Subject: SMML13/08/98VOL270 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:33:53 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Portland Floatplanes 2: Portland Query. 3: Re: Waterline models 4: Re: Australian Gel Medium 5: Re: Shanghai Dragon Models 6: SSN 575 7: Re: Pre-dreadnought Texas 8: CB-1 USS Alaska again 9: Re: More Wish Lists 10: Re: Where's Slater? 11: Re: USS Portland 12: WEM's Sheffield 13: Building articles/books 14: USS Guadalcanal 15: Re: New Tamiya Yamato 16: Re: Building Articles and Books 17: Re: Shangai Dragon vs Dragon and shadow painting 18: US Sub colors, 1/350 L.A. class sub questions 19: What's that on RN Type 23? 20: Wish list 21: re: Painting parties ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NAVISMAGAZINE.COM - AUGUST ISSUE 2: Battlecruiser Hood by John Roberts ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: USS Portland Floatplanes Jim Owen asked: >> Have any contributors to SMML accurate information on the type of aircraft carried by USS Portland from 1940 onwards but particularly in 1942? << The Curtiss SOC "Seagull" was carried by all cruisers in the USN from 1936 through at least 1942. In 1943, the Ranger-engined Curtiss SO3C-1 began replacing the Seagull but as late as August 1943 there were still nine cruisers in the Atlantic and eighteen in the Pacific still equipped with the SOC. The SO3Cs proved inferior in service and in 1944 SOCs were returned to cruisers until the Curtiss SC-1 became available. In June 1940, the Portland was number three ship in Cruiser Division 5 and carried four(!) SOC-3s. Aircraft at that time were painted in dull aluminum dope overall with yellow on the upper wing top surface. The upper wings also carried a central "True Blue" (Insignia Blue) chevron pointing forward with the aircraft number in black behind. Aircraft of Cruiser Division 5 were identified on the rear fuselage with the code 5-CS-(aircraft number 9-12). Aircraft 5-CS-9 had the "CS" in white within a blue fuselage band, other codes in black. Aircraft 10-12 had no fuselage band: all codes in black. Aircraft 5-CS-9 had a solid blue cowling; aircraft 5-CS-10 had the upper half of the cowling blue, lower half aluminum; 5-CS-11, the reverse of 5-CS-10; 5-CS-12 had a blue stripe running fore and aft on the top and bottom of the cowling. Horizontal stabilizer and vertical stabilizer/rudder had a wide yellow stripe edged in black running fore and aft. The upper surface of the center float had a narrow red propeller warning line. Everything else matt aluminum. (Whew!) These colorful schemes were carried until the first months of 1941, when all ship-based aircraft were repainted in an overall matt light gray scheme. The sources for this information are: Larkins, William T. _Profile Publications Number 194: The Curtiss SOC Seagull_ (Leatherhead, Surrey: Profile Publications, Ltd. 1967) Elliott, John M. _The Official Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide, Vol 1: 1911-1939_ (Boylston, Massachusetts: Monogram Aviation Publications 1987) Doll, Thomas E., Berkley R. Jackson, and William A. Riley._Navy Air Colors: United States Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard Aircraft Camouflage and Markings, Vol. 1: 1911-1945_ (Carrolton, Texas: Squadron/Signal Publications, 1983). Of the three, I think the Squadron/Signal book is the best value. Hope this helps! Feel free to e-mail me if you need more information. Tom Eisenhour ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mr J Owen" Subject: Re: Portland Query. Thank you to everyone who answered my query concerning aircraft carried by USS Portland. I'll now have to contact WEM to buy a pair of SOCs. Thanks again, Jim Owen (UK) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: Waterline models >> Models that are waterlined tend to "curl up" at the bow and stern. If you mount them to a board permanently, you can glue a plastic piece in at each end and screw the bow and stern down from below with small woodsrews. << Or, if you do not want to or can't screw them to a base just put some lead weights on the tabs or glue weights in the creases of the stem and stern. The right amount of weight should pull the hulls ends down. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Australian Gel Medium Gel medium is a product name by Liquitex. They are a huge corporation and I'm sure it (or its equivelent) can be purchased down under. You can find Liquitex products (paint, coatings, etc.) at arts and crafts stores. To find an equivilent to it is pretty easy. This stuff was made for artists who want a lot of texture (Van Goah) to thier paintings. Just ask for a material that does just that. Chances are it will look like and have the texture of mayonase. This is what you want. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Shanghai Dragon Models Same tool, different manufacturer. Shanghai-Dragon models are produced in China while Dragon models I believe are produced in Hong Kong. The quality of the Shanghai-Dragon kits is just as good as the Dragon kits except the Shanghai kits include full hull options and other extras depending on the kit. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Albert Foster Subject: SSN 575 Does anyone know where I can find a model of the Seawolf SSN-575. (I think Aurora made one, I hope it's not the one that is actually a Nautilus inside the box). I am also interested in where I can go for plans. Taubman doesn't have one. Thanks Al_Foster@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pre-dreadnought Texas >> I overheard a snippet of a conversation from the Viking table. I'm not sure if it was Dan Joplin or one of his colleagues. They mentioned the Texas ... "known as the San Marcos". Please, if you're considering a pre-dreadnaugt, make it so. << Dan told that Viking is considering doing a cage mast Texas, but as far as I know it's still speculation. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: CB-1 USS Alaska again >> That area should be Deck Blue 20-B. << This begs the question, and pardon if this has been asked before, but is there a Humbrol equivalent to this and other US Navy colours? Authentic USN colours are not available here in Stavanger, and the numbers mean nothing to me. FS numbers on the other hand... When I said "stumbled" that's pretty much what I did. There's a local part time shop called Hopefully Soon to be a Modeller's Heaven in Tananger that has some pretty good contacts with Eastern European kit manufacturers. HSMH was sent a sample, and it was just in when we went inside to pay for a few things that took me there in the first place. Lying on a chair in the living room, that's where I found it. 450 Norwegian Kroner later, the kit was mine, all mine :) HSMH have a web site although I don't know the address, fax no is +47 51 69 93 70, and they take credit cards. Jens ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: More Wish Lists Bill Gruner wrote: >> Thanks to all who responded to the inquiry about your desires for new injection kits of ships & subs. ... Keep the suggestions coming, especially if you haven't responded yet. << OK, since Tamiya favored us with an early Fletcher, how about an equally accurate 1/350 Gearing. Many served for as long as 50 years in various small navies, though I would think by now they'd all be pretty well worn out. See photos of Brazilian DDs in the new issue of Warship International, for example. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: Where's Slater? Yohan Fernando asked: >> does anyone know where the DE that used to be with the Intrepid was moved to? Last time I was there (2 years ago), it was being restored and I was looking forward to seeing how it came out. << The ex-USS Slater was towed up river to Albany, New York, some months ago. Not sure of the exact circumstances but apparently there was some sort of disagreement with the Intrepid custodians. Anybody know the details? A pity they all couldn't keep everything in one location. MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: USS Portland Jim Owen asked about: >> information on the type of aircraft carried by USS Portland from 1940 onwards but particularly in 1942? Can anyone say with certainty whether or not one or two aircraft would have been carried? << Not an expert, but I believe most US cruisers would have carried (biplane) SOC-3 Seagulls pre-war and possibly until 1943-44, when they would have been replaced by OS2U Kingfishers or SO3C Seamews, depending on availability. Some ships may well have used the SOC-3 through the entire war. Kingfishers would have been used on battleships from 1941 until replaced by the Seamew or SC-1 Seahawk. Reference books include "Fantail Fighters" by Jerry Scutts (Phalanx Books 1995) and "Battleship & Cruiser Aircraft of the United States Navy" by William Larkins (Schiffer 1996). The latter is probably the definitive work and would spell out what aircraft were carried by which ships, and when. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Alberto Rada Subject: WEM's Sheffield Hi Today the postman brought a huge box, and guess what was it? WEM's new Sheffield, OK, this for me is a ritual, I got a good, hot cup of tea, sat undisturbed in my studio, and proceeded to open the parcel, I have to confess that usually I have a mix feeling of anxiety and restrain, due to more than one previous disappointment. Wrap, Wrap and here comes this big part all wrapped up in bubbling plastic, the Hull (waterline) . . . and . . . ITS FANTASTIC, I just sat there for I don't know how long just admiring this beautiful piece of work, its huge, but absolutely straight, and not a single bubble or the slightest misshape, and the deck is, well its superb, with the minuscule scribed wood planking and the portholes with eyebrows, you just have to see this to believe it. Then all the small resin parts, not a trace of flash, you know it even includes spare parts, to hang on the hangar walls, for the two Walrus planes, I wander how am I going to shrink my friends to look at this after finished, and the two photo-etched sheets with different thickness according to the parts, and the instructions ? everything we have discussed, well its there, its 23 pages including 2 color schemes. And the price tag, well it only meant the whole family (including the cat) in tined beans for one month (they really love me). Well, OK I have to calm down, I know, but I really had to share this with you, this is the most beautiful model ship kit I have seen ( and had ) SALUDOS Alberto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Denis G. Campbell" Subject: Building articles/books Reply to John who asked about books/articles on building, painting, working with photoetch etc. - although I am fairly new to ship modeling, I have been modeling on and off most of my life (and I am now retired, so I am pretty old!) and one of the best books I have come across is: Building and detailing Scale Model Ships by: Mike Ashey. Published by Kalmbach (800-533-6644) cover price $18.95. Your Hobby Shop either has it or can get it for you or call the 800 number and pay P&H. This book also has a chapter on converting full hull models to waterline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: USS Guadalcanal Does anyone out there have an opinion (or a better reference) on the painting of CVE-60, USS Guadalcanal? The Ms 32-4a scheme indicates a haze gray section midships, light gray at the fore and aft ends and a feathered navy blue pattern. The photos in Squadrons Escort Carriers in Action seem to indicate that the midship section is the same as the rest of the ship. Any help would be appreciated. Frank Berger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Sue & Ben Subject: Re: New Tamiya Yamato Thanks for your input Yohan Ben Montreal, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Building Articles and Books John Frohock asked for a good reference for building plastic or resin ship models. I have enjoyed the following Kalmbach Publishing (Fine Scale Modeler) books: "Building & Detailing Scale Model Ships" by Mike Ashey; 1996, $18. He leads you through his building and modifying several plastic and resin kits, with painting and photoetch. We can discuss historical accuracy and incomplete scratch modifying at a different time, but I learned a lot of good techniques and have referred to it several times. "Scale Model Detailing" 1995, $15. This book contains some good article reprints from Fine Scale Modeler, including a great conversion by Bob Santos of the Glencoe USS Oregon into the USS Massachusetts. I bet both books are available from Kalmbach directly (1-800-533-6644). I just saw the first book in Model Expo's latest catalog (1-800-222-3876). Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: Shangai Dragon vs Dragon and shadow painting Hi guys... The only difference I have seen between these two companies is their price. They are both part of the same company and what Dragon is apparently doing is that after a given kit has its first "run" on the market, sales drop off. (Since we all will knock over old ladys to get our hands on a kit when it is new). Now reruns cost as much in machine time as new kits (tooling not withstanding), so Dragon built another plant in guess where? Shanghai, China...The labor rate there vs either Hong Kong or Japan is is something on the order of 20%. So Dragon makes these kits with the original tooling, but at a greatly reduced price. They can then sell the kits much cheaper and regain consumer interest in an "older" kit. Sneaky huh? A word about "Shadow painting"...Having taken the occasional foray into hard things with tracks, keep in mind that armor is primarily 1/35th scale and even at that scale I have seen more models poorly shadowed than I have seen done well.... Shadowing involves replicating the sun (or other light source) as if if were coming from a specific angle. On tanks there are only 10 or 20 areas where this shows up (under the turret overhang etc). On a ship there could be hundreds, every turret, barbette, locker, change in deck house shape, deck level, etc., plus many more that would not show up in the scales we work in (masts, radar arrays, gun barrels)...If I might make a suggestion, you can do wonders with a well stocked supply of soft oil pastels (Alphacolor by Weber Costello are my favorites). Get a set of their grays and a set of their earthtones and go to it... Working on too much caffeine Glenn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Donald Hinton" Subject: US Sub colors, 1/350 L.A. class sub questions >> As far as a paint scheme, US subs are a dull black with some blue on the topside. << Hello, I'm not an expert on subs, but I routinely go down to the Sub Base at Pearl Harbor and enjoy standing next to the subs. Got a tour of the USS Kamehameha (old Ben Franklin class ex SSBN, now a SEAL delivery sub) two weeks ago--I must have looked pretty pitifull standing there drooling, so the guard just asked if I wanted a tour. Sure! By the way, the SEAL mini-sub is real cool. Anyway, I'm getting ready to do a 1/350 L.A. class attack sub, so I've paid a lot of attention to their colors/textures. I've not stood next to an Ohio class SSBN yet, but all the L.A. class subs are all shades of black with no noticeable blue. I intend to paint mine with varying shades of scale black/gray and with differing sheens (I definitely don't use pure black in this scale). The rubber tiling is very black and almost a satin sheen. The anti-skid walk ways were the blackest black and also the flattest finish (get rid of that unscale pebble finish on the kit though). The regular metal surfaces were basically flat, but not as dark as the walk way. The sonar dome was also a different shade of black, close, but different, to the metal surfaces. I haven't seen any of them with the anti-fouling paint visible from the pier (at least not at the waterline). Now I have some questions about L.A. class subs: 1. I would tend to think they don't paint the rubber tiles, but what about other areas underwater that wouldn't be tiled, such as around the screw, or on the lower part of the sonar dome? Any ideas? 2. Any tips on building the DML USS Hampton kit? I know what to do to the kit above the waterline, but what about below it? Any construction problems to watch for? TIA Don Hinton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Michael Kear Subject: What's that on RN Type 23? I was looking at a photo of HMS Monmouth (F235 - one of the RN's new type 23 frigates) the other day, and I noticed that on the hangar roof are three walls, sort of like the breakwater up forward in front of the gun. I know "wall" isn't a nautical term, but they are only about 4 feet high, judging by the crewmembers standing near - about the same height as the railings. But since they're not at the sides of the ship they can't be that. These puppies are going across the ship. And they can't be breakwaters, .. not back aft on the hangar roof. Hell the ship's in real heavy seas if it needs a breakwater there! One is a quarter circle, and the other two are slightly curved, with the convex pointing aft. There's another such wall on the bridge roof, curved in the other direction. I.e. with the convex pointing forward.. I've never seen these things before. They are also on a photo of HMS Richmond I've seen too. Anyone know what they are? Fair winds and following seas, Mike Kear, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins Subject: Wish list Hi all, I would like to add something different to the wish list. I would like Airfix, Revell, Monogram etc to re-release all their old ship kits in one hit. Unrealistic I know, but hey it's a wish list, just think off all the old Airfix Liners, RN kits at reasonable prices. Also I would like all the resin manufactures to release their kits in plastic to the same quality as their resin kits. Even more unrealistic at this point :-), but what the hell. Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting parties Stephen Rogers wrote: >>Everyone has a method, here's mine... One reader inquired about airbrush compressors, I use CO2 with a regulator. Tanks can be purchased at your local fire extinguisher supply and regulators at an art supply or welder's supply. Total cost around $150. << I'll see your $150 and lower you $110... my air "tank" is a 1968 VW Bug 6.00X15 bias ply tire mounted on its original 4.5" rim. I use a Black and Decker Air Station air compressor to inflate the tire to 30-40 lbs. I use a Badger tire valve adapter to power my Badger 200 airbrush. Method is simple: spray large areas when pressure is high, more delicate patterns as pressure drops. Total cost: about $40 US for a used tire and compressor. Been using this system for years with proven results. Hey, you don't HAVE to spend a lot of money in this hobby. Use recycled stuff when possible. JG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: NAVISMAGAZINE.COM - AUGUST ISSUE $100+ worth of prizes this month!!!! AUGUST 1998 FEATURES: - Loren Perry's Titanic - Building a 1/72 W29 - B 29 - history and walk-around - Battle class destroyers - Building a 1/48 Ju-88 A4 - Building a 1/700 A. Burke DDG - part II - LCAC walk-around - USMC Supercobra walk-around - Painting decks - Building a Typhoon class diorama - Classic kit: Aurora's Enterprise CVN 65 PLUS THE USUAL COLUMNS: - Modeler Profile - Model Showcase - On the market (product reviews) - Naval reconnnaissance - News from the kit industry - New Books - Letters - Bulletin Board come check us out at http://navismagazine.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Lisa & Frank Allen" Subject: Battlecruiser Hood by John Roberts Does anyone out there have the old Conway Anatomy of the Ship series book "The Battlecruiser Hood" by John Roberts? Want to sell/trade it? If not, would you be willing to look-up and pass-on some information to me? I already have the Mongraphie Morskie #6, but it doen't have some of the info I need. Please respond direct to me at clfallen@worldnet.att.net Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume