Subject: SMML23/09/98VOL311 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:28:20 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: London model shops 2: Re: HMS Ark Royal 3: Re: IJN Green paint CV's 4: Best Atlanta Class Model 5: GMM URL 6: USS Arizona 7: Bismarck Blotches 8: Re: painting 9: Re: 1/600 Queen Elizabeth, etc...Airfix kits 10: Indoor spraying 11: Re: Airbrush Ventilation 12: Re: Atlanta kit 13: GMM address and web page 14: USS Arizona details 15: USS Arizona Decks 16: Green hulls 17: RE: 1/500 18: 'Static' model cases. 19: Flowers 20: Air Brush Techniques At Home 21: Re: Bismark turret colors 22: Photographic reproduction of colors 23: FLOWERS FOREVER again 24: Re: Rusty Ships 25: USS Iowa 26: Re: Hull Colours 27: Re: Hull Colours & Arizona? 28: Re: Carrier Hull 29: Re: USS Forrestal/anti-fouling paint 30: Re: hanger deck colours 31: Re: Bismark on Film 32: Re: Fletcher Variations 33: Re: Heller Paint Numbers 34: Re: Yet More on the Flowers 35: 5"/38 caliber open gun mounts 36: Bismarck colours more yellow proof??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Matchbox kits - ATTN MR CHAMBERS 2: Attn: Aussies The Liners -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: London model shops >> The best ship stockist I have found in London is in Nelson Road, Greenwich (turn left as you come out of the National Maritime Museum and it is a couple of hundred yards on the north side of the road. I forget the name but it has a decent collection of all scales. Almost opposite, also on Nelson Road, is a good second hand bookshop stocking naval subjects. You might also investigate Hannants (although it is more of a mecca for the wingy types), which has a website at www.hannants.co.uk which I think contains lists. Their London store is in Colindale, near Hendon and a map and directions are on the website. Turn right out of the Colindale underground station and it is about 50 yards away as I recall. << I was in Hannants last Wednesday, and no there really isn't a lot to keep the ship modeller happy, the Monogram 1/350th Missouri for example, but otherwise nothing interesting for the ship person. I on the other hand being highly schizophrenic had a great time, dispatching my wife to find Decal sheets, PE brass sets for 1/48th aircraft and generally help me dispose of a fair chunk of money. Aren't wives wonderful! Oh while on the subject of London, a trip to the Science Museum is highly recommended, in the Naval section there are a superb collection of models of liners, and some RN Naval stuff. The highlight for me was the 1/48th Builders model of RMS Queen Elizabeth, a superb piece of work! Apologies to those who know London better than I, but I had no idea these models were there, (I actually went to see the Apollo Command Module!) Colin Ritchie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: jpoutre@lehman.com (Joseph Poutre) Subject: Re: HMS Ark Royal >> In Warship 1990, there appeared an artikel by Roger Nailer on Aircraft to Malta. It contained some fine photos of ARK ROYAL which seem to show her in a two or three tone painting scheme with a dark pennal carried on the lower part of the hull, alight hull and dark island and funnel. Photos taken of ARK ROYAL shortly before she sank also show a dark pennal painted over the lower third of her hull while the upper part is splintered with light and dark gray (- or is painted light gray which is already washed off again, showing the dark gray it was painted over?). Can anyone provide more information about that paint scheme? << As I am building the Revell 1/720 I would also be interested in her paint scheme, specifically at the time of the Bismarck chase. I also need a layout of the AA guns. I bought the excellent (though nervewracking in their detail and size :-) White Ensign PE pom-poms and need to know what guns go where. The lousy ones that are moulded into the model give no indication of what they represent. Thanks in advance, Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Kristoffer.Lindh@alcatel.fr Subject: Re: IJN Green paint CV's The Monografie Morskie #3 of the Shokaku/Zuikaku has a (poor) photo of the Zuikaku in green camouflage, and a colour page of profiles of the same ship (port, starboard, deck). As for the Tamiya kit of the Zuikaku, Tamiya gives a colour scheme quite close to the above reference (that they should be identical is of course too much to ask) and also colour mixes in their own paint range. The sides of the ship are in a pattern of: Light green 1 part XF-53 Neutral Grey 1 part XF-5 Green Dark green 1 part XF-63 German Grey 1 part XF-5 Green with the deck camouflaged in: Dark Green as above German grey XF63 Deck Tan XF-55 IJN Grey 2 part XF-53 Neutral Grey 1 part XF-63 German Grey I dare say these are the colours used in their catalogue. The mixes are suspiciously simple, but it seems a good a way as any to get started. Apparently many (most?) japanese carriers had schemes in green (overall or patterns) with their decks in patterns of grey, green and tan (light green?) during the last half of 1944. I have yet to hear of a "green" carrier at war's end. I don't know if it is relevant but the correspondence on Akitsushima recently also mentioned two greens and a very dark grey. Now XF-63 is very dark. Same colours? I have never seen a source I could read treat this matter (I don't know what's written in the few japanese books I do have), but there must be a body of knowledge somewhere to give rise to all these kit instructions and box arts. By the way, Greg Ogilvie proposed a relevant article to a website. How did this work out? Does somebody know of a website in English on this subject? Or any other european language for that matter? Kristoffer Lindh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Best Atlanta Class Model Hi Robert, >> I'm seriously considering purchasing an Atlanta class cruiser model (probably the most beautiful cruiser design of the war) and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions about which model is of better quality, the Gulfstream Atlanta or the Blue Water Navy Atlanta? << All of the Gulfstream patterns have been sold to Steve Wiper at Classic Warships, and are not in production as far as I know. Unless you are able to find a pre-sale Gulfstream kit, the only one available in 1/350 is the BWN kit. Jon Warneke Iron Shipwrights "Yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: GMM URL Try goldmedl@rockisland.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Michael Connelley Subject: USS Arizona Hello: This is regarding Tomcat's and Denis Campbell's questions on Arizona. 1) My reference (USS Arizona: Ship's Data, A Photographic History...I got this at the USS Arizona Memorial back home) clearly shows wood decks in two shots. I would estimate that the width of each plank is about 100mm. Her decks were wood from bow to stern except for superstructure decks and the areas under the anchor chains. As far as how to make you model look like it's wood, I would like to know how to do that too. I'm gonna start on either the 1/429 Arizona or 1/700 Yamato soon. 2) The USS Arizona served initially in the atlantic fleet then in the Pacific fleet. Ships in the pacific fleet had to carry much more fuel oil...which is also why she burned so long at Pearl Harbor and why she's still leaking oil today. She was designed in 1912 and laid down on March 16, 1914. She never went over to Europe duing WW1 since Arizona was one of the Navy's first oil burning ships and the Navy didn't have refuelers. In accordance with the Washington treaty she was refitted in 1929. At that time her superstructure was modified (in other words she finally got one), she got her tripods and fighting tops replacing the cage masts, her deck armor and torpedo defence was strengthened,the maximum elevation of her guns was increased and her fuel oil capacity was greatly increased. Her last refitting period was in Jan of 1941 where she got the birdbath on top of the main mast. Throughout her carreer her AA was strengthened in a somewhat hapazard manner and considering airpower in WW2 would not have been effective. Anyway she joined the pacific fleet in 1921. Her carreer was uneventful (except for her loss of course). At the time of her loss she had never fired her main batteries in combat. If you're ever in Hawaii the USS Arizona memorial has tons of info on the ship as well as some really nice models of her. Going out to see her is pretty special in its own way. For the past few months the USS Missouri has been moored right behind Arizona (about where USS Maryland was on Dec 7) and is quite a sight to see. Missouri is being restored and the plan is to make her and the Arizona the center of a larger naval museum on Ford Island. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Foeth" Subject: Bismarck Blotches The Bismacrk blotches under caesar turret look very much like something pumped overboard from deck height. I have a picture of her on the 21st of may and somewhere in march 1941, showing the same pattern of fouling. It looks like two streaks, not one. The first is on the same spot as that hatch on the hull, altough the other originates from deck height. Tirpitz also shows signs of fouling from that hatch, so perhaps it was used for dumping wastes. I can't see where the other streak of fouling is originating from. But the fouling seemingly does not wash of in heavy seas. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: painting Fredrik Tholander had some questions on building and painting models: I build 1/700 kits and generally follow the following steps: I generally build the hull and major superstructure first (i.e. parts that aren't easily broken off by alot of handling or masking). I then use an airbrush to paint the built-up hull. All camoflage is generally done with the airbrush and careful maskiing. Large deck spaces are also done this way, while smaller decks such as on destroyers and in the many nooks and crannies on other ships are done by brush. For carriers, I keep the hull and the flight deck seperate until after I've done all the painting for both, then I put them together. It's easier to do I live in an apartment but have always done the airbrushing on my kitchen table- just use newspaper to cover the table and a good sized cardboard box to do all the spraying in. I use Tamiya paints so have no problems with fumes. For the remaining small pieces I do the reverse- paint them first by brush, then assemble them to the hull- small superstructure pieces, directors, medium and large AA guns, secondary guns, main guns. I save all the more delicate work for the end (masts, aerials, light AA guns, davits etc) where there is little further need for moving the model around. Touch up is all done by brush. I would think you could do pretty much the same for 1/350. An airbrush is a necessity in my opinion. Not only does it give a superior even coat than brushing, it is also quicker and saves paint. Also, remember that airbrushing is nothing like spraypainting (which I would never to indoors). When done properly, airbrushing should not be very messy at all and can easily be done indoors. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: Re: 1/600 Queen Elizabeth, etc...Airfix kits Probably the best source for Airfix kits would be White Ensign Models in England...we have a hard time getting a decent supply over here. They might have out-of-production kits, too. Contact Dave or Caroline Carter at: xdt22@dial.pipex.com Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Indoor spraying Fredrik was asking about spraying indoors and how to do it. Good question. Reminds me of an early attempt at indoor spraying that was years ahead, and almost as lethal as, the Tokyo subway gassing. I was in my apartment kitchen when I sprayed Floquil,( older Floquil must be thinned with Diosol, the industrial byproduct of the pesticide Dioxin ;) out of a Badger Basic Spraygun. (the one that gives a two foot spray cone at all settings). The yellowish cloud that enveloped me reminded me of accounts of the first World War, I think it was the Battle of the Somme. I managed to stagger out of there, with I'm sure, fewer working brain cells, but the ones that were left decided not to repeat that experiment. First, his query about whether spraying produces a superior finish to brushing. In most cases, yes, spraying will give better results, but I have seen 100% brush painted ship models that were excellent in every way. I wish I could do it. In my opinion, excellent brush painting is a much more desirable skill; in fact, spraying could be seen as the quick and easy way to get a good finish without much work. Of course,the drawbacks of the typical brush paint job is brushmarks and obscured fine details from too thick paint. However, I've determined that one feature of spraying that you can't get from brushing is a certain alignment of the paint molecules on the model surface. I theorize that these molecules "stack" vertically and grow like crystals when sprayed.(less so when brushed) When you hold a dried sprayed matte surface under direct sunlight you get a kind of prismatic reflective sheen that looks great. But under indoor light this effect is not obvious. So what does this mean? I don't know, but I think its a neat theory anyway. As to indoor spraying, I suggest you perform a study of the draft patterns within your flat, and try spraying out an open window where the draft exits. Living in Sweden, you may find this uncomfortable in the winter months! At the least, spray with the relatively less toxic acrylic paints and buy and use a respirator. And just think of how cool a mottled grey coffee table would look. JG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Airbrush Ventilation The trick is to ventilate the work area when airbrushing. You must have an operating window in your flat somewhere. I would suggest setting up a table under the window and placing a box fan in the window during your airbrushing sessions. The airbrush spray will go right in the fan and out of your flat. If it's cold (this is Norway) the fan will draw the out and not the cold in. It shouldn't get too cold for the short period of time the fan is running. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Atlanta kit >> I'm seriously considering purchasing an Atlanta class cruiser model (probably the most beautiful cruiser design of the war) and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions about which model is of better quality, the Gulfstream Atlanta or the Blue Water Navy Atlanta? << I may be prejudiced here and theres no doubt Gulfstream makes a fine kit. I don't own one of MBs Atlantas, but I have never seen or built an MB Model that I didn't just love. Including the new Yorktown "cooooooooool". Take it for what it's worth. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Duane Fowler Subject: GMM address and web page Hello Mike, The web address for Gold Medal Models is: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/onetrack/GoldMM.htm The mailing address is: Route 2, Box 3104, Lopez, Washington 98261, USA and the e-mail address is: goldmedl@rockisland.com And by the way, what's the web address for the "Yamato Club"? I think that there might be a few of us interested in it. Cheers, Duane (Yamatoholic) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Mark Seitz Subject: USS Arizona details Denis, The Arizona did have wooden decks, at least the main and forecastle decks were wooden. As far as how to replicate it in 1/720...ya got me. I'm building (another) in the 1/470? scale, and the decks have raised lines to represent the planking detail. Best of luck, Mark Seitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Duane Fowler Subject: USS Arizona Decks Hello Dennis, The main decks of the Arizona were wooden like all other battleships. They were holy stoned regularly and so would be a good deck tan. I am not not familiar with the Revell 1/720 kit, but if you really want a good effect, you might go all out and cut away the original decks and then use the finest scribed evergreen sheets. Good luck and best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Green hulls When USS Bowfin was drydocked most recently, she was bright green below the waterline. The techs told me it was an improved version of red lead, except that it was ... ahem... GREEN. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Eduardo Mitchell Subject: Re: 1/500 >> Also, re. a personal request, we WILL be doing the following in 1/400 Scale GRUMMAN S2-A Tracer << >> I'd be interesting in seeing these, too! In 1/400, i'd like to get A-4 Skyhawks and Super Etendards for my 25deMayo/Arromanches. Trying to get the Arii set from Japan, but no luck so far! << YESS! Put me down for 14 A-4 and 8 S-2 in 1/400 for my two Heller Arromanches conversions V-1 "ARA Independencia" and V-2 "ARA 25 de Mayo". While we are at it, what about F4U-5 Corsairs (I want 16) and Sikorski SH-3 Sea King (6 please), then my air groups would be almost complete! Cheers, Eduardo Mitchell (IPMS Sweden) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: 'Static' model cases. Hi SMMLies, Just want to add my voice to Yohan Fernando when he sings Pacific Front Hobbies excellent service - World wide! Living in Britain I regularly purchase from Bill and have received efficient fast, friendly service. Similarly, for UK purchasers particularly, WEM offer an excelent service here but do not necessarily carry all the kits which are available from the States. Keep up the good work Bill and CaroDave! Again, thanks to David and Glenn for their comments on taking anti-static measures with polystyrene display cases. I will try the Tandy 'can' first of all and if not successful (horror of horrors) join the wife and go supermarket shopping.....! Regards, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Flowers >> Its that ship again! Despite all the groans that may ensue the Flower class Corvette has made it again. I started building mine some months ago but now must agree with those , at the time ,who said that it's a long way short of being a great kit! (good,but not great.) For all those who are about to start or are thinking of trying it I would advise against PE railings. This wonderful product which works so well in the "3-figure" scales just doesn't look right at 1/72nd. My solution has been to use turned brass stanchions intended for R/C boats, I've found that 12mm tall 3-bar stanchions are perfect and fine copper wire for the rails. << Thanks for the tip, I'll try that one out. I've received my resin detailling kits by Sirmar by now. I'm afraid to say that they are awful, all detail is very blurred, lots of bubbles and lots of sanding. Probably the molds are just worn out. There is one good thing on it, at least they give some kind of idea how all those fittings and weapons looked like, instead of being some lump of plastic like the original kit parts. At least I have a basis to start working on it, and with a bit of kit-bashing it is possible to make something presentable. Erwin PS; Hi, Burl, did you find your copy of Model Shipwright yet, with the article on the Popov? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Air Brush Techniques At Home Hello Fredrik, It's been a long time since I was in Göteborg! What a great place! As far as painting goes, I think that you will find as many techniques as there are people on this list. For me, I paint some parts before assembly and some parts after. And some parts with an air brush and some parts with a standard brush. I look at the total construction process and decide which parts can be assembled as a sub assembly and then painted as a whole. Major parts which would require touching up or filling with putty are assembled first. This allows the filling and smoothing of seams and other imperfections. Finer parts like 20mm and 40 mm deck guns can be painted first and then paced. In general, if it looks like it will be difficult or impossible to paint after a part is assembled, paint it before assembly. This method ends up building some, painting some, building some, painting some... but gives good results. When deciding whether to use and air brush or paint brush I look at the parts to be painted. If it is a large area where brush marks would be obvious, I use the air brush. If it is a small detail or something that would be impossible to mask, I use a standard brush. Air brushes are more difficult to use and clean (especially clean!) and require more preparations and mixing of paints, but give a superior effect and tend not to fill in fine detail as much. As to methods of airbrushing in a flat, I recommend that you build a paint hood. This essentially is a five sided box that is vented to the outside. You can build it from anything (cardboard, wood, metal) but remember that you need for it to be well lit and have a forced air vent. The vent should have a fan attached to keep the air moving, and have a vent tube running outside. This will pull air, fumes, and over spray out of the room. The fan should be powerful enough to get rid of the fumes but not be so powerful that it would suck your work or fine parts out! The vent tube can be attached anywhere though I recommend the center rear top. For a light source you can use anything but protect the bulbs or tubes so that they will not get covered with paint. Hope that helps, Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: KoopmaFS@utrc.utc.com Subject: Re: Bismark turret colors Hi Just to throw in my two cents worth. On top of what everyone else has said, here are another two things that lead me to believe that the turrets were gray at the time of sinking. First, looking at Ballards photos, I've noticed that most of the ship still has vestiges of the original color. There's (amazingly) relatively little corrosion, and what's not corroded still retains a blue-gray tint. Areas where a different color such as the swastika markings on deck, or the bottom paint, are clearly visible, and colored, and only maybe slightly blue-shifted. The point is this, The secondary turrets are colored no different than any other part of the hull, as she rests today. Close inspection of the photos, do not reveal any evidence that there were canvas covers at the time of sinking (fasteners and such). If these turrets were painted yellow, we would most likely see some vestige of it. If it was blue-shifted, as are most of the other colors, we would still see the difference as it would take on a green hue. The reason I'm discussing the secondaries, is because the actual 15" turrets themselves are upside-down in the sand with only the electrical platforms visible. To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) German air recognition colors were painted on both the primary and secondary armaments. If the secodaries are gray, more than likely, so were the primaries. The second reason I believe that the turrets were still gray is the simple fact that at the time of her sinking, she had been limping badly for several days. She knew that the RN was on her heels. Not exactly the kind of condition in which you want to be found, by the RN, OR the LW. Hence trying to add the second stack. Lets face it, if the captain had the slightest shred of smarts, he knew that yellow is not exactly stealthy. Yellow sticks out like a sore thumb on the Atlantic. If this were not the case, we would not be building life rafts and life jackets in that color. Not to mention that being down in the bows with a flimsy cofferdam keeping the water out, the crew has far better and more important things to worry about than getting out their brushes and making like Tom Sawyer. Sorry, but after seeing so many replies, I felt obligated to submit my own long winded thoughts! :-) Fritz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: tomkremer Subject: Photographic reproduction of colors It has been very interesting reading the recent comments regarding ships colors and historical color photographs. I would like to add to this discussion by mentioning that the film chemistry for common color films (for example Kodachrome, introduced in 1935) is is well known for doing an indifferent job of reproducing some colors, especially in the range of yellow-chartreuse-green. Also anyone who has spent time on the water knows how quickly the color and quality of the light (and thus of all objects illuminated by and reflecting that light) changes as the day progresses and cloud cover, haze and wind conditions change. That is one thing that makes maritime painting such a rewarding challenge. Anyhow I think that color photographs of ships at sea are of dubious value when trying to make out exact colors. Best regards, Tom Kremer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Tim Perry Subject: FLOWERS FOREVER again I will be going to the IPMS show, so will certainly pass on requests for the Flower sets to be released by Flightpath, but apparently they also have masters ready for several other vessels in 1:72, including a Grey Goose Steam Gunboat. Nice! I too would like a copy of Corvette K225 on Video! I've never seen it either. How about a 'Useful Films' and Inspirational Books' thread. 'The Cruel Sea' comes top of my list in both catagories, and the film 'Bridges at Toko Ri' has some excellent footage in it, as well as being 'believable' story. Tomorrow I am hoping to see the new Tom Hanks film 'Saving Private Ryan', but any more recommendations? Tim Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Rusty Ships Ben wrote of HMCS Haida: >> ... the situation below the waterline is far more serious. Recent surveys indicate that the anti-fouling is completely gone, heavy surface rust is prevalent and algae growth is extensive. However, ... ultrasound mappings taken below said waterline revealed that in some spot hull plates are so rotted that the have fallen below _half_ their original thickness. The ship need drydock time to repalce said hull plates, scrape rust and algea and put on new anti-fouling. The situation may not be urgent yet, but requires attention. 5 million $ (Cdn, IIRC) are required for this and funds are slowly being raised << A problem for many if not most of the preserved warships today. I recall reading that USS Olympia is in sad shape, especially where it can't be seen, being over 100 years old. We can expect the many WW2-era ships to rot away unless some action is taken. There has been an effort to get USS Massachusetts into drydock for a number of years but it always comes back to "So who's going to pay for it?" Governments are generally loathe to find funding to rehabilitate a museum ship, as they risk offending a few taxpayers. Ironic, to, may be the fact that thousands of people are walking through and touching the old ships every year, contributing to the problem. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: USS Iowa I am converting the Tamiya Missouri to Iowa with a Classic Warships conversion set (and so on). Using this, I am heading for late 1944. By that time the unusual feathered-edge camo had had its edges straightened. Using two references (The Warships data on Iowa, and the Squadron Signal US Battleships part 2) I have run up against a bit of a problem. Firstly, The dark colour is described both as "Bull Black" (Squadron) and as dark blue (Warships Data, and the conversion set). The only colour picture I have seen shows this colour (on the side of 'C' turret) as blue - but then the photo is very colour 'unbalanced' - any ideas?. Worse still, on the side of the hull, it is clearly a 2-colour scheme, with the contrasting colour being a light grey. But in some B&W pictures of the superstructure and 'B' turret there seems to be a 3rd colour (NOT the Deck Blue on the horizontal surfaces, but what looks like a darker grey - perhaps Ocean or Haze). Does anyone know whether this is real, or just a trick of the light (shadow?). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Hull Colours Found another picture, Same ship, USS America, this time anchored some where Stateside. It's fairly late as she has her phalanx weapon system and A7's, prowlers and vikings on deck. She's riding quite light as you can plainly see the boot topping has all but worn away. The colour below it is uniform grass green from bow to stern. The book is Super Carriers by Osprey publications . Interesting ! Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Re: Hull Colours & Arizona? Hi, 2 things, Hull Colours, I understand USS Carl Vinson was/may still be Green Below, when I was at PSNS in Jan, CVN70 was there (not in drydock, Kitty Hawk had that spot) and one of the guys who was showing me about got talking about how this mysterious Green Oxide is more effective than the Red Oxide? I don't know who he was or his position there, but he seemed "In The Know". As far as Yamato and that site with the words on the 1/10 Yamato, I think if Big Y was Green below we would have all known about it, it would have been reasonably well documented I guess. Arizona, I havent heard of a 1/720 Revell Arizona, can anyone confirm this? I can't help but think of the classic 1/426, but theres a lot of stuff molded on to the decks of that one? Greg (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Carrier Hull Bob Mitchell wrote: >> USS America off Naples ... below the boot topping is almost grass green instead of the more usual red. Is this is colour common or is the America an isolated case. << Hmmm. Must be the effect of light, weathering, algae or some combination of those. The hull under the boot topping would have been red when freshly painted. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Steve Sobieralski" Subject: Re: USS Forrestal/anti-fouling paint There appears to be a very credible effort in Tampa, Florida (my home) to acquire the Forrestal. The group behind the effort, which includes members with past involvement with both the Yorktown and Intrepid, has the support of local government and is optimistic about obtaining the necessary funding. We'll see. Regarding green colored anti-fouling paint - I remember reading somewhere that the red paint applied below the waterline to nuclear submarines turns green after prolonged exposure to seawater. If this is true, perhaps the same thing happens to surface ships. I beleive most anti-fouling paints contain large amounts of copper, which could account for the green color. Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: hanger deck colours Kelly, Can't vouch for the Essex, but in Supercarrier by osprey publications, there is a two page spread of the inside of saratoga's Hanger. Floor is dark grey or nonskid material same as flight deck. walls are grey up to waist height then everythings else is white apart from junction boxes and electrical conduits which seel to be colour coded Big red qarning triangles on upper walls. frames for droptanks etc. hanging from ceiling are also white. I dont think painting practices of such areas would vary too much. May be someone else can confirm. Hope this is useful Regards Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Bismark on Film Shane wrote: >> It's a pity there isn't a new blockbuster movie about the Bismarck, then all sorts of info would suddenly appear. Maybe the list could petition James Cameron :-). << Great idea, but by the time his ex-wife and the lawyers are through with him, he'll have to shoot the film in a bathtub. Some documentary about the early development of television showed scenes from a live production of "Sink the Bismark" on American TV from the 1950s, featuring a young Charlton Heston. It being live TV back then, towards the end of the story the smoke got so out of control that the actors and entire set was obscured. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Fletcher Variations Doc Data wrote: >> SOME but not ALL of the Fletcher Class DD's had a ladder on the starboard side of >the mounts facing foward and the port side of those facing aft. Additionally, SOME but not ALL of mount 51's had a gun captain hood on top of the mount. Is there a rhyme or reason that not all had these? << Most likely the result of so many ships getting built and overhauled by many different shipyards: non-standardization. Happens to most every class of ship over time. I think some ships had the ladders on the back of the 5" mounts and none on the sides. >> I have read on the Tamiya Fletcher kit talk about needing an extra 'knuckle' on 2 of the mounts. What is being referred to by 'knuckle' and which mounts get it? << Hardly worth worrying about in, say, 1:700, or even 1:350 unless you're absolutely bent on complete accuracy. [Several detailed replies sent on mount 51 and 55 knuckles and gun captain hood.] Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Heller Paint Numbers Eric Birkler wrote: >> heller color numbers ... 11-12-27-33-34-63-64-73-130-and 102 << Are these the same as the Humbrol/Heller codes? If so, they would correspond to: 11 = ? 12 = ? 27 = Matt Sea Grey 33 = Matt Black 34 = Matt White 63 = Matt Sand 64 = Matt Light Grey 73 = Matt Wine Red 102 = Matt Army Green 130 = ? Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Yet More on the Flowers Being lazy here: most of my references are for Canadian and British Flower class. I believe there were some crewed by the Free French and Norwegians, but did the Free Polish forces operate any of these ships? If so, what references should I consult. Thanks. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: 5"/38 caliber open gun mounts Does anyone have any idea where I can find a couple of detailed photos or line drawings of the 5"/ 38 caliber open gun mount as carried on WW2 auxiliary ships of the U.S. Navy? Don't have to be super-detailed, as it's for a 1:400 model. Doug Bauer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Bismarck colours more yellow proof??? Hi all, I have been following the Bismarck turret colour mystery with great interest. So tonight out of idle curiosity I hauled out my copy of "The Encyclopedia of Ships", generally not much good for anything. BUT the Bismarck profile shows distinct yellow turret tops and a triangular smudge on the starboard side ahead of "A" turret. Now isn't that interesting, Dave Krakow. Most of the material in the book is of Italian origin and I really can't vouch for it. Interesting none the less don't you think? Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Matchbox kits - ATTN MR CHAMBERS A number of days ago I had inquired about where to find a number of 1/700 Matchbox kits. Mr. Chambers was kind enough to respond to me personally and offer some of his extra kits for sale, but I'm not sure if my respone to him was properly delivered (our mail system is in the middle of an upgrade and is not totally reliable at this point). Mr. Chambers- If you havn't received any of my email responses, could you please give me an alternate way of contacting you? Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins Subject: Attn: Aussies The Liners Hi Guys, I just noticed in my tv guide that the mini series The Liners is being repeated on the ABC at 1800 this Saturday. If you haven't yet seen it, I can recommend it. Some very nice shots of pre WW1 ships & in future episodes they deal with the Queen Elizabeth, France, Ile De France & others. It's also available on video as well. Now all we need is that UK series on Liners(advertised in Ships Monthy), DD vids & the Naval Video Time Capsule series to come out on tv here & I'll be content(sorry Caroline can't afford them because of the anemic aussie dollar). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume