Subject SMML17/10/98VOL335 Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:03:55 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Essex elevator saftey rail 2: turbinia 3: Painting FUJIMI Adm Graf Spee 4: Re: Matchbox Corvette 5: Re: SMML Lawyers, ex and otherwise 6: USS Holland AS-3 circa 1945 7: Copying Parts...my 2 cents as well 8: Corsair armada productions 9: Copied plastic parts 10: Well known Uk dealer 11: Re: CW New Orleans Class 12: RE: LAWYER MODELERS 13: Cruiser Models 14: Re: Lawyer-Shipmodelers 15: Lawyer Modellers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Airfix ship Kits 2: Good deal on Advance Force -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: KelDQ@aol.com Subject: Essex elevator saftey rail I am working on my 1/350 Essex class and I plan on showing the side elevator (not the ones in the middle of the deck) in the lowered position. Does anyone know if a saftey rail was raised on the deck level when the elevator was lowered? I have several reference books but can't find a good shot of this anywhere. Any help appreciated! Kelly Quirk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David.Hathaway@Smallworld.co.uk Subject: turbinia People I am looking for a set of plans for Parson's steam turbine test-bed launch Turbinia. Does anyone know of any? The Museum of Science in Newcastle has the ship/boat but they have yet to respond with information. Help me anyone? Regards David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Stanley Stephen S. Suarez" Subject: Painting FUJIMI Adm Graf Spee I just started on my 1/700 Fujimi Adm. Graf Spee and what do I see, a manuall that's printed entirely in Japanese!!! Luckily, there's SMML. :) Can anybody here tell me what colors the decks should be? I think the main deck is planked with wood and the usuall Deck tan would apply. However, it seems that the upper decks(specially around the stack and behind the catapult) are painted a different color. What color should these areas be? BTW, it seems that there are two painting schemes available, one for 1939 and one that doesn't have the green camoflage. When was the Camo scheme applied? What kind of "green" was it? Is the box art scheme close to the real thing? Thanks, Stanley Stephen S. Suarez Davao City, Philippines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Matchbox Corvette While digging through the back shelves of my personal "will build someday kit collection" I found a Matchbox kit PK-901 1/72 Flower Class Corvette, and I know I will never build it. If any list member wants it, please contact me off list at SantMin@aol.com To be fair, I've had it quite a while and I do not remember what I paid for it. The box has a few scuff marks but it is complete and never started, all parts sprues still in their plastic envelopes. It has an instruction booklet, a decal sheet, and a sheet of flags. Please keep in mind that it is a VERY BIG BOX to ship. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: William Swan Subject: Re: SMML Lawyers, ex and otherwise >> All the talk about copying and copyrights and some of the detailed responses on the thread led me to wonder, just how many of us on this list are lawyers? I am, though I quit my job and do not intend to practice anymore. Survey time: All lawyers here, please raise your hands... << Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I too WAS a lawyer. Haven’t done that stuff in more than 13 years, and I feel GOOOOOODDDDDD! William Swan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Rob & Heather Weilacher Subject: USS Holland AS-3 circa 1945 Does anyone have any info on this ship ? I believe it is a sub tender. Specifically: 1. References 2. Was it constructed on the C-3 hull ? Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Rob & Heather Weilacher Subject: Copying Parts...my 2 cents as well Dear Friends, After all the diversions about copying parts, I had to do my reseach on the subject. My source was my father, who has about 40 years experience in law with the specialty of...you guessed correct... patents/trademarks/copyrights. He is currently senior partner in a Wash. DC law firm, and here is the scoop: 1. SOME parts may be copied. This is refered to as the "Fair Use" Exception. As an example, a journalist or critic may quote in their article from the book they are reviewing without consent of the author. Just how much "Fair Use" constitutes, he did not know exactly off hand. This may be the basis of the 20% rule another SMML'er mentioned days before. 2. By Skywave purchasing his kits under agreement to sell them in Japan, the holder of the copyright (Skywave) has given an "Implied Copyright Liscence" to Corsair Armada Productions. This is a legal term which is largely self-defining. 3. IF #2 above were not true, CAP might be in danger of lawsuit for a period of about 3 years from the date of CAP's letter of intent to copy Skywave parts. This is not the case. 4. This is the law as defined in the USA only. 5. Everyone have a beer and let Mike breathe a little. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Malcolm Subject: Corsair armada productions Mike I feel what you did was a mistake but about as serious as overstaying your parking ticket. I applaud your willingness to admit what you did and now to rectify it. Malcolm KingKit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Malcolm Subject: Copied plastic parts >> It never ceases to amaze me at the logic some folks use to justify copyright infringement. If this reasoning flys, all I have to do is notify in advance that I'm going to steal your car. Never mind the fact it's your car. As long as you don't respond it's all right. << Or if I find you wallet I send you a letter written in Cornish (my native tongue) telling you I found it. I dont put a stamp on the envelope and I dont obtain a proof of posting let alone a proof of delivery. As you dont reply its ok for me to spend your money. Skywave is a Japanese company and has doubtless a huge mailbag. I am sure they get their fair share of wally letters and those written in a foreign tongue are likely only to reach file 13. Even my small business has had customers who have written in French, German and Rumanian, if there is no IRC they dont get replied to. Lets remember its not Mike advancing this arguement but someone else in support of his actions. Malcolm kingKit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Malcolm Subject: Well known Uk dealer >> Besides your good self... we DO have Ray Lawson of Plastic Pastimes.. he became pretty well known at last year's U.K. IPMS Nationals.... << You can keep him dear. Wash your mouth out with soap. I'm going to talk about that US company who do 1/350 kits now (if only I could remember their name). Seriously though yeah ok Im got competition (but not at the Nats this year) but he aint half as good looking as me and he would never get into a size 16 Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: Re: CW New Orleans Class I recently bought the Classic Warships Heavy Cruisers New Orleans and Quincy. The workmanship is very fine. The upper and lower hull halves line-up almost perfectly, a bit of sanding to remove the mold base and they fit very well. The same goes for the superstructure parts. The New Orleans kit, however is actually modeled on the Astoria and Minneapolis after their Jun-Jul 1942 Pearl Harbor refit. The New Orleans received it's first wartime refit at Mare Island in Feb-Mar 1942 and received a rather different set of 20mm gun platforms. Also the New Orleans never had the windows installed on the Navigation bridge; a single 20mm tub was installed adjacent to the conning tower at that level. The Quincy kit follows the prototype very closely, but I think I'll need to do a bit of work on the 5 inch gun shields. I also bought a second Quincy to convert to the Vincennes. This will require removal of the rangefinder platform from the front of the sky lookout level, and removing all of the 5 inch gun splinter shields, as Vincennes had the separate shields like Astoria. The only thing I have seen on the San Francisco, is the photos of the masters. These looked very good except for showing the late war style folding hanger door on an otherwise 1942 ship. All New Orleans Class cruisers had the roll-up type hanger door as built, and these were not replaced untill the 1943-44 refits of the surviving units. The Floating Drydock has an excellent collection of photos, including a large set of the Quincy in her Measure 12 Mod blotch cammo. And a set on the San Francisco taken at Mare Island in Dec. 1942, showing the battle damage from the November battle at Guadalcanal. (Great shot of Hanger door detail taken from the well deck.) Friedman's Design History of US Cruisers is another great source. The only real flaw in these kits that I find is that the lines of the lower hull are incorrect. They may have been based on a set of hull lines I saw on Floating Drydock's Quincy plans( the plans are flawless except for those hull stations) These are not based on USN design practices of the Treaty period and I have no idea of their source. They have, however been the only commercially availably set and have been used for several scratch builds I have seen. The only set of correct hull lines I have found, are from the National Archives: CA-39 USS Quincy, CA-44 USS Vincennes Midship and Type Sections C&R No. 239701 plate No. VIII These are verifiably Bureau of Construction and Repair drawings and they show the characteristic knuckle below the armor belt and v-hull aft that is found on all US cruisers from the Pennsacola class through the war-built Baltimore and Cleveland classes. The only difference between the lines of these two ships and the first five in the class is that CA-39 & 44 had an external strake of magazine armor foreward of and below the main belt from the first platform halfway to the second platform level. I am currently re-shaping the lower hull of my Astoria and I hope to use that to remaster the hulls for my other two cruisers. In spite of this, I am happy to recommend these ships to any and all. The engineering is excellent and fully up to Steve's usual high standards. (If you are building waterline, no hull problem!) Duane (New Orleans Class fan in Boise) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: LAWYER MODELERS Ok Dave, I confess. I'm... a lawyer (Aaarghhh!!). I considered weighing in on this copyright tussle, but then I thought: Naw! I'm no expert on copyright, and after the first few letters, this is going to turn into one of those pissing contests, with everybody fighting to control the moral high ground, that goes on interminably until everybody's mad at everybody else, and we're all ready to puke. Heck, I'm a divorce lawyer. I spend all day in pissing contests. I don't need to get into one on hobby time. So I've just been a sittin' on the sidelines watchin' folks throw punches back 'n forth. As for "lawyer-modelers", who gives a damn about them? What I'd rather know is how many Playboy Bunny modelers there are on the list. Now THAT would be interesting. (Or hey...maybe I'm just on the wrong website! Let's see now ...let's check out the NAKEDMODELS.com site, then the Congressional Record, then..) Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Cruiser Models I don't have the CW New Orleans, but I do have the 1/350 Indianoplis. The old saying of you get what you pay for applies. Although the CW kits are less expensive, some of the molding and details aren't as crisp as those from other companies. The photoetch sheet that accompanies the kit is extensive, but not complete. The white metal components are very crisp. The kits biggest shortcoming is the abbreviated instruction sheet. I also purchased CW's Warship Pictorial on the Indy. This book is a big help in filling in some of the details. There is a volume on the New Orleans class cruiser, although I don't think it actually profiles the New Orleans. I'm attempting for the first time to photoetch some of my own parts for this kit. This also will help fill in some of those missing details. In the end, I can definitely reccomend the CW kits, just be prepared to add some additional details. Good Luck and Happy Modeling! Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Lawyer-Shipmodelers Yes, I confess it, I am a lawyer. I practice in the area of labor & employment law, but at one time, when I was with a firm, I also worked on a number of patent, trademark and (to a far lesser degree) copyright cases. I think lawyers should make good modelers; as Don Henley once sang, "Lawyers clean up all details." I'll close on that note.... Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Lawyer Modellers >> Survey time: All lawyers here, please raise your hands... << Here I am. Anybody else out there, too? Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Malcolm Subject: Airfix ship Kits Joe Sorry Im not going to say what Airfixs plans are until they announce them publically probably next week. But I hood n't be surprised if you are pleased. The poll had no bearing whatsoever as the decisions are taken in July as to the forthcoming re releases. Furthermore a poll with 23 responses would not cut any ice with the Airfix decision makers. If you phone customer services at airfix re a kit they keep a tally and if its deleted they pass you on to us.....we sell 2-3 Hoods a week that way. That obviously has a bering on their re release programme. Daring is in stock at 15 pounds plus shipping KingKit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Good deal on Advance Force We have a number of our book "Advance Force - Pearl Harbor" that are lightly damaged (creases on the cover, a dent on the corner, that sort of thing) that we're making available to members of this newsgroup for $12, including priority-mail postage. (Outside the U.S., $15) Normal price is $22 plus postage. No credit cards, please - check, money order or (shudder!) cash. Information about this book is at: http://www.PacificHistory.com/PRODUCTSFILE/BOOKSFILE/AFPH.HTML Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume