Subject SMML23/10/98VOL341 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:18:56 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: HMAS Sydney 2: Landing crafts to safe the private Ryan 3: HMS Rodney web-site 4: Picture list - and a few random thoughts 5: SMML Pic-List 6: Re: SMML improvements 7: Re: Improvements 8: USN Helena 9: Viewing text files 10: Sources for books 11: Nagato or Hyuga 12: improvements / Tokyo Hobby Shops 13: Re: Format: 14: Re: SSML and AOL, graphic files 15: Re: Painting Fletcher Details 16: Re: IJN colors 17: Drawing the line 18: FLAK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: traders (brass suggestions) 2: Conway's ANATOMY OF THE SHIP Y****O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: HMAS Sydney Jeffrey Roberts wrote: >> All of this talk of HMAS Sydney prompts me to ask if there has ever been a kit of either Sydney or her sisters Perth and Hobart. I'm very interested in this class and would love to build a model of one of them... << Airfix Magazine had an article for converting the 1/600 Airfix HMS Ajax kit to the Sydney class, back in the late '60s. It was valid because the hulls were the same... also the main guns. I don't remember how much else had to be made from wood (I would have used sheet plastic). Let me know if you need a copy of that article, My Airfix magazines are fairly well organized, someplace... Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Landing crafts to safe the private Ryan Hello SMMLies, Could anybody tell me a brief history and information about the landing crafts that appear on the Omaha beach at the begining of the very great film 'Save the private Ryan'? Thank you in advance, Cataldo Torelli Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Keith Butterley Subject: HMS Rodney web-site Hi Group, http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/4433/ Happy modelling Keith a bus driver somewhere in the Vancouver Canada area Butterley sorry Greg I couldn't help mysef :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Picture list - and a few random thoughts Hi guys, I go away for a couple a of days and all hell breaks loose!! Greg, you're doing a great job...someone else said it very well, if the guy can't find his page down key, then let him go. Personally, I find some of the stuff interesting, some of the stuff boring, I wouldn't mind hearing more about people's projects. What are we all working on? Or have we put the glue away and spend most of our hobby time posting to SMML? ;-) As for the picture list, here's my idea: I currently maintain one of those "free" websites for storage purposes, it is much easier for me to upload pics to the site then let whoever know the URL, it fixes the attachment errors I often get when I send pics with e-mail. I am perfectly willing to allow SMML members to utilize this webpage. I will even dedicate a page for SMML users. It won't be fancy, but it will be functional. Simply e-mail the picture (try to keep it under 100K) to me and I will post it, I will then notify the sender it has been posted up for viewing. In an ideal environment, the poster sends the pic to me before he posts to SMML, that way the pic is there and waiting when we read the next SMML. So, I put it to the members, yea or nay? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Foeth" Subject: SMML Pic-List One vote for the seperate picture SMML volume. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: SMML improvements A Sample header numbered for convenience 1>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- 2>------------------------------------------ 3>25: 4>Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:37:52 -0400 5>To: SMML 6>From: Bradford Chaucer 7>Subject: Re:making it better/drawing line Now that you have added line 3 (a good idea) what do you think of getting rid of lines 2 and 5, which provide no useful information. Line 4 is only marginally useful, a might go as well. Line 3 could be combined with another line. If you did all this, the header would look like: 1>25:--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- 2>From: Bradford Chaucer 3>Subject: Re:making it better/drawing line Shorter, especially good for those at 2400 baud. You do have/write a program to do this all, right? But in any case, this is just nit-picking-- Keep up the good work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Improvements >> Although I did have a thought on the matter, perhaps we could start a seperate SMML picture list, where SMML readers have the OPTION to subscribe to it, and receive the pictures if they want - so if the majority likes this idea, we will select a Pic-Master by vote after candidates volunteer their services << Why not try and publish them on a website. The CultTVman does it with his pics on his SciFi modelling mailing. He used to send them as attachments, but also had troubles with the size of the postings and different graphical formats. So instead of sending them to everyone, he just placed them on his website (www.culttvman.com) on a special 'exclusives' page and every week he gives the new adress of this page. (The page is only direct accessible, not via links, so he keeps it exclusively to his subscribers.) I'm pretty sure there are certainly enough subscribers around, which have vacant webspace available that they don't use and are willing to spare. I have a right on 10 Mb webspace and I use it only for a convenient place to store my bookmarks so I can acces them anywhere. So there's plenty of space left there. There have to be made some kind of rules on the size of the pics and their format though. Another alternative is posting in alt.binaries.models.scale wich is specially for posting pictures of models. The disadvantages are that there is a lot of non-related posting (however with the word models in the name of the group, you can sometimes see some relation ;-) Also i've understood that many people can't get access to alt newsgroups by their provider. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Cadman Subject: Re: USN Helena First off as a new subscriber, I can say that this is the best resource for modeling that I have seen, keep up the good work. Partly because of this newsletter I am building my first resin kit, and am using PE parts, also a first. I would like to see more tips on construction methods as I keep gluing the parts to my fingers. : ( For those who wish to see images, I would suggest uploading your pics to alt.binaries.models.scale, then include in your post a description and name of your pics, so we can go take a look if we wish. The huge file size and long DL time makes it impolite to post pics here. Now for something on topic; does anyone know what other paint schemes that the USN Helena CL50 wore during here brief career in the Pacific? The photos I've seen seem to be the rather unexciting measure 21. Also can anyone recommend a good book with more info (reference photo's) on this particular cruiser? One last thing in passing, I'm an Engineer too, one with entirely too many hobbies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Viewing text files This what I do to download text attachment files. Just download the SMML attachment to your desktop. Clipboard or Notepad will pick it up and display it nicely when the SMML icon is double clicked. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Gordon Hogg Subject: Sources for books Fellow modelers: I've noted a few requests for information on availability of specific books. There are two websites which have been very useful to me, even if they do not themselves specialize on naval/maritime/modelling themes. The more specific your request, the narrower the search, essentially. The first is MX Bookfinder http://www.mxbf.com which is an omnibus site carrying several new and used booksearch sites (one-stop shopping, moreorless) and a variety of ways to tailor your searches. Bibliofind was once carried on the MXBF site, but I have been making separate searches through them for several months now; they handle used/rare books only. Most of the dealers are in North America, though I have bought books from European and Australian dealers, as well. Prices vary widely (sometimes wildly), so comparison shopping by scrolling is a must. Happy hunting! Gordon E. Hogg University of Kentucky Libraries Lexington, KY USA P.S. While I have your attention, is anyone willing to part with a few annual installments of the Conway/Naval Institute WARSHIP? In particular, I am trying to find VI (ed. John Roberts), XI (ed. Andrew Lambert), XII (ed. Ian Grant), as well as the volumes for 1992 and 1993 (both ed. Robert Gardiner). Many thanks. Please contact me offlist at with details. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Michael Connelley Subject: Nagato or Hyuga Hello: A question for those of you who are into IJN battleships: I'd like to get a nice kit of an IJN battleship, preferably the Nagato as I have both Tamiya Yamato kits and I really like how the Nagato looks. However, the only 1/700 Nagato kit that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (read: PitRoad) is made by Aoshima and is older than I am and I've heard that it's severely lacking. On the other hand I like the Hyuga (sistership of the Ise, but the Hyuga kit is as she was before the little flight decks were fitted) but not as much as the Nagato, but the Hyuga kit is made by Hasegawa so I expect that kit will be a little better than the Aoshima kit. The prices for the kits are about the same. As if that were hard enough, for a few bucks more I can get the Nichimo 1/500 Nagato. Even if it's an old kit and not great, it's considerably bigger (which is always nice) and thus easier to add my own details where necessary. The only thing is that I have no idea how the Nichimo kits are. Are they good, so-so, or a waste of plastic? Are their kits generally accurate? If the kit is decent, then I don't mind the extra few bucks to get a bigger ship that'll be easier to work on. As a point of reference, right now I'm working on the old Revell Arizona that everyone has and I find that it's not too bad...it's a good starting point. If the Nichimo Nagato kit is about as good as the Revell Arizona, then it's good enough for me. If it's considerably better, then gravy. I'd just like to know what the opinions are out there in SMML land on these kits. Also, where can I get some scale anchor chain for my Arizona kit? I'm looking to replace the kit chain that's molded into the deck. Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Donna Ogilvie Subject: improvements / Tokyo Hobby Shops Greg the list looks great as it is the numbers on each entry are a big help. As long as it doesn't get excessive off subject comments (lawyers ect.)are not a problem. Does anyone know where a good hobby shop in Tokyo is. My wife is on her way to there for a week.She's usually willing to brining back one or two kits ,usually aircraft because so far she hasn't found a place with a good selection of ships. Thanks Greg Ogilvie Aliso Viejo, Ca. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: ModelerAl@aol.com Subject: Re: Format: Beynart@aol.com wrote: >> It would help me a great deal if you would quit sending messages as text attachments. Once downloaded they disappear into the nether regions of my PC, never to be seen again. Actually, the text attachments go AWOL... << Greg doesn't send them as text attachments. It's AOL's email program that automatically converts messages over a certain length into attachments; I presume since this is happening in your case that you subscribe to the digest version of the list, as do I. Check the bottom of your email window when you get an attached text (or any other) file - you'll see a "download" button. Click on it & the file will be downloaded to your AOL "Download" folder (you might already have a bunch of them there!). You'll then have to use Windows Explorer to navigate to that folder. You can change the default by going to "Preferences", clicking on "Download", and typing in the destination folder of your choice. I use "C:\WINDOWS\DESKTOP" as to me that's the easiest place to keep track of things, especially with WIN98's "Show Desktop" button on the taskbar. HTH, Al http://users.aol.com/modeleral/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML and AOL, graphic files >> It would help me a great deal if you would quit sending messages as text attachments. Once downloaded they disappear into the nether regions of my PC, never to be seen again. Actually, the text attachments go AWOL; I have a great collection of your headers. Otherwise, I think your site is great! << AOL will automatically convert any long email into a text file which can be downloaded and read with an offline reader, such as Microsoft Word, or WordPad. When you click on "Download Now", observe where the file is being downloaded to. The default location is C:\AOL\Download Assuming your aol is on your "C" drive. Your Directory might be AOL30 or some other variation. Once you have found the file, you can move to any directory you wish, or open it. Hope this helps. On graphic file attachments, why not offer them as a seperate mailing? Call it SMMLGraphic. That way, folks who wish to download the pictures can, and those that are using slower connections have the option of not. Just a thought. Of course, you can always post your pictures to one of the binary newsgroups or a web page, and include the appropriate pointer in your post. Either way would be fine with me. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Martime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Painting Fletcher Details Having checked the photos in a number of my references, it appears that the life rings on a Measure 21 ship were painted out in Navy Blue. The fire hoses might--emphasis on might--have been stained Navy Blue, but I'm betting they were unpainted/unstained canvas, a warm light gray in color. Jeff Herne, whaddaya think? John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: IJN colors Well, we're working on coming up with the IJN grays, but until we do.... As for the linoleum decks, I've used Testors "Terra Cotta" with good effect. Give it a wash of dark gray or black to darken it a bit. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: rmorin1@banet.net Subject: Drawing the line In all of this discussion thus far, I think Erwin Van Deynze has made the most important point of all; it's really up to us. As I see it, it's a question both of subject matter and tone. With regard to subject matter, I think the point has been well made that this is a discussion group in which the members have many different interests. A person not interested in a particular subject can easily scroll past it and really shouldn't mind doind so. However, if we get to the point in a long-running thread where the number of participants has dwindled to, say, 2 or 3, we may want to consider finishing up (or taking it off-list) in consideration of all the others who are no longer interested. With regard to tone, I think that is the area where it really is up to each of us. I jumped into the parts copying issue with a defense of Mike Czibovic in large part because of my discomfort with the way in which the discussion was deteriorating into personal attacks on him. And then we segued into all the slams against lawyers. When you spend 10 or 12 hours a day helping families pick up the pieces after a loved one has died or keeping an overaggressive tax auditor off the backs of a mom-and-pop business or helping an elderly retired couple get their security deposit back from a sleazy landlord, you really don't need to see (for the millionth time) the same old sophmoric slurs against your profession, and from your ship modelling group no less! I know that the people who posted such comments meant them to be humorous. If the comments had been made in personal conversation, this would have been obvious because we could hear the speaker's tone of voice and read his or her body language. But written words carry with them no such overtones and must be taken as they are plainly written. Therefore, a second or two of reflection before we hit the send button may help us avoid unintended barbs and keep the tone of the list friendly and mutually respectful. Jim Chambers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ 18) From: "Martin Short" Subject: FLAK Hi Greg, and other fellow SMMLies, As a new SMMLie, (only a couple of months at best), I have to echo other participants comments regarding Mr McCormick's decision to unsubscribe...unfortunate (to quote a famous Vulcan.) Personally, I find the format/layout fine, and the content most useful. As a modeller of all things Battleship in WWII and 1/700 mostly, in particular RN (and no apologies, it's my bag), it is an incredibly useful aid. I can only cite the comments/observations on the Graf Spee, as I would have painted mine with the Green cameoflage otherwise. The HMAS Sydney discussions have been interesting and informative. As for the occupational posts, it makes this list a little more "friendly" given that most people will never meet, and if some people think it is unnecessary BS, so be it. We have lawyers by the boat load, a fire chief, a physist or two, and I believe I saw a Chemist(not a Pharmacist), which is nice to know as I'm one too, used to be in paints, now adhesives.(we can be useful sometimes if you're 'stuck' with a problem!). It just goes to demonstrate the wide diversity of people who are interested in such matters. In NZ we are very much a minority modelling species, coming a distant fifth after Wingies, tankies, wheelies, and Sci fi, in that order. All the ship model stock available off the shelf is mainstream plastic, so it is overseas for anything else. This list helps to enlighten us antipodeans as to what else (and who else) is available out there. I was going to ask about IJN colours as I was about to commence one of the new Hasegawa 1/700 Kongo's, but I have just seen someone post a similar query, so I'll sit back and read with interest first. Thanks in advance. Keep up the great work, regards, Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom & Carolyn Harrison Subject: Re: traders (brass suggestions) TO SMML MODELERS Looking for suggestions on etched brass ship sets, either by kit or subject, any scale. Please E-mail us directly I know there will be a lot of suggestions so don't take up space on the SMML site. If we use your suggestion I'll send you the brass set free when it goes into production. Our latest set for the Glenco Oregon will be available by the end of the month. A 6" x 12" sheet with over 100 individual parts, some half etched, several pages of instructions showing no only how to use the brass but also improvements to the basic kit. As an FYI we now have over 60 brass, (ship related) sets available in 7 different scales. Tom Tom's Modelworks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Conway's ANATOMY OF THE SHIP Y****O Hi guys, Re recent conversations, this book is still available from us at 25.00 (around $42.00) plus shipping at cost.. why get secondhand when you can still get new?? Telford here we come!! BTW, we have Ian Ruscoe builds of the WEM 1/.350 Sheffield and 1/700 Sussex... come and check us out... drooling allowed.. we have a trough laid on for the purpose...! Cheers Caroline and Dave White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume