Subject SMML18/10/98VOL336 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:06:02 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Second those craftstore paints 2: Airfix Ship Kits and Well known UK dealer 3: Re: Lawyers, Hollands and Copying 4: Re: USS HOLLAND (AS3) 5: Re: USS HOLLAND (AS-3) 6: Re: GRAF SPEE 7: Re: Pollyscale paints 8: Re: Paint removal 9: Re: Classic Warships 1/350 USN Cruiser kits 10: Re: Turbinia 11: Re: LAWYERS 12: Re: LAWYERS 13: Re: Essex elevator rails 14: ESSEX class 15: Copying modified kit parts 16: Re: Paints - CLASSIFIED INFO 17: USS NITRO 18: Re: Lawyer-Modellers 19: Re: Turbinia plans 20: Re: Graf Spee colors 21: Yamato 22: Re: Graf Spee paint 23: Alaska CB 1 Makes Port! 24: Forwarded query -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Titanic Scale Model Info Page 2: Navismagazine.com - October issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Second those craftstore paints Jeff wisely pointed out the cost effective benefits of using FolkArt, Applebarrel, and in my case, Ceramcoat ceramic acrylic paints. I've used these for years with good results. Some things to keep in mind when using these paints: 1. Their pigment is ground coarser than model paints, and this can be seen in a slightly grainier paint surface. 2. Some of the colors do not stick well to naked plastic at all. Some kind of primer is needed before the color goes on. 3. When these paints get old they create gummy blobs which can really screw up your airbrush, temporarily. Other than that, use this stuff with abandon, it is dirt cheap and a great way to experiment with mixing your own colors. JG PS: Jeff: The Kingfishers have not landed... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Airfix Ship Kits and Well known UK dealer Hi Malc, Hi all.... guess you just recently got shot of those old Airfix Hood kits hey, Malcolm Re. your competition, I heard he'll be "around".... hope he's in a better temper than the last time I saw him. Re. our competition, I wasn't aware we had any.......I'm referring to this year's Nationals of course Anyway, White Ensign Models are pleased to announce that they will be retooling their 1/700 HMS Hood photoetched brass set up to 1/600 Scale, so there you go guys... the price will be about 12.72 pounds worldwide, with all that yummy PE AA stuff, degaussing coil, davits, starfish, boat fittings and LOAAADS more than I have time to list here! Get your reservations in now so that we can start to assess numbers..... Cheers, Caroline Carter, STILL cutting up Rodney/nelson etched brass sets and sticking em in envelopes.... yawn!!!! WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Lawyers, Hollands and Copying >> Survey time: All lawyers here, please raise your hands... << >> I too WAS a lawyer. Havenít done that stuff in more than 13 years, and I feel GOOOOOODDDDDD! William Swan << I am too, general practice doing Juvenile law, family criminal, Bankruptcy and some Int Property. Int. Property, patent, copyright and trademark is a side interest, as is internet law. >> Does anyone have any info on this ship ? I believe it is a sub tender. Specifically: 1. References << There is a set of plans available, I have one burried somewhere which I got by mistake when I tried to get plans for the USS Holland Submarine. I think that Floating Drydock had them. I recall that it wasn't Taubman. Your father's summary is correct as far as it goes, however I don't think that fair use would apply to copying prts at all as you wouldn't be doing so for purposes of teaching, critical analysis etc, but rather to avoid having to buy them. There is no fair use exception which allows for personal use, except in the rather unique area of video recordings off air. >> 1. SOME parts may be copied. This is refered to as the "Fair Use" Exception. As an example, a journalist or critic may quote in their article from the book they are reviewing without consent of the author. Just how much "Fair Use" constitutes, he did not know exactly off hand. This may be the basis of the 20% rule another SMML'er mentioned days before. There is no 20% rule per se >> 2. By Skywave purchasing his kits under agreement to sell them in Japan, the holder of the copyright (Skywave) has given an "Implied Copyright Liscence" to Corsair Armada Productions. This is a legal term which is largely self-defining. << That's a good analysis >> 3. IF #2 above were not true, CAP might be in danger of lawsuit for a period of about 3 years from the date of CAP's letter of intent to copy Skywave parts. This is not the case. 4. This is the law as defined in the USA only. 5. Everyone have a beer and let Mike breathe a little. << Only point I'd take exception to; Now a Scotch is another matter entirly :) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: USS HOLLAND (AS-3) HOLLAND was indeed a sub tender, but was not built on a C-3 hull, having been built in 1919 by Puget Sound Shipyard. HOLLAND had a clipper bow and was almost yacht-like in appearance. Plans for HOLLAND are available from The Floating Drydock: http://www.usbusiness.com/drydock/ Al Ross II -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS HOLLAND (AS-3) HOLLAND and her sisters were not built on C-3 hulls. HOLLAND was built at Puget Sound Navy Yard, begun in 1921 and launched in 1926, and had a VERY distinctive profile, with clipper bow and a single thin stack. She was 513 feet long overall with a 61-foot beam. She carried eight 5-inch, four 3-inch AA, and two 6-pounder guns, and one submerged 21" torpedo tube. She had two sisters: WHITNEY and DOBBIN. Sources: Jane's Fighting Ships, 1941; Fahey's Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet, War Edition, 1944 (erroneously shows her as built in 1916). John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: GRAF SPEE Even though I built my model with the green camo as shown on the box art (and took contest awards with it), it seems that current opinion is that the camo pattern was in a darker gray, rather than green. Falk, Evart-Jan, any comments? John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Pollyscale paints Sorry to be so long in replying on this one. Not to sound like--or be--color police, but the Pollyscale marine colors are, as Jeff Herne pointed out, pretty whacky. Their Ocean Gray isn't bad, and their Haze Gray is close but too purple; the others aren't even close. As Jeff also pointed out, for those wanting accuracy our USN paint chip sets are available from Pacific Front Hobbies or directly from us here in the US, and from WEM across the pond. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Paint removal Again, sorry to be late in replying to this one. One of the model paint manufacturers makes a paint remover that is safe for plastic and quite effective. I've used it quite effectively. I'm out of it at the moment, which is why I can't come up with the name. Somehow, I've got it mentally connected with model railroad paints, so it could be Polly-S.... Check with a well stocked hobby shop that carries model railroad supplies. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: Re: Classic Warships 1/350 USN Cruiser kits Regarding some modelers' comments on the 1/350 Classic Indianapolis and New Orleans class cruisers...The Indianapolis was released some 3-4 years ago, and while at the time was a well-received kit, by today's standards it suffers from lack of completeness in small details and thorough instructions. In contrast, the New Orleans class kits are much more complete and have much better instructions. Both modelers' comments, in my opinion, were correct regarding the respective kits. The only comment I did not quite understand was "you get what you pay for" comment (on the Indy)...Steve's products have always been very competitively priced, but certainly not in the bargain-basement category. Did the modeler find one second-hand? Thanks, Bill Gruner http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: Turbinia We were at the museum in Nwecastle last month on the NRG maritime tour of Northern England and Southern Scotland. The are understaffed, but very pleasant. Give them time, plus send a followup. There is a tremendous amount of information on Turbinia in the Museum, and also on subsequent vessels. The address I have is: Director, Newcastle Discovery Blandford Square Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Tyne & Wear NE1 4JA England Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: LAWYERS Wm. Shakespeare was right on, i.e., "the first thing we do is kill all the .. . ". When I die, I wish to be buried at sea, in the deepest depth of the Marianas Trench, and I further wish that 10,000 lawyers may dance on my grave! The latter one is mine, the first belongs to the Bard. Any other Engineers on the list? How about Ham Radio Ops? (KC6BLD) Gene S. Katz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Essex elevator rails >> Does anyone know if a saftey rail was raised on the deck level when the elevator was lowered? << Yes they were. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: ESSEX class Kelly: There was a safety rail around the deck edge elevator on the ESSEX class Carriers. In the Alan Raven book ESSEX Class Carriers - A Warship Design History from the US Naval Institute, there is a picture of the BUNKER HILL at Bremerton in 1945 or 1946 that shows the safety rail up and the #2 Elevator down. Hope this helps. Sounds like you are making lots of progress on your ESSEX. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Copying modified kit parts Seems the copying parts thread is dying, so I'll pour some petrol on the fire :) What is the law on using kit parts as a basis for detailed and/or converted parts? When scratchbuilding, I'd rather start with something that has the rough shape that a cured blob og Milliput. Is there anything that says to what extent the parts must be modified to count as "non original" parts? Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: rsalmon@ionet.net (Robert R. Salmon) Subject: Re: Paints - CLASSIFIED INFO Jeff Herne wrote: >> Go to your local craft store, on the East Coast of the US, it's Micheal's and MJ Designs, sort of the Wal-Marts of arts and crafts. They carry acrylic paints under several name brands, Applebarrel Colors and Folk-Art are the two I use. They have about 300 different shades of every color imaginable. They require thinning, a little for hand brushing, about 50-50 for airbrushing. They are VERY inexpensive, between $.39 and $.79 for a 2oz. bottle depending on the brand and store. When you consider how much paint you can get from 2oz. of pigment, it's well worth the hassle of trying to find the stuff... " << I also have been using the Apple Barrel paints. For the most part they flatten beautifully and stay fresh and ready to use for a long time. Their one big flaw is that they don't bond as well to plastic surfaces like more traditional modelling paints do. I have had a couple of instances where I had tape stick to a model that had been painted with Apple Barrel paint and it pulled up a large sheet of dried paint from it. Obviously you wouldn't want to use Apple Barrel paint as a primer coat. Still, the Apple Barrel paints are so convenient and so easy to find that they can be a good asset to the modeller. Robert Salmon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: John Snyder Subject: USS NITRO Was it on SMML that someone was looking for a photo of NITRO? If so, go to Andrew Toppan's USS SALEM home page, http://uss-salem.org, and follow the links to the NARA photos and you'll find a nice shot of NITRO there. And if the query wasn't on SMML, well...sorry 'bout that. It's getting increasingly difficult for me to remember who asked what on which list. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Alberto Rada Subject: Re: Lawyer-Modellers Hi David Krakow wrote: >> . . . . .just how many of us on this list are lawyers? I am, though I quit my job and do not intend to practice anymore. . . . . << It is so nice to learn that some one found redemption SALUDOS Alberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Turbinia plans >> I am looking for a set of plans for Parson's steam turbine test-bed launch >Turbinia. Does anyone know of any? The Museum of Science in Newcastle has >the ship/boat but they have yet to respond with information. Help me << Try Taubman Plans Service. There is a plan of Turbinia listed in the M.A.P. plans range and Taubman carries this line. Taubman Plans Service International 11 College Drive Box 4G Jersey City, NJ 07305 Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Graf Spee colors >> I just started on my 1/700 Fujimi Adm. Graf Spee and what do I see, a manuall that's printed entirely in Japanese!!! Luckily, there's SMML :) Can anybody here tell me what colors the decks should be? I think the main>deck is planked with wood and the usuall Deck tan would apply. However, it seems that the upper decks (specially around the stack and behind the catapult) are painted a different color. What color should these areas be? BTW, it seems that there are two painting schemes available, one for 1939 and one that doesn't have the green camoflage. When was the Camo scheme applied? What kind of "green" was it? Is the box art scheme close to the real thing? << The wood decks would be unpainted - steel decks were black - which would weather to a very dark gray. As for the green - it is the result of an error repeated so many times that it has taken on a life of its own. The artwork in the Profile shows this, which was based on a model that is on display in (I think) the Science Museum. The model paint scheme was the result of a guess on the part of the museum staff and their model builder and was not based on any documentation. In a 1953 book about the Graf Spee (sorry I cannot give the exact title as I no longer have a copy - this book was lost in one of my moves) it was stated that the camouflage was painted in an improvised mix of gray. The scheme would be the 50/51 grays as base colors (slightly darker hull, lighter upperworks - the standard pre-war German color scheme) with a added irregular pattern of dark gray applied to the upper works (following the green pattern on your kit painting guide). The museum model provided the basis for the Profile art and this in turn has been copied over and over again in other sources, including the kit box art. Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Yamato Dear group, After at least fifteen yaers of hemming and hawing, I've finally succumbed to the urge and picked up a big Yamato, the one that Bill Gruner offered recently. I guess that now makes me a neophite Yamatoholic. If anyone else so afflicted wants to dump a load of suggested references, websites and the like on me, I'd be a happy camper. I have the Anatomy book, Model Art special, Maru Naval special and a few drawings from Model Art that were printed on the back of calendars. Does that mean I'm really a latent Yamatoholic? Thanks in advance, Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "David P. Judy III" Subject: Re: Graf Spee paint Stan, I am completing the ISW Graf Spee in 1/350. The references I used are Sigfried Breyer's Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905-1970. and Erich Groner's German Warships 1815-1945. These two books agree that the main decks were teak and the superstructure decks were a dull black tin anti-skid surface. Note: Before war broke out, the superstr. decks were a reddish brown linoleum, akin to Japanese ships. The hull was a darker shade of gray than the superstr. AS for the shade of green, your guess is as good as mine! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Alaska CB 1 Makes Port! The beautiful and stately USS Alaska CB 1 has finally arrived at its new homeport in Mt. Laurel, NJ, where it was received with surprise and joy. The CB 1 out of Samek in Prague, Czech Republic must have had a long winding trip down the Danube to the Adriatic, the Med, Atlantic, thru the Canal, up to Washington State, and finally to the Deleware Valley area where she first tasted the waters of the NY Shipbuilding Co yard on the Deleware River, Camden, NJ. She will be permanently moored in Mt. Laurel near the Rancocas River, a tributary of the Deleware, accessible by canoe, bass boat, or RIB. Our thanks to Bill Gruner at PacFrontCom. HOWEVER, never have an expensive new ship model arrive at your home (before you do) on the same day you have paid out $1900 for an auto tranny/torque converter rebuild!!! The static generated thereby, especially by a wife of the Sicilian/Neopalitan persuasion, must be experienced as it belies description. I thought Italians had an eye for style and beauty. Must be in the eye of the beholder, as we don't seem to share an appreciation for the beauty and sleekness of this model. Her loss. Bill, I don't quite know how to thank you, but trust me, one day I will think of something appropriate :) :) Gene PS I think if I let her give it to me for Natale/Hanukah I may be on safer ground. Gene S. Katz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: John Snyder Subject: Forwarded query This one came off the seaways-shipmodeling list. Can anyone help? John Snyder >> I am looking for plans or a plastic model kit of the USS Kearsarge CVS 33 c1958 as a sub hunter. Also need plans or model for the hss1 helicopters thast she carried to hunt with. All help will be appreciated. Thanks Bob Bob and Leanne Cunningham Hot Springs Village, Arkansas mailto:rcunning@ipa.net << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Andrew Baines" Subject: Titanic Scale Model Info Page Hello, I have a page dedicated to the Academy 1/350 scale Titanic model at: http://website.lineone.net/~a.baines I am looking to relaunch my page sometime for November (hopefully the first), I would apreciate any suggestions that Anyone may have with regards to improving my site, I figure that you are the people to ask as you are all acomplished model builders. Thank's Andrew. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Navismagazine.com" Subject: Navismagazine.com - October issue - The models of the IJN Preservation Association(130 photographs of 30 medium to large scale models. The most accurate IJN models in the world.) - F117A Nighthawk (stealth fighter) walk-around - 1/350 HMS Hood from the WEM kit - 1/48 P-40N from the new Eduard (profipack) kit - British type 22 frigate Battleaxe walk-around - 1/72 P-47D "bubbletop" Thunderbolt from the new Academy kit - 1/700 HMS Brilliant (type 22 frigate) from the WEM kit - FW 190 A-8 in 1/72: three kits compared - Naval history: the Falklands War(Includes a photographic section with pictures of just about any Argentine and British ship class involved in the conflict) - Aviation history: the Mach 2 V/STOL that never was PLUS THE USUAL COLUMNS: - Modeler Profile (dedicated to the great shipmodeler Jim Baumann) - Model Showcase - On the market - product reviews - Naval reconnnaissance - News from the kit industry - New Books - Letters - Bulletin Board AND THREE NEW COLUMNS!! - Photo-history (aircraft) - Photo-history (ships) - Virtual places For a very small $1.66/month contribution we bring you more articles, more pictures, more reviews (where you can see EVERY part in a kit,) more photographs than ANYONE, either in print or on the internet. http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume