Subject: SMML07/10/98VOL325 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:06:13 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/96 scale Bisrmarck 2: Re: ARK ROYAL 3: Re: weathering the kgv 4: Bismarck Turret Controversy Revisited 5: Re: FLETCHER rigging 6: How are resin masters made? 7: Re: rigging for WW II ships 8: Re: Fast Battleships 9: Re: Airfix 1/600 Hood 10: Re: Viking Sea Wolf / Resin questions 11: KG 5 Weathering & Illustrious 12: South Dakota Class 13: Re: Making resin masters 14: Re: Marat sinking 15: Re: Rudel vs. the Marat 16: 1:350 Tamiya Enterprise 17: Purpose of blast bags? 18: Fletcher class Rigging 19: PE PARTS SPHERICAL RADAR SCREEN SHAPE 20: Mounting of in progress models 21: Marat and Illustrious 22: Olympia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: Re: 1/96 scale Bisrmarck >> Perhaps the other readers of the list can let us know if this is a subject they would like to see discussed, or if we should handle it through email. << I'd like to see it discussed, but if the majority don't, I'd appreciate it if I get included in any e-mails. I have some experience with 1/96 R/C destroyers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: ARK ROYAL The plans I have are a half size copy of the original AS FITTED Admiralty Draft which I obtained from the National maritime museum back in 1986. It's just that ten directors make it's sound like the original Audacious Design. Unfortunately I don't have British carrier Aviation, but I do, amongst others have Aircraft Carriers of the world by Roger Chesenau. I you look on the port side of the ship, aft of number 2 gun and just by the WT Mast. That's a Director. If you keep going aft just abft the crane boom that's another one. If you look on the starboard side in the same place that's number three and if you look on the side of the island, level with the flight deck, that's number four. the way I understnd it, they are not really a HACSas say the KGV's had. It the sort of the prototype system. I believe it was actually designed based on experience with Nelson and Rodney. I always find it best not to rely on anyone book. I have a library bigger than some museums, and every relevant book I have, plus a reprint of her original commissioning book is telling me the same thing. Best regards BOb Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: weathering the kgv I usually use some weathering tricks from my military modeling. I paint the superstructure first (Basic color). I then completely brush it with pure terpentine. Then I add thinned black oil paint. If I do not first "immerse" piece in terpentine, sometimes the first drop of black is absorbed, and cannot be removed without repainting. This depends on the type of paint you use. With a small brush, I outline various kinds of detail with less diluted black oils. If the air-brushed color is not a grey, I sometimes use other colors, but black usually suffices. On white or yellows, it is important that the area is fully wetted with terpentine, as black spots can be seen much better on a light surface. After this "wash", I drybrush the model, in the same color as the original paintlayer, gradually adding more white, or an othe lighter color, until the black wash is mostly dry-brushed away. I even drybrush very small PE parts, as the radars, but off course, very gently. The effect is unnoticable, until you put your model next to an unwashed/drybrushed model. Detail looks far more crisp. Even those GMM PE doors can be seen clearly. Recesses are now a lot darker. For real weathering I add a small drop of Burned Umber or Burned Sienna (or both) pure oilpaint. This *very* small drop of paint is brushed down (or a stroke from my finger), and will look very much like rust washed down the superstructure (More Sienna) or just dirt washed down by rain (More Umber). These colors can also be added slightly thinned down with terpentine for larger area's of rust and fouling. Oils mostly give very good results, together with the drybrushing. Evert-jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Foeth" Subject: Fw: Bismarck Turret Controversy Revisited This new information is, unfortunately, not exciting. Bismarcks turrets were allegedly painted yellow on the 26th of may 1941, and yellow tops while loading ammo is certainly an error. Same thing for the paintings they sometimes advertise in magazines such as 'Naval Proceedings'. Also, these paintings are not correct with colors. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: FLETCHER rigging I used 1kg fishing line to rig my FLETCHER and it looks pretty good the GMM P/E set has small rings on the the mast cross trees which makes the signal halyards easy. To help rig them I attached a short section of 1/700 scale ladder (cut up the middle) to the flag bins which provide a anchor point at the bottom of the halyard. Be careful when rigging mast stays as it is easy to pull the mast over to one side. The last word in FLETCHER references is the Floating Drydock's Fletcher plan book which is the definative work on the ship. This has complete rigging plans. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Michael Kear Subject: How are resin masters made? Rick ( viracohas@abac.com ) asked: >> 1. How are resin masters made? Are they scratchbuilt out of wood, plastic or machined out of aluminum? << In AFP Models, ours are mostly made from aluminium, brass or wood, depending on what is being modelled. Hull masters are made plank on frame or carved out of jelutong (a very even, fine grained rainforest timber that is easy to work) and coated with several layers of resin and/or glass fibre matting. For fittings like guns or bollards etc. the masters are made from machined brass, aluminium, or wood. Occasionally some plastic architectural shapes like evergreen or plastruct. Basically the material chosen depends on the shape we require, and what the forces will be on it during the moulding process. Sorry not to be more specific, but I guess the short answer is "it depends". Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Models http://www.afp.zip.com.au/models.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Doc Data Subject: Re: rigging for WW II ships The Floating Drydock's 'Fletcher Class DD Plan Book' is by far the best. Also, 'Warship Prespective: Fletcher Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers in WWII' is excellent as well. Doc Data, owner of the USS Putnam (DD-757) home page http://www.MustangONE.com/putnam -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: Fast Battleships >> Unlike many other US ships that wore several camouflage schemes during the course of the war, SOUTH DAKOTA wore only one: Measure 21--Navy Blue (5-N) on all vertical surfaces, with Deck Blue (20-B) on all horizontal surfaces. << Are you sure John ?!?!? I could have sworn that I have seen a photo of South Dakota in the South Pacific wearing MS12. (Walking off and mumbling about having to go digging through the reference photos again.............) John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Airfix 1/600 Hood Hi, Yesterday I saw an Airfix 1/600 Hood at Village Hobbies in Austin, Texas. You can send an email to the proprietor, George Lewis, at vhaustin@aol.com, call him at (512) 452-6401, or send him a fax at (512) 433-5302. I looked for but didn't see the 1/720 Hood from Italaeri. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Viking Sea Wolf / Resin questions I too have both the waterline and the full hull versions of the Viking Models Sea Wolf. The waterline version is well cast but has some annoying pits in the thinner raised tube that runs along the top of the hull. Sorry, I don't know what this thing is but the pits will be a pain to fix. Other than that, it will be a good weekend project. I am having someone build the full version for the IPMS Journal "Ships & Tips" column. The only gripe I have about the casting is the hull has a rougher texture on the bottom of the hull than the top. While this is easily fixed with a little sanding, I know this isn't intentional. My question is, what causes this? I assume since the model is poured from the bottom, that the resin wasn't vacuumed enough which left minute air bubbles in the resin. The bubbles rose to the top of the mold which was the bottom of the sub. Is this right? Just curious. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ritchie_deutag, Colin" Subject: KG 5 Weathering & Illustrious >> anyone out there have any ideas on weathering the superstructure of the king george the 5 1/350 tamiya << It depends what period you're trying to depict, but assuming its late in the war, the Tamiya kit depicts KG5 in Post 1943 fit, then some fairly heavy weathering would be in order. I have pics of Anson and howe entering harbour in 1945 and they are just a mess! Start with a base colour, and then apply wash's over the paint, using, for example, thinned down oil paint, and streaking it in down the superstructure, trying to duplicate the path water would take. Remember to use a was based on a paint that won't lift the base paint, eg if the ship is painted using Acrylics, then an oil based was is bast, and vice versa. Drybrushing can also be used to discolour and highlight sections, as can pastel chalk lightly brushed on . Its really a matter of practise, have a look at Ian Rusco's article in the recent Tamiya magazine on building Hood, that contains some excellent advice re weathering ships, check with Caroline at WEM for a back copy. >> British carrier at Malta - Illustrious? << I've never found the definitive history of the Illustrious action, but the book by Kenneth Poolman, re-published in the 70's, HMS Illustrious, contains some excellent first hand accounts of her agony at the hands of Fleigercorps (SP) X, (7 1000lb bombs). For another more subjective account of the action and its aftermath, try Nicholas Monseratt's, Kapalan of Malta. A rattling good read anyway, but the scenes in the carrier after its arrival in Malta are heartbreaking. She was hit while covering a convoy to Malta, and once there, despite being hit again, managed somehow to steal away in the night, and make it all the way to the US for repair. Heck of a story , and one of my favourites from WWII Colin Ritchie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Leonard, Michael W." Subject: South Dakota Class John wrote: >> There are alot of differences between the USS Massachusetts and USS South Dakota. Most of the changes are in the Superstructure area; specifically the 03 and 04 levels. Also, If you are starting with a USS South Dakota kit and want to build any of the other ships of the class, you will need to add another 5" gun to each side of the ship. You will have to modify the 02 level to accomodate the gun and it's base. << Started converting the Hasegawa SD to Massachusetts a while back, since the old Revell kit is such a dog. Have made most of the necessary mods. Replaced 5" mounts with Skywave parts and will go with their 20 and 40mm sets, too. Haven't seen the Tom's brass for the Fast BB but started using the Eduard set. Not bad but a little heavier than what Tom's and GMM produce. >> FYI, The USS Massachusetts is going into drydock probally in November at South Boston. She is due for repainting and renovation of the hull which has not seen a drydock since 1952. I believe she is also due to be painted. I don't know if she is going to get Haze Gray again or will be painted in her wartime MS22. When she goes into drydock, I will be there with my camera to photograph it. It is not every day you see a South Dakota Class Battleship out of the water . << Wow. I wonder if the drydock will be open to the public? If so, it'd tie in nicely with my plan to stop in Boston to see the Salem in April enroute to Bath Iron Works for the christening of USS Winston Churchill. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Making resin masters >> 1. How are resin masters made? Are they scratch built out of wood, plastic or machined out of aluminum? << Whatever works for a particular situation. I am fond of acrylic, as it machines well and has no grain that needs sealing. Another material that I use a lot is - reject parts! Any parts that are unusable for whatever reason is thrown into a bin - in 1/96 scale these can be fairly substantial chunks of resin. This machines very easily and is a nice pattern material. For those of you interested in pattern making and casting you might want to subscribe to the Casting Mail List, a free service. http://www.onelist.com - search for casting mailing list. Each part must be treated indivdually, which is why there is not a lot of general written information on the subject. For example, I could tell you how to make a scale thickness radar dish in a large scale (make a male pattern, vac-form over it, cut out the dish...), but that wouldn't help you much if you are trying to make a gun. Kinda like using a computer, your best bet is to jump in and make a try - then ask for help if you get stumped. Have fun! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Jowfx@webtv.net (John Fox) Subject: Re: Marat sinking According to Chronology of the War at Sea: "Attacks by I and III Gruppen of StG 2 (LtCol Dinort) on ships of the Soviet Baltic Fleet. On 21 Sept 1941, a Ju 87 of III/StG 2 under Lt. Rudel hits the battleship Marat with a 1000kg bomb. Its bow demolished, Marat settles on the bottom off the harbour mole of Kronstadt but the 30.5cm turrets C and D, and later also B, are again made operational." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Re: Rudel vs. the Marat Ken, Hans Rudel tells the story in his autobiography Stuka Pilot (Bantam 1979.) Here is the condensed version. On 9/16/41 Rudel's Stuka squadron prepares to attack the Soviet Fleet in the port of Kronstadt. Vessels there include the battleships Marat and Oktobrescaja Revolutia, five cruisers including Maxim Gorki and Kirov, and several destroyers. Bad weather delays the attack, and a few days later the wing of 30 Stukas sets out to find the sortied Marat, near the Gulf of Finland. Rudel alone achieves a bomb hit with a 1000 pounder on the afterdeck. Recon can find no trace of the ship over the next few days. Next sortie, Rudel sinks a cruiser with a similar bomb. A few days later, his wing attacks Kronstadt under intense flak. On the 21st, his group gets special 2000 pound piercing bombs for anti-battleship use. Recon reports state the Marat is in Kronstadt under repair. Rudel is incensed and leads his wing to attack the Marat. When he sights the ship, he dives, but his wingman flies past him, having neglected to use his air brakes, so Rudel removes his brakes as well, goes into a screaming 90' dive, drops his bomb, and blacks out. When he recovers, he is flying 10 feet above the water and the Marat is exploding. It breaks in half. Then the squadron returns to base they are ordered to return to attack the Kirov. Rudel has his plane "borrowed" by the group commander and has to sit out the mission. As fate would have it, the plane is lost, shot down by the Kirov, the commander and Rudel's faithful back seater killed. Rudel lives to go on to become the expert at attacking much smaller armored targets. JG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: 1:350 Tamiya Enterprise With all the talk about the Big E lately, I cound't help wondering if there would be a market for a conversion kit to bring the CVN-65 back to her original configuration with the "beehive" and all that. If sufficient interest, maybe the nice folks at WEM will oblige? An Airstrike 350 set containing A-5As, A-4s, F-8s, F-4B's etc would then be most welcome too. If I don't get beyond the point of no return on such a project, I would certainly be tempted. So far my Enterprise has been admired, but that's about it. Any others? Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Purpose of blast bags? When removing seams on my Missouri's main battery, I was pondering over why blast bags are called just that if their purpose is to keep seawater out. I mean, "blast" to me seems tied up with the blast when firing the guns... Am I sailing in the wrong sea here? Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Fletcher class Rigging As discussed before there are as many methods of rigging as there are modelers. You can use stretched sprue or monofilement line (fishing line) I usually use 2 pound and 4 pound test fishing line. It's cheap and easy to find. As for references, there is the Fletcher Class Destroyer Plan Book from the Floating Drydock, Alan Raven's Fletcher Class Destroyers, and the Al Poss' Anatomy of the Ship: The Destroyer The Sullivans. They are all good books. The first is available for around US$40 from the Flaoting Drydock (http://floatingdrydock.com/) the other two can be purchassed at used book stoors check the MX Bookfinder http://www,mxbf.com or the Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ćeljko Hanich" Subject: PE PARTS SPHERICAL RADAR SCREEN SHAPE I am wondering how to bend 2 dimensional PE part, radar screen, to get it in a proper shape, i.e. three dimensional as a spherical one. There must be some good advice out there ;o) Happy modeling, Zeljko -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Jim McCormick" Subject: Mounting of in progress models I will hopefully soon be buying my 1st cast resin warship (Alaska). How do you folks handle a large warship model in construction? I was thinking of screwing it down to the base, with a sheet of wax paper over the base to protect it. Any other suggestions? Also, how do I hide a large cash transaction from my wife (hehehe)? Jim McCormick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Marat and Illustrious >> Subject: Sinking of "Marat" << Can't help with Rudel's reported attack on MARAT. The attack on ILLUSTRIOUS was on 10 Jan 41, by aircraft from Fliegerkorps X. David Brown (Warship Profile 11) states that the Fliegerkorps was formed around Stukagruppe 1 (Ju 87R) and Stukagruppe 2 (Ju87B) operating from the Trapani complex of airfields in western Sicily - the attack took place some 75 miles east of Malta. The ship was hit by eight bombs (quoted in Friedman's British Carrier Aviation as 3x500lb and 8x1000lb (probably 250kg and 500kg) and (only mentioned in the Profile) one "out-of-control divebomber". Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Re: Olympia Question on the Olympia, I was wondering if anyone knows if the Lindberg Olympia kit is the same as the Revell kit? Also I promised some people photos of the Iowa and the Forrestal, I have a problem with my a drive and as soon as it's fixed I will send them out to you. Thanks for any info. Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume