Subject: SMML25/09/98VOL313 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:47:47 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: ARK ROYAL Triple A (again) 2: Floquil Paints 3: PE rail frustration 4: CVL Monterey as training carrier 5: Flat bottom Boats 6: 1/350 WWII stars & bars decals 7: Colors for obscure items 8: AA positions on the Ark Royal 9: Re: Misc. answers for several postings 10: USS Long Island 11: Re: heller colors: thanks to mike 12: Heller Paint numbers 13: Glueing of photoetch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 5"/38 open mount.... 2: Re: Book wanted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: ARK ROYAL Triple A (again) Its always a bad idea to trust your memory especially if you want people to think you are clever. My post yesterday should have said that the ARK carried 8 4 barrelled 0.5 inch m.g.s. They were positioned at the the bow and stern end of the flight deck but 2 either side not 1. As launched she carried 4 8 barrelled pom-poms but 2 more were added, midships/portside, some time before the 24th Sept 41 when she sailed on Operation HALBEARD, she had just 51 days to live. the 2 extra pom-poms were not connected to the AA directors but still managed to down at least 2 Italian torpedo aircraft on the run to Malta. Despite reading the references I can find no indication she was ever fitted with Oerlikons. Sorry for the confusion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Floquil Paints Testors has bought out Floquil and they have said that the Floquil Marine paints are now discontinued and that Testors will not be coming out with a line. There was not enough sales to continue. Marc Mosko, owner of Model Expo has met with the Testors/Floquil people and asked about licensing, etc. - short answer is that they are not interested in quantities that are realistic and profitable to either Model expo or Testors. Model Expo has indicated they will develop a replacement paint series for marine colors BUT they will be acrylics due to EPA concerns. This information was discussed on the Seaway's list 2 weeks ago by Mr. Mosko. Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Foeth" Subject: PE rail frustration What I usually do to bend a nasty piece of railing, is rolling a cilinder on the railing, with the railing laid down on a glas plate, or something a little softer. If you gently press the cilinder (I use punches from the punch-and-die set, which are from milled steel) and roll it, the railing will bend towards you. I continuously check the railing with the model. Do not press too hard, or you might 'flatten' the PE part even more, in this case, it will curl up or downwards, and not towards you (the upper part is more stretched that the lower part of the railing). If I experience this, I remove the deformed part. It is a bad idea to shape your part by gluing it into shape on your model. You only force the bottom of the railing into shape, not the top, which will have a tendency to bend back into it's original shape. That's caused by the material elasticity. It will always bend back a little. If you shape it seperately, you wont have that elastic deformation, and the part will stay in shape, as you wanted it. There is a lot of room for error here. Be carefull to roll the cilinder orthogonaly to the railing, or it will bend slightly along it's other axis too. I just did that awfull Fletcher bridge part from GMM this way, and it works really well. BTW I am aware of the photograph,but it does not support Bismarcks yellow turrets in any way. It does look a little too heavy for a destroyer, more something like a Hipper-class cruiser. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: CVL Monterey as training carrier Anyone know of photos or info on the USS Monetery when it was a training carrier in the early 50s? I have one ohoto that shows Avengers on board. Anyone know if Monterey operated any other a/c at Pensacola? Any gen'l info on the ship's configuration at the time? Les -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Flat bottom Boats Hello Mike >> I wish somebody could explain why nearly all those ship models from the 50s and 60s had such flat bottoms! << In the early days of plastic modelling, the kits were seen more as children's toys rather than serious representations of the subject. The boats (ships) all had flat bottoms so that they would sit upright on the floor when played with. Round bottom ships fall over. I just received a Russian model in 1/400 of the Arktika which unfortuately harkens back to these early days. It's the first icebreaker I've seen with a flat bottom! Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: KelDQ@aol.com Subject: 1/350 WWII stars & bars decals I'm looking for a source for markings for my airwing on my 1/350 Essex. Several people have suggested GMM, but their catalog only lists marking in 1/700 and 1/720 scales. I know BWN sells a set for 1/350, but at $7.00 a sheet that only covers 4 aircraft, I'm looking for a cheaper route. I need enough markings to cover 30 aircraft. Anybody have any ideas? Thanks! Kelly Quirk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Rob & Heather Weilacher Subject: Colors for obscure items Friends, Two questions: 1. I have the LSM/LCI/LCT kit from Skywave (#8). What color scheme is used for these vessels circa 1944? Is it the Floquil "Deck Green" for horizontal surfaces and the Ocean/Haze/Navy Greens for vertical surfaces? 2. Dockside buildings/factories/hangars: were these painted camoflage? I've seen some old dockside buildings in Baltimore's harbor painted camoflage (years ago). Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject: AA positions on the Ark Royal Hi All, For those of you who have Norman Friedmans "British Carrier Aviation", go to page 124, this plan (Drawn by Alan Raven) was made using official "as fitted" plans, and show her as she appeared in 1941. HTH Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Misc. answers for several postings BISMARCK >> If )if) yellow was applied, it would have been applied to both the primary and secondary turrettops. The statement by the survivors says that the yellow was washed of in the heavy seas. << My understanding is that both main and secondary turrets were ordered painted yellow but the paint washed off the secondary turrets. The mains were still yellow at the time of her sinking. (According to survivor recollections). RENWALL KITS >> Interestingly, at a flea market for plastic modelers not long ago there was a partial, bagged Renwal kit for sale and I was curious enough to get it. It was called "Combat Fleet" and is some odd little scale (1:1000 or maybe 1:1500). The Fletcher class destroyer is only a couple of inches long and consists of about 10 parts. The instructions that showed about 18 ships in all. A real variety, from a carrier to an SSBN and even a cargo transport. Very representative of the USN in the early 60s. Most of the ships are missing and what is left is an angled deck Essex class CV or CVS, the Fletcher DD >in WW2 layout, and a Lafayette class Polaris sub. The original set had a huge base into which all these ships could be set to be show steaming in a huge formation. A fascinating set if one could find it in complete condition. << These kits were also sold in two boxes labeled "Task Force A" and "Task Force B" The scale was 1/1200, or so they said. I had both of these sets at one time and the scale worked out very close to 1/1200. I do not remember 18 models, more like 12 - I think there were 6 ships in each box - but it has been MANY years ago. Needless to say, I no longer have either kit. REVELL 1/720 ARIZONA >> BTW Greg, there IS a Revell 1/720 Arizona - I just bought it at a regular >Hobby Shop, not at a swap meet or anything. I don't know whether it is new or a reissue of an oldie but it's out there. << It is an old (VERY old kit (at least 30 years) and not very good. It is not a reduction of their large ARIZONA, it would have been a better model if is was. USN AUXILLARIES BOOK >> (I >know of NO books dealing with WWII USN Auxillaries), << Only one that I know of - by Stefan Terzibaschitsch, called 70 Yahre Flottenhilfsschiffe der U.S. Navy. (180 DM from Christian Schmidt in Munich - if it is still in print). This is a softcover - oversize volumn with hundreds of well printed photos, specifications, German text. Mr T. was not able to find a publisher so he published the book himself, which is why it is so expensive. TANKER KITS >> Also, has anyone built an oiler, destroyer tender, or seaplane tender << Tenders were offered in 1/700 (resin) by Doc-Modell in Germany, now re-issued under the WSW label - you can get them from Pacific Front Hobbies. Also, there are no less than four new tankers coming out right now in 1/700, and two that were already marketed. New -T-2 U. S. Navy oiler, & T-2 Civilian tanker - from Loose Cannon Productions (Available from Pacific Front. New -T-2 & CIMARRON (WW II) from Bureau of Small Warships. Available direct from BSW, P.O. Box 28571, San Diego, CA 92198-0571 CIMARRON (WW II) and CIMARRON (modern) from Jim Shirley models (Listed but not sure if these kits are actually available at this time. Pacific Front may still have some in stock.). A coastal tanker (old Frog kit) called the SHELL WELDER (1/200 scale) is currentely available again - Pacific Front has them, also White Ensign Models. Revell's 1/400 MISSION CAPISTRANO is also currently availalbe, from the above sources or in most hobby shops in the USA. >> I've been intersted in building one of the above in the near future, and >would like a recommendation (also any leads on reference material). << Not much in print right now, but there are many out of print books that are useful. I listed most of the good ones in my bibliography for the two part article I wrote last year for Ships in Scale on building the 1/400 Revell MISSION CAPISTRANO T-2. The only good books on tankers that are currently available: Gray Steel and Black Oil by Thomas Wildenberg (USNIP) US Navy fleet oilers. Sailing Ship to Supertanker by Sawyer & Mitchell (1987) Esso ships - may be out of print. APPLYING RAILS >> OK I give up. How do you get the rail around the stern of a ship and make it look right? It seems I either get the right bend, but not the << For compound curves such as this, use shorter sections of rail and piece them together. That is the method I have found to be the easiest. It worked well on the 1/700 Hasegawa HIKAWA MARU. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject: USS Long Island Hi, Just relaying a short post from a non-modelling buddy of mine. Greg >> Is there a Model of the Long Island? My father was on that ship and it would be cool if we could build him up a model. << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Eric Birkler" Subject: Re: heller colors: thanks to mike I would just like to say thanks to mike who directed me in the right direction about heller colors for the prinz eugen model I recently purchased..I had been looking for a model of the prinz eugen ever since I left the marshall islands in 77, where I lived for ten years and where the prinz eugen now lies, with its stern out of the water. I was lucky enough to had the chance to see, touch and snorkel around a piece of history. Now at least I can start building the model, thanks again mike..... Eric -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Heller Paint numbers Heller is indeed using the same codes as Humbrol, and usually the Heller colors are identical to their Humbrol counterparts. But a few of them are only close matches. For example Heller 128 is much more blue tham that of Heller. Nevertheless, if you want to follow a painting instruction with Heller codes, you can take Humbrols as well. I don't think that the differences were really wanted by Heller. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Doc Data Subject: Glueing of photoetch I have been using CA to attach PE but have read, recently, that white glue can be used as well. Even when using a micro-needle to apply CA, I frequently get more than I wanted. Applying white glue with a pin or toothpick seems that it would provide better control. Obviously, there will be times where the near instant dry of CA (I use medium cure) will be preferred over the white glue. So, the question is... does anyone have any strong opinions either way? Doc Data -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: 5"/38 open mount.... Doug... I'm sending you a JPEG line drawing of the 5"/38 open mount under seperate cover...let me know if you receive it..... Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Book wanted I have discovered that I waited too long and this one has gone out of print. Does anyone have - or have access to - a copy for sale of: "German Coastal Forces of World War II" by M. J. Whitley. (Arms & Armor Press - 1995). Maybe your local book or hobby shop still has a copy on their shelves? I would be happy to purchase - or - I have a trade list. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume