Subject SMML27/09/98VOL315 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:28:08 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Missouri waterline 2: Re: Why WWII? 3: Re: A Dumb Question 4: Re: A Dumb Question 5: Re ; A.A Arnament HMS ARK ROYAL 6: Re: LINDBERG minesweeper 7: Re ARK ROYAL 8: Re: CA Application Tool 9: Re: Revell 1/720 ARIZONA 10: Re: decals 11: Re: Why WW II all the time? 12: Re: Glueing of photoetch 13: Re: Why WW2 all the time? 14: Re: Why WW2? 15: Re: Why WWll all the time?+ resin Q. 16: Interest in Modern Warships 17: Re: Application tools 18: CA applicator 19: Re: Landing Craft Colors 20: Re: Minesweeper 21: A Budding Yamatoholic??? 22: More on Flower Class Corvettes 23: Re: Why WW2 All of the Time? 24: Lindberg's Landing Ship Dock Kit # 766 25: HELP! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML Holdover -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: USS Missouri waterline Hi fellow SMMLers, I'd like to repeat my question of where the waterline of the Missouri was at loaded weight. OK, it may look llike a naive question, and most likely it was somewhere on the black line, but that is 5.5 mms wide, and if I cut the hull too far up or too far down it won't look right. I may settle for the ship as it was at the surrender ceremonies as the colour scheme is simpler, but still providing contrast with the teak decks. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Re: Why WWII? >> Does anyone have an opinion as to why the modelling fraternity at large, including the ship modelling fraternity, has such an intense focus on World War 2? << WWII was the last historical period when major naval battles took place. This is what makes it fascinating to me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Re: A Dumb Question Caroline Carter wrote: >> Hi Norman, Hmmmm... suggest the wonderful book by Loren Perry "Photoetching for the Ship Modeler", a snip at 7.95!! However, imagine carefully snipping that tiny round base out from it's sprue, then snipping out the quadropod parts, bending folding the gun barrels/sights in to place and then glueing it all together with a micro-dot of superglue... that's about all there is to it... However, use of an illuminated magnifier, long forceps, and a steady hand are recommended.. if I can do it, anyone can!! Many Kind Regards, and feel free to ask more if you are unclear... I promise I'll take you seriously! << Hi Ms. Carter, I'm a new reader of SMML and pretty ignorant. E.g. awhile back I asked the SMML listmaster what "WEM" stood for. Poor Greg almost had convulsions! However, I've figured out on my own what "PE" stands for! I'm afraid to ask Greg any more questions or I might push him over the brink. But I have another dumb question and you sound friendly so I'll ask you. I've looked at the PE sheets that you are advertising and they look very intricate and spidery. My question is how does the modeler translate these PE images into 3-D models? Is he supposed to carve these things out of the brass sheets then glue them together? As usual I'm mystified. Thanks, Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject: Re A Dumb Question Hi Norm, Well, first of all, there really are no such thing as dumb questions. I prefer to call it Learning. And we are ALL still learning! So don't ever be afraid to ask anything - As far as Making sense of those P/E sheets, I would strongly second Caroline's suggestion of Loren Perry's Book. It has ALL the answers to just about every question you will ever be faced with when adding P/E to your models. I ordered the book from GMM along with my first ever P/E sheet, and I must say that it was well worth the $$. Even now I still call on it from time to time. In a Nutshell, My own personnal advice is to get yourself a magnifying sheet, and a good set of reversed tweezers - and some Zap Accelorator. Cut the pieces out ONLY when you need them. Loren told me once to approach P/E like a chess game, always plan your moves 3 moves ahead. After you cut them out, you fold/bend them as/if required, or like normal model parts, ie: In the case of Radars or Cranes/Catapults etc.. you may need to glue pieces together. Sometimes you may need to modify a kits origional plastic parts, Bridges and hulls especially, whereby you cut away some of the part, and replace it with the more detailed brass piece. But in most cases, you will just be adding a piece where there isnt any, ie: Railings It is definately something which will take a lot of thinking, time, and practice to learn, so perhaps try a cheaper, less intricate kit to start with, and move up to bigger things as your skills progress, and most of all, don't expect yourself to get it right all of the time, I am sure most of us are still botching our way along, I remember someone telling me, a good modeller isnt gauged by the number of mistakes he makes, but how well he recovers from them. My bottom line is, just enjoy yourself, don't be afraid to ask questions, and get a copy of Lorens book. Greg (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: A.A Arnament HMS ARK ROYAL Hi guys, Concerning the pom pom arnament of HMS ARK ROYAL. According to Ark Royal by Sir Herbert Rusell. K.B.E. and Ark Royal by Kenneth Poolman, when eventually fitted, all pom pom's aboard the Ark were wired not only to there respective Director, but to the Anti Aircraft arnament circuit in general so that should any director be knocked out by enemy action, any of the other could take it's place. This is also bourne out by numerous books I have in my collection which contain exerts from the Ark's career in WWII. The system was copied and improved in the later Illustrius Class. Regards Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: LINDBERG minesweeper >> Does anybody know what class of minesweeper the old 1/125 scale Lindberg kit represented? More specifcally, was it an Admirable Class vessel? << Yes, it is supposed to represent the standard 180' AM (ADMIRABLE class). I don't remember if it was also released as a PCE. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "graham walker" Subject: Re: ARK ROYAL Hi all, seems alot of post here lately about Ark 3, mainly the Revel one, Just to warn you the Revel kit is wrong big time, I have just finished the starboard side of the hull and after a Lot of work deem it ok, port holes in the wrong place ships side opening totaly wrong etc, lifts in the flight deck in the wrong places, but now I am stuck any body got a port side plan?? been working on this off and on for months now. Paint job I would suggest trying this Hull and superstructure 507C hull panel 507A, The spilnter pattern marking is where the 507C has worn away leaving the 507A from her time with the Home Fleet. graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: CA Application Tool I also use Rusty's "nubs" - don't remember where I picked up that term a few years ago. And by the way, any excess CA that flows on can be wicked off with a ragged edge of torn paper. Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Revell 1/720 ARIZONA That kit was also released by Matchbox, using the Revell molds. I just saw 2 at a local hobby shop for less than $10. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: decals >> I'm looking for a source for markings for my airwing on my 1/350 Essex. Several people have suggested GMM, but their catalog only lists marking in 1/700 and 1/720 scales. I know BWN sells a set for 1/350, but at $7.00 a sheet that only covers 4 aircraft, I'm looking for a cheaper route. I need enough markings to cover 30 aircraft. Anybody have any ideas? Thanks! << Make your own. I do it all the time on an ALPS MD-1000 printer. Just finished making a bunch for various 1/700 aircraft. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Why WW II all the time? I suppose that there are as many answers to Mike Kear's question as there are collector's. But here's my thoughts on the subject. WW II provides more than ships. It provides battles. Ships and men tested. Ships versus planes. All sorts of variations. A lot happening. It was the biggest sea war in history. Why are folks so interested in the TITANIC as opposed to her sister the OLYMPIC, which had a 20+ year career? Because folks are interested in the human elements and what ships did. And the fleets were large and varried. Large numbers of battleships, aircraft carriers, cruisers etc. So the variety in different ships was greater than ever before, or since. Some ships reached the epitome of development, such as the battleship. After the war, the navies either disappeared (like the German and Japanese) or shrank with the exception of the U.S. and the USSR. Ships like the BB and CA nearly disappeared as well, and the types of different ships became fewer in number. When collectors speak about ships that interest them, it's usually big gun ships. There's power and majesty. I'm interested in all warships of 19th and 20th centuries, but primarily steam or motive driven ships. WW I are very interesting to me, but I still find WW II the most interesting of all. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Sue & Ben Subject: Re: Glueing of photoetch Doc Data wrote: >> I have been using CA to attach PE but have read, recently, that white glue can be used as well. << White glue works just fine for some parts. I use it extensively for tank construction humbers, aircraft instrument bezels, ship doors and hatches, etc. In order words mostly for parts that are glued 'flush' with the surface. White glue even has more shear strenght, I believe, so I'll use it to reinforce glue joints on things like ship railings after having put them on with CA. >> Even when using a micro-needle to apply CA, I frequently get more than I wanted. << Especially for railings, I use the edge of an X-Acto #11 blade (not the point!). I put a small puddle of CA and run the entire edge through it. I then put the edge down at an oblique from the deck edge/railing bottom joint and very quickly darg it along the whole lenght. It works surprisingly well if you use a CA that has very low viscosity (ie, the thinner the better). >> So, the question is... does anyone have any strong opinions either way? << Obviously! As a final note soldering of some items is an option to CA use, for instance something like GMM KGV class plane cranes. A good five minute epoxy also has its uses at times. The moral of this is, use whatever works for you. HTH Ben Montreal, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Sue & Ben Subject: Re: Why WW2 all the time? Mike Kear wrote: >> Does anyone have an opinion as to why the modelling fraternity at large, including the ship modelling fraternity, has such an intense focus on World War 2? << That;s an interesting question Mike. Personally, since I have an interest in all military equipment of the twentieth century, I tend to agree with you that there may be an over emphasis on WW2 (even if I don't really mind). >> I seem quite alone sometimes in being really only interested in currently serving warships. << Well, this is obviously an opinion call, so here goes. Modern warships have some appeal, but let's face it, they lack a certain something especially so since the introduction of VLS. So-called 'staright-stick' warships have far more caracter, literally bristling with weaponry. Also WW2 ships have far more media exposure. It's far more likely that a WW2 ship will be recognized or that a model of such will draw interest. But the greater reason is that WW2 was the last 'good war'. It was the good guys against the bad guys (no offense meant to aynone here), the fight of good against evil, right versus wrong, etc. There were few moral ambiguities, the cause was just. So absolutely no one (well on one side at least) has to feel guilty for liking WW2. Since then things have become somewhat muddled. At least, I think that's the general perception. And the primary reason. Cheers Ben Montreal, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Why WW2? Mike asked - >> Does anyone have an opinion as to why the modelling fraternity at large, including the ship modelling fraternity, has such an intense focus on World War 2? << No, but I'm sure we all have opinions. The large body of books, documentary videos, movies, etc. about WW2 must have an influence. Also - manufacturers are a conservative lot in that they prefer "safe" subjects that have sold well enough in the past, for example, an ME109 or a Spitfire (talking planes) or an Enterprise or a Bismark (talking ships). Not long ago I'd complained to a major manufacturer that 90% of their new releases seemed to be of Third Reich armor and figures; Allied and even other Axis (Italy & Japan) representation was almost nonexistent by comparison. My e-mail was entitled "No More Nazis Please!" They responded that they were simply catering to what the marketplace wanted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SlimGrape@aol.com Subject: Re: Why WWll all the time?+ resin Q. I suppose it's because WWll saw the most wide spread naval activity in history... I'm with you though, WWll ships don't interest me as much as the pre-dreadnought to WWl (including Hood) stuff, and it was only recently that I found that if I was willing to tackle resin and spend oddles of money, I could be building the likes of the Goeben, Dreadnought, Viribus Unitis, Chester, Mikasa, etc. The HiMold Mikasa, by the way, sits un-built on a shelf untill I build and successfully airbrush the less expensive Airfix Iron duke and Tamiya Hood (with WE's PE), in that order. What's the scoop on the hazards of resin dust? Is the danger a physical one, like asbestos and fiberglass? Or is it chemically hazardous? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Interest in Modern Warships >> I seem quite alone sometimes in being really only interested in currently serving warships. This is not meant to be a judgment of any kind - we ought only to model subjects that interest us - but a genuine effort to understand this phenomenon. << I don't know about that - my customers buy a lot of DDG-51 class photos, among others. I was talking to a friend who builds fiberglass hulls who told me that modern DD's, FFG, and CG's are popular too. Even the plastic model companies, who really look for big numbers before tooling a mold, produce modern warships. So, there is a market out there - you are not alone To the extent that World War II subjects are more popular, it may be because they seem more interesting - all those guns, camouflage painting, colorful history. It is in many ways easier to get information on a World War II era ship, as there is a lot of stuff available in print on the subject. Current warships, due to security requirements, are much harder to find plans for, and there are few books that cover the subject. Consider, that nobody has down a Squadron type monograph on any of the modern US surface combatants. What sources there are tend to be either very technical, i.e. Norman Friedman's work, or very superficial. Modern ships, until pretty recently, are more of an acquired taste. As much as I enjoy touring an Aegis cruiser, they don't have near the grace of an Atlanta. The requirements of modern Electronics and ABC warfare have imposed design constraints that have not done a lot for atheistic of warships. Many have relatively uneventful lives, fortunately for their crews! That said, some of the latest designs, those driven by stealth characteristics, are a considerable improvement from the viewpoint of appearance. The US Burke class, the French Lafayette and others have a more raked and streamlined appearance, which I find much more pleasing. But speaking as someone who is building a 1/8" scale Burke, scratchbuilding all those angles is a bear! So, while you will not find a lot of modern warship modelers out there, they exist. And look at it this way - if you want to join a lot of folks doing the same subject, you could be building models of a P-51! Kurt SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Application tools Once you've used your tool of choice to apply that micro-drop of CA to affix that PE railing, you still have to keep the railing in place until the CA sets up. To speed that process, take an ordinary Q-tip and saturate one end with a CA accelerator--Zip Kicker or the like--and simply pass it close to the drop of CA. The fumes from the accelerator will set up the CA instantly, allowing you to move on to affix the next section of railing (or other small part). Of course, the caveat is don't actually touch the Q-tip to the CA, or you'll be dealing with trying to remove cotton fibers from your model. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: CA applicator Or you can stick a sewing needle into a pencil erasor, then clip off the top of the needle's eye. This makes a fine U-shaped applicator. The smaller the needle, the finer the applicator. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Landing Craft Colors Rob wrote - >> I have the LSM/LCI/LCT kit from Skywave (#8). What color scheme is used for these vessels circa 1944? Is it the Floquil "Deck Green" for horizontal surfaces and the Ocean/Haze/Navy Greens for vertical surfaces? << Naturally there are very few color photos from WW2 of landing craft in operation. "GI Victory: The US Army in World War II Color" has several pictures of LCVPs, LCIs, etc. from Operation Overlord. Most are in overall Navy Blue. Also a couple of LSTs in Measure 22 (Haze Gray over Navy Blue). As for the Pacific, the Floating Drydock's "US Navy Camouflage of the WW2 Era" (page 36) has a camo pattern for an LCI(L) in black, brown, and shades of green. These colors were applied to the deck as well as the hull. I'm sure there were many variations and a solid Deck Green would be acceptable, too. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Minesweeper Steve wrote: >> Does anybody know what class of minesweeper the old 1/125 scale Lindberg kit represented? More specifcally, was it an Admirable Class vessel? << Yes, it was. (A pretty hard kit to find these days. Be prepared to spend several hours scraping off the ugly "plating" that just about all Lindgerg ships had.) MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: A Budding Yamatoholic??? My son Erik, an avid 10 yr old modeler of ships and planes, went with me today to our Butch O'Hare IPMS model contest and swap meet. He asked that I introduce him to you all and, well here he is: paste: Hi, my name is Erik and I am 10 years old. I entered my F6F Hellcat in the contest for kids 10 and smaller and won a silver prize. This was my first try. In the swap meet I bought the Yamato kit made by Aurora in 1/600 scale for $1. My dad says some of you are nuts about this ship and might help me ddo a good job. Why do you like this ship so much? Why did it sink so easy? Is this a good kit? But I only paid $1. have any of you built this kit? We use only Tamiya paints. Mom says so. My dad now has a air brush kit and I will try it first on this ship. What tamiya color should I choose for the hull and top sides and turrets of the ship? Did it have special paint job to hide it from airplanes or ships? are the guns the same color as the turrrets. What color should I paint the deck? What color should I paint the bottom? Next year I aam against the older kids and I want to do a good job. Thank you Erik Clemens end of paste Erik likes ships because his dad does but he also likes to put together an airplane in a few days instead of building a ship in several weeks. But you should have seen his eyes pop when he saw the Yamato and a couple others (?Mushashi and Shinano?) in 1/250 (still in the boxes, for sale as a set for $750. That's a lot of lawn mowing!). I'll admit mine did too and more than one adult there was happy that the seller did not take checks or charge cards. Thanks a bunch, Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "lamkeel@email.msn.com" Subject: More on Flower Class Corvettes Hello Gents and Caroline C. I'm still converting from superheated steam to this mode of communication, but I have been reading about yellow turret tops for the last month since we became live. The reoccurring mention of Flower Class Corvettes caught my eye, and since I am working on that very subject for WR and his "Warship Perspectives"......... (My deadline was the end of July - Oh for more hours in the day). For those of you that do not know of me. I draw R.N. Warships and Warship Weapons of DD size and below, a hobby that I have enjoyed for almost 30 years. Each subject is redrawn from original material. Many subjects are multi-sheet. I have Alan Raven to thank for this long term 'hobby'. My aim is to provide detailed drawings for the model maker, scratch builder and naval Buff. I have a contact who has access to Flower Class builders drawings. He sent me a list of 350 items and I chose a selection of G/A's to redraw. Many are completed , drawn at 1/8" = 1Ft , and are fully detailed. I have also viewed the "Ships Covers". All the weapon systems apart from the 6 Pdr Hotchkiss gun (which I start work on today) are available. From my research it would seem that no two units were the same and working from the "As Fitted" originals some have this and some that, a continuous development. Ten were loaned to the U.S. with their crews to help out in early 1941. My plans are available in two catalogues, and include, short and long fox'l units, modified Flowers, ships boats, hull plating, construction, machinery, mast construction, bridge variations, and all the weapons. Yours "aye". John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Why WW2 All of the Time? Mike Kear deplored that so much of the energy of this list was focused on kits depicting ships from World War 2. He appreciates, for technology reasons, ships that are post WW2. For my special interest, naval ships from 1880 to 1910, I see from my point of view a double problem. Not only are there not a lot of fellow modelers interested in this era, and therefore not a lot of postings, there are not a lot of kits to choose from. Also, the quality of some of these kits is questionable. However, I seem to sense that more of you are starting to appreciate this era. I enjoy these models because they are usually in a larger scale. Nice for my fat fingers. Also, the decks and profiles are not "cluttered" with radar, radio masts, anti-aircraft guns and aircraft catapults. However, it seems that the newest ships are now removing deck clutter for radar stealth reasons. This results, in my view, in a very sleek, but almost antiseptic profile and plan. This goes to show that everyone has his or her own tastes, and our proper attitude should be to support and sustain each other for the good of us all. SMML is as good as it gets in this regard. (I'll admit that I've built a few sailing ships and a few WW2 ships, with an LSD soon to be 'on the ways'. But I bet we have all stretched like this. ) Have fun and enjoy whatever you have chosen to do. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Lindberg's Landing Ship Dock Kit # 766 I was at my IPMS / Butch O'Hare Chapter Model Contest / Swap Meet today in the Chicago suburbs and struck gold in a way. I found the Revell USS Olympia #H-367:198 @ approx 1/240 in the original 1959 box! It is the version that was molded in tan, white and red and that I built as a 14 year old (app 1965). The version that was re-released in the 1980's, Revell's #H-443, was molded in only one color (white). The seller knew what he had, so don't ask what I paid for it. I may buy the GMM PE kit for it just to have it. But I may never build it. Its very nice just to have it in the box. I also bought for $10 a kit that I never knew was built. Its the Lindberg kit for a Landing Ship Dock (LSD) Kit # 766. The box says copyright 1976. The scale on the box is stated as 1" = 10 ft, 6 inches, or 1/126. An odd scale, except for that large Fletcher DD? Very nice, except that its wrong. The ships were 458 ft long with a 72 ft beam and displaced 4500 tons. At 18.9" long, this converts to: 458x12/18.9 = 1/290.8 scale or 1" = 24 ft-3". At 3.1" wide, it scales to 1/279 or 1" = 23ft-3". So it seems the correct scale is about 1"=24ft or 1/288. This is also a strange scale. Anyway, I bought it because my dad drove landing craft in the Pacific during WWII and between landings and invasions, his company of boats was ferried from island to island in one of these. Mostly it was in the USS Carter Hall, LSD 3. I've built models for him of the two types of landing craft (LCM and LCVP) he drove, but I never thought I'd find an LSD. This LSD will go to the head of the line of unbuilt models in my closet so that it gets built while he's still able to enjoy it. And its motorized like a lot of the Lindberg kits of that time (for kids to play with). One motor and two shafts! Funny, but I can't picture him in the tub watching it run back and forth. Besides, its too big to turn around in the tub! And it comes with 15 LCVPs. It could hold 27. The box art shows LSD 26, USS Tortuga, off-loading a company of LCVPs, loaded with troops. Please note that this LSD was completed late in WWII and did not participate in any WWII combat. But it did serve in Korea and Viet Nam. Question for the SMML Listees: Do you think that there are any PE kits in this scale (1/288) so that I can do it justice? These Lindberg kits were not known for their attention to fine detail. Next, I won in the raffle the Revell Hospital Ship Haven #H-320:169. The scale is not stated but the length and beam (13" and 1.8") scale to 1/480 or 1" = 40 ft. This kit, which is a 1995 re-release of the original 1955 box art, may wait a while. The contest and swap meet was an excellent way to spend an afternoon with my 10 year old son. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Michael Connelley Subject: HELP! Hello All: This question is regarding the classic Revell Arizona but holds for any ship kit in general. I noticed a few mold errors and sinkholes in the wood part of the deck. What is the best way to correct these without effecting the look of the deck? I was thinking of just filling and sanding as usual then scribe in lines that match the raised lines on the deck. Is this a good idea? Anyone have a special way of dealing with this problem? Thanks in advance. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : SMML Holdover Hi All, Well, One of My "Warships" buddies suggested I take a weekend off, I have been a busy boy lately, so I have decided to take that advice, and I am headed North for the weekend. (I am staying at Shane Jenkins House - he just doesn't know it yet:-)))) So, (And this is probably gonna cause a riot) Friday's SMML will be published a little early, as I leave Friday afternoon, and I will return on Monday, so you will be SMML-Less for Saturday and Sunday:-( Sorry Guys! However, when I get back, I will just publish the issues as normal, in date and Volume order. Once again: Friday Oct 2 - SMML will be Early Saturday Oct 3 - NO SMML Sunday Oct 4 - NO SMML Monday Oct 5 - SMML will return to Normal - and I will post out Saturdays and Sundays issues as well so their are no holes in the archive. Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume