Subject: SMML14/08/98VOL271 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:21:42 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: CB-1 USS Alaska again 2: Re: SSN 575 3: Re: Holding down waterline ships 4: Re:Mike Asheys book 5: Waterlineing kits 6: Re Los Angeles paint schemes 7: WEM's Sheffield 8: Re: What's that on RN Type 23 9: Re: CGN Models 10: Re: Pretty/Ugly/Wanted Ship choices - Scale???? 11: Re: What's that on RN Type 23? 12: Type 23 13: Re: Plastic injection kits 14: Cost to do injection kit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WTD - Ships without names 2: Thanks and final Des Moines Model Update 3: Re: SAMEK ALASKAS - 1/700 scale 4: WTD - 1/700 Skywave Russian weapons set ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: CB-1 USS Alaska again >> That area should be Deck Blue 20-B. << >> This begs the question, and pardon if this has been asked before, but is there a Humbrol equivalent to this and other US Navy colours? Authentic USN colours are not available here in Stavanger, and the numbers mean nothing to me. FS numbers on the other hand... << First start with the FS numbers. There are no corresponding FS numbers to these colors since the colors were discontinued prior to the establishment of the FS system. As for a Humbrol equivalent, that's difficult since here in Tennessee, Humbrol is a pretty rare paint. Here's my recommendation. 20-B Deck Blue is very close to Indigo, so a very dark blue should suffice. Dull Black should be a very dark gray (almost black). 5-O Ocean Gray (the counter pattern for the 20-B) is a medium blue similar to US Intermediate Blue with a little darkening to the blue side, and 5-H Haze Gray (the counter for Dull Black) should be a lightened US Intermediate Blue to the gray side. If you're able to mix some colors up to these estimations, and it looks right, then you're in business. Good Luck. Jon Warneke Iron Shipwrights ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: SSN 575 Al Foster wrote: >> Does anyone know where I can find a model of the Seawolf SSN-575. (I think Aurora made one, I hope it's not the one that is actually a Nautilus inside the box). << Unfortunately, that's the one. The kit isn't accurate as either a Nautilus or a Seawolf, but it's far closer to the Nautilus. My micro-review is available on Rajen's List, http://www.navismagazine.com/rajendra.htm David R. Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Holding down waterline ships >> Models that are waterlined tend to "curl up" at the bow and stern. If you mount them to a board permanently, you can glue a plastic piece in at each end and screw the bow and stern down from below with small woodsrews. << >> Or, if you do not want to or can't screw them to a base just put some lead weights on the tabs or glue weights in the creases of the stem and stern. The right amount of weight should pull the hulls ends down. << By using Liquitex gel Medium for the water, the gel will permanently fix the model to the base. For 1/350 scale, make waves with Sculpey modeling compound and fix the model to the base with a thick coat of gel medium. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Mike Asheys book >> Reply to John who asked about books/articles on building, painting, working with photoetch etc. - although I am fairly new to ship modeling, I have been modeling on and off most of my life (and I am now retired, so I am pretty old!) and one of the best books I have come across is: Building and detailing Scale Model Ships by: Mike Ashey << I second that! A great book for beginners and old salts. Worth every dime. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Waterlineing kits For what its worth, I've been water lining full hull kits, with nothing more sophisticated than a roll of dynotape, and a Offa scribing tool. All I do is stick the tape round the hull at the top of the boot topping, and then ruin the scriber round a few times, applying more pressure progressively until you're through. Then clean up the split with a knife, and a decent sanding block. What I've usually done first is tape, or glue the deck in place, (its really useful being able to secure the deck from below ), and then add some balsa blocks into the hull to maintain its shape, and ensure there's something to secure to the base. These blocks are glues in with either epoxy, or PVA, and when dry, I use Epoxy again to glue the blocks to the base. After I've painted the hull, I run a thin bead of PVA round the hull/waterline, just to close off any gaps, It may not be the best way, but it works for me. I've done the Tamiya POW and USS New Jersey, and so far so good. I'll use this method when I come to start work on my Tamiya Enterprise when HJL deliver it, (my wife's Xmas present to me this year, after I found out Enterprise and I were born on the same day, she was laid down on 4th Feb 1958, the day I was born. Its no good dear I said, its destiny I must build her) Other recent topics, Ships I'd most like to see in plastic, How about the Liberty ship family? And the related attach transport series of ships, how about a 1/350th invasion diorama! WEM Sheffield I've glued the hull casting to the the building stocks I use, and sprayed the wooden deck, and I still sit there look at it and wonder at the skills of the Brian Fawcett who produced the masters! Misc May I recommend the following book, "Goldfinder" by Keith Jessop, the leader of the team who raised the 4 1/2 tons of gold from HMS Edinburgh in 1981, hellva good read, and a good chunk of naval history , just out in the UK in hardback. Colin Ritchie /nWOm and WEMblie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Tomcat" Subject: Re Los Angeles paint schemes Hi! I'm currently in the process of building a LA in 1:72 and ordered a plan from Deep Sea Design. Accompanying the plan was a folder with a brief outline of the LA class. It also covered paint schemes and according to the brieflet the subs are delivered with black above design waterline and red antifouling below. The Navy then promptly repaints the sub so that the upper half of the hull is all black and the lower section is red. Also all pennent numbers is masked. Props are bronze coloured(or not painted ie). The brieflet was written by among others David Merriman who is regarded as a kind of guru in the RC sub sphere. Cheers Fredrik Tholander Gothenburg, Sweden ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Duane Fowler Subject: WEM's Sheffield Alberto, I too ordered WEM's Sheffield but it hasn't arrived yet. I have been camping in a tent next to the mailbox and accosting the delivery driver each day to no avail. I've already ruined a keyboard by drooling in it while I read your note. I too am living on franks and beans to afford it. I have built a shrine in the garrage for it's unrapping. WHEN WILL IT ARRIVE?!? Regards, Duane (I really have no life) Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Baker Subject: Re: What's that on RN Type 23 For Mike Kear: The curved shapes on the roof of the hangar (and there is another like them atop the pilothouse) have radiuses centered on the Marconi Type 911(1) missile illumination/fire-control radar antennas; thus, they are probably side-lobe suppression baffles. Dave Baker ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: CGN Models Mike Leonard wrote: >> Revell Long Beach - 1/500 scale - injected plastic. Ancient kit, may now be out of production. Revell of Germany used to produce. About $12 US. << I forgot about that one, even though it's sitting on my shelf. It's far from an ideal kit. The SPS-32 and 33 radars are completely missing. There are only two Terrier directors (instead of four) and one Talos director. (instead of two) All the directors look more like SPQ-5s than SPG-55s and SPG-49s. The ASROC launcher is missing. It's quite salvageable, if you've got parts lying around from some Monogram Chicagos and Renwal Galvestons. A more complete mini-review is available on Rajen's List at: http://www.navismagazine.com/rajendra.htm . David R. Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Pretty/Ugly/Wanted Ship choices - Scale???? Keith Butterley wrote: >> Actually this brings me to a scale problem. Granted the market is primarily is 700 aand 350. I love the variety in 700 but my eyesight and fat fingers have a real problem with that scale. 350 generally is just to BIG. Wouldn't it be nice if Airfix would really put some effort into their 600 scale line. I have all three scales on the shelves above me. I have found that 600 is far and away for me, is just the easiest to work with and they don't take up a lot of room. Anybody else like to jump in here with a comment? << I like 1/500 myself, but I've got a bunch of Airfix 1/600s. I like 'em! Granted, the quality is highly variable, but there are some really good ones in there. I wish Airfix would do some more recent ships in 1/600, such as an Invincible, (yeah, I heard about the Revell 1/700) or a Type 42, (got the Skywave, no lectures please) or a Type 23. Sadly, it's extremely unlikely. Airfix believes that 1/48 aircraft are the future, and they are putting all their efforts into those. >> PS Believe it or not I just got my hands on a Frog (remember them) 500 scale HMS Royal Sovereign. It is unbuilt and intact. I don't know whether to build it or turn it into a shrine :-) << Revell Germany just re-issued it. You could sell the Frog to a kit collector, buy the Revell, and put the difference in the bank. BTW: The model is much closer to HMS Revenge than HMS Royal Sovereign. >> Bet there ain't no PE for this puppy. << If I recall correctly, GMM made a generic 1/500 set. I think they had some of the Nichimo 1/500 ships in mind, but you might be able to use the railings anyway..... David R. Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: ASHough@aol.com Subject: Re: What's that on RN Type 23? Mike, As the Systems Engineer responsible for some of the intial work on the 'fences' on the hanger roof, may I answer your question. They were designed to overcome a problem with the Seawolf Tracker radar system fitted. At very low angles of elevation, (e.g.tracking sea skimming missiles) the radar signal from the tracker could reflect off the roof of the hanger or the flat surface of the superstructure above and behind the bridge, giving a false reading of the elevation of the target. The radar fences are designed to cut down the reflection. You should notice that the centre of curvature of the fences is the centre of rotation of the tracker. Regards Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: Type 23 In responding to the question raised about the "walls" on the Type 23s, I think they are either RAM or perhaps IR suppression. Not 100% sure, but have it on reasonably good authority. I think they are also on top of the bridge. Hope this helps Stuart Robottom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: khglam@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: Plastic injection kits Starting with a premise that a lot of kits are sold to people who served on a particular ship, or to someone who knows someone who served on a ship, I would expect that FRAM Gearings would be a good kit to produce because of the longevity of the class, the number of countries which this class served in, and the fact that most of the sailors who served on them or their kids are still around. I would like to see a kit with various extra armaments so that the kit can be build into a FRAM I/II, Turkish/Taiwanese upgrades, etc. Chung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: khglam@ucdavis.edu Subject: Cost to do injection kit I know this question has been alluded to in one of the very early SMML. How much does it cost to develop a plastic injection kit? For a 1/350 scale modern destroyer, what would the cost look like? Cost of master pattern Cost of injection mold Cost of plastic Cost of packaging Man hours to design kit Man hours to manufacture kit The reason I ask is that in my last trip to Taiwan, I found an incredibly large variety of PLA (Chinese) Navy models. Zhengdefu sells a line of 1/260 ships (~$15USD). They had at least 15 different models. They also have a Spruance, a Ticonderoga, a Soveremmy and an Udaloy in box scale. Another company call AA?? sells the PLA ships in both 1/200 (~$40USD) and 1/350 scales (~$10USD). There were at least 20 different models. Essentially, you can do the entire PLA navy in 1/260 or 1/350 scale. I know that China has a big population, but how many are ship modelers? How can these guys survive (will they?) Has anyone try to ask these companies to build the Alaska? Anyone want to try? Chung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "DAVID CLIFFE" Subject: Ships without names Dear all, Does anyone have a copy they'd be willing to sell of Brian MacDermott Ships Without Names.....Arms and Armour Press, 1992. If so please let me know asking price, condition etc. I missed this one when it came out! Mike Cooper Reading UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Thanks and final Des Moines Model Update Hello Group, Thanks to Dennis Campbell and Roger Clemmens for their advice on a good primer on resin kit building. This will be the last time I write to the group about the US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum's offering of a 1/350 resin kit of the Des Moines Class CAs (honest). Steve Wiper at Classic Warships has outdone himself on this one with more detail than he has ever put into a kit before. He has had me picture taking and measuring everything you can't get off a plan. Try getting pictures of the top of the main director, under the radar antenna. Not for the faint hearted. We will also have a full decal set for all three ships in the class including stern name, draft marks, Es with hash marks, National Ensign and jack. Everything but glue, paint and patience is included. There is still time to order the kit thru the museum model dept. and get one from the first production run. If your interested send me an e-mail for details. The kits ship in about 6 weeks. All proceeds go to the restoration and preservation of the USS Salem (CA139). John Frohock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: Re: SAMEK ALASKAS - 1/700 scale In response to inquiries about this model, we have still on backorder a large number of these kits from Samek. It took almost 6 months for Samek to ship our first order for these kits, and we couldn't even cover all of our backorders. Hopefully this next batch will arrive very soon, and we will cover our backorders first, as we have made sure we ordered enough. Thanks for your patience....the wait will be worth it. Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: 1/700 Skywave Russian weapons set Does anyone have one of the Skywave Russian weapons sets they would like to sell? I would be happy to pay a reasonable price. E-mail with price and information. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume