ( Vietnam) squadron/ signals 64pg 1990 $7.00 DETAIL & SCALE US.Navy F-4 Phantom Colors and markings Pacific coast squad. 65pg $7.00 ARCO AIRCAM No34 Mcdonnell-Douglas A-4A/L Skyhawk All services $10.00 WINGS ACROSS THE SEA Austrailian Naval Aviation Pictures , history ,Etc. 1988 162pg $9.00 US NAVY WEST COAST WARRIORS (PT MUGU) all color 96pg $8.00 AEROFAX MINIGRAPH 9 NA A3J/A-5 Vigilante 1989 58pg $8.00 SUPER CARRIERS Osprey color series 1986 many color photos 125pg $8.00 SEVENTH FLEET SUPER CARRIERS Osprey color Series 130pg 1987 $7.00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume