Subject: SMML23/08/98VOL280 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:14:59 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Saginaw Model 2: What DD/FF/CG goes with what carrier when? 3: Re: Knot info request 4: Re: Ship Model Buiding Service and Worth of models 5: Re: Knot info request 6: Re: Ship Model Buiding Service and Worth of models 7: knots question 8: Tamiya Model Magazine 9: Re: Nautical/Statute 10: Re: Mystery kit 11: Re: HMS ZULU, HMS PRINCE OF WALES 12: Re: WW1 RN BB & BC Colo(u)rs 13: Re: knots 14: Re: Naval Base LST 15: Re: Cheap Bismark! 16: Re: ID this ship 17: Knot Info Request 18: Knots vs. miles per hour 19: KNOT Conversion 20: Knots of speed 21: Specs on the LST model 22: POW References ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: USS Saginaw Model Brian wrote: >> ... my father came home from the Gator Base in VA Beach with ... a rather large fiberglass model of his ship, the USS Saginaw LST 1188. Apparantly, it was built as a training aid by an on base workshop and was about to be tossed in the trash when dad saved it. << Wow! Can't help you in your search, but it does remind me of the old Amphibious Museum at NAB Little Creek, VA, which had some excellent large-scale models of riverine craft and amphibs. Outside there were static displays of a few landing craft and Marine amtracs, an Ontos, etc. In their infinite wisdom, the Navy saw fit to shut it down some time in the late 1980s and turn the building into a snack bar for people using the marina. What a waste! A few of the models were farmed out to other buildings around the base, but I have to wonder how many just got trashed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: What DD/FF/CG goes with what carrier when? Although I haven't actually *finished* the 1:700/720 ships I've started, I intend to put them in pairs in waterline mini-dioramas. Say, Tarawa (LHA-1) with a Perry-class FFG, Enterprise (orig. config.) with a C.F. Adams class DDG. Does anyone know of an easily available source of info on which escorts were at least in the same general area as the carrier. Say, if I model Nimitz in early 1980s fit, how could I find out which Spruance class DDs hung out with the carrier? Ship histories on the web are no help. I work not far from the Washington Navy Yard where the Naval History branch is located, so I suppose I *could* go there on a rare occasion when your Friendly Airplane Agency (FAA) gives me the time. I'm just looking for an easier way. Les ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Knot info request >> Knot info request << If my aging brain serves me, the conversion factor is 1 knot = 1.12 mph That would be a tad under 2 kilomteres per hour. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Ship Model Buiding Service and Worth of models >> Tyson Models advertises in FSM. I have thier recent catalogue and they offer a full line of ship models but they are not cheap ($900.00 to over $5000.00). I'm sure they will send you a full color catalogue. << This sort of addresses two recent issues: professional builders and the worth of a model. As someone pointed out, it is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. For most people this is: 0! Tyson probably does most of its' business with retired military who desire a high quality model of their ship/plane, whatever. An interesting observation is that most of the Tyson ship kits (at least the submarines) appear to be well-executed build-ups of Blue Water Navy kits. Interestingly, they appear to cost about 8-10X what the unbuilt kit goes for. So, depending on how much time the modeller invests, you can very roughly (Tyson would take a cut) figure out how much the builder might get to produce the finished model. Very few people can make an actual living building models. In the SubCommittee, we have a very few that do, but they usually either sell R/C kits, or do a lot of work (training films) for DOD and TV and Hollywood. The recent Learning Channel program on the Glomar Explorer recovery of the Russian Golf II Sub is a good example. The models and shooting were done by a company called Fx, owned by a SubCommittee member. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Knot info request >> Could someone tell me how fast a knot is in miles per hour? (Or for you chaps across the pond, kilometers per hour, and I'll convert that.) << Start with 1 nautical mile = 6,000 feet and everything flows nicely. Rick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: William Swan Subject: Re: Ship Model Buiding Service and Worth of models >> " The model is . . . worth what someone would pay for it. With fairly rare exceptions that means it is worth pretty close to nothing." Dr. Horvath's statement is at: http://www.PacificHistory.com/PEMMODELFILE/MASSES.HTML If that's so, then shouldn't I be able to find some of these display-quality models at low prices? << The writer of the quoted statement a PhD and JD was stating an opinion. As we all know opinions are like .....holes everbody has one. So it would appear with JDs too. This JD would suggest that with regard to a lawsuit to recover the value of a ship model destroyed such a suit would have difficulties but would not be impossible. The most obvious difficulty would be establishing the value. First one would have to establish the standard of workmanship on the model in question, then assign a value by means of finding comparable works. This could be done through retailers of finished models of like quality or custom builders. There are retailers of finished products such as Grand Armee in Palm Beach Fl or Model Expo in Hollywood Fl. The valuation problem is NOT insuperable. Collection is probably more of a problem than valuation. Sure you get a judgment, assuming you could even get service, but then HOW do you collect? The better course is to have an insurance policy on your finished “works of art” if you are going to hazard them to the public. William Swan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: knots question >> Could someone tell me how fast a knot is in miles per hour? I'm attempting to untangle the intricacies of the subject and string together an understanding of ship speeds. << Here is the information you asked for- A knot is the term for "nautical miles per hour". kn is common abbreviation (kt less common) 1 knot = 1.15 MPH 7 knots = 8 MPH for rough calculations (8.05 to be exact) A statute mile is 5,280' and is used on land and the inland waters. A nautical mile is 6076.1' and is used on the high seas and connecting tidal waters. A nautical mile = 1 minute of latitude Conversion factor is 1.15 1 statute mile = 1.609km 1 nautical mile = 1.852 km Navigation charts will always have a scale and notation on which type of mile is used for measurement. On charts, distances of less than 1 mile (nautical or statute depending on waters) are expressed in yards. Yards are always 36". As marine and aviation navigation are both tied to longitude and latitude (with 1 nautical mile being equal to 1 minute of latitude) I must assume all knots are equal. Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Dave Carter Subject: Tamiya Model Magazine For anyone who asubscribes to Tamiya magazine, the rumour is out on RMS and elsewhere that it is being discontinued.. in fact, it has been taken over by: ADH Publishing, 31 High Street, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP1 3AA Subscription Hotline is: Tel: (U.K.) 01442 236977 or Fax: 01442 236988 The blurb states that the 1st New Look issue (OCT/NOV) will be out Sept. 17th, as "Tamiya Model Magazine International". It still has Marcus Nicholls at the helm, and our matey Ian Ruscoe is scheduled for several ship and armour builds in future issues. Standards are expected to be at least as good, with all colour presentation. U.K. Subs: £13.50 per year for 6 issues, Europe Subs: £18.00 Worldwide: £25.00 They can take Credit Card payments at no extra charge. Cheers Caroline "Shiphead" Carter/nWMo and WEMblie White Ensign Models, Bookmark us for totally irregular updates at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/ FREE WORLDWIDE AIRMAIL SHIPPING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: Nautical/Statute Jim asked a "knotty" question: I'm sure others will answer this, but I couldn't resist, having had this drilled in for pilot training. A Nautical mile is the distance occupied by 1 minute of 1 degree of arc on the earth's surface: 1.15 statute miles. This is the same for ships and planes. A knot is a "Nautical mile per hour" so, 1 Knot = 1.15 mph. "31-knot Burke" sounds a lot better than "35.65 mph Burke", wouldn't you say? Cheers Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: Mystery kit A hearty thanks to all who've attempted the Kit ID! I'll try to clarify as many questions as I can remember - I only mentioned Hood because somebody scrawled it on the box - disregard. It's obviously not. I'm pretty sure the kit 1/600. I tried looking up HMS Repulse in my Oxford Ill. RN History - not even listed in ship index!! What?? I suppose it IS a possibility that I'm looking at parts from more than one kit, but I don't really get that impression... hmmm I thought the shape of the main funnel would be a give- away. Looks like a ski boot. Has a grid over it, but I don't guess that's unusual. A few more clues? One aircraft included: an unidentifiable low-wing 2-3 place twin-float plane, although if this is Prinz Eugen I suppose with a stretch of the imagination it could be an Ar196. Quite a stretch, though. Did Prinz Eugen carry the 196? If there is a catpult in this kit it is very crude - no girder detail on the only part that COULD be one. There are 12 boats, 2 large "barges", 4 launches, 4 smaller boats ans 2 very small boats. Lots of AA, in 3 sizes: 8 lg twin mounts, 4 med twin mounts, and 22 single guns. Thanks again Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: HMS ZULU, HMS PRINCE OF WALES Art Nicholson is correct: we are currently working on developing a set of 27 Royal Navy color chips, scheduled for release in late December at about the same time as the first of Alan Raven's series of books on RN camo. In the meantime, my colleague Randy Short is working on matching formulas using existing model paints. Those will probably appear on the pages of Plastic Ship Modeler. I don't know offhand whether he has formulas yet for MS2, MS3, and MS4A. In the meantime, our first USN set is selling well at Pacific Front Hobbies and we're still open to other dealer orders. We're still shooting for late September for our second USN set (1945 neutral grays, and greens and browns used by amphib forces and PTs). John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: WW1 RN BB & BC Colo(u)rs When trying to undertake color interpretation from period photos, there are more than a few caveats. As regards the apparently lighter color of HMS LION, this could simply be a factor of her being painted in a blue-tinted gray (this is stated somewhat blindly--I don't know WW1 RN colors). If that is the case, period photos would render her lighter than would a current photo of the same color. That's because the period photo would have been made on a blue-sensitive photo emulsion--either a glass plate or orthochromatic film. Because they were-blue-sensitive, they resulted in prints that rendered blues (or blue-grays) much lighter than modern panchromatic films (that render a series of grays more in keeping with the relative lightness/darkness of the colors we see). Ever notice how, in very old photos, the sky is always almost white in the print, looking like bright overcast, and that there is seldom any contrasty dark sky/fluffy clouds? That's the reason. So, LION could well have been in a relatively dark blue-tinted gray rather than cruiser gray (which may have appeared light for the same reason), and appeared light in period photos. BTW, the basis for all this rambling is a professional paper my wife and I did about ten years ago for a historic preservation (our business) conference. John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: knots CJ, Airplane drivers use knots too ! 1 knot = 1.852 kilometers per hour (1.151 miles) Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Naval Base LST Of course this is the old Lindberg kit that has been around longer than many of us. It's actual scale is debatable; someone might get away with using the highly-detailed GHQ series of wargame vehicles with it: halftracks, Shermans, etc. Would make for a nice diorama! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Cheap Bismark! In case anyone is interested, I just stopped by Piper Hobby in Chantilly, Virginia. They have a Tamiya 1/350 Bismark selling for $10 due to some missing parts. I looked in the box and think the main battery was gone but most of the rest was intact. Sounds like a good deal all the same. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Dave Carter Subject: Re: ID this ship Dear Ken, >> From your description, I suspect this may be an Italian Zara Class cruiser, which Tauro produces kits of in 1/400 Scale. << See if you can find a picture, and let us know. Cheers Dave"lighthouse"Carter/nWMo and WEMblie White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/ FREE WORLDWIDE AIRMAIL SHIPPING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Dave Carter Subject: Knot Info Request Hi Jim, A knot is 1 nautical mile per hour, a nautical mile being 1 minute of latitude, which of course means it is a convenient measure of speed when delaing with latitude and longiude and all that jazz. A nautical mile is equal to 1 1/7 Statute Miles, and therefore a Knot is 1 1/7 statute miles per hour. Air navigation is also computed with references to latitude and longitude and therefore an air knot is excatly the same as a sea knot. Hope you are now more nautically illuminated! Cheers Dave"lighthouse"Carter/nWMo and WEMblie... pilot, sailor and equally capable of getting lost in either element... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Knots vs. miles per hour >> Could someone tell me how fast a knot is in miles per hour? (Or for you chaps across the pond, kilometers per hour, and I'll convert that.) Also, is air speed knots the same as water speed knots? I'm attempting to untangle the intricacies of the subject and string together an understanding of ship speeds, but am not trying to start a thread or tie up the list. << As a professional pilot and an active small craft sailor I can tell you with some certainty that airspeed and water speed in knots are the same value, and that one knot equals 1.15 miles per hour. Expressed in larger figures, 100 knots equal 115 miles per hour. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Paul O'Reilly" Subject: KNOT Conversion I believe the ratio is 66 nautical miles equals 76 statute miles equals 122 kilometers. Therefore, 66 knots equals 76 mph equals 122 kph. A knot of airspeed is the same as a knot of surface speed. Paul O'Reilly ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Denis G. Campbell" Subject: Knots of speed JG asked about the speed in knots as compared to speed in land (statute) miles per hour - and, JG PLEASE don't ever say knots per hour as some of the talking heads on TV do sometimes. A speed of 1 knot is a speed which will cover the distance of 1 minute of lattitude in one hour. That distance, 1 minute of lattitude, is 1 nautical mile or 6076 feet so a speed of 1 knot is approx 1.15 mph (and if you want to use kilometers etc., convert from feet and miles which is the origin -aw what the heck, a nautical mile is 1.853 km). However, I digress. A speed of 60 knots covers 1 degree of lattitude (60 minutes) in one hour and is about 69 mph. And a knot is a knot is a knot whether you are in a rowboat, battleship, submarine aeroplane or hot air balloon. It measures a navigational function over the surface of the earth and is based on degrees and trigonometry as they apply to a globe. I lived with this most of my life, working in the airline industry, but am retired now and am ashamed to say I had to look it up. However, I still keep my digital watch on 24hour time - drives some of my friends crazy. Denis Campbell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Specs on the LST model Dear Shipbuilders, The LST model that we sell is a 2 Boat Davit standard WWII fit. The Model is 15" long 3" inches wide and 6" from the top of the mast to the bottom of the keel. For the 50th anniversary of D-Day we came out with the kit it is an old Lindberg Kit. Lindberg by the way has a vast selection of old Landing Craft molds.LSD's, LST's LCVP's LCI's and more. They have some of the better and worse ship molds, I believe more better than bad also some Coast Guard molds too. The LST kit comes with all decals for all LST's this kit can be modified for Korean and Vietnam Era ships. It is made out of plactic. The bow doors do not open but I've seen modelers open them. The Naval Base also sells CnC tanks, trucks, jeeps, people and 1/2 tracks to build a fuller diplay. The CnC stuff is 1/285 scale the ship is 1/245 scale the difference is not noticeable. I have less than 100 kits left after that they will go into decommissioning probably forever. The LST is 15.95 and 5.00 shipping you can order at our web site: http://www.navalbasehobbies.com Thanks for listening, Shaya ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Clements Subject: POW References >> Also I'd like to be pointed at some good POW refs. This looks like a great kit, but I don't know from POW kits. Is it? Is there a standard kit for this ship? A standard reference book? << >> Warship, Volume III has a four part article on the King George V class battleships. Since the PoW had such a short life, it is covered in only the first two articles. There is another book about the KGV class but I haven't seen it anywhere for quite some time. << Perhaps the other book referred to is the Ensign series volume 1 by Alan Raven, now long out of print but if you can find someone with a copy it has a camouflage plan which fits the Tamiya kit and photos. Otherwise there are good plans of other class members in Raven & Roberts British Battleships of WW2 which would be useful. And now for something completely different - a tale of hopes dashed. I have just returned from holiday in Slovenia. One day we parked the car in Ljubljana, the capital of this small but very beautiful country, and when I got out I realised we were right outside a model shop. Thinking that there can't be too many of those in the Balkans, I looked in the window and was amazed to see a well made up Heller Richelieu in a glass case. Bearing in mind the very limited opportunities to buy any Heller kits in the UK, and the reputation of this particular one, you will not be surprised that as soon as I had cashed another travellers cheque we were back in the shop. Language was a problem, but it soon became apparent by indicating the model in the window, pointing to the name Heller on other non-nautical kits and so on that the owner hadn't any such ships in stock, didn't know when he might have, and thought that buying a kit in Slovenia when there must be better shops in the UK somewhat eccentric anyway. So alas, no Richelieu to add to my mounting pile of unmade kits. John Clements ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume