Subject SMML14/10/98VOL332 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:39:25 +1000 shipmodels@wr.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Copied plastic parts - Robert Lockie 2: Floquil/PollyScale 3: Re: Metric scale conversion one more time 4: Re: E Boat Deck Colors 5: Re: Illustrious Class Carriers 6: More Bismarck unsolved Mysteries 7: Re: Pollyscale Paints are Excellent 8: Re: Copying plastic parts 9: HMS Exeter markings 10: Re: I'm Back! 11: USS CUSHING 12: Kudos and Questions 13: Heller De Grasse 14: Re: Airfix Ship Models 15: Russian drawings in M1:100 scale 16: Making money out of models 17: Copied parts 18: Re: Ironshipwright 19: Re: Card Models & Heller Kits 20: Re: Tamiya 1/350 aircraft 21: ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers 22: Heller kit Jean Bart - Need Help 23: paint removal 24: Two Cents on Copyrights -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IRON DUKE and BENBOW KITS 2: AD: 1/200 Nichimo Yamato for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "RLOCKIE" Subject: Copied plastic parts - Robert Lockie I would like to endorse Tim Perry's (and Caroline's) point about the reason for using your own masters in preference to ex-injection moulded efforts. I would struggle to make a decent 4 barrel pom pom in 1/700 (have you seen WEM's version with the conical flash hiders?) but I am certain that it is far better than any attempts I have seen so far from a plastic kit. I have made a few bits and pieces for a resin AFV (sorry, I mess about with tanks as well) manufacturer here in the UK and the resolution which was possible on castings from my one piece tank gearbox was streets ahead of the only attempt I have seen on the part in plastic. And it came out as a one piece casting! The undercuts which are possible with a flexible mould material (not to mention the fact that square components can be made square and without any nasty release taper needing hours of careful filing and sanding) make it a waste to use an injection plastic part as a starting point. There are far less compromises with resin/white metal, and it is only recently that parts of the plastic kit industry seems to have woken up to the fact and starting using multi-part moulds to overcome some of the problems with the medium. I shall shortly be tackling a 1/700 2cm vierling for my Zerstorere as the Skywave efforts are pretty grim and the 1/350 efforts from Tamiya see little better. I will not be attempting the flash hiders however.... If only somebody would release them in resin (hint, hint). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Floquil/PollyScale Hi gang, Without sounding like a "Color Policeman"...most of the PollyScale Naval colors are pretty whacky...We had a long conversation regarding these colors at the IPMS Nats this year, I must admit, we had a good group. John Snyder, Randy Short, myself and Alan Raven, talked to a decent sized group of people about some of these colors. Since Snyder & Short are the guys doing the 'Real McCoy' color chips, maybe he'd like to comment on the accuracy...John, you out there? BTW, Synder & Short's color chips are a steal, under $15.00 I believe, and are available from Pacific Front in the US, White Ensign in the UK, and direct from the manufacturers. Jeff "I'm not a color fanatic dammit" Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Metric scale conversion one more time I didn't receive any answers to this email last time so I thought I'd give it one more try. The Moskva plans I have are 1M:100. What does this mean? 1 meter equals 100 millimeters? My metric conversion is rusty so can anyone give me the formula to convert metric scale to standard ship scales (1/350, 1/700 , etc.)? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Re: E Boat Deck Colors >> What colours were the decks of 'E' Boats in WW Two. << I believe the original color was black, and/or a dark-grey. I have also noted the varying tones in original BW photos and I attribute this to sun and seawater fading. I have seen an original wartime color photo of an early type E-Boat in the Med, the deck was painted a middle green (like a pea-soup) color. Rather a nice color contrast with a dark grey roof top and white hull. I noted that the rubber dingy was a medium grey, and not yellow or red. I have a question, why are German Schnellboote referred to as "E-Boats" and not "S-Boats"? What does the "E" stand for? David Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Illustrious Class Carriers Dan, Your right, all four Illustrious Class carriers served with the British Pacific Fleet, as well as well as their two bigger half-sisters IMPLACABLE and INDEFATIGABLE. Illustrious' Deck letter was "D" I have a photo. Vistorious' was 'V' as she was modernised and she was still carrying it right into the sixties, So it either Indomitable or Formidable, Since Ark Royal IV also carried 'R' on her flightdeck, it's unlikely to be Idomitable as she was around after Ark Royal First Commissioned. However, Formidable was the first Illustrious to be decommissioned and scrapped in 1953, so I would say ArkRoyal inherited it from her. I would say the Carrier in your photo is HMS Fornidable, Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: More Bismarck unsolved Mysteries Hi Just got word from a colleague researching the Bismarck. He's located, but has been denied access to, a packet of photos taken by the Royal Navy of the Bismarck taken during her final battle and destruction. They are at a British Government archive (I don't know which one) and are being withheld from the public until 2017. I don't yet know any more than this, but will share any details as I get them. An unfortunate situation for us, as these photos could probably solve the yellow turret top controversey and answer a lot of other questions once and for all. I suspect that they are withheld because they show the RN unbritishly firing on a defensless and burning ship. Has anyone else heard about these photos? Is there such a thing as the "Freedom of Information Act" in Great Britain? The truth is out there, Scully. David Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JGordon262@aol.com To: shipmodels@wr.com.au Subject: Re: Pollyscale Paints are Excellent The Pollyscale acrylic paint is everything I want in a model acrylic paint-finely ground pigments, a formula that really bonds to plastic, an ease of sprayability, and a satiny finish. It brushes beautifully straight from the bottle. I seem to use two colors more than any other in my shipmodeling, those being Ocean Grey and Gunship Grey. These two are very complimentary for shading effects and with a custom mix of the two (along with white) you can do a lot of different navys. I wholeheartedly recommend the product if you can get it. JG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: Copying plastic parts There have been a number of posts reprimanding Mike Czibovic after his admission of duplicating some Skywave parts for his resin kits. People have brought up legal and ethical issues. Well, I think these people are making much ado about nothing and are overlooking some down-to-earth facts: From what he says (and I believe), Mike never duplicated those parts with the intent to 'make money off of other peoples' work'. He did it to save time. Corsair Armada is not his full-time job and as most people know, its hard to find time to build kits, let alone design them. He also never passed the pieces off as his work. Obviously, Skywave doesn't care that he includes resin copies of his pieces. Actually, no one really cares. It's not hard to look at these pieces in question and see where they came from. I'm sure almost anyone who has seen the Skywave pieces would recognize the resin ones. Yet no one has made a case against it. Corsair Armada creates kits for us- the modellers. I don't think it is a source of income that anyone lives off of. Who benefits from all the work - us. So why make a fuss over a couple of small parts that were copied? Would you rather pay $15 extra for the work to make these parts from scratch? You may use them, you may replace them with Skywave parts, or photoetch or make your own. Or should Mike not include these parts and tell you to go out and buy the appropriate parts from Skywave? Whatever the case may be, you end up paying for the extra work. I think the motivation behind the copied parts was to help the modeller, not himself. I, for one, don't care if the parts are copies or originals. I still hold Corsair Armada in very high esteem, thinking them to be the best US maker of resin kits and on par with Waveline. For all the legal and ethical fussing, remember that Corsair Armada (and other cottage industry companies) are in the business for you. Where else can you submit kit ideas directly to the designer, get replacement/upgrade parts at no fee, or get building tips without all the corporate hassle that comes along with the big plastic injection companies? Give them a break. These are people working in their spare time to give you the ship of your dreams to build on your bench. Don't bite their heads off for trying to make life easier for you. If you don't approve, then don't buy. But don't go and remind Mike how many laws he may have broken or how you will never consider buying one of his models again. Let's keep this list friendly. If Skywave (the supposedly 'injured' party) does not care, then that should end the issue. Sorry for the diatribe but it just bothered me to see someone who does such good work get hounded on a minor issue that in the larger scheme of things does not matter at all. As a disclaimer- I do not know Mike Czibovic personally nor have I ever spoken to him directly. I know his name through the Corsair Armada kits I built and through SMML. Keep up the great work, Mike! Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: HMS Exeter markings Hello everybody, Can anyone tell me if the 'EX' recognition markings on HMS Exeter's turrets were on all three turrets, or just selected ones? Thanks, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: I'm Back! Hallo Alberto, and welcome back to the fold.. commiserations re. your computer. This brings back horrible memories of a disc crash over 2 years ago.. we lost 1 months of work... despite a back up.. the last tape back ups hadn't worked properly due to part of the hard drive relating to the back-up being damaged!! We live in an area of fluctuating power supply from overhead cables.. and were totally unaware of the damage.. a new drive had been written off in 3 months... possibly also damage due to telephone cable "near misses". When the second computer's drive went down around 5 months later, the damage was commensurate with 10 year's worth of normal use... a useful conversation at that time with Jon Warneke pointed us in the direction of 1. a stabilised power supply, and 2. a surge protector for our telephone line/modem Touchwood.. it seems to have worked.. that power box will sometimes leap into action 5 or 6 times a day! Hopefully the telephone line is also protected... I don't know whether this would have been sufficient to protect your line Alberto, but to EVERYONE out there, get yourself some protection (Oh no, I can feel a Clinton joke coming on....) Luv Caroline P.S. Have you started that 1/350 Sheffield yet? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: USS CUSHING Pre-war light gray? Almost certainly not! Ms11 sounds like a reasonable guess. Since she refitted at Mare Island, you might want to check with the Mare Island Museum to see if they have photos of her taken at the time of the refit. I know later in the war they photographed refits extensively. There's also the National Archives, and the Naval History Center.... Her Deck Log or War Diary might be worth searching out as well. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Kudos and Questions Well, insofar as those Western Approaches colors go, my partner in paint, Randy Short, is currently working on developing mixes for all the RN colors. I suspect these will--as did his USN mixes--show up in Plastic Ship Modeler, but it may be a few months. Or, we're still shooting for the end of the year to get out set of 27 RN WW2 paint chips out, so you could do your own mixing and matching to those.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Heller De Grasse Hi folks, Had a look in the box of this kit last week, and suddenly I was hooked on it. Sure, it's different, but whot do you expect from somebody who drives a French car, and enjoys every mile?:) Besides, it looked really nice, and all details could be accentuated and improved with a Gold Medal Models set. Does anybody know anything about this kit? Is it accurate? Any construction and detailing tips? Secondly, the lifeboats are supposed to be painted Humbrol no.7 which is a glossy tan colour. Sounds strange to me, but is this really so? Jens (francophile-to-be) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Airfix Ship Models Hi Chris, Hi all ye olde AIRFIX fans.. I spoke to Trevor Snowden of Airfix at Bath Model Show back in August, pointing out that WEM were developing a range of 1/600 scale detail sets fro Airfix kits. He expressed exactly the sentiments echoed by the dealer whom Chris spoke to.. the Warspite and Iron Duke re- releases have been a complete flop with several thousand unsold kits... the upshot of the conversation was that Airfix will not put any investment into new ship kits, and there will be no ship re-releases for the forseeable future... also that many tools are completely shot, e.g. all the destroyer tooling.. still, there are so many unbuilt Airfix kits in circulation that finding them shouldn't be a problem for the model ship builder. Not what people want to hear I guess... Cheers, Caroline -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Denis G. Campbell" Subject: Russian drawings in M1:100 scale Rusty, I'm no expert but I would guess that 1:100 means 1/100 scale (doesn't matter whether it is metric or not). Using the colon in place of the slash is common practice on things like maps and charts - represents a ratio eg. 1:100 means a ratio of 1 to 100 Regards Denis Campbell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Malcolm Subject: Making money out of models I thought the story was " do you know how to make a small fortune out of Models"? Answer "Start with a large one" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Malcolm Subject: Copied parts Ive been reading this thread over the weeks with great interest. I am totally against any copying. Ive been finally prompted to write by Tims £125 per hour chat with a lawyer (why didnt you use the £5 scheme Tim)? Some time back a Spanish manufacturer asked me to be his agent for a range of figures he was having produced in Taiwan....super you think but they were all copies of Airfix Matchbox and Atlantic designs. He was talking container loads. Was I tempted? No not really. I phoned up the MDs of Airfix and Revell UK who were both known to me to tell them of this and subsequently sent them the samples. Neither company took action in the end as far as I know (earnt me lots of brownie points though.....to this day I get advance notice of what airfix are going to delete and rerelease next year ( some of your survey voters will be well happy)). Airfix decided it was not worth the trouble to pursue,Revell Uk passed it on to its German parent. So Tim you are not alone. Another thing which annoys me and I do have a vested interest here as I run Magazine Madness which specialises in providing back issues of magazines is people offering to photocopy articles from magazines. I even get cheapskates phoning up saying I dont want the whole magazine ( and the cost of any back issue never exceeds the cover price of a current issue of the mag) can you just photocopy the pages I want? Certainly I reply it will be a pound a page ie more than the cost of a back issue!!!! Malcolm.........proprietor KingKit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "David P. Judy III" Subject: Re: Ironshipwright Just a note fellas, This weekend, at the VA Beach Regionals, I picked up One of Iron Shipwright's USS Alaska 1/350, just now looking at it closer, so far...................WOW !!! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Card Models & Heller Kits David, Thanks for the rips on card ships. It seems that Victorian Ironclads and pre-dreadnoughts are extremely popular in these kits,so I think there is going to be yet another asprct to my collection, Mark, I have made quite a few of te Heller big ships over the years. At the time they were actually made they were very good, the French Battleships bordering on excellent, but quite a few of them are lacking ib detail that we get these days.The general outline is generally very good, but I would suggest for KGV and Illustrious especially, a good set of plans will be handy. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are particularly a handsome pair, Bismarck and Tirpitz aren't bad from memory but have been overshadowed by the tamiya 350 scale ones. They have a lot of potential if 400 scale is your thing, especially with gold medals details sets. Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: LubenLarry@aol.com Subject: Re: Tamiya 1/350 aircraft Been out of town for awhile, so if this is a redundant answer, my apologies. I built the Big E about 10 years ago. As I recall, included with the kit: 8 F-14 8 A-7 8 F-18 8 Vikings 8 A-6 In the additional A/C set: 2 E-2C 2 SH-3? (helicopters) 8 F-4 2 EA-6B It is possible to add stores to these aircraft. I added gear doors, pylons and refueling probes (on the A-6's) all made from index cards. I made drop tanks and Phoenix missles from sprue, sidewinders from small bits of wire. Now if only I could still see! Larry Bartlett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Graham Holmes Subject: ILLUSTRIOUS class carriers Dan, In 1945, the deck letter R was carried by both Formidable and Glory. The former was repaired in Sydney, and had the letter removed (as I understand) prior to its departure back to the UK. I don't believe that the latter was drydocked in Sydney during '45. Hope this helps. Graham Holmes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Gene Wisner" Subject: Heller kit Jean Bart - Need Help I have a Heller kit of the Jean Bart in 1/400th scale. It has been in the closet for awhile and I have recently pulled it out to start to work on it. The problem is there is only one page of instructions describing how to put it together. Are there any other sheets with diagrams showing how the parts go together. Could anyone make copies of these for me to use. Also what PE sets are available for this model? Thanks, Gene Wisner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: mitch fisher Subject: paint removal Before I go experimenting I thought I would solicit some advice. I recently purchased an old Revell "Hawaiian Pilot" model that had been started and partially painted. The paint looks to me to be enamel and I would like to remove it as easily and as safely as possible. Any suggestions on taking off 30+ year old paint? Mitch Fisher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: Two Cents on Copyrights You buy a model airplane kit and are displeased with the clarity of the canopy. Out comes the vacuform machine and you make a perfectly clear copy. Question. Is this a violation of the copyright laws? If you read some of the postings here and in RMS and believe them, you would conclude that ANY copying is illegal. Not true. The "fair use" concept is found in the copyright laws of most countries. The author can license you the right to use his intellectual property, but he cannot impose on you rules for "how it is used." You bought the kit (license to use the intellectual property) in order to build a model airplane or ship. The vacuform copy you made is within a reasonable guideline of activity construed as "building the model." Therefore it is "fair use" and not a violation of copyright laws. You can take this concept to court and win with it. Other examples of legal copying: Backup tapes of software. Transpositions of music (change the key or solo instrument of a song, say from piano to guitar). Blowing up drawings to different scales. Just don't try to sell these copies as your own work. So please legal eagles, refrain from broadcasting "ALL COPIES ARE ILLEGAL." This is flatly not true and misleading to many readers. Regards Vess Irvine Denver, Colorado -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: IRON DUKE and BENBOW KITS WEM would like it to be known that we are not going to be reworking either our 1/700 HMS Iron Duke or Benbow... it seems that these master patterns have quite simply disappeared along with Rutland Casting, our former casters. BTW, we enjoyed the RAF Halton modelshow, rapidly selling out of 1/700 Bluebells. We enjoyed in particular, meeting John Lambert in person at last (what a seriously NICE guy (!) with an excellent sense of humour, with some superb drawings of ordnance, and his new Flower Class corvettes plan sets), AND getting my thrice-yearly cuddle off Tim Stoneman, another contributing SMMLlie who helped us to enthusiastically pore over John's drawings. Cheers Caroline and Dave Carter White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: AD: 1/200 Nichimo Yamato for sale I have one Nichimo Yamato (pre-owned) for $250.00 + shipping at our cost (no foreign shipment on this kit). Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume