Subject: SMML08/09/98VOL296 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:58:58 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Oliver Hazard Perry 2: DKM Id Responses 3: Balao Sub Below the WL? 4: Tamiya Enterprise 5: Colour schemes USN WWII 6: Re: History Q: Channel Dash 7: What we're gonna do to Greg Lee 8: Calling all Yamato buffs 9: RE: USS Oregon City CA-122 10: Re: Atlanta details 11: Re: WW-2 stock footage in films 12: Re: Flat over gloss painting 13: Re: ATLANTA 14: Re: AFP, Type C 15: Pit Road IJN Colors 16: History Q - Channel Dash 17: Channel Dash -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Volume numbers and dates 2: Wanted - Revell Buckley Class DE Kit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Dave Pearce" Subject: Oliver Hazard Perry Can anyone advise me on the visible differences between the US and Australian OHP ships. Dave Pearce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mark Sloan Subject: DKM Id Responses To John Maine: thanks so much for your response and the details therein. It was kind of you to take the time to help. To Greg Lee: thanks for the list. How else could I get help for my ship modeling affliction? To Dan Jones: I can tell you no more than they are made by a company called PT Dockyard, and as far as I know the only place to get them is Brookhurst Hobbies in Brookhurst, CA. They have a web site. I should say, however, that I learned of these from Paolo Pizzi's e-zine, NAVIS. Paulo reviewed three of these in the May issue of his on-line magazine. Thanks, Mark Sloan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: RLapadura@aol.com Subject: Balao Sub Below the WL? Hi All, I just picked up a 1/350 BWN Balao class sub and the Squadron/Signal "US Subs in Action". I'd like to do the Cero as she appears on the back cover. My question is what are the hull colors below the waterline? I know what Ms 32/9SS represents above the WL, but have nothing on the rest. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Bob LaPadura -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: Tamiya enterprise >> I am building the tamyia 1/350 scale enterprise and am curious if anyone knows where I could pick up some recent photographs of the ship. I'm especially interested in photos of the ship durring launch and recover sequences. Also does anyone have any tips about scratchbuilding with brass. One last question, is there any resin or brass sea sparrow launchers or vulcan cannons for my enterprise? This kit is my first major undertaking so I would appreciate any tips anybody could think of. << For help with the Enterprise as she is to-day, have a look at the web page below; http://www.ncts.navy.mil/homepages/cvn65/ It's the Big E's official Web site , also useful is the other link ; http://www.djaymedia.com/cvn65/ This is a personal Web page of someone from Newport News who built the model, and significantly upgraded it. I've got my own Tamiya E on order from HLJ, as my Xmas present to me from my wife, lets hope it gets here before Dec.25th ! Oh I recall a post from someone in the last few days saying they'd seen Enterprise in harbour a few weeks back, looking a little worse for wear. Well since the E and I share the very same birthday, (she being laid down on the same day I was born, 4th Feb 1958) at 40 we both need some tender loving care from time to time! Colin Ritchie Aberdeen Scotland PS if the Tamiya stories are true, yeeha, Oh the RMS group has "confirmation" that Tamiya will indeed be releasing their 48th scale Swordfish at some time, sorry MDC! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Tomcat" Subject: Colour schemes USN WWII Hi everyone! I would like to know if there is any good source, preferably on the net, where one can find info about the different camo patterns used by the USN during WWII. I have a number of 1/700 models on order from Hobbylink and would like to give them a more accurate look than the ones that I've built so far. I've seen several postings about pattern this and that but would like to, if possible have a graphical representation of the pattern.The models that I've ordered is CV's, BB's, CG's and DD's of different classes spanning most of the WWII action. I suppose that there is a little chance that such a site might exist but maybe it might be worth considering putting up such a page at some the e-zines, Navismagazie or the other that I currently have forgot the name of. Just make a standard hull with side and top view and then apply the pattern along with different color mixing receipes or color codes for US and European colorbrands. Also wish to thank Greg for his work SMML which when it at its best is a fortune of knowledge and inspiration. BTW, if there's soemone interested in taking a look RC controlled 1/350 plastic ships I have a put up some brief information and some photos of my working Tamaiya 1/350 USS New Jersey and USS Enterprise. Cheers, Fredrik Tholander, Gothenburg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: History Q: Channel Dash Ken, FIASCO by John Deane Potter, Stein and Day, 1970, is a good history of the dash. It was published in both HB and PB form. Long out of print, it can generally be found without too much difficulty through second-hand book dealers. Suggest that you do a search through your local shops,or else on the web. You ought to be able to find a copy. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: What we're gonna do to Greg Lee OK Gang, We can pat him on the back all we want...but face it, the poor sod's in Australia (nothing against Australia), but I'm sure his access to resin kits and the like is limited... So here's what we're going to do FOR Greg Lee. As the owner of Accurate Image Models, I'm sending Greg a 1/350 Group II Hunt and, when it's ready, a Group 1 APD as a token of my personal appreciation for his efforts. I'm not even going to ask him to review them, because I have a feeling he's going to model that extremely rare encounter that occurred in 1944, when 2 Hunt Class Destoyers, on reverse Lend-Lease, supporting an APD drop behind enemy lines in the South China Sea, were engaged by the Yamato at close range...ok, I'm kidding...it was Musashi... Anyway, Greg, Bravo Zulu. We really do appreciate your efforts. Jeff Herne PS: How's about the rest of the manfacturers following suit? After all, he does provide us with a direct link to our customers...let's give this guy an incentive... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Calling all Yamato buffs Guys, I think we agree that the Yamato was the Acme of battleships. Let's talk about it in detail without the interference of the Yamatophobics in SMML. I suggest we form a Yamato discussion group. Call it maybe, "Club Yamato". The format would be that whoever in the group has something to say regarding this formidable ship (and Musashi) send an email to everyone in the group, same goes for replies. Free form, nobody has to manage it, and everyone gets informed at the same time. This should work if there are not too many of us, right, or am I missing something? Let me start by reminding, or informing, you that I've been working on a 1/350 Yamato model for about 16 months now. It has taken so long because the kit was such a bear to wrestle right from the beginning. Its the LIFELIKE kit, formerly produced by some unknown Japanese firm, maybe Otaki or Nichimo. The fit was bad and the instructions the worst I've ever had the displeasure of working with. But, to its credit, it is pretty accurate in shape, and all of the guns are provided for the 1945 suicide sortie, which I built my model up as. The project is about 90% finished, and I've just now borrowed the Anatomy of Yamato book by Skulski. Of course now I have to redo a lot of details I only could guess at before, but I will be able to make a pretty detailed model using the drawings in this book. I loathed this model for a long time but persevered with it, and now its looking good. I'm putting it into the category of "stand-off scale"; just don't look TOO closly at it and it will do fine. I figure another couple of months before it is finished. I also have a 1/700 Yamato, the old Tamiya one, still in the box. What a magnificient ship. Let me know what you think of this idea. JG PS: Just above the deck level on the rear of the superstructure is what seems to be a hanger with two openings. Is this correct, and did it have rolldown doors? I need to detail this area. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: RE: USS Oregon City CA-122 Hi, Jim! I am currently building a 1/96 scale Oregon City. I was unable to locate any kits or printed plans. I did find some excellent photos of Oregon City and her two completed sisters Albany and Rochester from the Floating Drydock. The only plans I was able to find are available from the National Archives on 19 rolls of 35mm microfilm! The first roll is the main one as it has the complete booklet of general plans in both 1/96 and 1/48 scales with the full set of hull lines and all decks, bridges etc. it even has the hull plating plan. The other rolls are every nut, bolt and gadget in the ship ( a detailers dream) current price runs about $34 a roll. The microfilm Series # is :5880; roll #0 is an index and roll #1 is your general plans. You can find microfilm ordering information on the WEB at http://www.nara.com. Good Luck with your project! Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Atlanta details Art wrote: >> The Atlanta has two flagbags on each side of her forward superstructure (below the foremast) and two flagbags on the after superstructure (aft of the mainmast). Does anyone know how many halyards go into each flagbag from the yardarms of the masts? << Tough to call from looking at photos in the Floating Drydock booklet on Juneau. The Wiswesser plans appear to show 5 halyards for the forward signal bridge and 3 for the after one. Of course, these may well be a simplified rendition. For the CLAA 119-class these are shown to be 6 and 4, respectively. >> I added a gaff to the mainmast for the flag (ensign), and it looks like a line runs to the after superstructure near the two flag bags. Any idea exactly where it runs to? << Wiswesser plan again shows the flag halyard appearing to tie off at the base of the mainmast for CLAA 119. For Atlanta, it's not as clear. Assume it tied off near the signal halyards. >> The Atlanta has a number of "rope reels" and other reels, I presume for hoses (though I don't know). Should the ropes or hoses on those reels be painted a khaki color or something else? << Assuming they are reels for heavy mooring lines, tan or off white would work. >> l'm about to add the two whaleboats to their davits, and have painted the boats haze grey (like the superstructure except for the camo pattern), but was wondering what the interior of the boats should be painted (still haze grey or deck blue or what?). Also, should the propeller on the boats be painted bronze or something else? << Juneau's boats were all camouflaged to match the superstructure but there are no photos of the interiors. Hard to call that one, but the prop would not have been painted (natural bronze). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: WW-2 stock footage in films >> I'd be careful in drawing color conclusions from the movie "Away All Boats". It was filmed postwar by which time everything--including the transport used as USS BELINDA--had been repainted Haze Gray. << I'll second that. Keep in mind, even if the "stock footage" shown in these films is clear and clean, keep in mind it was taken when color photography was in its infancy. There was no really accurate way to adjust the color at that time. As long as lighting conditions were perfect, it worked pretty well. I'm not sure if they used them back then but different filters change the color of photos and, I assume film. This is why we give the modeler a lot of leeway when it comes to color shade at the National level. That's not to say don't look for correct color schemes. If someone shows up with a flouresant orange Fletcher they had best provide a photo. Your best bet is to get some accurate color chips and lighten or darken (depending on the scale) from there. Floating Dry-dock carries a series of color chip cards for a resonable price. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Flat over gloss painting >> B) Often decal application onto flat paints is troublesome, does anyone here paint with gloss colors, apply decals and then overspray with flat clear? If so, how does it work out? << I paint every ship using this technique and it works quite well. I first gloss coat the entire model, Then I apply the decals over the entire model, apply the photo-etch and rigging, and as a last step, dust the entire model with a thin coat of flat. The advantage to this is the flat coat will cover any shiny spots left by super glue during the photo-etch and rigging stage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: ATLANTA Hi Art: From a lot of photos of seen of other ships, those hose reels and other reels were often covered with canvas covers painted the appropriate colors (deck blue top, haze gray sides), except when at GQ when the canvas would be removed in anticipation of combat need. I would suspect--though can't say for sure--that the interior of the whaleboats would also be deck blue, to be in conformance with the provisions of Ships 2. As for how many signal halyards, and where the ensign halyard ran to, well, the next book in Alan Raven's series will be the ATLANTA class.... John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: AFP, Type C Would this be the (in)famous "F-Lighter"? If so, one could do some interesting dioramas portraying US or RN MTBs in action against one or more in the Med, using the Skywave PT/MTB set. TheF-lighters were nasty customers for the Allied light forces. Armed with a combination of 88mm, 40mm, and 20mm (which could include Flak Vierlings), they badly outgunned any PT or MTB and were of too shallow draft to use torpedoes on effectively. The Germans used them for convoy escort for coastal convoys. The Allies finally hit upon a system whereby an RN upgunned MTB to deal with the F-lighters was paired with a couple of USN PTs to deal with the convoy. The system worked pretty well, but the outcome was never as guaranteed as the Allied forces would have liked, and no one looked forward to picking a fight with an F-lighter. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Baker Subject: Pit Road IJN Colors I bought a set of four of the most-uised colors for IJN ships from Pacific Hobbies last February. The paint is too thick to airbrush from the jar, and none of the several solvents (including alchohol and, just in case, water) that I tried with it did anything other than make a curdled mess (it took me about two hours to clean out the airbrush after using a Floquil thinner). Having read that the actual producer of this paint is Gunze Sanyo, I asked my excellent local hobbyshop (Grandad's, in Springfied, VA) to obtain a bottle of Gunze's thinner--but in two months, they've been unable to come up with it from their several suppliers, and even Squadron Signal, which carries Gunze Sanyo's paints, does not list their thinner. So, if nothing else, I've got enough paint to produce several hundred authentic (one presumes) color chips so that I can try matching them with more easily-obtained brands. Does anyone know exactly which thinner might work with the Pit Road paints? Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: History Q - Channel Dash >> I would like to ask if someone can point me to an historical account of the famous "Channel Dash" of Scharnhorst, Pr.Eugen und Gniesenau that I see pictures of everywhere. I've seen it called "Operation Cerberus." Well named, the RN being what it was! So did they get away with it? Were they attacked? Where were they coming from/going to? You don't have to crowd the list with a long account, I just need a steer to a book. << Hi Ken, The best single account I know of is John Deane Potter's "Fiasco: The Breakout of the German Battleships", originally published in 1970 by Heinemann (London). I've seen it in both hardcover and paperback but I rather think that it's out of print now. Still, I expect you could find a copy in a good, second-hand bookstore or at your local library. Happy reading! John Maine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Paul O'Reilly" Subject: Channel Dash An excellent book on the subject is "Fiasco: the Break-out of the German Battleships" by John Deane Potter. It was published in 1970 by William Heinemann Ltd and published again in 1972 by Pan Books Ltd, 33 Tothill Street,London SW1. ISBN 0 330 02910 X. Its a good read. Paul O'Reilly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Volume numbers and dates Hi Gang, Well, I have done it again. Somehow I have duped date and vol's over the past few days, and made a right botch of the system. My good buddy and SMML statustition Henry Blecha has helped me get everything back on track (Again:-) It seems I have a tricentenial phobia:-) Anyways, Kudos to Henry for making sure we keep everything accurate for the archives. (What archives?:-) Thanks Greg. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Jack Mc Kie Subject: Wanted - Revell Buckley Class DE Kit Dear List members, My dad served on the Buckley Class Destroyer Escort USS Solar. He wants a model of the ship which has been difficult to find. Does anyone have a Revell Buckley Class DE kit you would part with or know where I can get one? Please respond to me direct via e-mail to mjmckie@frontiernet.net. Thanks in advance for your assistance Jack Mc Kie Rochester, New York -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume