Subject: SMML06/09/98VOL294 Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:43:54 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: MS 21 and Floquil Paints 2: Re: BUCHANAN/CAMPBELTOWN 3: Campbelltown deck colors 4: high speed transport, APD 5: DKM Ids 6: whats in the [kit] stash? 7: Knots ? What knots ??? 8: Mea Culpa? 9: Re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules 10: Re: 1/350 scale Essex 11: Tamyia 1/350 scale enterprise 12: Buckley Class Conversion 13: APA's -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Looking for assistance 2: USS Oregon City CA122 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Sheridan Subject: MS 21 and Floquil Paints I am building the 1/350th scale BWN USS Oakland (excellent model BTW) and the painting diagram calls for a MS21 paint scheme (Horizontal Surfaces Deck Blue, Vertical Surfaces Sea Blue). I purchased the Floquil Marine paints Deck Blue and Sea Blue. The Deck Blue looks o.k. but the Sea Blue looks like a dark gray instead of a blue'ish color. Has anyone used the floquil Sea Blue ?!?!? Is the color correct or did I get a bum bottle ?!?!? BTW, I plan on adding 10% white to both colors to create the correc scale effect. Is this the correct adjustment for 1/350th ?!?!? FYI, I will give my personal review of the BWN Oakland in another message. John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: BUCHANAN/CAMPBELTOWN With regards Duane's question on the color scheme of BUCHANAN/CAMPBELTOWN - while in pre-St. Nazaire service with the RN, she was painted in one of the normal Admiralty disruptive patterns. If you take a look at Arnold Hague's The Towns, you find photos of a number of her sisters in a similar pattern. When the RN converted her for the raid, they went to great lengths to simulate a German MOWE class torpedo boat. How far did they go to imitate known colors? I don't know for sure and can only offer a SWAG: I doubt they went to the trouble of getting actual German paint. Since this was a night raid, they probably weren't too concerned about someone being able to detect color differences. The few pictures of the converted ship taken at the dockyard which show closeups of the deck and superstructure suggest that the tone of the paints was similar. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Campbelltown deck colors Hi Duane, >> I have been working on a set of USS Buchanan/HMS Campbelltown models showing the Buchanan as launched, as converted to the Campbelltown, and as modified for the St. Nazierre raid. my question has to do with what color to paint the decks for the last two incarnations. Any thoughts there? I checked Alan Raven's article in PSM and the Anatomy of the Ship, But since this was a former USN ship and then highly modified for a special mission I think that maybe it didn't have a standard paint scheme. << When I did the research for the kit of HMS Campbelltown as she looked during the St. Nazaire raid (Anatomy of the Ship, PSM, and the book on the raid), I found that she was painted in Mountbatten Pink. Since there are two different shades of this, there's a problem in discovering which shade it was. But the decks are a different color than the sides, so my guess is that for the raid the decks would have been MS 1 or 507A (very dark gray), since these were the common colors used during the time on steel decks. The same would hold true for the period immediately prior to the raid, since it seems that she wore a Western Approaches scheme during her service with the RN. Or at least that's my best guess. Jon Warneke Iron Shipwrights -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: high speed transport, APD Hi Ernst, >> in a book about american destroyer escorts of world war 2 I found pictures of socalled high speed transports (APDs). I new right away, these are the ships I would like to have a 1/350 model of. They are way cool with their cranes, landing crafts, and the green jungle camouflage. I did a little research on the internet to find kits, plans, books about my subject. The results were meager. I guess I'll have to scratch build. Now, here are some questions to the expert who might be out there: (1) Is there a 1/350 kit on the market? The only kit I have heard of is a 1/700 << Accurate Image Models will be releasing two classes of APD's in about two months or so. The classes are the APD 1 class (based off the flush deck DD's like USS Ward) and the APD 37 class (the high bridge DE conversion). The patterns have been completed, and the work on making the duplicate parts and getting the photoetch completed are in process. The kits will include the master pattern for the Ms. 31L camo scheme. >> (2) Are there any plans available for the Buckley conversion (the ships with the tall bridge - my favourites). I know, Floating drydock sells a plan for a Crosley class ship (low bridge) << I received plans for both types of APD based on the DE hulls, but I'm not sure where they came from since I got them second hand. They are for both the high bridge and low bridge units. >> (3) Does anybody know how these ships operated? Especially, were the landing crafts fully loaded (with marines, trucks etc.) when launched from their davids, or rather were they empty and loaded with the help of the big crane once afloat? Besides the satisfaction to understand what one is modelling this might make a nice diorama scene. << The ships, from what I've read, served two functions. Their primary one was as a transport for a reinforced company of Marines or UDT swimmers to provide scouting functions. The secondary one was as AA and ASW support for amphibious forces en route to their objective. All units still carried depth charge racks on the fantail, and the APD 1 class had four sets of DC throwers, two to the side. As for deploying the LCVP's on the APD 37 class, they were probably lowered first and then loaded, since the LCVP's were carried nested, whereas on the APD 1 class each LCPL had it's own david, and could have been loaded prior to deployment. However, this is a best guess on my part. Jon Warneke Iron Shipwrights -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mark Sloan Subject: DKM Ids I recently bought an interesting little piece of 1/700 resin made by PT Dockyard and sold by Brookhurst Hobbies. It's a small German craft, looks like a barge, and is called an AFP, Type C. I think that it's one of the landing barges that I read about in Admiral Ruge's book, but I'm not sure. Can anyone help? More importantly, could you give me a reference? The only DKM reference I have is Taylor's small book which hardly deals with any small or auxiliary craft. Thanks in advance, Mark Sloan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ed Grune Subject: whats in the [kit] stash? Good morning! With the recent postings about the Japanese fleet's visit to Seattle and the mention of "whats in the [kit] stash" -- I went and looked. Lo-and-behold, I have a DDG Kirishima. Once the photos get posted, I may have to open the plastic bag and work on it. Does anyone sell an etched latice mast for this class? A quick look at the rest of the stash - Tamiya Fletcher 1/350 and 1/700 PitRoad Fletcher Roundbridge -2packs 1/700 Pitroad Gato-2packs 1/700 Tamiya Gato remold of the PitRoad Gato PitRoad Rudderow 2-pack 1/700 PitRoad Krivak I 1/700 PitRoad Charles Adams 1/700 PitRoad SanDiego 1/700 PitRoad Spruance 1/700 PitRoad Fletcher class - Callaghan 1/700 Tamiya Kiso cruiser (half built) 1/700 Tamiya Nelson 1/700 Tamiya Hornet 1/700 Italieri Hood 1/700 ARII Ticonderoga (CG) 1/700 ARII John Rodgers 1/700 Minicraft Ticonderoga 1/700 Testors Abe Lincoln 1/700 Testors Adm Kuznetzov 1/700 AFV Knox 1/700 DML Saipan 1/700 DML Ingersoll 1/350 DML Ohio 1/350 & 1/700 (Testors) DML Los Angeles 1/350 & 1/700 (Testors) Revell Montrose & Randall APA box scale Classic Warships Gato/Balao 1/350 Toms Gato 1/350 Classic Warships APD 1/700 Revell Ward box Revell "Campbelltown" box There's more hidden in there, I can see it. I just can't read the labels. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Nowfel Leulliot Subject: Knots ? What knots ??? Hello, Sorry I seem to have missed an episode. What's all the problem about the knots and Airfix wish list threads ? Neither of them interested me in the least (Airfix is fine but 1/600th isn't my scale of choice) and it didn't bother me one bit. Seriously, I didn't even _notice_ the zillion answers to the knots question because I just hit ctrl-F and jumped to the topics that interest me. I really don't understand why it's such a big deal. There's plenty enough stuff for everyone. Cheers, Nowfel Leulliot (who will start a truly unending thread / soliloquy about the French navy in Indochina if he sees too many Yamato posts. And I'll narrow it down to Harbour Defence Motor Launches since it's seagoing vessels only ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Mea Culpa? Dear Group, The first thing I do every morning is make a cup of coffee and download SMML. It gets my tired brain cells up to speed. Greg deserves all the accolades we can heap upon him. As originator of the original "knot" posting, and more recently, the "anti-wishlist" posting, and having read Greg's editorial on the fallout of said postings, I feel a response is in order. I learned a lot about knots, as I'm sure everyone did. It may have gone on too long, but on the other hand, many SMML readers who normally remain silent emerged to throw in their two cents on the subject. This is good. On the other hand, it seems I offended Tom, Dick, and maybe Harry as well with the other post. Like Ken Durling said today, sometimes it is better to write the message and then wait a long while to post it. Perhaps I should have, but its too late now. I agree that any topic is valid and if someone doesn't like it, they should skip over it. But perhaps this thinking should also apply to the occasional rant that might surface. I think there is a place for emotional outbursts, as opposed to outright flames, and that they can provide a provocativeness and generate interest otherwise missing from the list. Just look at what resulted from this one, a rant in general against a conceptual trend creates a need to overhaul the "rules"! I fear that this list will become too "nice" as a result to too many frontal labotomies. I've posted some humorous messages such as "sewing the hull", Yamato dreaming, Admiral G stuff, too. I'm trying to contribute interesting material. But that may also have to include the occasional dose of harsh medicine. I just hope some of you are able to take it without wringing your hands to the list master. And in the future, if you feel I've, or others, have crossed the line, I suggest you take it up personally with the offender- Greg is too busy already to serve as Ombudsman. I agree this is just a hobby, and I should lighten up. Good idea. I mean, in the overall scheme of things, modelling is pretty meaningless. The ONLY important thing is that the modeller thoroughly enjoy himself in the time that he has to work on his hobby. If this means sticking toothpicks in a bar of soap and calling it Bismark, then so be it. Regards, JG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mike Subject: Re: airfix petion, nausea and SMML rules >> I started this list, and donate three hrs a day, EVERYDAY, to it, but I don't feel I can discuss one of my Favorite subjects (Yamato) here, Is that fair? << >> The main reason I like your email is because I love Yamato. When I see a Yamato topic I automatically scroll down and read that first. Sorry if other people don't like the topic. Maybe they can start their own ship model letter. << I'll second that. Although I'm not the rabid, fanatic Yamatoholic that Greg is, any WWII battlewagon (and cruiser, and flattop, and destroyer, etc., etc.) is an interesting topic to me. Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mike Subject: Re: 1/350 scale Essex >> First, the good news: Tamiya is releasing a 1/350 scale Essex. The manager of the local hobby shop called Tamiya's US office (its only about 5 miles from here) to inquire, and was told that the Essex is in the works, and that they are planning to release it soon. << If I may quote Fred Flintstone---EEEEEEEEEyabbadabbadoooooooo!!! Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ian Patrick Johnson Subject: Re: Tamyia 1/350 scale enterprise I am building the tamyia 1/350 scale enterprise and am curious if anyone knows where I could pick up some recent photographs of the ship. I'm especially interested in photos of the ship durring launch and recover sequences. Also does anyone have any tips about scratchbuilding with brass. One last question, is there any resin or brass sea sparrow launchers or vulcan cannons for my enterprise? This kit is my first major undertaking so I would appreciate any tips anybody could think of. As far as the conversation concerning what we're supposed to be doing here, we're supposed to be sharing our enthusiasm about the hobby. For some certain aspects are more interesting than others, but we must keep in mind that this should be a friendly place to share ideas and help those of us, like myself, who are struggling to become better modlers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RVanda1839@aol.com Subject: Buckley Class Conversion If my other letter on the APAs was not what you were looking for then here is what I found on the Buckley Class conversion to APD. During the construction of the the Buckley class DEs (and other DEs) six hulls (DE-668 to 673) were modified as fast transports and numbered APD 69-74. This involved the adding of extra accommodations amidships at forecastle deck level and davits for four landing craft assault (LCA). They were armed with a 5-in DP forward and 3 twin 40mm and could carry 162 troops. In 1944-45 40 more of the DEs of this class were convereted. The latter 40 were armed with 2 single 5-in DP vice the 3-in and some had 4 single 40-mm Bofors mounted amidships to cope with kamikazes. Several were also convereted to Radar Pickets. I can provide the names and numbers if anyone wishes. At least one other class of DEs (Rudderow class) also had APD conversions, As of 1975 there were 2 still in the fleet as LPRs (Amphibious Transport (Small)). There were Balduck LPR-132 (ex-DE-716) and Begor LPR-127 (ex-DE-711). Hope this helps somemore. Rich V. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: RVanda1839@aol.com Subject: APA's On the question of APAs. Looking through "The Ships & Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet" 10th edition (1975) I was able to find some info on APAs. APA later changed to LPA stood for Amphibious Transport. In 1975 there were 3 left in the active US fleet; USS Francis Marion (LPA-249) and USS Paul Revere (LPA-248) on C4-S-1A hulls at 564 ft in length; and the USS Bexar (LPA-237) on a VC2-S-AP5 hull at 455 ft in length. A handfull of each class were in MarAd in 1975 but best bets are they have been scraped by now. A good source of information and pictures (color) is the movie "Away All Boats" staring Jeff Chandler. It is the story of the USS Balinda (actually the USS Randall) as she makes her way through the Pacific Island Campaign of WWII. There are lots of scenes of decks and boats. Loading of the landing craft would have been completed after the boats were lowered into the water. Then the Marines and soldiers would go over the side of the transport into the landing craft via cargo net ladders. Any equipment (jeeps, bulldozers) would be lowered into the boat by crane. These APAs were the backbone of the amphibious forces. One model I do know of is the USS Randall by Revell. It is a box scale and was recently re-released (originally a 1950s kit). Several of the mail order compaines on this list should carry it. In my opinion this would make a beautiful diorama with the landing craft being lowered into the water and others circling around. This from the heart of a Marine. If you attack this project please keep us informed. Good Luck and Semper Fi! Rich V. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Erskine, Jay" Subject: Looking for assistance I'm looking for someone in the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas area who can assist me in finishing up my CO2-airbrush setup, I have the tank and the airbrush, however I still need the all important regulator and fittings. Please feel free to emaill me at balor@airmail.net Thanks!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JimLacey@aol.com Subject: USS Oregon City CA122 I am looking for a model of the subject and would appreciate any information in this regard. Please e-mail me "the-lone-eagle-soars@juno.com" Thank you for your cooperation. Jim Lacey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume