Subject: SMML09/09/98VOL297 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:39:15 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Atlanta Details 2: Re: Pit Road IJN Colors 3: Printers for decals 4: Edinburgh and Kirov 5: Re: thinner 6: Re: Camoflage Patterns 7: Re: Possible Paint Thinner 8: Re: Buckly Class DE Kit 9: Stash Cache 10: Yamato Hangers 11: Channel Dash 12: HMS Repulse 1941 Paint Scheme 13: Channel Dash 14: You want the Yamato? 15: Re: Repulse to Renown 16: Missouri rigging 17: Re: Balao subs 18: Re: "Fiasco" by Potter 19: Yamato Hangar Info 20: Re: Pit Road IJN Colors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: APMA club auction 2: Re: WW-2 stock footage in films 3: Raven-Herne Presentations -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Re: Atlanta Details Some of Art Nicholson's Atlanta questions may be addressed in the soon-to-be-released Warship Perspectives #2 "Atlanta Class Cruisers" by Glen Arnold. According to WR Press: " ....compilation of the second in the series proceeds apace, and if things go smoothly then it should be out in about three months (i.e. December 1). The title is "Atlanta Class Cruisers", and the author is Glen Arnold. The book will contain a mine of new information and many new photos. The general arrangement plans will be supplied on a separately printed sheet of large size, folded and dropped into the book, and there will of course be eight pages in full colour showing camouflage schemes, including the Atlanta as she appeared in the spring and summer of 1942." Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Pit Road IJN Colors a. If by "Pacific Hobbies" you really meant Pacific Front Hobbies, did you call or write Bill Gruner at Pacific Front to see if HE knew what the appropriate thinner might be? b. Did you try alcohol? I use that to thin the regular line of Gunze Sanyo paints. Of course, there's no guarantee that your paints use the same formulation.... John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Printers for decals I am looking at getting a new printer to do decals. I have been using the color laser printer at work, but the toner tends to chip and it doesn't do white. I tried using white decal sheets, but it is a bit difficult to trim on really small applications (USCG emblems). I am looking at the Alps MD-1000 or the MD-1300. I really hate buying anything from alps (bad experiences with engineering development types) but these seem to be the only dry transfer printers out there that include white and metalics. My question is: Are there any recommendations as to which of these printers to get? And are there any other printers on the market that will do the same thing? It will be connected to a Mac, of course. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Edinburgh and Kirov Dear list master, list mastress and list members, The daily reading of this list has been a real inspiration to get some planes out of the assembly line, and bring out my WEM Type 42 Batch 3 destroyer yet again... I want to complete it as HMS Edinburgh, and wonder if are there any differences between the HMS Gloucester (as the kit is) and the Edinburgh? If so, what are they? Secondly, I wonder if there are any reliable scale plans available for the Kirov class battlecruisers? Doesn't look like there'll be a kit soon, and...we all need to dream a little, don't we? BTW, I'll join the choir praising the efforts of Greg and his (list) mastress. Handel's "Messiah" playing in the background now... Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: thinner >> I asked my excellent local hobbyshop (Grandad's, in Springfied, VA) to obtain a bottle of Gunze's thinner--but in two months, they've been unable to come up with it from their several suppliers, and even Squadron Signal, which carries Gunze Sanyo's paints, does not list their thinner. << Dave, I have no idea if Gunze's thinner will work but if you'll send me your address I'll give you a bottle to try. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Camoflage Patterns >> I would like to know if there is any good source, preferably on the net, where one can find info about the different camo patterns used by the USN during WWII. << Sorry, I don't know of any web sites but be sure and contact The Floating Drydock's web page. They have "Fleet Carriers 2 of the WW-2 Era" back in print. It covers every camouflage pattern of nearly every class of warship in WW-2. Port, starboard, aft. bow and deck veiws abound. If you can get the Camouflage 1 book, it has all the others. The books are reasonably priced and worth every dime! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Possible Paint Thinner Try using Dio-Sol to thin your paint. I can't gaurantee it will work, but so far it thins every enamel and laquor based paint I know of. Of course, it will not thin watersoluble paints. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Buckly Class DE Kit >> Does anyone have a Revell Buckley Class DE kit you would part with or know where I can get one? << Jack, Iron Shipwright (Commanders Series) (Toms Model Works) makes a neat little 1/350 Buckley class DE. My kit is several years old and the only problem I have encountered with the kit is that the Toms Model Works brass doesn't include any bow rails! With a bow that has the shear the Bucklys had, this railing is imperitive. So be prepared to work around it. I brought this up to the Commanders Series guys at the Nats a couple of years ago so maybe they fixed the problem. If they have, I would love to get the bow rails so I can finish mine. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Stash Cache My wife left me recently and I have found that my kit cache has grown proportionately: All Tamiya 1/350 battleships including four Missouris for the full class. Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher four Revell 1/300 USCGC WAGB Eastwinds including one original issue, one three color plastic, and one "S" box (for different eras and the four compass points) three 1/300 USCGC WPG32 Taney kits to be built as the USCGC WPG/WHEC32 Duane (natch) in different eras 1/125 Lindburg Blue Devil Destroyer (so I'm a masochist, gotta put a sailor on the bridge of the Melvin getting a melvin) Revell Germany 1/250 and Minicraft 1/350 USCGC Eagle (NOT USS Eagle, if you please!) 1/16 Dumas USCG 41' Utility boat (to be built as the 41317 out of Honolulu) and the following 1/350 resin kits: WEM's Sheffield, Commander's Graff Spee, Iron Shipwright's California, Tom's Arizona 1921 and Tom's Arizona 1941 The following are currently under construction: 2 Commander's 1/350 Wards and the USS Buchanan 1919 and HMS Campbelltown 1941 Tom's 1/350 HMS Campbelltown 1942 Blue Water Navy 1/350 USS Bainbridge DD1 and, of course, the Monster (Nichimo 1/200 Yamato, or Dan Quayle would say, Yamatoe) Regards, Duane (I really need a life) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Yamato Hangers >> PS: Just above the deck level on the rear of the superstructure is what seems to be a hanger with two openings. Is this correct, and did it have rolldown doors? I need to detail this area. << Hangers in the superstructure? I'm not sure what you're referring to but they weren't hangers. What you're seeing could be large ventilators. The Yamato had an airplane hanger in a well at the stern, just forward of the crane. It had two large barn (swinging) doors. Just above and to either side of the hanger well were doors for the small boat bays. Both the aircraft and the boats were lifted by the crane. Over the side on either side were additional small boat launching bays where the boats were suspended on an overhead track and were lowered directly to the water. These side bays gave the Yamato, Musashi, and Shinano a very distinctive look. All the bays had swinging doors. Due to the length of time needed to launch the boats, none were suitable as lifeboats. Regards, Duane (the original Yamatoholic) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Channel Dash A better book on the Channel Dash is 'Escape of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau' by Peter Kemp, Number 13 in the old Ian Alan Sea Battles in Close-Up Series. It was published in 1975. It has some pretty good photographs of both British and German units involved as well as data tables. Also has a bibliography of other sources, (at least as of 1975). Finding it will be difficult as I think all the Ian Allan series are out of print. But somewhere out there copies do exist. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: HMS Repulse 1941 Paint Scheme Hi Everybody! I was wondering if anyone had any information on the paint scheme of the Repulse in 1941 when she was sunk. All I've seen is a blurry photo of the port side. Are there any photos showing the pattern on the starboard side? I am VERY hesitant to make it identical to the port as in many cases the patterns did not match on either side. Colors look to be a light grey (as used in the Mediterranean) and dark grey (almost black?) but I remember seeing a photo of a 1/350 RC model where the light grey was more bluish. Is this correct? If anyone could give me a color match using the RN paint chips on Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com/rnchips.htm) that would be great. In reponse to questions about newer Tamiya 1/700 kits- the Fletcher is an entirely new kit and the 'Independence' class CVL is actually a Bogue class CVE and this one is a SkyWave re-tooling. SkyWave does, by the way, have 2 Independence CVLs (Independence and Belleau Wood). As for my pitiful stash- Kaga (Hasegawa), Yubari (Tamiya) & Maryland (Waveline) all in 1/700. (If I can't control my building, I have to control my buying however much it pains me!) Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Graham Holmes Subject: Channel Dash "Fiasco" is definitly the book to get regarding Cerebus, alas it is hard to come by, so I suggest looking for: "Sea Battles in Close up: World War 2, Part 1" Martin Stephen, Naval Institute Press 1988 This has stories of several battles, including a decent account of the Dash, and has the advantage of still being in print, I believe. The Dash is covered in almost all other books about the Kriegsmarine, so just make sure you check the contents. Graham Holmes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jim McCormick" Subject: You want the Yamato? Greg, In the words of Jack Nicholson-" You want the Yamato?- You can't handle the Yamato!!!" Seriously, go to: http://iac.co.jp/~hlj/pages/imai/imaib-27420.html. This is now the biggest full kit of the Yamato on the market, going for around $680.00 US, or close to $1100.00 AUS. If anyone is unfarmiliar, Hobby link Japan is a great source, and always has dealt honestly and fairly with me. Jim McCormick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Repulse to Renown Art N. wrote: >> Regarding converting the Airfix Repulse to the Renown (as rebuilt, I presume), I think that would take a fair amount of work. For instance, you'd have to modify the belt and bulges (the Renown's was a deck lower and a different shape) << Completely agree on this. Renown's bulges were narrower and longer, from the diagrams I've seen. I tried and failed once to make a Renown using parts from an Airfix Repulse and a scratchbuilt wooden hull. I never did get the hull right....... >> and you'd have to make ten twin 4.5" mounts (that no one currently makes in 1/600 scale). << True. The only saving grace is that the 4.5" would be comparatively simple to scratchbuild. >> You'd also have to put on a new bridge and forward superstructure, which you could borrow in part (there were some diffferences) from an Airfix King George V. Someone just needs to make a kit of the Renown, though I gather from what's been said recently that Airfix is not a likely candidate. << It's true that Airfix is unlikely (odds nearly 0), but the odds of anyone else doing it in injection-molded polystyrene are even lower. WEM may do a resin kit someday, but I probably won't be able to afford it. David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Doc Data Subject: Missouri rigging Does anyone know where I can get a clear photo or drawing of the standard rigging and halyard arrangement on the Missouri in 1943/44? All the photos I can find are either not clear enough, too far away. There are some clear one of the ship (or one of it's sister ships) but they are all of the ship during the 50's or later after some big mast modifications. Thanks. Doc Data -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Balao subs >> Balao Sub Below the WL? << During the course of WWII, all US submarines were painted black from waterline down. Prior to the war, S-boats had "red lead", but this was quickly changed to an anti-fouling black paint. The initial early camoflauge was simply an overall black; later measures, such as the 32/9S incorporated two shades of gray blended into each other and then into black along the sides of the hull. All decks are flat black; in fact anything that can be seen from the overhead was flat black, such as tops of gun barrels. The red lead came back during the late '50's, around the time of the Skipjack class. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: "Fiasco" by Potter Thanks gents! That was unanimous! Must be the book. One quick call to my local used book goldmine and I found it! Only $6, too. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Yamato Hangar Info Re: Hangars on the Yamatos: I'm pretty sure the things you saw on the rear of the superstructure were large vents...Yamato was crawling with 'em! As for actual hangars, there was only one (accessed via the large "pit"-like opening on the lower stern quarter deck). There were also a couple of small lifeboat bays on each side of the large "pit" (you'll see mini RR tracks running into these areas). The only other thing similar to hangars are the huge motor launch bays on each side of the ship towards the stern. Info from Skulski's "The Battleship Yamato" and 1/200 scale FujiArt plans. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Pit Road IJN Colors >> I bought a set of four of the most-uised colors for IJN ships [snip]. Does anyone > know exactly which thinner might work with the Pit Road paints? << Try Acetone....worked for me, although I didnt find the paint too thick to spray. Acetone is available at many hobby shops (about $5 for 2 oz), but I'd suggest Wal-Mart ($4 for 36oz here!!) or a paint shop. Be extremely careful, this stuff is terribly toxic, and the fumes can kill so be very well ventilated. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins Subject: APMA club auction Hi all, Just a quick message to all Sydneysiders & others who may be in Sydney this weekend. APMA is having it's annual auction this Saturday 12/09/98 starting at approx 1330. Doors open at 1230. Anyone is welcome to attend & bid on items, but unfortunatly if you are not a member you can't sell anything. The address is as following: Senoir Citezins Center, 33 Blaxland Rd, Top Ryde (opp KFC) We are hoping to have a good turn out & hope to see you there. If there is any queries, please feel free to email me. all the best: Shane APMA 630(Committee Member) IPMS(NSW) 1093 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: WW-2 stock footage in films RUSTY!!! ;^) There you go, touting the competition again.... ;^) We have a precisely-matched set of 21 (as opposed to Floating Drydock's 6) USN WW2 colors available either by direct sale or from Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies. Again, as a reminder, these cover the grays and purple-blues in use from pre-war through late 1944. As a bonus, we'll also be including Randy Short's suggested mixing formulas in each set. USN Set 2, which will include the 1945 neutral grays and the greens and browns used by the amphibious & PT forces has slipped a bit, probably to the end of October. We're still shooting for the end of the year for a set of 27 RN WW2 colors. Anyone interested can contact me (or Pacific Front Hobbies) directly. John Snyder, IPMS 26045 Snyder & Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Dimitrios Apostolopoulos Subject: Raven-Herne Presentations Dear SMML Members: I have been told that someone videotaped Alan Raven's and Jeff Herne's presentations at July's IPMS Nationals. I am very much interested in obtaining a copy of the videotaped talks and Q/A sessions. Any leads are greatly appreciated. Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume