Subject: SMML24/10/98VOL342 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:29:58 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Threads on threads, improvements and so on. 2: Model of HMAS Sydney 3: Re: Nagato or Hyuga 4: Painting Fletcher Details 5: RE: List Necessity and Cover Story 6: Re: Nagato or Hyuga 7: Internet Booksellers 8: Another Who's Who at SMML? 9: the list 10: aol downloads 11: Current projects 12: Graf Spee details 13: Detail & scale volume 14: Landing crafts to safe the private Ryan 15: USS Tarawa/Cruiser Tre Kronor 16: New Books Out 17: Picture list - and a few random thoughts 18: HMAS SYDNEY (AGAIN) 19: Lindberg LSD 20: Hobby shop in Tokyo 21: Black and silver warships 22: Re ; Nichimo Nagato -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WTB Ace 7 channel Receiver -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: Threads on threads, improvements and so on. Greg: first of all, as you know, fell free to manage this post FREELY (after all, you must suffer all of us every day) Now, the hot stuff. How can you ...work with your daughters singing next to you? (yes, a little off topic, but...) I'll try again If you knew the "fraternal hate we the ECONOMISTS and those lawyers we have each other here in Spain, you understood better the heroic effort I've made the last days not to blow up my PC :) Seriously ( but not much), as many other have pointed out, there are some magic things like "scroll down", "Find", "skip", and so on and, of course, the possibility to export to some word processor and "modelling" SMML to a personal format (I sometimes make that, specially if the volume is veeery long). Me for instance, I read the earlier posts about copyright, as I like to know new things but after two or three days I skip it. And I'm alive! Moreover, as it has been pointed out, I think we subscribe SMML because it's like a Club, and as every of us know, the ship modellers are a strange minority nest to the universe of armour and aircraft modellers (And there was a time I thought that happened only in Spain. That means, I suppose, we're avid to know a little more of each other. After all not many people can say he or she belongs to a global club! That is: well done, Greg. If each of us is unable of a little of self restraint (on writing as on reading) it's better to go out, not only here, but in the World as a whole. Or if we aren't polite enough there's nothing an censor listmaster can do, except to cover the corpse. And, BTW, as many of us know, those threads are trifles next the atomic flame wars which periodically erupts in rec.models.scale and other newsgroups. Finally, two notes about me: First, after all that I think I must present myself professionally. I'm an economist, and an Armed Forces Officer (sorry, but we have Corps, like Cuerpo Jurídico - our JAG or Legal Corp-and mine Cuerpo de Intervención - we are like comptrollers or auditors- which aren't assigned to the Services but to the Ministry directly). Last, if only you were able to see what aspect this post had before I passed the spelling corrector, you threw me out of the group, sure (I'm an self made English speaker and typist). Thanks to all for this marvellous List, and over all to you, Greg. Hasta la vista. Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Whitney, Floyd - MAJ" Subject: Model of HMAS Sydney Someone aksed about this topic yesterday. I saw in a flyer from B Resina models that they plan to issue a 1/700-scale model of the Sydney during 1998/1999. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Nagato or Hyuga About 20 years ago I had a really nice model of the Nagato by the Japanese company Otaki. 1/400, late-war with a zillion AA guns. I liked it better than the Heller kits of the same era. I haven't seen one in years, but you might try to find it. I got rid of all my 1/400 to specialize in 1/700. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Painting Fletcher Details John, As far as my references can tell, I've perused about 150 or pictures last night night, the hoses were a buff color on Ms.21 ships. The nozzles for the firehoses remained polished brass. I've also noted several other fittings which were left in their native canvas color: Covers for searchlights, Mk 51 Fire control directors, and weather bags on the Mk 37 Fire Control Directors. I have several pics of the USS Barton on MS 21 (Sumner), and her life rafts are also canvas colored. Pages 30 & 31 of my book clearly show the firehoses in canvas buff. Here's a twist, however...the life rings are painted in 5-N in the same pics. A pic of the John Bole (Sumner) in MS 22 shows the rings in 5-H. One can safely surmise that the rings were painted to match the ship. Here's a guess as to why (and only a guess): The life rings were made of pressed cork, and were basically solid and inflexible. Therefore, paint is a viable option to prevent weather checking, etc. Fire hoses were heavy canvas, much like fire hoses used today. Applying paint would reduce flexibility, and promote cracking, etc. Paint, especially the oil based paints of the era, tends to burn. Not a good thing to be coating your fire hoses with! But like I said, it's an educated guess... Back to you John... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: RE: List Necessity and Cover Story Greg You are doing a swell job, fair dinkum (I think). The list is great and I do use the scroll bar to bypass that in which I have no interest. I have learned a bit from the list and am always amazed at the depth and scope of some of the posts. Never thought I could come out of the closet with my shipmodeling sickness. (My name is Gene and I model plastic ships. I have been addicted to this nefarious calling for over 40 years...) . However, I would like to share something with the list members. My wife exploded like HMS Barham when my new Alaska kit arrived. She'll get over it and life goes on. But the Hitchcockian twist is that I gave her a catalog of amateur radio gear (a second hobby) with an $850 radio indicated for my birthday present. Then I said, after she picked herself up from the floor, funny how this sort of puts an $85 model in the right perspective; only 1/10 of the cost of the radio. Guess I could go back on the air though. Heavy silence followed. This morning she asked if I planned on spending the whole weekend in my hobby room, or would I take a break and go out with her!! You gotta do what you gotta do!! BTW, most interesting posts lately. I also will confess, I am a Flowerholic, IJNaholic, Regia Marinaoholic, Marine Militareoholic, Royal Navaholic, and Alaska/Guamaholic, so I am beyond redemption. Keep 'em sailing.What ever you do Greg, you are the MAN. Gene S. Katz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: Nagato or Hyuga The 1/700 Nagato kit is old and somewhat lacking in detail, but with most of the little detail parts (AA, searchlights, etc) replaced with either Skywave, Leviathan upgrade, or WEM photoetch parts the kit will be considerably better. The hull and superstructure is generally accurate. A couple of issues: 1) The raised lines to simulate deck planks on the kit only indicate that the bow and stern areas were covered with wood. This is incorrect. The whole deck was covered with wood. 2) The hexagonal support legs on the pagoda are missing entirely. See Jim Gordon's Mutsu article on Warship on re-creating these. Further detail and photoetch can be added to your taste as usual to enhance the kit. For the kits price (I got mine for $20), it's worth it if you don't want to spend an arm and a leg on the PitRoad resin kit. Cheap kits can be surprinsingly easy to turn into really nice looking models. I don't have the Hyuga, but have built the Ise. The kit is a bit better (Hasegawa v. Aoshima), but like the former, can always benefit from the upgraded detail parts. The hull and superstructure looks fine. There are no support legs for the pagoda here either, but I can't tell from photos of the ship how visible they were anyways. You might be able to get away without them. If you want the depict the Hyuga after her conversion (the kits come as Hyuga before and Ise after conversion), I think buying the Ise kit and building as the Hyuga would work. Any differences between the ships should be minor enough not to require too much effort to re-create. I'm not sure if the kits are different to begin with (besides the flight deck). You could also buy both kits, and use the flight deck parts on the Hyuga kit. They fit right over the original hull. Sorry, but I can't comment on the other kits you were thinking of. As for anchor chains, I bought some necklaces for $6 - $10 in a cheap, glitzy girls' accessories store which had small enough links to be used on 1/700 kits. Worked fine. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Internet Booksellers Just FYI I have had alot of success finding books I've been looking for (in some cases for YEARS!) through the following two sites: http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/bookinfo.html and http://www.abebooks.com - They are both databases of multiple booksellers with search engines and search services. Prices generally are fairly reasonable and the service has been quite good in dealing with over a dozen different booksellers. Jeffrey Roberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Another Who's Who at SMML? Greg- Seeing all the people divulging personal info about themselves, should there be another "Who's Who at SMML" like there the one back in June? That way, everyone can have a chance to introduce themselves, their modelling interests, what they are currently working on and yes, even their occupation to the group. :) Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: the list Greg, Don't fret! you are doing a fine job !!!!!!! Keep it up. I get tired of some of the strings after a while but I just skip over those areas, I'm sure someone is interested or they wouldn't be there. For instance, I don't think that the parts copying string should have been about "what's legal", it should have been about "what's right". I can tell you that I know of several really nice products that the modelers would have loved but the decision was made not to produce them because "Why spend the time, effort, and money when they will get copied right away anyway". On the occupation list I am a retired Computer Systems Specialist and a full time Professional Model Maker. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: aol downloads Those downloads did not go into oblivion, they are still on your hard drive. Assuming you followed the prompts in choosing "download" from an aol message, here's how to find them (and then delete them so they don't eat up all your disk space). * double click "my computer", * double click w95usiu (c) or whatever your hard drive is * double click aol30a or whatever version of aol you are using * double click on the folder "download". There you will see icons representing all the files you downloaded. You should only have to double click each icon to read it. Then close it and right-click on the icon and choose delete. Lastly, right-click on your trachcan icon and choose "empty the trashcan". If you have been downloading all these files and not reading them you have an afternoon of shipmodel list reading to do !!!!!! ENJOY !! cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: OstromPL@crbesmtp.dt.navy.mil Subject: Current projects Hello All, This is my first posting (since I just subscribed yesterday) so please forgive me if the format isn't correct. :-) This is actually a response to SMML23/10/98 VOL341 posting #4 from Jeff Herne about current projects. I am currently getting together everything that I think I need for my first "in- water" diorama. I bought a 1/700 U.S.S. Tarawa (LHA-1) model. To add some cool effects, I ordered the photoetched FLAGSHIP Tarawa/Saipan Super Update Set and a couple kits of the SHANGHAI/DRAGON 1/700 U.S. Marine Amphibious Force. I am also considering picking up a PE set of Naval Figures. I know GOLD MEDAL MODELS makes one and I think FLAGSHIP makes one too. I'm kinda torn because I don't know how realistic the figures will looking being so small and flat. Anyone have any comments on any PE Naval figure sets? As for the water, I've read a few article on "modeling realistic water" (including the one on the WARSHIP website) and I decided to do some experimenting with acrylic gel. I understand that I need to do a fair bit of experimenting but if that means that I have to build another diorama than so be it (I love to build models!). My objective of the diorama is to have the Tarawa off-loading the Marine amphibious assault force via the welldeck while the Airwing is conducting air-ops. I have some ideas about making some of the helos look like they are spinning up while other aircraft are being loaded with infantry (hence the reason for the PE figure set, I figured I could get away with using some of the figures as Marines being loaded into an CH-46). Well, I had better go before this turns into a book. If you have any suggestions/information for me and my endeavor, please fire away! Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Bill Cunningham Subject: Graf Spee details Dear shipbuilders: I recently bought the Heller 1/400 scale Graf Spee kit along the the Gold Medal photo etch set and a book: Monografie Morskie 8 Admiral Graf Spee. The Heller kit is fairly nice with a good looking hull, nice turrets & superstructure. However, the fine plans in the book reveal many inaccuracies. The funnel is the wrong shape, some of the upper decks are shaped wrong, and many features are absent. These problems are mostly minor and can be corrected with some scratch building. I have a few questions that the book (unfortunately printed in Polish) cannot answer, And I hope some of you can. First, one of the plan cross sections identified as “przekroj przez wrege 127” is a section through the superstructure that shows a large triangular open truss construction extending out from both sides of the deck house and apparently supporting an upper deck. I cannot find this structure anywhere on the Graf Spee. The plan also shows in the ship’s rigging three triangle shapes that are suspended along a line that runs between a yard arm down to the searchlight deck atop the funnel. Those triangles on the right side point up, those on the left point down. What are these and what do they do? There are numerous square windows seen on the superstructure. Were these glazed with glass or were they open? The port holes along the deck, should these be drilled open or are they supposed to look like deeply set closed holes? Lastly, the barrels of the main batteries are all capped in every picture in the book. Were these usually capped when the ship was underway except when preparing to fire? Thanks for your help, Bill Cunningham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Mark Seitz Subject: Detail & scale volume Does anyone out there know where I might get my hands on the detail & scale volume covering Enterprise CVN-65? All help appreciated. Mark Seitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Tim Perry Subject: Subject: Landing crafts to safe the private Ryan Wow, someone else into Amphibious vessels! Cataldo, get hold of a copy of 'D-Day Ships' by Yves Buffetaut, which gives an excellent description of most of the vessels used for the June 6th landings, as well as some historic background going back to the Gallipoli landings in WWI. This book goes on to cover all the ships, from MTBs up to BBs has some very good photos as well as a few drawings and plans. It does concentrate on the US and British landing vessels mostly, however. My own interest is in the RN types, but I think the vessels the soldiers were landed in are LCVP types. Later on the scenes over the whole beach show several LST(2)s, but these were Computer Generated! Seeing IS believing! I have to say I was so over-awed by the landing sequences of the film, I didn't take in too much about the niceties of ship recognition. Is this an excuse to see the film again? My own copy of the book is at work so I will have to wait 'til tomorrow to check the details, but I will post back then. There have been several histories of US amphibious operations, but I trust some of our American collegues can point you in the right direction for these! I have copies of drawings for some of these vessels,I will dig them out and get some source details for you. Best wishes, Tim Perry Bristol, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Tomcat" Subject: USS Tarawa/Cruiser Tre Kronor Hi everyone First of all I might add my opinion to the latest turbulence on this list. Like most people on this list I would prefer if the images was left outside the ordinary list as it would probably soon make the list too 'heavy' and annoying to download, at least for me using an ordinary modem connection. I also supports the general idea that the there is a Pagedown key on your keyboard - why not try using it sometimes? Second, I will shortly receive a 1/700 DML Tarawa in my mail. I've seen a picture of the ship partially 'sinking' as the well obviously was flooded in order to enable the smaller LCU to exit the well. I was thinking of creating somekind of landing diorama and was wondering if someone could please tell me a little bit more about how these ships are operated during landings. So what do I have for projects going as of know? Too many I think sometimes, but still. I will shortly begin on my USS Tarawa diorama. In the meanwhile I'm still working on my USS Arizona and also has some touching up to do on my Sovremenny DDG. Waiting for shipment from Hobbylink are a a large numbers of WWII vessels, mostly US.(My wife will probably kill me when she finds out=)) In addition to the above I'm also invloved in the construction of a number submarine moulds in 1/72 and 1/96. Well that's about is for now, think I'll have my hands full for quite some time=) Finally a message to Roberto Paredes regarding Swedish cruiser Tre Kronor. I was in contact with the Naval Historical Museum today, as I was wondering where my plans had gone (I talked to a lady there about three weeks ago and she promised she will send it right away). She said that they hadn't found the microfilms containing the original drawings but that she will get back to me on Monday next week. So please have some patience, they will probably arrive to me within some weeks. With regards Fredrik Tholander, currently studying to become a engineer/CAD-wiz. BTW Seems that my postings always appears to be in a completely different format when they appears in SMML than they do in my mail program(Outlook Express). Anyone got a clue? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: New Books Out A couple of new books I picked up this week: "U-Boat War" by Timothy J. Kutta Squadron/Signal Publications #6078 ISBN 0-89747-395-7 US$ 9.95 This new naval title from Squadron has 64 pages of good quality photographs, including some from WW1 and pre-WW2, a well-written text, 12 color profiles of different types of boat by Don Greer, and a page of color insignia as worn either by individual boats or flotillas. Overall it appears to be a good value for the price. "Day of Destiny: The Photographs of D-Day" by L. Douglas Keeney and William S. Butler Quill Books/William Morrow Co. NY ISBN 0688-16882-5 US$ 15.00 / CAN$ 20.50 128 pages of photographs and captions, some that will be very familiar to those well-read on the subject, but also many which have probably not been published before. Very little text except for some quotes by some of the American, British, Canadian and French participants. Well done. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Picture list - and a few random thoughts >> Simply e-mail the picture (try to keep it under 100K) to me and I will post it, I will then notify the sender it has been posted up for viewing. In an ideal environment, the poster sends the pic to me before he posts to SMML, that way the pic is there and waiting when we read the next SMML. So, I put it to the members, yea or nay? << Sounds good to me. I say yea. Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: HMAS SYDNEY (AGAIN) Hi mateys! My first attempt at droll wit with all you guys. Have enjoyed all the witty banter (sorry for the colonialism I'm a pom/limey). As to the debate on HMAS Sydney and her loss I would like to add my twopence worth! The book on HMAS Sydney is called HMAS Sydney Fact, Fantasy and Fraud by Barbara Winter publ. Boolarong Publ. It is the most objective publication on the loss of Sydney leaving the other 'Fantasy' books on the subject for dead! It is thoroughly researched and very authoritative and a jolly good read to boot!, still can't believe how the old rumour of Jap subs etc still abound! why not UFOs? little green men and hey what about a time warp took the Sydney! Also a body was found with the carley float, although could not be identified! Other helpful ref.. Airfix mag issue May 77 has what looks to be a good article on building RAN Cruiser conv. Also RAN Profile no.1 Major Warships and 50th Ann. HMAS Sydney called "No Survivors" Publ W Aus Newspapers Ltd (lots of good pics). I believe I have somewhere a mag article on bldg the Perth. The AWM had on display a large model of the Sydney of which I took photos for modelling ref. Well folks thats my bit for now hope I stir the pot some more! Sly Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ralph E. Batykefer, Jr." Subject: Lindberg LSD Can anyone confirm the 1968' Lindberg Landing Ship Dock model as a Thomaston Class vessel? How accurate is the kit? What scale is the model? Thanks, Ralph Batykefer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ 20) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Hobby shop in Tokyo >> Does anyone know where a good hobby shop in Tokyo is. (...) << Greg, there is a hobby shop in Akihabara (the so called "electronic district" of Tokyo) called "Leonardo" that specializes in ships. In fact the owner, Mr.Yamamoto (no relationship that I know of...) is a dedicated shipmodeler and the shop is crammed with his very nice builtups (mostly 1/700 and mostly IJN.) Other places to check are the Pit-Road shop and the Fuji-Art shop (they only sell Hozon-kai kits and books but that's the absolute top as far as the IJN is concerned. Check the October issue of Navismagazine.com that includes an article on that association.) I don't have the addresses with me at the moment, write me (editor@navismagazine.com) before your wifes leaves and I'll dig them up. Paolo Pizzi http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Black and silver warships In the new book, South Pacific Destroyer, the author, Russell Crenshaw describes the color of the US destroyer Maury in the fall of 1941. Crenshaw was the Exec officer of the ship. "Finally, the exterior of the ship was painted dull black, a surprising choice because it only caused the ship's silhouette to be more easily seen against the horizon at night. The hideous fireproof paint soon turned chalky, soiling everything that brushed against it." How do you paint chip experts explain this? Then, from Requiem for Battleship Yamato, the author, Yoshida Mitsuru, talks about Yamato in harbor and refers to her color "...hull painted a uniform silver-white". Later, he remarks " The weather deck, painted jet-black, but now thouroughly chewed up, has changed color." A silver white battleship with black decks? Error in translation? Or are many things we hold as gospel incorrect? It appears that the way I painted my ship models as a boy were not so far off the mark after all ;-) JG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re ; Nichimo Nagato Mike, I don't have the Nichimo Nagato, I have the Mutsu. Considering the age of the kit I would hazard a guess that it's the same kit in a different box. I am by no means an authority on IJN Battleships, but I always thought it to be quite well done and nicely detailed The pagoda decks are separate allowing corrections, deletion addition to various bridges, the only problem if you want a full hull model is it's motorised, so a) The underwater lines around the stern look to be wrong and b). there's the switch poking through the deck, but from memory it;s not too big and easy to fill. c). There are quite a lot of sink marks. Should make a nice model though, i'll get around to mine one of these days At the Start of Tora Tora Tira, there's a ceremony on board the Nagato they built for the film , where Yamamoto takes command of the Combined Fleet. Did this Ceremony actually take place, it would make a great diorama, though i'm not crazy at the thought of doing most of Nagato's crewin etched brass regards Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: WTB Ace 7 channel Receiver Hi Guys. If any of you happen to see an Ace 7 channel receiver for sale in a hobby shop, I'd appreciate a quick note. Ace is not in production right now, but I would like a spare receiver for a new boat. Ron in Victoria BC Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume