Subject: SMML07/09/98VOL295 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:56:52 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tacwr.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Tamiya Fletcher, Repulse to Renown 2: Re: APAs, etc. 3: Re: USS Atlanta Questions 4: CO2-airbrush setup 5: whats in the [kit] stash? 6: History Q - channel dash 7: Mr. Gordon's Mea Culpa. 8: APAs 9: Recent photos of the Enterprise 10: Re: Nowfels comments: 11: Re: AFP, Type C 12: Re: Jim Gordon's Mea Culpa 13: Tamiya Essex 14: Re: Ms21 and Floquil Paints 15: Re: APDs 16: Re: APAs 17: Pit Road IJN Colors 18: Re: Air tank & regulator Info. 19: Tamiya kits, decal application and more! 20: Kits in the stash...alphabetically, sort of... 21: DKM IDs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: UPDATED AIRSTRIKE 700 pages and WEM 1/700 ASKOLD pics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MODELLERS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Tamiya Fletcher, Repulse to Renown Hi List, I'm a bit late on both of these, but here goes anyway.... On the Tamiya kit being a good one for beginners, I would agree in general, but I'd also point out that a friend of mine (who's a good shipmodeler) recently finished the kit with the GMM set and it took a fair amount of work, in part because the GMM set has you move some of the molded-on chocks that are in the wrong place and scratchbuild some other parts to go with the GMM brass. Not that those things are that hard to do, but I'm not sure they're for beginners. Regarding converting the Airfix Repulse to the Renown (as rebuilt, I presume), I think that would take a fair amount of work. For instance, you'd have to modify the belt and bulges (the Renown's was a deck lower and a different shape), and you'd have to make ten twin 4.5" mounts (that no one currently makes in 1/600 scale). You'd also have to put on a new bridge and forward superstructure, which you could borrow in part (there were some diffferences) from an Airfix King George V. Someone just needs to make a kit of the Renown, though I gather from what's been said recently that Airfix is not a likely candidate. Art Nicholson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2) From: Hess1962@aol.com Subject: Re: APAs, etc. As one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, I endured endless hours of cargo net drill, wherein yours truly and other grunts scaled and descended cargo net mockups in the sodden Carolina and tidewater Virginia summers...the LCVPs ("Peter boats") were NOT loaded prior to debarkation; you made your way, via the aforementioned net, from the pitching deck of an APA (or other such craft) to the bobbing little LCVPs below, trying not to get crunched between said vessels, all the while laden with pack, helmet, weapon(s), etc., and taking care to keep your grip on the VERTICAL risers lest someone trample your hands. FYI, my name is "David"...those funny little upside-down-"J"-shaped jobbies on decks are called "davits". Keep up the good work, Greg...and remember "Illegitimum non est carborundum", which can be loosely translated as "don't let the b------s get you down"! Dave Hess, Kalamazoo MI USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Atlanta Questions Hi List, I'm trying to finish up the GS Atlanta in 1/350, and have a few questions (that will probably demonstrate my ingorance more than anything else). The Atlanta has two flagbags on each side of her forward superstructure (below the foremast) and two flagbags on the after superstructure (aft of the mainmast). Does anyone know how many halyards go into each flagbag from the yardarms of the masts? Are there any really good sources for rigging warships of this century? There are lots of sources for rigging sailing ships, but that doesn't help much. I added a gaff to the mainmast for the flag (ensign), and it looks like a line runs to the after superstructure near the two flag bags. Any idea exactly where it runs to? The Atlanta has a number of "rope reels" and other reels, I presume for hoses (though I don't know). Should the ropes or hoses on those reels be painted a khaki color or something else? I'm about to add the two whaleboats to their davits, and have painted the boats haze grey (like the superstructure except for the camo pattern), but was wondering what the interior of the boats should be painted (still haze grey or deck blue or what?). Also, should the propeller on the boats be painted bronze or something else? Thanks for any help anyone can give me! Art Nicholson ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:30:51 -0400 From: "Jim McCormick" To: Subject: Re:SMML5/9/98Vol293 I'm looking for someone in the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas area who can assist me in finishing up my CO2-airbrush setup, I have the tank and the airbrush, however I still need the all important regulator and fittings. Please feel free to emaill me at balor@airmail.net Thanks!! Go to where you get your CO2 tank filled, and ask for their assistance. The gas supply company up here in Cleveland(AgA) was more than happy to help me set up my bottle for airbrushing, and always want to know what I'm working on now. Someday, I'll have to ake a model in to show them! They all agree that models are alot or interesting than oxy-acetalene welding, and heavy construction! Jim McCormick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4) From: Tim Perry Subject: Subject: whats in the [kit] stash? This is a bid for the smallest ship kit stash; I have a Tamiya 1:350 Fletcher, half built, with the beautiful GM etched set for it. That is it!! Oh, and also half built, a scratchbuilt 1:350 LCT IV, hopefully to be moulded so I can also build an LCF, LCR and maybe an LCG. I would have started a F****r class corvette, but for WEMs timely announcement about a forthcoming kit! Anyone have any ideas on 1:350 vehicles suitable for D-Day landing craft? I have some of the GHQ Micro Armour M4s and Churchill tanks on order, but they are 1:285, so about 20% too big. They are just such beautiful models though, I might live with the error. I wonder if the new Tom Hanks film will stir up more interest in D-Day. The Titanic Effect, one might say... Tim Perry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: History Q - channel dash Hi all - I would like to ask if someone can point me to an historical account of the famous "Channel Dash" of Scharnhorst, Pr.Eugen und Gniesenau that I see pictures of everywhere. I've seen it called "Operation Cerberus." Well named, the RN being what it was! So did they get away with it? Were they attacked? Where were they coming from/going to? You don't have to crowd the list with a long account, I just need a steer to a book. Thanks. Ken Durling ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) From: Sue & Ben Subject: Mr. Gordon's Mea Culpa. Mr. Gordon actually wrote it thus: >> Subject: Mea Culpa? << That question mark should've prepared me for the rest but.... >> Greg deserves all the accolades we can heap upon him. << On this we agree, but little else. The question is do you really mean it? >> I just hope some of you are able to take it without wringing your hands to the list master. And in the future, if you feel I've, or others, have crossed the line, I suggest you take it up personally with the offender- Greg is too busy already to serve as Ombudsman. << There were three options here: 1- Private e-mail, which allows the poster some relief through venting but little else. 2-General posting to the list because sometimes things have to be said out loud. But that could clutter the list and possibly create flame wars. 3-Call on the law. Weather Greg likes it or not he's the law around here. I personally think that was the thing to do. Remember that, as far as the list is concerned, Greg can easily make you a non-entity. Just count your blessings that he's not that kind of man. >> I agree this is just a hobby, and I should lighten up. Good idea. I mean, in the overall scheme of things, modelling is pretty meaningless. The ONLY important thing is that the modeller thoroughly enjoy himself in the time that he has to work on his hobby. << Here you were going in the right direction. However, you had to demonstrate your utter insincerity by following it with... >> If this means sticking toothpicks in a bar of soap and calling it Bismark, then so be it. << Did you feel you had to remind those which you obviously think of as the 'little people' of their lowly station and your incontrovertible superiority [...choke...]? This kind of elitist snobbery serves no one, including you. But you don't seem to realize this. Ben Montreal, Canada P.S. To all other subscribers. Should you feel that I should have refrained from posting this and wasting space, please forgive me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7) From: LeadSled58@aol.com Subject: Re: APAs >> On the question of APAs. Looking through "The Ships & Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet" 10th edition (1975) I was able to find some info on APAs. APA later changed to LPA stood for Amphibious Transport. In 1975 there were 3 left in the active US fleet; USS Francis Marion (LPA-249) and USS Paul Revere (LPA-248) on C4-S-1A hulls at 564 ft in length; and the USS Bexar (LPA-237)on a VC2-S-AP5 hull at 455 ft in length. A handfull of each class were in MarAd in 1975 but best bets are they have been scraped by now. << Don't be so sure of that!! Back in the mid 80's I was still taking parts off the Gage, Sandoval, Yancey and another ship I am not sure of as they were laid up in the mothball fleet in Portsmouth, Virginia. I have heard that there are still a couple there, used for training, and more parts! Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 8) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Recent photos of the Enterprise Big "E" buffs contact the Naval Institute for recent photos phone number: 410-224-3378. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Nowfels comments: Dear Nowfel: I doubt that you'll have any luck starting an unending thread about the French Navy in Indochina. A soliliquy maybe. But I think that you'll find relatively few folks interested in the subject, and from what I've observed, if no one is interested in a subject it doesn't last long on SMML. I happen to be one who IS interested in the French Navy, so I'd welcome the discussion. In the end, it may come down to just the two of us. Write me at b29@ix.netcom.com. and lets talk. Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 10) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: AFP, Type C Mark, I thought I knew about most of the 1/700 resin activity in this country, but you have come up with a kit I have not heard about. How do I get one of these kits, what is the price, and what else do they make. Is this a local (California) producer? Any help or leads would be appreciated. Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler Magazine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Jim Gordon's Mea Culpa I agree with many of Jim's comments. But I don't really think that anyone was too offended by the discussion which took place. Even tho some folks disagreed with my particular views on the subject, I wasn't bothered by it. Heck, there really is no "right" answer. Disagreement is healthy and as long as folks show respect for each other and their opinions, I know that Greg would endorse it (because he has in the past). There are plenty of subjects that SMML deals with that call for conjecture and opinion. Folks are asking all the time for opinions about different models, techniques, ideas and so on. As the saying goes, "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it." I hope that no one will be discouraged from putting in their two cents for fear of offending someone or being offended. This is supposed to be a free and easy forum for discussing anything that is related to the ship modeling hobby. And as Jim points out, disagreements often lead to better results. Just so long as everyone is courteous and respectful of others we'll be fine. Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 12) From: RCM612@prodigy.net Subject: Tamiya Essex >> First, the good news: Tamiya is releasing a 1/350 scale Essex. The manager of the local hobby shop called Tamiya's US office (its only about 5 miles from here) to inquire, and was told that the Essex is in the works, and that they are planning to release it soon. << >> If I may quote Fred Flintstone---EEEEEEEEEyabbadabbadoooooooo!!! << I agree totally, but remember, Tamiya wouldn't give my hobby shop manager any kind of a release date. Tamiya might release it next month or next year. It all depends on their interpretation of the word "soon," so we could be waiting for awhile. I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, just realistic (and a bit pessimistic!). Robert Morgan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 13) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Ms21 and Floquil Paints John: I can't imagine why the instructions would call for Sea Blue in connection with Ms 21. Ms 21 was a Navy Blue system, using Navy Blue (5-N) on all vertical surfaces. Sea Blue (5-S) was used for Measure 11, and was pretty much a very early war scheme, quickly replaced by Ms 21 when Sea Blue proved too light and had wearing problems (as did all the purple-blues to one extent or another). OAKLAND, as a unit of the JUNEAU (improved ATLANTA) class, should not have worn Sea Blue at all. That's one problem. The other problem is that while some of the Floquil marine colors are OK (namely Haze Gray [5-H] and Ocean Gray [5-O]), others are way, way off, and it sounds like that's the case with your bottle of Sea Blue. I suggest you mix and match according to our USN paint chip set. According to Randy Short, Floquil 5-N is a good match for 1942-44 revised Deck Blue (20-B). For Navy Blue, his suggested mix is one part Humbrol H67 plus one part Humbrol H68 plus five parts FS 35044 plus three parts FS 36118. For Sea Blue (5-S) (if you think you really want that), his mix is two parts Humbrol 104 plus one part Humbrol 176 plus one part Humbrol 25 plus one part Humbrol 147. John Snyder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 14) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: APDs Nice to read that Accurate Image Models will be releasing these interesting ships. With regard to colors, our second set of USN color chips, including the greens and browns used by the amphibious forces, should also be out in a couple of months. We'll keep you posted. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 15) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: APAs I'd be careful in drawing color conclusions from the movie "Away All Boats". It was filmed postwar by which time everything--including the transport used as USS BELINDA--had been repainted Haze Gray. John Snyder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 15) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Pit Road IJN Colors Hello all- Have any of you actually used any of the Pit Road Naval colors? I'm curious as to how they airbrush on (how much/what type of thinning, etc.). I have a few bottles that I got from Pacific Front a few months back (Kure & Sasebo)...colors looks pretty good, but texture reminds me of my wife's nail polish! So, I'm hesitant to use it until I can get some outside input. The project they'll (Kure anyway) be used on: Tamiya's new 1/700 YAMATO! Yeah Greg...I love her too. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Air tank & regulator Info. >> I'm looking for someone in the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas area who can assist me in finishing up my CO2-airbrush setup, I have the tank and the airbrush, however I still need the all important regulator and fittings << Take your air tank and fittings to a shop that works on or sells air compressors. They can get you fixed up. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 17) From: tomkremer Subject: Tamiya kits, decal application and more! A) I recently saw the Tamiya 1/700 Independance CVL and Fletcher DD kits, are these from the Skywave molds or are they "new"? B) Often decal application onto flat paints is troublesome, does anyone here paint with gloss colors, apply decals and then overspray with flat clear? If so, how does it work out? C) In regards to recent posts concerning SMML content, I feel that SMML is an oasis of civility and sanity on the internet. If someone wants to post daily on Yamato or knots or whatever is topical that's OK by me as long as we continue to avoid the flame wars and sleazy spam that ruin usenet. D) In regards to my stash of unbuilt kits, I keep it small as part of my overall SPP (spouse pacification program). A Tamiya Hornet CV and Skywave Belleau Wood CVL, a Yubari CL, a Gearing class DD and a Takeo class CA plus a couple IJN DDs and the Matchbox HMS Kelly DD. Best regards, Tom Kremer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 18) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: Kits in the stash...alphabetically, sort of... Hello all, Hope there is a bit of interest in this thread...sometimes it's good to know what is around. Airfix 1/600...HMS Belfast, Warspite, Iron Duke, KGV, Fearless, Devonshire, Daring, Manxman, German Narvik class dest., 1/72 German E Boat Academy 1/150th...Type XI-B U boat, (motorized, dives and surfaces...whoooaaaa!!!!) Artitec...(Dutch models) 1/700...2 Dutch minesweepers, post WW2 Dragon 1/700...HMAS Sydney, ( OHP class Destroyer ) Encore 1/350...( I think? ) 3 Soviet subs...types "D", "L", & "S" all 3 in one kit, kind of neat... Glencoe... USS Oregon Heller 1/400...HMS Illustrious, French BB Richelieu, KM battlecruiser Gniesenau Interavia 1/72....Tupolev G5 Russian torpedo boat...this thing must be seen to be believed!! The photo etched parts are very nice, but the injected molded hull is underwhelming....I am CERTAIN, absolutely beyond ANY doubt, that it must be the worst injected piece of plastic in the entire history of plastic modeling...by far. I have started mine and hope have it finished by the end of Sept...and I think it will be quite nice and a definite oddball addition to the fleet. Lindberg...Monitor and Merrimac, also a shrimp boat???? ( impulse purchase, I think.) Lifelike (not sure of scale) USS Olympia...same as old Revell I think? Matchbox 1/700... USS Arizona, USS San Diego, USS Indianapolis, HMS Tiger, HMS Kelly, HMS Ariadne, German Narvik destroyer... Nichimo 1/500... IJN carrier Hiryu, IJN carrier Zuikaku Revell... various scales, Emden, Royal Sovereign, Ark Royal with destroyer escort, USS John Paul Jones, Titanic, USS Saratoga CV60, USS North Carolina, USS Mission Capistrano (oiler), USS Yorktown. Tamiya 1/72... Japanese PT 15, British Vosper torpedo boat, 1/350... HMS Prince of Wales, KM Bismarck, IJN Yamato. Tauro 1/400...(Italian model company) Italian cruiser Gorizia. Zhengdefu...1/250 (?) 3 old Chinese battleships, very crude but charming in their own strange sort of way :-) That's all in my pile, at least ship wise anyway, and for a model railroader, that's a fair inventory... If only there was more time.... Hope some of you enjoyed this little list. It's nice to re-visit the stash every so often because you always seem to forget a few of the kits and it's like seeing old friends..plus for me there is usually a story attached to the purchase of each one. Eric Roth, Minden, Ontario, CANADA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 19) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: DKM IDs >> I recently bought an interesting little piece of 1/700 resin made by PT Dockyard and sold by Brookhurst Hobbies. It's a small German craft, looks like a barge, and is called an AFP, Type C. I think that it's one of the landing barges that I read about in Admiral Ruge's book, but I'm not sure. Can anyone help? More importantly, could you give me a reference? The only DKM reference I have is Taylor's small book which hardly deals with any small or auxiliary craft. << Hi Mark, According to my favourite DKM reference - H.T. Lenton's four volume set on the German Navy of WW II (published by Doubleday: New York in 1966-68) - your "AFP" is a "Transport ferry (gun)". Apparently some 120 were built (or planned) in the years 1942-44. They were converted from the standard "MFP" or "Transport ferry" but referred to by Lenton as the "Type D" (rather than Type C as per your information). A synopsis of the relevant stats is as follows: displacement-280 tons; dimensions-163'6"(oa) x 21'9" x 8'9"; speed-8knots; armament-two 4.1" (2x1), two 37mm AA (2x1), eight 20mm AA (2x4); carrying capacity-170 tons stores; crew-65 Two of Lenton's four volumes deal with German surface vessels and the second of these has photographs of "Artillery ferry AFP.83" (p.113) and "Artillery ferry AFP.19" (p.116). I hope this information is helpful, John Maine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: **TRADE**UPDATED AIRSTRIKE 700 pages and WEM 1/700 ASKOLD pics Hi Guys, Hi Greg, We're back in the fold at last after a brilliant time at the Festival of the Sea last weekend. Rumbly is talking to us again after his short spell behind bars for those who know him. I have just posted an update to the AIRSTRIKE 700 pages at http://white.ensign.models.simplenet.com/700air/air700.htm and at the following location, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/askold/askold.htm You will find pics of the first castings of the WEM 1/700 Askold to arrive... the etched brass set will follow later. For those of you who have waited most patiently, we are awaiting the main production run of etched brass before we can ship any more WEM 1/700 HMS Sussex 1942 kits. The White Ensign Models homepage is at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models P.S. The deal on helicopter specials is now over... sorry chaps! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ End of Volume