Subject SMML11/10/98VOL329 Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:35:27 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Turret Thingies 2: Re: Card models 3: Re: 1/700 Detail Parts 4: Re: Modern CVs 5: USS Cushing (DD376) camo 6: Parts is parts... 7: Re: Thingies on Arizona Turrets 8: Airfix Vote - Oops! 9: Heller 1/400 ships? 10: Re: turret thingies 11: Re: Paravanes? 12: Large Scale R/C Models: 13: Re: Turret thingies 14: Torpedo-shaped things 15: Construction: BWN USS Massachusetts 16: Re: Green water and rangefinders 17: re: Paint it blue... 18: "A" Turret Rangefinders 19: 1/96 scale 20: Re: Turret thingies 21: turret thingies 22: Paravanes 23: ILLUSTRIOUS 24: Russian Plans Received / Need Scale Info. 25: Kudos and Questions 26: Resin questions 27: Re: Turret Thingies: 28: Re: Turrent Thingies! 29: Re: Arizona Turret thingies and a question 30: ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers. 31: Turret thingies 32: copied plastic parts 33: Yellow turret roofs 34: 1/96 scale R/C 35: 1/96 Hamilton Class USCG HE Cutters 36: Floquil Paints -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Testor's carrier models 2: Plastic Ship Modeler Magazine - Number 18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: Turret Thingies Sounds very much like Paravanes to me. Certainly RN capital ships were fitted with Sweeps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David.Hathaway@Smallworld.co.uk Subject: Re: Card models Bob Be careful for a number of reasons. 1. Photocopiers tend to distort slightly just when copying, I have measured 1-2% of in the axis of paper travel. The solution is to copy in two stages, turning at 90 degrees between each stage. 2. Enlarging models tends to exaggerate design flaws, so some parts may need tweaking after copying. 3. The model will be designed for a particular thickness and weight of card, so you may need to use thicker card to get it to go together, this makes it harder to bend, so a couple of copies on different thicknesses may be a good idea. 4. Copyright law means you shouldn't go near a photocopier with a model here in the UK, don't know about your local law, but I would be very careful to make only a single model from it and be careful about selling the original. Good luck, though, because on balance as long as the enlargement is not too extreme it should work. Do you know about the card modelling mailing list? Joining instructions are in the FAQ at: http://er4www.eng.ohio-state.edu/~browns/card-faq/ Lots of ship models available. Ships and liners are a speciality of HMv of Hamburg, available through Scheuer & Struever http://www.scheuer-struever.de/ There is a free 1:250 model of a WW1 German Torpedo Destroyer available at: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/6942/ I have made it and it is very good. Don't try shrinking it to 1:400 or 1:600 or you will go mad! Happy modelling! David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: 1/700 Detail Parts Hi Guys, As Dave and I, over the years, have heard many a request or complaint about Twin 5inch turrets, could anyone confirm or dispute that John Robert's drawings in "Naval Weapons in WW2" are the best available for this subject... and if not, who has the best and most accurate reference... BTW re. Mike C's hypothesis about WEM's motives for producing our own master patterns, this was not due to the inferior quality of available plastic parts (sorry Mike!)..we wanted to aim for originality rather than cast off other people's work. Copyright IS taken very seriously over here in the U.K. Actually, to illustrate this, for our 1/700 Type 22 frigates (PS Paolo's Battleaxe build is coming up in the next issue of NAVIS) we BOUGHT a whole load of E4 weapons sets off Skywave and still use them in the kits (not a cheap solution!)... this was in the early days before we discovered Brian Fawcett's master making abilities, so the E4 was adequate for the standards of the time. Any one of a number of resin producers could have taken this tack with their ??E6?? weapons set, to directly benefit Skywave, rather than copying... sorry chaps!! It is simply that we at WEM are aiming to be the best at what we do, and yes, this costs us both time and money in considerable quantities. However, all our smaller parts.. boats, weapons, floats, aircraft etc will eventually find their way into little bags in the PROFESSIONAL and AIRSTRIKE series for the benefit to the modeller, and as a means of making this additional work pay for itself in the longer term.... BTW, after doing the last quarter's tax/VAT calculations, we are pleased to announce that Dave and I have had a pay rise to aroundabouts 80p per hour (a dollar thirty in US terms!!). Considering that the police used to pay him around 8.50 per hour, it seems we ARE in this business for the love of it!! Is there anyone out there who actually makes a decent living at this game???? BTW, if anyone wants to come and discuss the afore-mentioned issues, directly, we'll be at the RAF Halton International Model Show on Sunday... promise I won't bring the bagpipes.. it'd be great to see you! Cheers, Caroline and Dave Carter WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: Re: Modern CVs To the poster wondering about modern CVs: -- The Italeri kits are pretty much it in injection-molded, 1:700 - 720. There was a Revell Enterprise (CVN-65) that had the ship in its original configuration; has a nice aircraft wing. -- The Italeri Nimitz through John Stennis are apparently pretty much the same kit. It's accurate only for Nimitz and Eisenhower during the early years of service. -- The America looks to be about 95 percent accurate based on photos in the Detail & Scale book. Good kit. -- The recently released Harry S Truman (CV-75)has a sprue of new parts that seem to update it to the right configuration. Otherwise it's the same Nimitz kit. -- The Italeri Forrestal class CVs (Independence, Ranger, etc.) either aren't too bad or they totally suck, depending on whom you listen to. In any event, it seems there would be a lot of mods required to make the kit look like the real thing. -- I highly recommend getting Gold Medal Models 1:720 Supercarrier photoetched detal set. The latest version ($18) has a wealth of parts for different carriers. Les -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: USS Cushing (DD376) camo Anyone have any idea (or good guess)on how the USS Cushing (DD376) was painted at the time of her loss in November 1942 at the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal? A survivor has told me that she was still in here prewar light gray, but photos from mid-1942 look darker than that so I am guessing MS11. Cushing was refitted at Mare Island in December 1941. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Steven Rogers Subject: Parts is parts... OK, I'm going out on a limb here...but I'm going to state the obvious. I don't care if you dup parts, it's difficult enough to acquire kits of varied subject matter as it is. I don't care if you get your parts from the tooth fairy. The question is does the tooth fairy's attorney care? Am I advocating wholesale theft?...NO, but unless there seems to be malicious intent, get over it. This is another Lewinsky affair. Rome burns and we listen to Vivaldi. Short of tool marks, how can you tell if the part is duplicated anyway? Profit? I did not hear of the result of the case when two venders had a dispute over Titanic photo-etch, but the best supplier gets my business anyway. In this case, the plaintiff. I copy parts for my own use all the time, I also copy CD's (read- software...) so? IF a vender is so desperate to steal from his neighbor, the lack of talent and ethics will show soon enough. Instant karma is gonna get you! I would prefer good honest dishonesty over dishonest honesty any day. Read... the house majority gags at a gnat and swallows a camel. OK, so much for my soap box, I feel better already. Copy that, Steve Rogers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Thingies on Arizona Turrets Probably paravanes used for mine sweeping ops. They were streamed from the ship in an attempt to catch moored mines, bring them to the surface, and destroy by gunfire. IMHO, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Airfix Vote - Oops! I inadvertantly dropped one of the new kit votes. There was one vote for a WW2 Landing Ship Medium. Sorry Paul, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mark4SMP@aol.com Subject: Heller 1/400 ships? I just came across a catalog that's selling quite a few of these for what appear to be decent prices. I'm hoping some of the more experienced readers of the list could give me some feedback on the quality of these Heller kits. Are there any that are particularly good, or poor? Does anyone have any general observations? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Mark Levine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: KoopmaFS@utrc.utc.com Subject: Re: turret thingies >> One my drawings of the USS Arizona there are these thingies on #2 turret barbette, about midway between the deck and the turret itself. One photo of the Arizona shows this and I found a photo of the Arkansas with this thingie too, also on #2 turret. I haven't seen another photo with this on the turrets, which suggests they were temporary items. They are roughy torpedo shaped with a little tail on the back...about 15 feet long. I'm wondering what these things are and what they are for, and if there are any good photos of one? << I think your looking at the paravanes. They are effectively torpedoes with wings up front, and they were towed from the bow of US ships when there were moored underwater mines suspected to be in the area. One paravane was deployed out to either side of the bow on towing cables of a certain length (100 to 200 yds?). As the ship would be moving forward the wings would pull the paravane out to the side to stretch the towing cables, much the same way a fishing trawler uses those large wooden panels to stretch open the 300 ft. wide nets that they tow. The mooring lines of any submerged mines that they come across would either be cut by the friction with the cable, or be pushed out towards the paravane, where there was a cable cutter mounted to the towing lug. The mines would float to the surface and could thus be seen and avoided by following ships. In the formation. I think there are drawings of these in US NAVAL WEAPONS (I cant remember the author), and theres a photo at this link. The paravane is hanging off the barbette side in front of the ladder. http://members.xoom.com/Wespe/Texas/TX17.jpg Fritz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Paravanes? >> I'm wondering what these things are and what they are for, and if there are any good photos of one? << I think what you are talking about are called Paravanes. I'll be honest, I want to know they are and what function they perform myself. Obviously, they are designed to be towed through the water, but I haven't any idea as to their function. Just ignorant, Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Large Scale R/C Models: Bill and Kaja Michaels wrote: >> A major issue I'm dealing with is displacement. My model is about the same size as a Fletcher class Destroyer in the same scale. Even at 47 inches, the model will only displace about 5 pounds. That's not a lot of weight to spend on a 4 foot model. I want most of the weight low in the hull, in the form of batteries, so I am exploring methods of lightweight constrution. Part of the superstructure is mamade from a balsa frame, skinned in .010 inch plastic sheet. It is easy to do the curved shapes, requires no fuilling to hide wood grain, and is very light. << If you are laminating directly over a sheet of balsa you should have no problem, but if you are running .010 unsupported this could cause you probelms when the model is exposed to the normal heating and cooling cycles assoicated with outdoor use. I have seen thin styrene superstructures sag and warp when not sufficently stiffened. A product I have used in a similar situation is a composite material called "Sintra" - it is a sandwhich of thin plastic with a foam core. Very light, easy to work, paints great. It comes in metric thicknesses. I bought a 4 X 8' sheet, which was about $ 40 including cutting into 1' strips for shipping. It needs to be glued with CA adhesives, as it resists the thin, solvent type glues used for styrene. A similar product is called "Gatofoam"; I haven't used this, so do check before you buy a large amount. I purchased mine through a plastic warehouse mailorder, but try a local plastics company first. These are good to know anyway, as you would be surprised how much cheaper sheet styrene is when you purchase a large sheet and cut it. For smaller models material costs are not a significant expense, but for a battleship all of those sheets of plastic add up! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Turret thingies >> One my drawings of the USS Arizona there are these thingies on #2 turret barbette, about midway between the deck and the turret itself. One photo of the Arizona shows this and I found a photo of the Arkansas with this thingie too, also on #2 turret. I haven't seen another photo with this on the turrets, which suggests they were temporary items. They are roughy torpedo shaped with a little tail on the back...about 15 feet long. I'm wondering what these things are and what they are for, and if there are any good photos of one? << Sounds like you have Minesweeping paravanes. These are streamed from the forefoot of the vessel via cables, and because of thier shape, move outward at an angle from the bow. They are designed to catch and sever the cables of moored mines, so they float to the surface for destruction. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Torpedo-shaped things Mike: You are describing stowed paravanes, items common to most large U.S. warships during World War II. In waters suspected of containing mines the paravanes would be streamed from either side of the bow, the ship in effect becoming its own minesweeper. You will notice on many period photographs a small crane or davit nearby for lauch and recovery of the paravane. On the forecastle deck, forward of the anchor handling equipment and chain, you will see smaller chain passing through fairleads or sheaves down into the water to which the paravanes were secured. Many U.S. ships had a large eye on the forefoot of the bow to which the paravane chains were secured, and this is a nice detail to incorporate into a model. Many of the monographs available on the market today pertaining to cruisers and battleships have good photos of paravanes and their associated equipment, easy to use for reference now that you know what you're looking at. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Construction: BWN USS Massachusetts I am always interested in what people are building these days, so I would like to start a construction in-progress thread on this list. In case you have not figured it out yet, Last Saturday I started construction on my model of the 1/350th Scale BWN USS Massachusetts. I will post a message every few days that will outline where I am in terms of construction. I invite all of you to ask questions and field comments on my progress and techniques I use to build this fine ship. Ship: 1/350th BWN USS Massachusetts Progress as of 10/8/98: Progress on the Hull: The hull has been the toughest part to work on. Since I have never built a resin kit this large before, It sure seemed like a lot of resin needed to be removed in order to get the hull to fit together! I know you are probably asking yourself: "Why doesn't he just built a waterline version of the ship?". My answer is that the South Dakota Class Battleships had a really interesting lower hull. The SD class ships have large narrow twin rudders and two large skegs to mount the outer props. They also had four-bladed props mounted on the skegs and five-bladed props on the inboard shafts. It is a really interesting combination and really needs to be seen considering there are 2 surviving ships in this class (Massachusetts and Alabama) afloat as museums today. I started by sanding-off the overpour that needs to be removed on both halves of the hull. I took two 12"x12" pieces of particle board and taped 2 grades of sandpaper to each board. The first board was #80 grit and the second board was #150 grit. I went out on the porch, turned-on the ballgame and began sanding-away. It took me about 4.5 hours to completely sand off all of the overpour down to the where it needed to be in order to mate the two halves together. I would use the #80 grit until I got real close to the end and then switch to the #150 in order to smooth out the resin and finish. While sanding, I would check the fit to make sure I did not go too far. After I finished sanding (boy did my arms ache!) I noticed that the two halves did not exactly mate properly. Since any large resin casting tends to shrink and flex a bit, I did not expect them to fit exactly without some additional sanding and filling with body putty. The next day, I bought some epoxy cement and found my tube of Dr. Microtools putty. I check fitted the hull to determine what would be the best spot to mate both halves together without too much under/over fit. I then poured the epoxy glue down the centerline of the sanded areas on the hull. I took the putty and applied it to the outside edge of both halves of the hull. I then pressed the two halves together and made a Massachusetts sandwich! . Of course, the putty oozed out of the cracks; which is exactly what I wanted it to do! I made sure that the hull halves were aligned properly, scraped-off the excess putty, and then placed it in a safe spot in order to cure properly. Tomorrow, I will post the progress on the gun sub-assemblies. John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: Green water and rangefinders Some KM ships had their stereoscopic rangfinders removed from the A-turret, due to green water. As German radar was not as effective as the Allies, the rangefinders were not removed. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: Paint it blue... Thanks for the painting info on South Dakota and Washington >> I have IJN Kirishima and BB-56 from Classic Warships, and intend to purchase the BWN BB-57. Since all ships will be displayed together, I need accurate information to build the exhibit. At least we know on the night of Nov. 14-15 the turret tops were not yellow. << I have both the Classic Warships North Carolina and the BWN USS Massachusetts. Both are excellent kits and really are works of art. I highly recommend both models to anyone reading this. I plan on making the USS Washington in her November 1942 configuration. Of course with that said, I will now have to get a Classic Warships Kirishima to go with it . John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Duane Fowler Subject: "A" Turret Rangefinders >> I know that a lot of ships had trouble with green water, sometimes so bad that the stereoscopic rangefinders in the A-turret were removed. << Actually, the lower rangefinders weren't removed because of the water, they were removed because they were useless. The lower turrets were too close to the surface for their rangefinders to be of any use. They couldn't see any but the closest targerts. As for the Blast bags, I agree that they were to keep the water out. The KGV class didn't use them and had to turn the forward turrets as far back as possible when sailing in heavy seas. The low straight bow didn't help matters. They were known to be VERY wet ships. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: 1/96 scale Hi Gang! Talk about kits in the loft! I probably have 5 or 600 kits stashed away. (I used to be asst. manager in a hobby shop) anyway, I have the following 1/96 scale fiberglass hulls from Scale Shipyard: Colorado class BB to be built as USS West Virginia BB-48 1941 Pittsburgh CA to be built as USS Oregon City CA-122 1946 Sumner class DD to be USS Ault DD-698 Benson class DD to be USS Barton DD-599 Knox class FF final ID to be determined. Between finishing a scratch built 1/144 USS Nimitz (WL) for a friend and all of my other building(1/700, 1/350, aircraft and armor) I have not done much with there monsters :-) I built a drive train into the Ault, but I wasn't very pleased with the motor layout, so I removed all but the shafts. I ordered a drive train for the Knox from Loyalhanna, but they haven't gotten it from Sirmar yet. Otherwise I am collecting fittings and plans. ( I bought a full set of eleven quad forties from John Haines and they are outstanding! Now if he would only build some twin 20mm's for my Oregon City!) I hope to get back into building this winter in earnest. If I get that drive train, I'll probably try to crank out the Knox first. So I will be looking foreward to sharing info on "Big Boat Building" with the folks who know a lot more about it than I do! Thanks for the chance to ramble, Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: Turret thingies Mike Those are the Type "D" paravanes. They're designed to "fly" through the water at the end of a cable, pulling away from the ship. If the cable encountered a moored mine, the mooring cable would slide down the paravane cable to a pair of nippers, which would cut it free. It's essentially a WWI invention. Burl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Mark Seitz Subject: turret thingies Mike, I believe what you are referring to are the paravanes. Paravanes were part of an anti-mine measure. The paravanes were attached to the ship via cables, and were dragged through the water. The shape of the paravanes made them "fly", kind of, and so could be controlled to a limited degree. Strung between the paravane, and the vessel, was a cable for cutting the mooring lines of mines. Once the mooring line had been cut, the mine floated to the surface, and was dispatched by gunfire (usually not the main battery). The rigging cables also tended to push moored mines away from the hull of the sweeping vessel. I'm not sure how often, or even if, paravanes were rigged out on capital ships during the war, but I'm sure one of the experts here could enlighten us further. Regards, Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: tomkremer Subject: Paravanes Those torpedo shaped objects are called paravanes and were used to help protect ships from mines when underway. They were streamed down and away from the bows of the ship on the theory that the anchor cables connecting mines to their moorings would contact the paravane wires and be deflected away from the ship and guided out to the paravanes and severed by cutters mounted there. Best regards, Tom Kremer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: SMML - ILLUSTRIOUS ILLUSTRIOUS - Stuka Attack 1941. Further to my earlier posting, some more details can be found "Into the Assault" Peter C Smith (John Murray: London,1985). This notes that Major Ennecerus from II/StG2 and Major(?) Hozzel from I StG1, both based in the Trepan complex of airfields, led the attack. Their aircraft were "Black & grey mottle, half black and white below" Also, despite my earlier assertion that the attack took place east of Malta, the British Naval Staff History puts the location 55 miles west of the island! Different references differ....... No surprise there! Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Russian Plans Received / Need Scale Info. As you may recall, I have been working a trade for some Russian plans of a Moskva class helicopter cruiser. I sent the books in trade and I got the plans yesterday. They are good quality and well drawn. The only problem I have with the plans is he copied them on 11x17 sheets which means I have to tape them together and have a scale copy made from them. They are large scale (M1:100 scale). Can anyone translate this? I know it's metric but I need to know the equivalent in American scale (1/350, 1/700, 1/96, etc.). I got hull sections, complete deck layouts, port and starboard views all in Russian of course. The copies have some background from a cheap copier it appears, but all the drawings are easily read. If you wish to do business with this gentleman, he is desperate for informational books and magazines. His email address is urin@nevsky.net. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ed Grune Subject: Kudos and Questions Kudos -- My compliments and thanks go to Ted and Debra Paris of Iron Shipwrights. I bought their 1939 Program Sackville Fl**** class corvette second hand. When I got it home and examined it more closely, I found it to be missing parts. I wrote Iron Shipwrights and asked if I could obtain replacement parts. They shipped several sprues worth. No questions or requests for payment. Thanks too for including your price list. I'm working on the order now. Now for the questions: (I hope I'm not going over plowed ground asking questions which have been addressed before) I'd like to do a Fl**** class corvette in the classic Western Approaches paint scheme. I'm not a stickler for real accuracy in the paint colors. I figure that when the pigment hits the plastic - its right. However, I would like to be close. I have the mixes for the WA colors. Is the WA scheme appropriate for the Sackville kit? Its the early configuration without the 271 radar lantern. What was the wartime deck color? What color would the throats of the vents be? I've seen the photos of the Sackville at Halifax, but they're taken from a couple of stories up and across the parking lot. Does anyone have a set of walkaround photos of the Sackville or other Fl**** class? Can someone provide me with information on the dimensions of the shrapnel padding on the deckhouse? Were they all the same size? Were they painted or left natural canvas? I think I'll do some masters in Sculpey and see about casting copies. Thats all for now. I've just about gotten the hull cleaned-up and ready to be primed. More later as the project progresses. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Tim Perry Subject: Resin questions Regarding fine bubbles in castings, these might be caused by the caster not letting the vacuum off quickly enough, and the resin vapour not redissolving into the liquid resin before it started to cure. This is probably due to using too small a vacuum pump, or too fast a resin. A lot of PU resins sold as 'hobby' materials (no disrespect to anyone using them of course!) have been developed to be easy to use, tolerent of inaccurate mixing or wide temperature ranges. This makes them easy to use on a home workbench set-up. However, if you have the facilities to get a very hard vacuum very quickly, as well as using moulds at a controlled, elevated temperature, there are other resins that have much better casting qualities. They are tougher, more stable, have shrinkages measured in small fractions of a percentage point, and are clear or white, to be pigmented whatever colour you want, including translucent. They do tend to be more expensive, and need better storage conditions however. The rapid prototypeing industry has driven amazing developments in the field of RTV moulding and casing, and I am sure these improvements will filter down to the hobbyist very soon! If anyone wants more details of commercial contacts (in the UK/Europe in particular,) get in touch with me directly. Tim Perry Bristol, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Turret Thingies: Mike, The "thingies" you are looking at are paravanes. They are towed alongside the ship on a cable and have fins which are intended to cut the cables of anchored mines, which will then float to the surface and can be destroyed by gunfire. These "thingies" were commonly carried by battleships, and cruisers, often by destroyers, and of course, by minesweepers, during the interwar years. And, they could be found on ships of virtually every navy. The design became pretty standard through the world during WW I. Since there will probably be about 10,000 more replies to your question, with every detail revealed, I'll leave it at that. Soon, you'll know more about paravanes than you ever dreamed possible! Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Mark Kwasnycia Subject: Re: Turrent Thingies! Hi Mike, I'm not half the expert that a lot of the fellows here are, but I'd bet my bippee that they're paravanes... a nifty otter board type device that was streamed from the foot of the stem to clear floating mines. Always sounded like clearing a minefield by holding your hands over your ears while jumping up and down, but they generally worked pretty well. Let's see what the others guys say...! Mark Kwasnycia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Arizona Turret thingies and a question I think that the finned items on the number 2 turret base are some type of paravane for mine clearing/avoidance purposes. Some one mentioned a web site on the XOOM community that contained pictures of the USS Texas I had http://members.xoom.com/wespe/ but that doesn't work. I would appreciate a correctt URL. Thank you. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers. Question for the group: I recently acquired a couple of photos of ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers (that I will be publishing in the next PSM) that were taken in 1945 at the Captian Cook drydock in Sidney Harbor. Neither ship is identified and several of this class were in the Pacific in 1945. One of the ships carries the deck code letter "R". Does anyone know which ship carried this code? Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones Subject: Re: Turret thingies >> One my drawings of the USS Arizona there are these thingies on #2 turret barbette, about midway between the deck and the turret itself. One photo of the Arizona shows this and I found a photo of the Arkansas with this thingie too, also on #2 turret. I haven't seen another photo with << Without seeing the drawing - I would hazzard a guess that from the description these are paravanes. Large warships frequently carried these and usually secured them vertically on bulkheads and barbettes - out of the way when not in use. Dan Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: copied plastic parts I guess I owe an explanation and apology for the hornet's nest I seem to have directed toward myself. I should have mentioned that when I first started business and approached Skywave/Pit Road about distributing my products I sent them samples of my kits. I made a point of telling them that I WAS including copies of their parts in my kits and asked them to notify me if there was ANY problem with this. They never responded to that and subsequently started ordering my kits. That is what I took as tacit approval. Had they complained I would have immediately stopped. It was a simple solution at the time. Until I can rectify the situation I guess my kits will continue to be "tainted" by non-original parts. Farewell and best wishes to those who object to that and my deepest thanks to those who continue to purchase my efforts. Sincerely, Mike Cibovic Corsair Armada Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Yellow turret roofs In posting No.22 of SMML Vol.312, Keith Butterley mentioned a photo of TIRPITZ with the yellow turret roof of a destroyer in the foreground. Thanks to Jan-Evert Foeth I got a copy of this photo. He also pointed out to me that the turret looked rather like that of a HIPPER-class cruiser than a destroyer gun, and he is right. This photo was taken from HIPPER, and it looks like this was done at the start of Operation Rosselsprung (the later canceled attack on convoy PQ 17). Sorry, Keith - but it is an interesting photo anyway! Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: 1/96 scale R/C Several people asked that we post some info re 1/96 R/C on this list. Someone contacted me off-line, this is a copy of my answer. I guess it will either get the ball rolling, or not!! Always happy to talk R/C ships. Most of the people around here (Victoria BC Canada) use ACE radios in their boats. They come either 5 or 7 channels, and the transmitters are set up with one channel on a horizontal stick for steering and two on vertical sticks for throttle. This set up is specfically for boats, and is very easy to use compared to the aircraft type which have 2 channels with both horizontal and vertical movements on each stick. Unfortunately ACE is not in production at the moment, but they should be back in the next month or so. They were made in the USA, but I hear they will be made in Japan or Korea. The most popular speed control around here is made by Hy-tec, a Korean company. It is a solid state fully porportional control with reverse and capable of handling 10 amps and 8.5 v. That is more than you can ever draw if you use the 7.2v battery packs from R/C cars and surplus motors from photocopiers or the small motors from Billings with a 1 1/2'' (scale 12 ') prop.. Don't use them in cars, though. You can exceed 10 amps in a car and toast the electronics! If you have 2 boats, I suggest you get a second receiver on the same frequency and use the same transmitter for both boats. The drawback to this is that you can't run both boats at the same time, but it does save a few bucks and doesn't clutter the homestead with spare transmitters. The most common error with R/C boats is that people tend to overpower them. If you are using scale props (like 3 blade 12' dia), you only need a motor 1"dia and 2"long! I like to reduce the turns on the props slightly by using pulleys/o-rings to connect the motors to the shafts. Saves alignment problems and you can put the drive motors where they are neat or out of the way. You also avoid a mechanical connector, many of which are noisy acoustically and electrically The model I am finishing right now is HMCS Kootenay a 370' 2900 tonne post-war DDE in 1/96. Power is a billings motor controlled by a Hy-tec speed control and a pulley reducer (1.5x) as a connection to a modified 5 blade Rivabo prop on each shaft. The gun rotates (servo) and elevates (cam). It has a lattice mast and radars are driven by belt and pulley. I am workingon the ASROC launcher which will also rotate and elevate a cell. The bitter lesson for me on this model is that I did not get all the operating stuff working before I started detailing, so I keep a drinking glass handy to hold the parts I knock off! The ship is full scale. I made my own fibreglas hull, superstructure and details are mostly plexiglas and styrene with some odd brass pieces and Gold Medals PE stanchions. That keeps the upperworks light, and a couple of pounds of lead high in the hull causes it to lean in corners just like the real ship. The model is 6.5 pounds.You can get the specs at: http://www.uss-salem.org/navhist/canada/postwar/restigou/ RESTIGOUCHE Class, look at the IRE conversion. Ron in Victoria BC Hi Arthur, Always happy to talk R/C ships. Most of the people around here use ACE radios in their boats. They come either 5 or 7 channels, and the transmitters are set up with one channel on a horizontal stick for steering and two on vertical sticks for throttle. This set up is specfically for boats, and is very easy to use compared to the aircraft type sticks which have 2 channels and both horizontal and vertical movements. Unfortunately ACE is not in production at the moment, but they should be back in the next month or so. They were made in the USA, but I hear they will be made in Japan or Korea. The most popular speed control around here is made by Hy-tec, a Korean company. It is a solid state fully porportional control with reverse and capable of handling 10 amps and 8.5 v. That is more than you can ever draw if you use the 7.2v battery packs from R/C cars and surplus motors from photocopiers or the small motors from Billings with a 1 1/2'' (scale 12 ') prop.. Don't use them in cars, though. You can exceed 10 amps and toast the electronics! If you have 2 boats, I suggest you get a second receiver on the same frequency and use the same transmitter for both boats. The drawback to this is that you can't run both boats at the same time, but it does save a few bucks and doesn't clutter the homestead with spare transmitters. The most common error with R/C boats is that people tend to overpower them. If you are using scale props (like 3 blade 12' dia), you only need a motor 1"dia and 2"long! I like to reduce the turns on the props slightly by using pulleys/o-rings to connect the motors to the shafts. Saves alignment problems and you can put the drive motors where they are neat or out of the way. Sorry, I have rambled on a bit here, and don't know if I have answered your question. The boat I am finishing right now is HMCS Kootenay a 370' 2900 tonne post-war DDE in 1/96. Power is a billings motor controlled by a Hy-tec speed control, and a pulley reducer (1.5x) as a connection to a modified 5 blade Rivabo prop on each shaft. The gun rotates (servo) and elevates (cam). It has a lattice mast and radars are driven by belt and pulley. I am working on the ASROC launcher which will also rotate and elevate a cell. The bitter lesson is that I did not get all the operating stuff working before I detailled, so I keep a drinking glass handy to hold the parts I knock off! The ship is full scale. Are your ships combat? ie BB guns? I think your requirements might be different than mine if you are? I suspect you may want a single shaft and low speed isn't desireable? Ron in Victoria BC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: 1/96 Hamilton Class USCG HE Cutters Bill wrote: >> A major issue I'm dealing with is displacement. My model is about the same size as a Fletcher class Destroyer in the same scale. Even at 47 inches, the model will only displace about 5 pounds. That's not a lot of weight to spend on a 4 foot model. << I think 4 lb. is a tad light, Bill. The formula is (displacement)x(scale cubed)x2000lb. For a Hamilton, I make that to be 3250/(96x96x96)x2000= 7.35lb. Neat ships and this will be a fantastic model! Ron in Victoria B C Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Rob & Heather Weilacher Subject: Floquil Paints I've heard the news that Floquil Marine Colors are being discontinued due to Testors aquisition of Floquil-PollyS Corp. I do not know what their intentions are for the Pollyscale paint line, but Pollyscale does carry about a half-dozen of the USN colors (Haze Gray, Navy Blue, 20-B, etc). I'm not sure anyone actually uses these paints currently, or knows that they exist. I've used them in the past on armor (sorry) projects. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Testor's carrier models >> I recently have become interested in doing a 1/700 or 1/720 scale modern carrier (Independence/America/Nimitz..). I see Italeri has some in 1/720 - which ones are more accurate, or is there another manufacturer in this scale? << Rob, Unfortunately, Testors claims the market on the modern carriers in 1/700 / 720 scale. They are basically accurate, but they all need some "accurizing" since Testors used the same hull on all the ships in each class (Maybe on all the models. I haven't checked). Jim Shirley makes a carrier (I can't recall what class) in the Korean war configuration but it's pretty expensive. I feel this era is badly neglected. If your going to build a Nimitz class carrier we produce a real nice detail set for these models. Checkout the web site. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Plastic Ship Modeler Magazine - Number 18 PSM 18 is at the printers and will be mailing out soon. Contents: Articles: Part 1 of a new series by Ray Bean on building the Jim Shirley kit of the 27C ORISKANY and dealing wioth the differences betwen the various FRAM ESSEX class carriers. PETR VELIKIJ class Russian battleship with 1/700 plans. British tramp steamers - turret ships and trunk steamers - types unique to the period 1880-1912 with two 1/700 plans. More of the superb 1/700 dioramas by Chris Drage (3 pages of photos). HMS KITTIWAKE feature with large scale drawings by John Lambert (first of two parts). Build-up appraisal of Classic Warship's kit of the USS WASHINGTON in 1/350 scale by Ken Summa. Photo feature - ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers - 1945. Regular features: News - reviews of new products - 8 pages of new kit reviews and product announcements. Reviews - 3 pages of recent books useful to ship modelers. One to One Hundred - by Paul Jacobs - news of collector models in 1/1200-1/1250. Navinfotel - news of the real naval world by Ray Bean. Mail Call - our letters colume that is becoming more interesting with every issue. (The debate about BISMARCK's yellow turret tops is old news to PSM subscribers). Plastic Ship Modeler is the ONLY magazine devoted exclusively to static models of modern (powered) ships. In every issue you will find all the latest information from around the world on new kits, books, after-market accessories, and news from the real naval world. Plans are included in each issue and subjects are international in scope. Articles deal with both naval and merchantile subjects. Not just about modeling, PSM articles deal equally with the ship's history. Some of our leading authorities have contributed to the pages of PSM, such as Alan Raven, Al Ross, and John Lambert. If you are serious about your hobby, you need to subscribe to PSM. Subscription rates: (44 pages - published quarterly). $20.00 (4 issues) USA, Canada, and the Americas. $25.00 (4 issues) All other overseas destinations. Sample copy - $6.00 (USA) $7.00 (overseas) postpaid. Plastic Ship Modeler P.O. Box 2183 Arvada, CO 80001-2183 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume