Subject: SMML10/09/98VOL298 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:52:54 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Camouflage Patterns (Suggestion) 2: I just can't win 3: Re: Edinburgh and Kirov 4: Possible Modern Naval kits 5: Airfix Vote Update 6: "Fiasco" 7: You want the Yamato 8: Are you ready for this Yamato? 9: Just got home from local store 10: Tamiya 1/350th Battleship Models 11: Printers for decals 12: PIT ROAD PAINT 13: Re: decal printer 14: National Archives Microfilm info 15: Buckley Class DE 16: Skywave paints 17: Re: Atlanta, Repulse Camo, USN Camo, Missouri Rigging 18: CV-42 USS Roosevelt 19: Scharnhorst camouflage scheme. 20: Tamiya Fletcher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Modelers Boatyard Announcement 2: Re: Gunze aqueous thinner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Camouflage Patterns (Suggestion) Rusty White said: >> Sorry, I don't know of any web sites but be sure and contact The Floating Drydock's web page. They have "Fleet Carriers 2 of the WW-2 Era" back in print. It covers every camouflage pattern of nearly every class of warship in WW-2. Port, starboard, aft. bow and deck veiws abound. If you can get the Camouflage 1 book, it has all the others. The books are reasonably priced and worth every dime! << If fellow SMML'rs would help me gather the data, I would be more than happy to provide the space on our website to build a Ship Camouflage website. I think it would be a tremendous help for all of us shipmodelers to have such a site online. My only problem is most of my data is on USN ships. I would need data for all of the foreign navies. I know we have enough talent onboard to make this project work. Any takers ?!?!?!?!? John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: I just can't win >> RUSTY!!! ;^) There you go, touting the competition again.... ;^) We have a precisely-matched set of 21 (as opposed to Floating Drydock's 6) USN WW2 colors available either by direct sale or from Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies. << I just can't win! Tom Harrison properly chastized me (tongue in cheek) via e-mail the other day for leaving out his Fletcher set in my comments so just stand in line. Seriously though, don't take my ommision of yours or anyone elses products as an endorsement of the one mentioned. I don't mean to tout anyone or any product. I think it's absolutly fantastic that so many new products for ships are finally hitting the market. I can only comment on products I know about. There are so many new things out there every day concerning ships it's tough to keep up. Notice to ALL ship model related industries!!!! Send me some information on your products (except John or Tom. JUST KIDDING!!) and I'll mention it in Ships & Tips in the IPMS(USA) Journal. I started S&T to inform ship modelers of new products the other guys just skip over. E-mail me and I'll send you my mailing address. Rusty "furiously slapping my wrist" White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Edinburgh and Kirov >> The daily reading of this list has been a real inspiration to get some planes out of the assembly line, and bring out my WEM Type 42 Batch 3 destroyer yet again... I want to complete it as HMS Edinburgh, and wonder if are there any differences between the HMS Gloucester (as the kit is) and the Edinburgh? If so, what are they? Secondly, I wonder if there are any reliable scale plans available for the Kirov class battlecruisers? Doesn't look like there'll be a kit soon, and...we all need to dream a little, don't we? BTW, I'll join the choir praising the efforts of Greg and his (list) mastress. Handel's "Messiah" playing in the background now... << I have a 1/700 kit of the Kirov, done by a company called HP from Germany. It is quite nice. Done in resin, but no photo-etch. IHP (imperial Hobby) in Pennsylvania has announced a Kirov in preparation, 1/700 resin with Photo-etch. I assume this is no relation to the HP kit. IHP has previously done several "craftsman" kits of never built battleships. P.S. You guys can talk about the Yamato all you like, and the listmaster is doing a fine job. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Possible Modern Naval kits I have been corresponding with Gary from Hong Kong and he intends to produce several modern warships. I don't know a lot about them at this time but he says his first release will be a 1/700 scale Russian Neustrashimy frigate. Other possible releases mentioned are Australian Anzac, Russian Slava, USS Wasp, Dutch Karel Doorman, German Type 123 & 122, French La Fayette, Chinese Luda, Taiwanese Hai Lung and chinese Xia. If and when any of these kits become available I'll let you know. Rusty (not touting anyone) White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Airfix Vote Update Hello Folks, Just wanted to give all a quick update on the voting - So far 12 SMMLers have cast their votes. Votes from 2 more are pending awaiting some clarifications. I know that a lot more out there in SMML land have thought about it and typed up the votes but have forgotten to click on the Send button (Mr. Wells, where are your votes?) Repsonse to date have come from subscribers in the USA, Canada and Australia. So far none from Europe (I am surprised), Africa, Asia and South America (I don't know if SMML has hit Antartica yet). So, please keep them coming. Leaders to date - New ----> HMS Renown with a tie for second between HMS Invincible and HMS Lion Classic ---> HMS Hood with a three way tie for second - HMS KGV, HMS Ajax and RMS Queen Elizabeth. To make it official, here are the vote masters' votes Felix New - HMS Lion, HMS Dreadnought and SS Rotterdam Old - HMS Ajax, HMS Nelson and RMS Queen Elizabeth Keith New - HMS Lion, HMS Renown and HMS Dorsetshire Old - HMS KGV, HMS Hood, DKM Bismarck Please vote if you haven't already and to those who did, thanks. Felix Bustelo and Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: "Fiasco" >> "Fiasco" is definitly the book to get regarding Cerebus, alas it is hard to come by, so I suggest looking for: "Sea Battles in Close up: World War 2, Part 1" Martin Stephen, Naval Institute Press 1988 << Got "Fiasco" and am enjoying reading it, and "Doh!" - I had the latter book in my collection all along. That's what happens when you have too many books. So, guess I'm set! Thanks again. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Re: You want the Yamato >> In the words of Jack Nicholson-" You want the Yamato?- You can't handle the > Yamato!!!" Seriously, go to: http://iac.co.jp/~hlj/pages/imai/imaib-27420.html. << Jim, I tried to go to the URL you named but got the dreaded "NOT FOUND The requested URL. . . was not found on this server." Any suggestions? Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Are you ready for this Yamato? For a really really BIG Yamato check out http://www.modelersboatyard.com/loyalhanna/ijn_yamato.htm ...also check out the really really BIG price tag! Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Graham Holmes Subject: Just got home from local store I just paid a quick visit to my local hobbystore, and as I walked in, they placed on the counter something waiting for me alone. The book 'Battlecruisers' by John Roberts. It is as to be expected, superb. It details the design and development of the Battlecruiser from origin up to the Hood. There are lots of excellent photos and drawings, mostly from the 1905-16 timeframe. Highly recomended for all those Tiger and Queen Mary lovers out there. Another win for the local store. Graham Holmes BTW, one point that the owner brought up. This is a large Hard Back book, retailing at US$50. He knew I would buy it, but at that price doubted if anyone else would. So he only got one. He said that if it was Soft Back, he could sell possibly up to 5, with the lower price(about 25-40% less). Do publishers realise they are missing out on sales because of this? Would more of us buy more books, if they were SB but cost less? Any comments? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: valiant@home.com Subject: Tamiya 1/350th Battleship Models hello. this is my first posting to the list. my question is does anyone know how accurate the tamiya 1/350th battleships models are? they look great (i have the Yamato), but i was wondering if they're correct. i want to build accurate models and would like to start with the best possible model without having to do alot of reworking. i want to build the tamiya ones simply because i can get them fairly easily and they're way cheaper than resin kits outta the states, especially with the crappy canadian dollar. also, are they a good start for a first time ship modeler? i was also wondering about the academy bismarck kit too, because it's way cheaper then the tamiya kit! any good titles for reference would be helpful too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Tim Perry Subject: Printers for decals Hi Duane, I'd question that you NEED a desktop printer to make decals for your models. Before you go to all that expense, check out any graphics bureaux in your locality, as they will probably be able to do dry rub down type transfers for you, to your own design, at a fraction of the cost of getting your own machine. I work for an industrial design company and we regularly get such transfers done for our product prototypes here in Bristol, (United Kingdom). They are about 10 UK pounds per colour, A4 (bit smaller than US letter size) You can get an awful lot of numbers, names, draught marks on that! You can apply them directly to the model if you are feeling lucky, or put them onto come clear varnish decal paper and treat them like normal waterslides. They do not have a great shelf life though, so if thou have several projects in mind, rub them onto decal paper straight away. If you have some graphics capability on your Mac, you should be able to get files to the printer by e.mail. If you have no luck locally, I'll pass on the details of our supplier. Of course, if you WANT that printer, thats a different matter.... Oh, and it doesn't have to be a Mac, either. I use CorelDRAW 7 on a 3 year old PC, for artwork for decals, etchings, illustrations, 3D modelling, and sinking the occasional 'Yamato' with my Commanders Edition of Silent Hunter! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Baker Subject: PIT ROAD PAINT Thanks to all who offered suggestions on how to thin Pit Road's IJN paint. I've tried Diosol (didn't work, made a gummy mess) alchohol (it may mix with water, but it doesn't with Pit Road's paint), water, Testors thinner, and Floquil's acrylic thinner--none worked. Am reluctant to try acetone because: 1) it is dangerous stuff, especially in enclosed spaces, and 2) it does indeed dissolve plastic, which is not quite the effect we are after in modelling . . . By the way, Squadron Signal's "GREEN STUFF" putty does a nice job dissolving the high rubber-content plastic used in Matchbox kits, as I found out to my great unhappiness. Again, thanks, but I'll go on searching for the perfect solvent (it's on the shelf just below the perfect martini). Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: decal printer >> I am looking at getting a new printer to do decals. I have been using the color laser printer at work, but the toner tends to chip and it doesn't do white. I tried using white decal sheets, but it is a bit difficult to trim on really small applications (USCG emblems). I am looking at the Alps MD-1000 or the MD-1300. I really hate buying anything from alps (bad experiences with engineering development types) but these seem to be the only dry transfer printers out there that include white and metalics. My question is: Are there any recommendations as to which of these printers to get? And are there any other printers on the market that will do the same thing? It will be connected to a Mac, of course. << Duane, I use an ALPS MD-1000 to make all my own decals and it works great. Been doing it for over a year (tried all the other options before that). It is slow but I use mine only for decals. The MD-1300 is faster and suposidly a better photo printer but if it's decals you want the MD-1300 is not worth the extra money. Also, I have tried all the decal papers and the one I like best is the one put out by Detail Master for auto modelers. Have not had a problem with any of my decals, including white and the metalics. The go on great with no other preparation except printing them and applying them with water and sometimes a setting solution. GREAT prices on all ALPS products, including printers and supplies, is CMP Express. http://www.cmpexpress.com/store/start/index2.html click browse by manufacturer, then "A". then ALPS Electric If you have any questions I'd be happy to try to answer them. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: National Archives Microfilm info The other day I answered a question about a source for plans for the USS Oregon City, and I believe I listed the web address as nara.com. Sorry! I goofed! :-O The address is http://www.nara.gov. (The National Archives and Records Administration) Their publications area has lots of goodies for the ship modeler. Check 'em out! Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Jack Mc Kie Subject: Buckley Class DE Dear SMML Folks, Thanks for all your responses. I have purchased a Bligh ex Buckley model kit with decals for the Buckley. I am really not a military modeler nor do I do much with plastic,so please excuse my ignorance. Are there any super detail parts available for the Revell Buckley DE??? I am really modeling the USS Solar which was the ship my Dad was on in WWII. Are there any differences in detail between the Buckley and the Solar that would be noticable. I'd appreciate any info and/or suggestions that would help me make a better model of the Solar. BTW the Solar's and my Dads military carreers ended abruptly when the Solar blew up in port. Dad was one of the survivors. Thanks in advance! Jack -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Skywave paints For some reason this post did not go through when I sent it in a couple of days ago. Since the answers are still coming in and don't seem to be in agreement, I try again. Regarding the Skywave colors, the thinner made by Gunze Sanyo called "Mr. Thinner" works very well for these paints. De-natured alcohol also works, but not as well as the Gunze thinner. I have also tried Dio Sol as suggested by Rusty White, and found it can work, but again not very well. The paints tends to thin unevenly with Dio Sol and I did not like the results. Use this as a last resort. Until I setled on Gunze I tried all the other brand names, including some commersial thinners that I stock (that work well for most other hobby paints and are much cheaper than their proprietary thinners) and none of them worked with this paint formula. Some had very bad reactions with the paint, resulting in a curdled effect that was worse than no thinning at all. Of the hobby thinners readily available, DioSol was the only one that even came close to giving an acceptable result. Go with Gunze's "Mr. Thinner" if possible, or de-natured alcohol if you can't get Gunze. De-natured alcohol is available in any good art supply. I recommend a mix of one part paint to two parts thinner for airbrushing. Once this is done the paint works beautifully. This is from experience, not theory. Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Atlanta, Repulse Camo, USN Camo, Missouri Rigging Hi List, Thanks to everyone who posted with help on the USS Atlanta details I was asking about. Looks like my timing on finishing up most of the Atlanta was pretty poor - if only I'd known about the new book on the Atlantas, which sounds really good. On the 1941 camouflage pattern for the Repulse, it looks like the pattern was basically identical port and starboard. The only variation I've seen is on the starboard side; in one photo, the side of the deckhouse that has the after single 4" AA gun is painted the lighter color of her two-color pattern, and in another it's painted the darker color. The port side of that deckhouse seems to have always been painted in the lighter color. I presume the lighter color was 507C light grey, but I'm really not sure about the darker color; it's usually said to have been 507A dark grey, but to me it seems darker than that, almost as dark as black or MS1. Regarding sources for USN camouflage patterns of WWII, I think the best sources in general are the two Floating Drydock books, the articles by Del Palmieri (when you can find them), and most recently, the articles by Alan Raven in Plastic Ship Modeler. There is a set of color chips from the Floating Drydock, and a much more extensive set was put out recently by John Snyder and Randy Short. The book on the Fletcher, Sumner and Gearing class destroyers by Jeff Herne and published by Alan Raven has most of the patterns on the the ships of those classes, and the Floating Drydock sells a very large number of the patterns used by USN ships in the war for a nominal sum per sheet. On the rigging of the USS Missouri, I would think that the planbook put out by the Floating Drydock would be the best source, though I don't have it myself. The Floating Drydock planbook on the Fletchers had a lot of information on rigging. Cheers, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Ralph E. Batykefer, Jr." Subject: CV-42 USS Roosevelt I have heard there is a model representing the CV-42 USS Roosevelt possibly made by Revell? If not what model can be modified to represent the ship as she was in the early 70's. Also is there photoetch available to represent this era of the ship? What aircraft are represented with the kit and the quantity of each aircraft? And finally, where can I get the stuff??? Sorry for the number of questions, but I have not seen the model and have a friend who wants it. Thanks fellow wave makers, Ralph Batykefer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: Scharnhorst camouflage scheme. Hi all, Any ideas about interesting Scharnhorst's camo scheme in 1943? I'm going to build this ballteship and I'd like to finish her in great appear. Damian Pliszka -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Jim McCormick" Subject: Tamiya Fletcher Recent conversation about the best kit to start with has prompted me to go down to the old kit locker, and dust off my Tamiya Fletcher. I have just joined the hull and the deck(I found a gap only in one place, easily filled with .010 card stock. My question is this: Should I remove the davits and chocks? I need to do this to in order to clean up the seam between the deck and hull. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! Jim McCormick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "A. P. Suess" Subject: Modelers Boatyard Announcement The Modelers Boatyard at http://www.modelersboatyard.com now has Alan Raven & Jeffery Hernes newsest book "Warship Perspectives - Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers in World War II. Visit the page at: http://www.modelersboatyard.com/Books/warship_perspectives.htm Upcoming releases will also be available through this same page. Tony The Modelers Boatyard http://www.modelersboatyard.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: Re: Gunze aqueous thinner In response to Dave Baker's query about Gunze thinner for the Pitroad Ships' Colors, we have the Gunze thinner in stock (it's been listed in our catalog for several years) in both large and medium sizes. Thanks, Bill Gruner http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume