Subject: SMML18/09/98VOL306 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:36:25 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS EXETER 2: New book: U-boat fact file. 3: Re:Renwall Kits 4: Re: Bismarck Turret Colors 5: Sumner FRAM 6: RMS Carpathia 7: Titanic Model 8: Airfix Vote Update 9: Re: Hood Model Kits:Need More Inputs- 10: Floater net dimensions 11: IJN green paint schemes 12: round Russian color 13: "gifts" 14: Re: Pasadena or Springfield 15: Re: Exeter 16: Re: Floats and Rafts 17: airstrike aircraft 18: Re: Hood Model Kits:Need More Inputs- 19: Re: Prinz Eugen & Bismarck 20: Casting materials -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Navismagazine.com - September issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Whitney, Floyd - MAJ" Subject: HMS EXETER In answer to the question about the colors for the Matchbox HMS EXETER, I offer the following. The product codes for the colors refer to the Humbrol Authentic range. a = HN.1, Light Grey b = HM.11, Black c = 30/MJ Dark Green d = HB.8, Dark Slate Grey e = HN.4, Deck Bleached Teak f = 25/M11, Blue g = MC.13, White Floyd Whitney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Foeth" Subject: New book: U-boat fact file. I just returned from a study trip to most of the major scandinavian maritime companies (Stood on the bridge of the largest container vessel of the world), and found a book which is very interesting for U-boat fanatics. It's title "U-boat, fact file" says it all; it contains, of EACH U-boat, the name of their commanders, and dates, constructor, keel/launch/comission date, which units they sailed in, where they patrolled, ALL ships they sunk (Name, displacement, date, position, if known), special notes (Crewman washed overboard, etc), and it's fate. That's 182 pages of pure information! Also, in the appendices, each Knight-Cross recipient is mentioned (4 pages), all types of U-boat get a brief desciption (6 pages), refuelling operations are treated (3 pages), U-boat Map quandrant is explained (2 pages), U-boat arm (1 page), Non-finished U-boats (5 pages). I spend $50 on the book in copenhagen, but books tend to be more expensive in the scandinavian countries. I knew that, but couldn't leave it in the bookstore (says 16,95 pounds sterling/approx $25.00 on the rear cover). Definite buy for infophiles. Title: U-boat, fact file Author: Peter Shape Publisher: Midland Publishing Ltd 24 The Hollow, Earl Shilton Leicester, LE9 7NA, Great Brittain midlandbooks@compuserve.com ISBN: 1 85780 072 9 Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re:Renwall Kits HI: Was wondering; I've seen reference to a number of old Renwall ship kits, mostely cruisers. How good or bad are these kits? Are they generally worth doing, or just more trouble than they are worth? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Bismarck Turret Colors >> Modellers and artists have been painting the main and/or secondary turret tops yellow, allegedly an air-recognition measure. I have been skeptical of this, although the theory originated from one radio transmission from a British observation aircraft which noted "Bismarck's turret roofs and gun shields painted bright yellow." I submit that the yellow turret top theory is incorrect. << I'm along way from an expert here but I believe the yellow turret tops indicated the particular campaign such as Baltic. A friend of mine who knows a bit about the Bismarck mentioned this. Air recognition? If they couldn't see the Bismarck with those huge swastikas on the bow and stern they better get some glasses for those pilots. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Sumner FRAM >> If your converting, how about a FRAM conversion for Tom's and/or BWN's Sumner and Gearing DD models? For that matter, given the hulls are so close, how about a conversion of the Tamiya Fletcher DD into a Sumner FRAM? Basically, give me a Sumner FRAM.... please! I spent 8 years on these ships and I'd love to model one. << Jim Shirley Productions makes a Sumner/Gearing FRAM in 1/700. A good, accurate hull and superstructure. However, the fit of the PE parts isn't too great and what little PE you get isn't enough to do the models. I used Flagship Models Knox class frigate detail set to outfit mine. Jim Shirley also produces a Sumner/Gearing in 1/350 scale. I don't know if they made the FRAM. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: RMS Carpathia Here's some info on the Carpathia: Keel laid in 1902 and maiden voyage was May 5, 1903 Liverpool to Boston run. She had two sisters that were slightly larger - the Saxonia and Ivernia. She has 4 masts and a pronounced sheer from bow to stern. She led a pretty mundane career until that fateful morning of April 15, 1912 when she resuced Titanic survivors. Memorabilia such as menus, passenger lists, etc. command prices as high as Titanic memorabilia. She was sunk July 17, 1918 by a U-boat off of Bishop's Rock, Ireland. Three torpedos hit her and 5 crew members in her boiler room were killed. Built by Swan & Hunter Limited, New Castle, England. 13,603 gross tons. 558 feet long, 64 ft wide. Steam quadruple expansion engines with twin screws. Service speed 14 knots. 1,704 passengers (204 first class, 1,500 third class). Source - A Picture History of the Cunard Line 1940 - 1990, by Frank O. Braynard and William H. Miller, Jr. Dover Publications, Inc. New York Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Titanic Model I have the 1/350 kit in my closet awaiting its turn in that shipyard located in my basement. However, there are a lot of folks building that kit, so many that a web-site dedicated to it has been created. Check it out at : http://titanic-model.com/ It is quite impressive. Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Airfix Vote Update Ok. We are a little past the half way mark in the Airfix Vote time frame and I am sad to say that voter turnout is not what I had hoped for. So far I have received votes from 17 SMMLers. Current leaders: New Kits -- HMS Invincible & HMS Renown 6 votes ea. Re-issue -- HMS Hood - 6 votes. Now there are roughly a little more than 1,000 SMML subcribers out there. I was hoping for a 10% voter turnout, say about 100. As you can see, that goal is far from being hit. Please drop me a line at felix.bustelo@ny.frb.org with at least one vote for a new subject and a re-issue of a kit that we haven't seen in a while, along with the city, state/province and country where you live. Thanks, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Hood Model Kits:Need More Inputs- >> Thanks for the inputs I've received so far. I'm still trying to find out a bit more though. Does anyone have any information (kit quality, etc.) or photos (assembled/unassembled, etc.) of the following HMS Hood kits: Airfix 1/600 Hood (need photos only) Figurehead 1/6000 Hood << Is this really 1/6000? >> GHQ 1/2400 Hood Heller 1/400 Hood (need photos only) Iron Shipwrights 1/350 Hood Italieri 1/720 Hood (need photos only) Lindbergh Hood (need some background info on this one..scale, date isssued, etc.) Tamiya 1/700 -Well covered...need no inputs White Ensign Models 1/350 Hood- Well covered..need no inputs Am I missing anything (I know that there are also card models. I'm assembling that list now) << Don't forget the Airfix 1/1200 kit. Did Eaglewall/Pyro ever do the Hood? I'm sure Superior did the Hood in 1/1200, as has probably many other companies. But the Airfix and Pyro kits would be plastic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Floater net dimensions >> Looking at the Doc Data comment again, I realize I didn't answer the mail. While I thought I had seen a better answer in an earlier volume, the nets were intended to float when a ship sank and would give the crew something to hang on to until help arrived. Basically they were a hemp net with large (6 to 12 inches I would guess) cork cylinders attached for floatation. << For what it's worth, "FLETCHER Class Plans Book" from The Floating Drydock has an illustration of part of a floater "net", and the following dimensions are given: diameter of float = 5", length = 10.5 ", the floats are listed as being made of foam, and they are strung together by a hemp line at an interval of about 8". Again, there is no net per se, just a line connecting the floats together. I think this is interesting but esoteric information unless you want to duplicate the floater net baskets in a larger scale, such as 1/200 or 1/192. I've done this for a 1/192 FLETCHER class DD, and I think the baskets and nets look both "busy" and convincing. Just took a bit of time. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: IJN green paint schemes The only 'references' I've seen to the IJN green paint schemes are the following: - Box art for waterline Junyo, Unryu, Zuikaku & Shinano kits and a resin Zuiho kit - Built up Shinano and Zuikaku in the Tamiya catalog (interestingly the Junyo is grey) - Mention of late war carriers being painted green in one of the ship histories printed on the instructions of one of the above kits (can't remember which) - A scratchbuilt Zuikaku which was on display at the USS Intrepid museum in NYC when I last visited (2 years ago). From the above resources, the paint scheme looked to be either a single shade of green or large block-shaped areas in two shades of green (see the Zuikaku box art) depending on the ship. The green schemes are always depicted on late war carriers. I was always wondering why there has been no further mention of this scheme in any reliable sources (i.e. books). I once saw a color photo of the capsized Amagi after the war and expected it to be green, but was somewhat disappointed when it was grey. The following Web site: http://www2.gol.com/users/billlise/jnp/battleships/ww2bb/yamato/yamatohull.html mentions a green paint being used for the hull below the waterline in place of the usually dark red near the end of the war. Could this have also been used for the rest of the ship also? Nevertheless, I have built up the Junyo, Zuikaku, Katsuragi and Zuiho in slightly differing shades of green and think they look wonderful. They are a nice change to the blue and greys mostly used on ships. And surprisingly, they don't look out of place or too strange among the other models. I matched the green color as close as I could to the colors displayed on the box art as well as what Tamiya used in their catalog. Anyone else have any more information? Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: round Russian color Here's an out-of-the-way question. I'm interested in scratching the round Russian battleships Novgorod and Popov. Anyone have a clue how Russian ships were painted in the 1880s? Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: "gifts" Hi guys.... Just received two old kits from a friend as "gifts"...I'm wondering what the intel on them is....my guess is that it is not going to be good...The kits are: Revell double kit - Ark Royal (post war by the looks of it?) and a Tribal class destroyer Ashanti...both claimed at 1/720 Monogram - DMK Tirpitz - already started (by a four year old from the looks of it) would need to disassemble and rebuild from whatever I dont break taking it apart....I'm guessing the scale is in the 1/600 - 1/700 range... So how accurate are these? anybody even give them a try? Thanks, Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Pasadena or Springfield Paul Grace wrote: >> Retro Converting Renwall/Revell 1/600 Pasadena or Springfield CGLs to original CL configuration. That is a full W.W.II Cleveland Class gun cruiser. I have the 1/700 WL early Cleveland and the Lindberg USS Columbia CL-56. Now that I finally got my hands on these kits, would like to try this modification and would appreciate any help. << First thing: The Renwal/Revell kits were 1/500, not 1/600. Measure them, they're reasonably close. As for converting them to WWII cruisers, that might be the best thing for them anyway. They're not that accurate as CLGs. You'll need an extra pair of 6 inch turrets, (whether scratch-built, resin/RTV copies of the two forward ones or pieces stolen from other kits) and whole bunches of 40mm and 20mm guns in 1/500. Exact configuration of the 40mm and 20mm may vary from ship to ship. You'll also need catapults, seaplanes, & suitable radars. Possible Sources. 1) The ubiquitous Revell 1/535 Missouri. The 40mm guns are half decent, and could probably be made to work. The catapults aren't that great, but could do in a pinch. The aircraft bear a faint resemblance to Curtis Seahawks, but I don't advise using them. The 20mm guns from this kit are useless. 2) The rare Renwal North Carolina. Presumably, this will have 40mm and 20mm guns, catapults and aircraft, all in the correct scale. I have no first hand experience with the kit, and I can't tell you how good the parts are. Since this kit is quite rare, you'll probably have trouble finding one. 3) The recently re-issued 1/480 Revell USS Helena. It has tolerable 40mm guns, and half decent catapults. It will not provide 20mm guns. 40mm guns may be too big to fit in the splinter shields. 4) Revell 1/570 North Carolina. Some say that the 20mm guns are over-scale, which would make them about right for your cruiser. Easier to find than a Renwal NC...... As for the rest of the ship, the superstructure is fairly close for a WWII Cleveland class CL. The 6 inch guns are really nice. As I said above, you'll need two extra turrets. Number 4 goes into the aft Terrier hole, and build a barbette above the more forward Terrier hole for turret number 3. The 5 inch guns are too long, but easy to cut down to size. In many cases, you'll be able to directly replace the 3 inch twins with 40mm quads directly. No problem there, the AA guns varied from ship to ship. Check your resources! Other things to fix: Get rid of the molded-into-the-deck plastic railings! They look pretty silly. Buy yourself some photoetch if you really want railings. I think that GMM makes a set for 1/500ish Revell carriers that should be close enough. Then there's the stuff below the waterline. You do like carving plastic, don't you? ;-) Of course, the real problem will be disposing of your spare Terrier launchers and 3 inch guns. I'll take them off your hands, and make sure they're disposed of properly. ;-) David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Re: Exeter Yohan Fernando asked about pruchasing 1/700 Matchbox models of Ariadne and Exeter. White Ensign Models has both Ariadne and Exeter available (that's where I got my kits). Ariadne retails for 15 pounds and Exeter 24 pounds. About the Kelly, WEM doesn't list the Matchbox Kelly, but they are announcing a resin Kelly in 1/700 for release real soon (it's listed in the WEM price list) and it should be a vast improvement over the Matchbox offering. Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Floats and Rafts Doc Data stated: >> I sure hate to sound this ignorant but after a 20 year career in the Navy, I cannot remember, even once, anyone referring to 'floater baskets' so I have to ask... what are they? << Not a problem, as they were pretty much a WW2 expedient and would not have lasted much longer than hostilities at the time required. Bob Steinbrunn's comprehensive comments need no amplification. The contemporary equivalent of the floater nets in the USN are the plastic barrels hanging off the side of just about all ships. These are, of course, encapsulated life rafts which are designed to self-inflate at a certain shallow depth. I can still vividly remember the time when, as a deck officer on USS Pyro, we took several of the things to a workshop at Mare Island Naval Shipyard to test and see if they worked as intended. The results were not encouraging! Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Mark Seitz Subject: airstrike aircraft Dear Caroline, I was wondering how much of a market there is for aircraft to outfit the Revell Yorktown? With Bob Ballard's discovery and photographing of her this year, there may be renewed interest in this famous ship. I am planning to build this kit, and the limited airgroup of dauntless-esque aircraft provided beg for improvement. How about some Devastators, wildcats, hellcats (for Enterprise versions), or even some F3F's with the devastators for a prewar version? The dauntless type things could easily double as BT-1's. Anyway, just my 2 pence. Keep up the good work. regards, Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: tsai@syntest.com (Finney Tsai) Subject: Re: Hood Model Kits:Need More Inputs- >> Thanks for the inputs I've received so far. I'm still trying to find out a bit more though. Does anyone have any information (kit quality, etc.) or photos (assembled/unassembled, etc.) of the following HMS Hood kits: Iron Shipwrights 1/350 Hood << Hi I had done a careful comparison between WEM's 1/350 Hood and Iron Shipwrights' 1/350 one. I bought the IS Hood as I found it fit my taste better. Here are what I have found... when no company name is mentioned, I am referring to the Hood by IS: The most impressive part of the IS'es Hood is the single casting hull. It is just better than WEM's. Period. The details are better, more accurate. Even WEM does nail the upper and the low hulls together for you, the IS'es single hull is still a notch above. Shape-wise, I would say both look about right. I didn't have the time to measure them and compare the numbers with a plan. The bridge has some minor errors but all are easy to fix. Again, the superstructure has better details when WEM's Hood has lots of photo etched parts to make up what is not there. The boating deck is another jewel. It is shaped like a big single plate with many fine details on it. I still have no idea how IS made a part this big and thin in resin when the warpage was still under control. Weapons... both kits' main guns are fairly nice (yep, IS'es turret has many rivets, too, though I am not sure if the number of the rivets is correct when WEM claims theirs is) WEM's pom-pom gun uses more photo etched parts but both will give you equally impressive results. WEM's small parts have cleaner castings but with adequate cleaning-up, you can do wonder with IS'es parts, too. Oh, I love those neat little boats! WEM's Hood shines with its photo etched parts... four big frets in total. But to be frank, I have the feeling that either due to the cost control or due to the limit of their resin casting technic, WEM has to sacrifice the details on the resin parts, and instead, to use PE parts to add the details back. Personally I like IS'es approach better. If you could do it right in resin, then you should do it in resin. PE parts are used to enhance the details, not to make up the lost details. Oh, I'd love to have those PE degaussing lines from WEM! To sum up, IS'es Hood has an impressive and accurate single hull, and better overall details in resin. WEM's Hood has an accurate bridge, range finders...etc, and lots of PE parts. If you want to build a big Hood straight out of the box, WEM's is the one to get. If you want to get an accurate Hood and don't mind correcting minor errors, you will have to get the IS one. Iron Shipwrights has not been very aggressive on doing those marketing things. This is why not many people have heard of their Hood. This is very unfortunate because their Hood is at least as good as WEM's. The good news is both WEM and IS have made lots of progresses since they released the Hood. Look at WEM's new Sheffield, obviously they have got the trick to do the single hull right. Iron Shipwrights, IMHO, is still the best on making huge resin parts. Their new Rodney is simply gorgeous!! Sure, BWN and Classical Warships are great companies, too! Mmmm... Ok, you can call BWN the best. When you come to the 1/700 scale, there are Corsair Armada, Hi-Mold, and Samek... etc. We ship modelers are surely very lucky today! :) finney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen & Bismarck Hello SMMLers, A "well done" to David Krakow for going to the Prinz Eugen reunion and doing so much careful first-hand research. Nice work! I hope David will see to it that the photographs he mentioned are published somewhere. Garzke & Dulin have finished a new book on the Bismarck that is with the Naval Institute right now (hint, hint). On the neverending saga of the color of the Bismarck's turret tops, I would point out that an article by Hans Gally in Warship Vol. IX states that the Bismarck's turret tops (15" and 5.9") were painted yellow on May 26, that is, after she had parted company with the Prinz Eugen and was hoping to be within range of the Luftwaffe in a few hours (hence the recognition aspect of the yellow, which would not have been exactly prudent until then). The question for me is whether the turret tops were painted carmine or grey from 21 May through 25 May, and I understand David's interviews with the men of the Prinz Eugen to provide the answer that grey was the color. I know someone will disagree, so it's time to duck now.... Best regards, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Michael Kear Subject: Casting materials The discussion of various resins prompted me to ask ... .a friend of mine once told me that he uses Plasti-bond (car body filler) thinned down almost to the consistency of cream to cast with. Has anyone else tried using this material? Does it have any advantages/disadvantages over resins? He uses RTV to make his moulds and apparently they last indefinitely. Cheers, Mike Kear, Windsor, NSW, Australia Task Force 72 Australia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Navismagazine.com - September issue September 1998: - EXCLUSIVE!! Secrets of modern Russian submarines revealed!! (Twelve 1/200 models built by a Russian master modeler from original plans plus never-before-published photographs of the real things!!!) - 1/48 Fiat C.R.32 built from the new Classic Airframes kit - 1/700 Arleigh Burke - part III - Grumman F3F walkaround - Polish Navy KASZUB Missile Corvette walk-around - 1/72 Messerschmitt 163S built from the new MPM kit - Weathering ships - Classic kit: Revell 1/72 Fiat C.R.42 - Classic kit: Revell 1/400 USS Norton Sound - 1/700 T-class WWII British submarine PLUS THE USUAL COLUMNS: - Modeler Profile - Model Showcase - On the market (product reviews) - Naval reconnnaissance - News from the kit industry - New Books - Letters - Bulletin Board No other publication either in print or on the internet brings you as many ship construction articles per year as Navismagazine.com, the largest scale model site in the world. And that's only HALF of the magazine!! Check out the content of our back issues, always available to subscribers. http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume