Subject: SMML22/08/98VOL279 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:19:17 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Value of models 2: Re: HMS Zulu, HMS Prince of Wales 3: Re: Defence Visual Information Center 4: Re: Modern submarine propellers 5: Re: Id this kit? 6: Knot info request 7: Re: Sunk By Der Bismarck 8: Re: Ken Durling's POW Info Request. 9: Richelieu: Colors, etc. 10: What kit? 11: WW1 RN Battleship and Battlecruiser Colours 12: Re: Naval Base LST 13: Prince of Wales 14: HMS ZULU 15: Re: Ken's mystery kit & Navalbase LST. 16: Re: Heller U-Boat 17: Re: USS Hollister Photos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: custom etching 2: Re: Ship models builing service 3: Re: Books for Sale 4: New customer service from White Ensign Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Value of models >> " The model is . . . worth what someone would pay for it. With fairly rare exceptions that means it is worth pretty close to nothing." Dr. Horvath's statement is at: http://www.PacificHistory.com/PEMMODELFILE/MASSES.HTML If that's so, then shouldn't I be able to find some of these display-quality models at low prices? << I read that article. "Dr. Horvarth PhD, JD" is a professor and a lawyer and admits to being a poor model-builder. He discusses value in the context of a tort law suit to recover monetarily for damage to a model. That dismissive and unfortunate statement has more to do with legal evidentiary problems of proving the value of a "work of art" than the actual economics of modelbuilding. The reason why you can't find a quality model at a low price is because building one is an extremely labor and time intensive excersise requiring highly specialized knowledge, and because well made models are sought after by people with money and without the time or talent or inclination to build their own. Well made models are indeed very valuable, especially ship models. Have you tried building your own? David Krakow Frankfurt Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Zulu, HMS Prince of Wales Hi All, According to the camo pattern for the Zulu in an article by Peter Hodges called "Paints for Warship Camouflage," her deck was MS2 (and her hull was MS3 and her upperworks were MS4A). Before you ask what that means, I think John Snyder and Randy Short are coming out with a set of paint chips for RN colors (I mean colours) to complement the set they've already done on USN colors. I last heard that would be done by December, but I don't know the current schedule. I can't e-mail a photo of her, but there's a widely reproduced wartime photo of her that is in, for instance, the Warship Profile on the Cossack, Martin Brice's book The Tribals, and Hodges' book on the Tribal Class Destroyers. You could also get an 8X10 of it from the Imperial War Museum, and it might be worth it. By the way, does anyone know anything about that Hodges article? I've heard it was published in Model Shipwright, but the article has no footers to indicate the source or the date of publication. Ken was asking for a source of info on the Prince of Wales; I assume he got the 1/700 kit (the 1/350 kit would've been a real bargain for $1!). Does he want camo info or info on making sure the kit is accurate or both? Regards, Art Nicholson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Defence Visual Information Center >> Rusty, saw your post about DVIC I couldnt make the E-Mail work any ideas? Thanks Sam Pullig << Sam, I have trouble getting through to the DVIC web page due to overloaded phone lines. Try accessing the web site early in the day or late at night when things slow down a little. I have always been able contact Kathy Vinson via e-mail. Just request a Customer Guide and have them mail it to you. Here is the address and e-mail right off the letter she wrote me. DVIC-O-OPC ATTN: Kathy Vinson 1363 Z Street, Bldg. 2730 March ARB, CA 92518-2073 Phone: (909) 413-2522 or Fax:(909) 413-2525 Email: vinsoka@dodmedia.osd.mil ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Modern submarine propellers >> 1:350 scale modern Submarine Propellors << Actuallly, the Flagship Model propellers are so reasonably priced, I would urge you to get a set. Support your local vendor and encourage them to keep producing better aftermarket items. I have the 1:350 and the 1:700 set, and they are very well done and very inexpensive for brass photoetch. Even if you only use the 4 large crescent blades, it's a big improvement at under $2.00 a model. The only drawbacks (Sorry, Rusty) are that the "conventional props" (non-crescent shaped speed props) are 6 bladed, and due to harmonics, no US submarine ever had 6 bladed props. Real speed props were 5 bladed. Also, since the set was put out, addditional details have come to light on the propeller shapes, and the crescent shaped blades actually are thickest at the root, and taper smoothly to a point as they make the curve. Having said that, these props are infinitely superior to the kit propeller. Also, most importantly, the kit propeller is molded to turn IN THE WRONG DIRECTION!! The propeller should go clockwise, as viewed from the rear. For the DML Ohio, use the larger crescent shaped blades. Same is true for the DML Dallas. However, the DML USS Hampton comes with two propellers; one lame and a new one that is fairly close to the real thing. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: Id this kit? Going by the description of the kit, this doesn't look easy... Under the assumption that its a capital ship- It's not a British battleship or any modernized Japanese ship because of the clipper bow. It's not a German ship because it has two funnels. It's not an American fast battleship or theYamato or any French or Italian ship because of the main battery arrangement (twin turrets). It's not a WWI British or German dreadnaught for many many reasons... What's left? Getting close is a Colorado class ship except that when they had two funnels they were of the same size. The secondary armament doesn't match either. The only other American ships exclusively with twin turrets (Texas, New York, Arkansas) had a different turret arrangement. It's also not Repulse since she only had three main turrets. Maybe it's not a capital ship? A cruiser? The uneven size of the funnels should narrow things quite a bit. Unfortunatly, most cruisers with two unevenly sized funnels where Japanese but none had the main battery arrangement described. American cruisers generally had two funnels of the same size. The turret arrangement and appearance remind me of Prinz Eugen, but that class only had a single funnel. British cruisers with two uneven funnels, the described main batteries and large enough to have six twin turrets for secondaries? None that come to mind. I don't know anything about Italien or French cruisers so can't comment there. I'm doing all this process of elimination from memory so if I missed something obvious, someone let me know. Has the kit been built or are these parts being ID'd from the sprues? Is there a chance that the box contains parts from two or more seperate kits? Sorry I couldn't come up with something right away. Anyone else figured this one out? Yohan Fernando ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Knot info request Could someone tell me how fast a knot is in miles per hour? (Or for you chaps across the pond, kilometers per hour, and I'll convert that.) Also, is air speed knots the same as water speed knots? I'm attempting to untangle the intricacies of the subject and string together an understanding of ship speeds, but am not trying to start a thread or tie up the list. Thanks, JG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Lisa & Frank Allen" Subject: Re: Sunk By Der Bismarck Poor ol' Hood...that's a heck of a way to be remembered huh?! All kidding aside, for those of you that missed it, "Sunk by the Bismarck" will be re-aired this sunday (23 Aug 98) at 6:00 PM (EST/PST I presume). I missed the last broadcast myself and am eagerly looking forward to seeing it this weekend. Frank Allen (Big Hood Fan) Colorado Springs, CO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Ken Durling's POW Info Request. The WARSHIP magazine from Conway Maritime Press back in the early 80's had a multipart series on the King George V class with lots of drawings of individual ships. Gives lots of variations within the class. POW is covered in detail. Also had info on paint schemes which seems to conflict with other paint scheme info elsewhere. RN paint schemes seem to be some of 'life's little mysteries'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: rmorin1@banet.net Subject: Richelieu: Colors, etc. I recently received the Hi-Mold Richelieu and am in need of some info on color schemes and other details. The kit appears to represent the ship immediately post-WW II given that half of the 20mm installed at New York in 1943 have been removed even though the gun positions, e.g. on the forecastle, remain. Also, the paint scheme depicted (graded scheme which looks something like Ms 22 in black/white pictures) is the one the ship wore during the late '40's. Can anyone confirm this assessment of the period depicted? Does anyone have any information on the colots actually used in this scheme? In light of the fact that Richelieu had been supported by the US logistical system during '43-'45, it may be reasonable to asume that USN colors were used. But if the ship wasn't repainted in this scheme until she returned to France, other colors likely would have been used. Could the model also depict Richelieu as she was during service during the final years of the war? Would it be as simple as adding the missing 20mm, or are additional modifications necessary? Also, does anyone have any information on the colors used in the rather singular camouflage scheme applied as part of the 1934 New York refit? Thanks for any help, Jim Chambers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: What kit? Are our tails being pulled....? Not Hood in a Victorious box, 2 Turrets fore and aft, 6 secondaries? Well, that cuts out most Airfix kits: Warspite, Iron Duke, KGV, Repulse, Nelson, Ark Royal, Scharnhorst, all the cruisers...... OK, what scale are we talking about, Nationality? Not American, Japanese BB perhaps?, but why think it was Hood? Hmmmmmn, Douglas (I'm not telling how many 1/700ish Warships I've got, and certainly not how many remain to be built......) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Max Loosli Subject: WW1 RN Battleship and Battlecruiser Colours Hello All, I'm looking for guidance on colours for WW1 RN Battleships and Battlecruisers. I would be particularly pleased if someone could give me Humbrol (or other 'mainstream' model paint company) equivalents, both for hull and deck colours. I know I could go to an Airfix kit and look at what they say, but I thought I would start with people who understand these things. (My ideal would be to find that some of my aircraft greys were useable ......) I would also be grateful for guidance on whether photographs of HMS Lion (for example) show a lighter colour than normal, what ever normal means. It has been suggested that some RN Battlecruisers were painted in RN Cruiser grey which was much lighter than the 'normal' Battleship grey (because it made the ships look better ?). Any thoughts ? Best Regards, Max Loosli ----------------------------------------------------------------------------12) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Re: Naval Base LST I am looking at kit. It is 1/245. Typical 60's kit. I read awhile back whose original molds it is from but I forgot. Naval Base also sells additional tanks and vehicles for it. Should make into a good Model assuming the fit is ok. Kit was cheap[ I bought it] Check out their Web site. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Prince of Wales >> Also I'd like to be pointed at some good POW refs. This looks like a great kit, but I don't know from POW kits. Is it? Is there a standard kit for this ship? A standard reference book? << Warship, Volume III has a four part article on the King George V class battleships. Since the PoW had such a short life, it is covered in only the first two articles. There is another book about the KGV class but I haven't seen it anywhere for quite some time. Regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: HMS ZULU Do not have a photo, but did come across TAUBMAN PLANS at: http://www.modelersboatyard.com/taubman/british_warship They have a 1/16 plan 23 1/2" for $10.00 for MAJABELE. Lots of others also. Has anyone used these plans or can we start a discussion of the "best" ones to use or are they even very valid for what most of our inquires are? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------15) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Ken's mystery kit & Navalbase LST. The mystery Airfix kit sounds like the battlecruiser HMS REPULSE. Airfix made one years ago. The Naval Base LST is injected plastic, a re-molding of the old Lindberg kit with a improved decal sheet (number assortment) allowing any ship in the class to be modeled. Daniel Jones ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Heller U-Boat Felix B. wrote: >> I just received the Heller 1/400 scale U-Boat model ... It is supposed to be a Type VII C u-boat. This kit is really tiny (it is almost "cute"). Just wanted to hear from anyone with experience with this kit, does it do a decent job of representing this class of u-boat and what are the good sources of info on U Boats with photos. << It is sort of cute, but compares badly to the newer 1/350 resin models, in my opinion. Not much detail and the hull is solid with no openings, as I seem to recall. I built one into a little diorama of the sunken U-85 shortly after I dove on the wreck back in 1984 (off Nags Head, NC). I covered the hull with simulated marine growth and even scratchbuilt a few "scuba divers" touching the conning tower. Turning it into a serious model might be a lot of work, though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: USS Hollister Photos >> I need to accurately a particular ship model (USS Hollister). How can I obtain an accurate photo of the ship at the time my father was aboard? It is important to me, he has recently suffered a stroke and I want to present him with an accurate representation of the ship in which he served. << There are photos of Hollister (DD-788) at - http://www.plateau.net/usndd/dd788 (color picture dated 1977) and also at http://www.navsource.org/Archives/ddphoto4.htm#DD-775 Scroll down a bit to see several color and B&W photos from circa the Korean War and later. You can get actual glossy photos from the US Naval Institute (www.usni.org) and Real War Photos, among others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Re: custom etching Hi Rusty Please send me the specs for your etching services! Thanks! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Ship models builing service >> I'm deterred by the prices- $2,000 to $11,000 for a ship model. (I think these prices are reasonable considering the expenditure of time and talent to produce them.) I would like to know if there other sources for collectors? Or do I grit my teeth and write big checks? << Tyson Models advertises in FSM. I have their recent catalogue and they offer a full line of ship models but they are not cheap ($900.00 to over $5000.00). I'm sure they will send you a full color catalogue. I build models for clients from time to time and since I make part of my living doing this my prices are about the same. I'll be happy to give you an estimate if you're serious about a museum quality model. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Books for Sale Skip, I am unable to send you an e-mail msgs - I am interetsed in purchasing the book "Fighting Fleets" 1943. Is it still available? John Heasel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Dave Carter Subject: New customer service from White Ensign Models Hi guys, We've just obtained a digital camera with x10 zoom. One advantage of this is that if anyone wants a picture of e.g. an "AIRSTRIKE 700" aircraft before they buy, or a pic of the contents of a kit box (that new Skywave E1 weapons set or Arleigh Burke for example), the cover of a book,or even their own personal pic of Rumbly the Siamese cat in an interesting pose, they can EMail me and ask for it... one click, and we can whizz the pic down the wires. Obviously, this has always been the problem with mail order, and is an area where a shop or a stand at a model show win hands down, and to us, anyway, this seemed like a pretty good solution. BTW, we got a sneak preview into the 21st Century today with Ian Ruscoe's trimaran carrier build.. 34 inches long in 1/350 Scale.. it will be on show at the "Festival of the Sea" at the end of the month. Pretty awesome, cross a Klingon battlecruiser with a 747... got the idea?? I would LOVE to do a feature on it but then I'd have to kill you all!! Cheers Caroline "Shiphead" Carter/nWMo and WEMblie White Ensign Models, Bookmark us for totally irregular updates at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/ FREE WORLDWIDE AIRMAIL SHIPPING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume