Subject: SMML05/09/98VOL293 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:03:01 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules 2: re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules 3: The SMML and how it's being run 4: Re: SMML Rules 5: Re: New models 6: The Airfix Vote Master Speaks 7: Re: Rules 8: Folded Wings in 1/350 9: RE: JMSDF Vessels in Seattle 10: Re: HMS Ariadne 11: high speed transport, APD 12: Airfix Petition, Nausea, and SMML Rules 13: Re: Greg's comments. 14: Campbelltown deck colors 15: Re: Listmaster's rules...this is YOUR list, Greg, and we should share it with YOUR rules!! 16: Re: HST Photos 17: Tamiya 1/350 Essex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: FS 1/700 Kits 2: Note from Listmaster - Thanks, and Lets move on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Senkan@aol.com Subject: Re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules >> I started this list, and donate three hrs a day, EVERYDAY, to it, but I don't feel I can discuss one of my Favorite subjects (Yamato) here, Is that fair? << The main reason I like your email is because I love Yamato. When I see a Yamato topic I automatically scroll down and read that first. Sorry if other people don't like the topic. Maybe they can start their own ship model letter. Ken Hamilton P.S. Greg, If you ever want to talk about Yamato and don't feel you can do it in here...drop me an email. I'm always into Yamato..just can't get enough of her :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Denis G. Campbell" Subject: Re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules Hooray, Greg Agree 100%. Could'nt have said it better myself. Keep all the discussions going -and the animosity down. Denis Campbell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Terry Sumner" Subject: The SMML and how it's being run Greg, 2 comments here on this subject..... 1. You're doing a great job! 2. Since YOU are the one who started this forum, and are the one who devotes 3 hours a day to this wondeful labor of love.....do it your own way. Upon seeing a message header describing a subject he doesn't wish to bother with, any subscriber may simply do as you stated...just scroll past it. I personnally love the way this list works and I LOVE the fact that flame wars are non-existant! Very refreshing! Terry Sumner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML Rules >> I hope you see where I am coming from here, If anybody feels the need to challenge my ruling here, you may do so. All you have to do is raise your question on the list, and put it to a vote. << Folks- Please read Greg's message and take it to heart. You don't have to read posts that don't interest you. More to the point, Greg spends some of his valuable time to make SMML available to the rest of us. Please don't give him a hard time; he is doing a superb job, and deserves our thanks and support. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: New models >> Rusty! What's it going to take to find out what new models are on the ways! Maybe a little amateur bribery or freindly extortion!! << Dave, I'm sorry but I don't have any magic when it comes to new model releases. I tell you what I have been told by the manufacturers I talk to. Here's something different. Mike Bishop (MB Models) told me about a year ago he was working the masters to the USS Ronald Reagan! I don't know what the status is, but that's a big model and certanly won't come cheap. No doubt he will make the different aircraft to go with it which will give us the oppertunity to purchase them. I also mentioned here that Viking Models is produceing a 1/700 Texas after the success with the 1/350 scale version. They are also working on a 1/350 scale New York to accompany the Texas. I also recieved a responce from my custom photo-etching notice from a fella in China. He is going to produce a line of 1/700 scale modern warsips (about time). The subjects he mentioned were Soviet warships (Slava class missile cruiser, Krivak class and several others I can't recall). I suggested a Moskva class. If and when I hear anything for sure I'll post it here and I'll surely include it in my Ship and Tips column in the IPMS(USA) Journal. The reason I don't want to spill the beans about Flagships upcoming kit and future kits is I don't want someone to issue these kits first. Unfortunatly, I don't do Flagship as a full time business so I work on the masters a few hours in the evening. The at Viking will be doing the casting and when I mentioned it to them they were very exited and wanted a partnership to do the entire series with Flagship. Sorry to ramble. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: The Airfix Vote Master Speaks As the individual who volunteered to be the Airfix vote master, I feel that I must take a moment of your time to say a few things: First - I respect everybody's opinion here in the SMML. This is a great tool and forum for shipmodelers to gather from around the world to chat about something that we all enjoy and to share info, help and tips. I have made some "friends" via this forum and I look forward to it every day. We should all give thanks to Greg Lee for taking time each day (and to his spouse for helping out and being very supportive) to bring this great medium of free speech and info to all of us. Secondly - The Airfix vote and petition is an attempt to let the management of a fine company know that there are people out there that would buy their 1/600 ship models if they re-release some of the older kits and would gladly buy a new kit if they so choose to issue one. This may never happen or it may take some time if it did. Either way it will not hurt to have our opinions be made known to Airfix. I ask that anyone who is even remotely interested in seeing a new Airfix kit or to see an old kit re-issued to please send me your votes (3 for new kits and 3 for re-issues) plus your name and the city, state/province/country of residence for the petition. Since it is e-mail, it will only take a minute of your time and virtually no expense. I am volunteering my time and energy to collect and compile these votes and petition and it will be my expense to mail the results and the petition to Airfix. So please vote and send them to me at mailto:felix.bustelo@ny.frb.org Thirdly - A modeller is ANYONE who can take a kit or a piece of wood or anything and make it into something that they are pleased with. I am by no means an expert modeller, but I am happy with the projects that I have completed so far and at the few model festivals that I have displayed my work, I have received some very positive feedback. I strive to build on my mistakes and add to my experience with each successive project. The only criticism that one modeller should give a fellow modeller should be constructive and not destructive. Thanks for your time and please vote if you haven't already Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: Rules Greg - I for one heartily endorse your "ruling." Buy a mouse with a scroll wheel on it! The Airfix petition wasn't a thread that particularly interested me, but I had no "problem" with it. I agree that "topics" shouldn't be subjected to "attack", but see your dilemma here. E-mail is a little too "easy" - you flare out a comment, hit "send", and it's done. Not like a letter, where you have time to reconsider. I'm sure we've all experienced "sender's remorse", but these groups are more like spoken discussions - you've got to trust that they will be self-regulatory to a large extent. A suggestion here is for people just to consider whether or not the comment will be useful to the GROUP, not just yourself. And then wait 15 minutes before responding. I suspect there are two elements that contribute to redundant threads (i.e. knots - although the later posts contained some fascinating qualifications): 1) people who don't read SMML every day and don't know what's already been said, and 2) we all like to show off what we know! This last is not so bad - when someone prefaces the 34th (yawn) post about knots with the comment - "I tought navigation at Cherry Point" or some such, it adds a lot of depth to the group!! All of a sudden I'm interested again and these events have led to lasting "e-mail friendships." So, I sympathize. Censorship is a really tough call, becuase so much is in the "details." Finally, I just want to say this is a really great group. You do a super job, and the amount of expertise here is staggering. Thank you, Greg and all! Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Folded Wings in 1/350 A bit back someone mentioned that they wished the aircraft that came with the Tom's Modelworks Essex had folding wings. Liberty Models, the Tom's sub-contractor that supplies the aircraft, has the same models available as folded-wing versions. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: Re: JMSDF Vessels in Seattle Destroyers Kirishima (new Kongo class DDG), Shirane, Murusame and Harusame (thier newst DDGs), and oiler Towada visited Seattle this past week, and were open to the public (except Towada). Friend and fellow modeler Quinn Bracken and I were able to visit them on 3 different occasions, and were able to take several rolls of photos, which we hope to have developed soon. I don't think any other Navy keeps their ships in such an immaculate state; all look as if they were built yesterday. The crews and officers are very friendly and accomodating; the exec of the Murasame took Quinn, when he visited alone on Tuesday, for a personal tour of the ship, then out to lunch on the wharf. When the pictures are developed, we will be sending a set to Rob Mackie to publish on his WARSHIP website. We are possibly thinking also of making sets available to modelers at a modest cost. Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: HMS Ariadne "Warship 1994" has an article on the ABDIEL class by Richard Wright. In it he states that "Ariadne finished the war with three US twin 40mm in place of the original 40mm Hazemeyer mountings. While precise details are lacking it seems likely that these were fitted in the US early in 1944, ....." - sadly he makes no mention of any directors! He also states that she had her remaining five twin 20mm converted to single 40mm "boffins" at Sydney at the end of the war. The article has a photo of her from the port quarter in September 1943, still carrying 40mm Hazemeyer mountings. She has a camouflage scheme nearly identical to that of Apollo on completion, also shown in the article (at least on the port side - the other is not shown). Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ernst-Bernhard Kayser Subject: high speed transport, APD Hi folks, In a book about american destroyer escorts of world war 2 I found pictures of socalled high speed transports (APDs). I new right away, these are the ships I would like to have a 1/350 model of. They are way cool with their cranes, landing crafts, and the green jungle camouflage. I did a little research on the internet to find kits, plans, books about my subject. The results were meager. I guess I'll have to scratch build. Now, here are some questions to the expert who might be out there: (1) Is there a 1/350 kit on the market? The only kit I have heard of is a 1/700 (2) Are there any plans available for the Buckley conversion (the ships with the tall bridge - my favourites). I know, Floating drydock sells a plan for a Crosley class ship (low bridge) (3) Does anybody know how these ships operated? Especially, were the landing crafts fully loaded (with marines, trucks etc.) when launched from their davids, or rather were they empty and loaded with the help of the big crane once afloat? Besides the satisfaction to understand what one is modelling this might make a nice diorama scene. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bernhard Kayser -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Airfix Petition, Nausea, and SMML Rules Once again, I agree with Greg completely! While there have been a number of discussions that I have had no particular interest in, I do have the option of scrolling past them. The wonderful way that Greg has added a table of contents to the list really helps. Whether the topics are knots, Flowers, wish/want lists or whatever, we are free to read or not read as we see fit. Personally, I find the information contained in this list invaluable and greatly appreciate the friendly banter (and occasional humour) that fills in between the really useful parts. When there seems to be an overload on a particular subject, it is only because it hit a chord (or nerve) among the readers. I know that there are a number of vendors and manufacturers that read the list (OK, maybe not the big guys, but the good guys who listen!). This is a great way to let them know what we are looking for. And I for one like finding out which ships other people like. It is, after all, just a hobby for most of us. Greg, thanks for the great work and all the effort! It is truly appreciated! Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Greg's comments. Since you are the SMML master, clearly you get to do whatever you want. It's your list and you make the rules. I'd like to suggest, however that you exercise some editorial discretion over how many times you repeat answers to a question. I cannot imagine that very many people wanted to read the 3 zillion answers about "knots." Even the guy who asked the question must have lost interest. There were several times that I almost wrote and begged for it to stop. After a short time, the answers got so repetitive that I began to get nauseous. Now of course the easy solution for the reader is to page down and ignore the text, but that's what gets one ill. I cannot imagine that anyone would complain if, after YOU feel that the issue has been beaten to death, you simply announce that you are not going to print anymore letters on the subject. I think that repetitive subjects, while they may well fall well within the right of free speech etc. etc. nevertheless diminishes the value and interest that the SMML generates. After a while folks begin to lose interest because they are tired of reading the same old stuff day after day. There are a lot of subjects on SMML that hold no interest for me. That's ok. But to be bombarded with ad nauseum, that's overkill. All of us read newspapers and magazines. The folks who publish those know that you don't print 30 letters to the editor about the same subject. Variety is critical. And if it isn't provided, eventually readers drop off until the only folks left are the ones interested in one thing. It may be that you could devote every issue of every SMML for the next month only to YAMATO lovers. After the month is up, will there be anyone else left to read or contribute? Does that really make for a better SMML? I hope that you'll take these comments in the spirit that they are offered. Not as criticism. You're doing a fabulous job. I'd just like to see the SMML be as broad based as possible. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Campbelltown deck colors I have been working on a set of USS Buchanan/HMS Campbelltown models showing the Buchanan as launched, as converted to the Campbelltown, and as modified for the St. Nazierre raid. my question has to do with what color to paint the decks for the last two incarnations. Any thoughts there? I checked Alan Raven's article in PSM and the Anatomy of the Ship, But since this was a former USN ship and then highly modified for a special mission I think that maybe it didn't have a standard paint scheme. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: Re: Listmaster's rules...this is YOUR list, Greg, and we should share it with YOUR rules!! >> From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Airfix Petition, Nausea, and SMML Rules. SMML is for EVERYBODY. I hope you see where I am coming from here, If anybody feels the need to challenge my ruling here, you may do so. All you have to do is raise your question on the list, and put it to a vote. << Hello Greg, and all.... Amen to every word. Sure, we all want our own interests to be the ones everyone else is interested in as well, but it just ain't so!! We all can certainly scroll past any threads or postings in which we aren't interested. Bill Cosby, the famous American comedian was asked "What is your recipe for success in life?" He thought briefly, and with his usual marvelous wit said "I don't know the recipe for success, but the recipe for failure is to try and please EVERYONE....!!!" You're doing a GREAT job on all fronts....keep it up!! By the way... how IS that big ol' YAMATO coming along, anyway? He's another idea for a thread.....What is in the KIT STASH? I bet Joe Reyna has more than a few unbuilt delights in his...and I know I sure as hell do.... I'll post mine on a separate posting tomorrow when I have more time.. Eric Roth, Minden, Ontario, CANADA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: HST Photos I just completed a very boring two weeks of annual active duty, but last Friday I was in Norfolk, VA, after Hurricane Bonnie had passed through. The fleet was back in port soon after it had sortied to avoid the storm and I stopped by the piers to photograph the new USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75). Got about two dozen shots of the starboard side and fantail (even though I left my good camera at home). The ship has a strange arrangement of pipes and black cylinders above the stern waterline; anyone know what these are for? The adjacent pier was closed, so I was unable to get any decent close-up photos of the port side; contact me if interested in borrowing negatives or ordering prints at a minimal cost. I also got a few shots of the island and superstructure of the Enterprise ("Big E" CVN 65) across the pier from the HST. Looking a bit worse the wear for her age, I must say! (Running rust and so on...) Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: RCM612@prodigy.net Subject: Tamiya 1/350 Essex First, the good news: Tamiya is releasing a 1/350 scale Essex. The manager of the local hobby shop called Tamiya's US office (its only about 5 miles from here) to inquire, and was told that the Essex is in the works, and that they are planning to release it soon. Now, the bad news: they wouldn't give her any kind of a release date. You know what that means - we could be waiting for along time. They did promise to send her a press release when the model comes out, though. Hope this helps. Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dbrown303@aol.com Subject: FS 1/700 Kits Hello Everyone I have for sale over 40 1/700 scale kits including Kaga, Akagi, Kiev, Junyo, and a whole fleet of other BB, cruisers, destoyers, IJN subs - and many aircraft and skywave accessory sets (docks, bldgs etc) as well. Also have some Airfix 1/600 for sale (Devonshire, HMSTiger). If interested please email me and I'll send you a list. I was going to sell all on Ebay but figured I'd give everyone here a chance first. Would like to sell as a lot, or a least in large groups. Everything is in good shape - its just "too small". Thanks for reading, Derek Brown Denver, CO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Thanks, and Lets move on. Hi All, Once again, I am overwhelmed by the support I have received from readers. I would like to say thanks to everybody who mailed in on the list, and privately. A few things I would like to clear up: Whilst I did start the list, and I am moderator, I don't feel SMML is solely mine, because without everybody here, there would be no SMML - it's OURS! Rules : Well, I prefer to call them guidelines. Net Etiquette, Good Faith, Answering calls for help and quenching/nurturing the thirst for knowledge, and for those of you who can make a $ along the way, all well and good, theres no need for anymore - Its nothing personal, just relax, escape, and most of all ENJOY! (Only make waves if your building a waterline diorama:-) Paul Jacobs Wrote: >> All of us read newspapers and magazines. The folks who publish those know that you don't print 30 letters to the editor about the same subject. Variety is critical. And if it isn't provided, eventually readers drop off until the only folks left are the ones interested in one thing. It may be that you could devote every issue of every SMML for the next month only to YAMATO lovers. After the month is up, will there be anyone else left to read or contribute? Does that really make for a better SMML? << The difference is, I am not in this to SELL. SMML is not about me making money and keeping up circulation, it doesn't work that way. I do this because I can, and I enjoy it, and I will continue to do so until I don't, regardless of numbers, and when I have had enough, I will pass SMML along to someone else. If a group of people want to talk Yamato for a month, so be it, It doesnt stop another group of people discussing something else, we can have as many threads going as we want here, and if your not interested in one, move on to the next. If the list is a little flat for any SMML reader, they can always start their own thread, all they have to do is send a post. Once again, thanks to everybody. Lets put this behind us now, and move on. We all have kits to build, so get to it, and lets talk about those problems for a while. Greg (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume