Subject SMML27/10/98VOL345 Date Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:57:15 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: HMAS SYDNEY 2: GHQ Models - Helicopter 3: Detail and Scale Enterprise Book 4: Re: British Gun Muzzles and Colors 5: Threads on threads, improvements and so on 6: He60 and Newcastle info 7: Re: Teak decks 8: Fletcher Winches 9: Re: 1/72 Flo*** and 1/600 Mauretania 10: Re: More on water 11: US Coast Guard 44 MLB 12: Leviathan 13: Re: USS HELENA 14: Re: Black and Silver Warships 15: USS BAINBRIDGE (DLGN-25) 16: Re: AIRFIX re-releases -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: books for sale. 2: Warship Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Robert J. Mitchell" Subject: Re: HMAS SYDNEY Hi Everyone, I actually did some research on the Sydney a few years ago, and I made contact with a friends Son who was Diving for Fremantle Maritime Museum.. A Proffessor McKenzie has had at least two expeditions to try and find her and solve the mystery. I believe some of Bob Ballards team came over to help. the comment at the time I think was, 'when they looked for Titanic, they knew approximately which haystack the perverbial needle was in. Looking for Sydney, they don't even know where the field is ", but I believe there's going to be at least one expedition each summer, so I guess we may eventually find out one day. Regards Bob Mitchell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: GHQ Models - Helicopter Javier asked: >> Someone knows about Hughes 500 helicopter in 1/288 scale? << GHQ makes one in 1/285 that should work perfectly. Look at - http://www.ghqmodels.com/natoair.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: RCM612@prodigy.net Subject: Detail and Scale Enterprise Book The catalog I received the other day from The Floating Drydock lists the Enterprise book for $9.95. The photo in the catalog is a bit blurry, but I think its the same book. They also list the Detail and Scale books for the Lexington, John F. Kennedy, and the America for similar prices. Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Steve Sobieralski" Subject: Re: British Gun Muzzles and Colors The discussion about tampions reminded me of something I have been curious about for a long time. Many photos of British battleships taken in the '30's show the barrels of the guns to have an an area of shiny metal at the muzzles. At the 15" guns it seems to start 12-15" back from the muzzle and wraps around the front of the barrel to the bore of the gun. I assume this is some sort of peacetime "dress up" as it is not evident in wartime photos, but what exactly is it and what color should it be? The two possibilities that come to my mind are either some sort of metal cap which is slippped over the end of the barrel - which would probably be brass - or that the end of the gun barrel was left unpainted and the metal polished to a high sheen - a shiny steel color. Also, plans of British ships drawn by Norman Ough usually show the gun barrels colored in solid behind this muzzle strip - were British gun barrels ever painted black before the war or was this just an element of his drafting style? Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Stefan Smets Subject: Threads on threads, improvements and so on >> Seriously ( but not much), as many other have pointed out, there are some magic things like "scroll down", "Find", "skip", and so on and, of course, the possibility to export to some word processor and "modelling" SMML to a personal format ( I sometimes make that, specially if the volume is veeery long). Me for instance, I read the earlier posts about copyright, as I like to know new things but after two or three days I skip it. And I'm alive! << I agree, especially since I'm trying to catch up right now. Nevertheless, and just as a suggestion to Greg: I suppose you don't make the Table of Content on top of SMML by hand ? If not, why not make each entry in the TOC a link to the head of the message in the page itself ? It would be much easier to go to the message that one finds interesting and skip the others. BTW, as I said, I'm catching up, so maybe somebody already suggested this ... Mind you, I have no idea _how_ exactly you make this TOC, but I've done this in the past (with a small program written in Clipper), and it's not that difficult. If it's of any use, I'm willing to send you the source code, although I imagine you know lots more than me about all this. Anyway, I like SMML, and I very much appreciate the work you're doing on it. CU, Stefan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: He60 and Newcastle info Hi gang, Quick announcement: Katelyn Nicole Herne was launched at 10:09 Friday evening. She displaced 8lbs., 7oz., 20" in length, with a full complement of toes and fingers. Both momma and baby are well, and I'm preparing for sea (diaper)trials...Now on to business. Dan Jones is correct, pre-war DKM aircraft carried an overall RLM 02 color. RLM converts to FS# 34226. Wartime aircraft carried a splinter patter of RLM 72 and 73 on the upper surfaces, with RLM 65 lower. The FS# for RLM 72 is 37506. RLM 73 equates to FS# 34092. RLM 65 equates to FS# 35414. The pics of the Newcastle are as dated on WARSHIP. I scanned those pictures from her refit report at the US National Archives. Her file can be found in the RG-19-SB File, Box 8 Folder A. The photos were taken approximately 2 hours before she left, according to the report. As for the BB in background, it has to be Iowa, as Rick pointed out yesterday. Hope this helps answer any questions. Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: Teak decks Try scrapping a new deck from Evergreen No.2025 0.64mm V-groove plate. Paint buff, oil Umber, dry-brush lightly sand. Looks great. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Foeth" Subject: Fletcher Winches How many winches does the Fletcher DD have? I found one on the portside of the centre superstructure, but apparently, some Fletchers also had one between the centre and rear superstructure, later replaced by/with a 5" practise loader. A friend of mine spend a fine hour on scrapping the first, and I'd love to tell him to do one more (I hope he does). It seems a bit strange that the Tamiya needs the winch between the rear and centre sprstrctr as there are no chocks (revised) and pinions visible in that area. Also, the poot side winch lacks the pinions too (whatever their name is, the things that guide the mooringcables to the chocks, so that the winch is not loaded under an angle) Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/72 Flo*** and 1/600 Mauretania I recently went by a local hobby shop, and it had a 1/72 Matchbox Flo*** for $185.00 (still in the shrink wrap, I think). I have no idea how good or bad a price that is, but it you're interested, I'll put you in touch. The same shop also had a 1/600 Airfix Mauretania, which I was thinking about getting. Any opinions on this kit? And is there any brass for it? Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: More on water >> Mr. White swears by the acrylic gel method, but personally, I've tried it but found it too thin for water with "character", unless you lay on many coats over time. Personally, I like quick results, that is, modeled water that is completed within about 24 hours. Once again, I will champion the cause of Celluclay, the ground paper product that applies like oatmeal. You can lay this on thick, and really sculpt it, much like clay. All sorts of waves become easily rendered. And when dry and painted, the texture resembles scale chop as seen from above. One bag of this stuff will last years for 1/700 scale ships. << I have tried Celluclay in the past and had real problems with the shrinkage. Since it's thinned with water, all this water has to evaporate. Which causes gaps and the Celluclay to draw up at the edges. This problem is multiplied depending on the thickness of the Celluclay. To do it properly, you would have to apply it in thin layers and allow each layer to completely dry. This could take days depending on the water. Mr. Gordon is correct about gel medium needing to be applied in layers for larger waves. I would suggest using Sculpey. It molds like clay and will not dry until it's fired in you oven at 275 degrees. This stuff does not shrink and cooks as hard as brick in 15 minutes. I use Sculpey for all my 1/350 scale models. You can build waves, wakes and bow waves as thick as you like. I made a Bismarck with waves almost to the deck level (almost 2 inches thick) using this stuff over 5 years ago and it still looks great. Just pick a good hard wood for the base (Mahogany, Cherry, Ash). Soft wood such as poplar or pine will warp as moisture is baked out of it so get a good grade of wood. After staining, rough up the base where the water will touch. This will provide "tooth" that the Sculpey grab to. Now position your ship where you want it on the base and draw around the waterline leaving an outline of the model. Obviously, the model can't take the oven heat so sculpt the waves around the outline as if the model were there. Test fit the model in the hole from time to time to check the fit. A snug fit isn't necessary. Once you have baked the base, put a fill the hole with some gel medium. It will seep out of the seams at the sides and you can smooth the seams away with the gel medium. Coat the rest of the base with gel medium to make all the wave look uniform. Let dry for a day and paint. Use two or three coats of Future Floor wax for a super shiny water coat. Sorry to ramble, but several people here said they wanted to share and read more techniques. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Wheelers" Subject: US Coast Guard 44 MLB Hi folks Does anyone have a photograph of the inside of the wheelhouse of a US Coast Guard 44 foot MLB? I am looking to add some details like radar, radio, throttle etc. to my Billings kit, but unfortunately these details are not described in the plans. All the photographs on the web I have found so far are of the outside of the boat, none of the inside details. Secondly, are any of these craft stationed in North West Washington, for example Point Roberts or Bellingham? If possible I would like to go and have a look at one first hand. Thanks! Malcolm Wheeler Vancouver, B.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Martin.Lamb@dtf.vic.gov.au Subject: Re: Leviathan Silly question, but could some one tell me what the Leviathan upgrade is ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS HELENA Well, HELENA probably (emphasis on probably) was in Ms21 at the time of her loss, but that Measure didn't come into use until the June 1942 revision to Ships 2. Photos show her in a overall one-color scheme at the time of Pearl Harbor. This had to be Ms11, overall Sea Blue, so there's one alternative for anyone modeling the cruiser. Don't forget, our paint chip set includes Sea Blue (5-S) for accurate matching.... :^) John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Black and Silver Warships I won't go near the YAMATO color, except to say that it sounds to me like a muffed translation. I've never seen ANY reference to any such color combination on any IJN ship. As for the MAURY, I'll have to go back to look at Alan Raven's articles in Plastic Ship Modeler (unless you want to do it, Dan) to see precisely what paint experiments were still being carried out at that time. It's entirely possible that she may have been painted overall black since the January 1941 Ships 2 specified Measure 4, Black System, as primarily for destroyers. As for the rubbing off problem, this would have been a very flat black, subject to - as were the flat purple-blues--chalking very badly very quickly. When it chalked, it would have rubbed off on anyone brushing hard against it. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: John Snyder Subject: USS BAINBRIDGE (DLGN-25) OK gang, having just returned from my BAINBRIDGE reunion, I'm in the market for any old Aurora kits of her that anyone might know of as available. We held a raffle and silent auction this year, and I'd like to contribute a built-up model of her for next year's auction. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: AIRFIX re-releases As a follow up to Graham Walkers great news that HOOD will be back on the shelves soon. The AIRFIX rep I spoke to said that AJAX will accompany HOOD back into the land of the living. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: books for sale. Prices include postage within the USA. Others - e-mail and we will work out a fair rate. All items good to very good condition unless noted. Warship Profiles - $10.00 each. 13 - HMS EXETER 26 - RUBIS Fahey's 8th edition - Ships & Aircraft of the U. S. Fleet (1966) - $10.00 Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy by Oscar Dull (bookclub edt.) $10.00 Submarines books - $9.00 each - all are hardback w/dust jacket unless noted. All are good to very good condition unless noted. Batfish by Lowder & Scott (1980) Take Her Deep by Galantin (USS HALIBUT) (1987) The Killing Time (WW I U-Boats) by Edwin Grey ( 1972) Bowfin by Edwin P. Hoyt ( 1983) Submarines At War by E.P. Hoyt (no dust jacket) (1983) The Underwater War (British subs 1914-18) by Edwin Grey (1971) Bartolomeo Colleoni (Anatomy of the Ship series) fine copy - $25.00 The Whaleboat by W. D. Ansel (1978) Softcover book w/ photos and plans - line drawings . Whaleboat design from 1850-1970 Mystic Seaport Museum Pub. Fine copy w/ no wear. $10.00 Convoy by Martin Middlebrook (1976) photos - good copy - book club edition. $9.00 The East India Company by Brian Gardner (1971) 1st American edition no dust jaket - O/W a very good copy $7.00 Graveyard of the Atlantic by David Stick (1952 - 1970's re-print) softcover edt. Shipwrecks off the North Carolina coast. VG copy $5.00 The Wheel's Kick and the Wind's Song. by A. G. Course. (1950) fine copy in d/j. Last days of sail in Britain - photos . History of John Stewart & Co. Scarce $25.00 The Sailing Ship by R. C. Anderson (1963 Bonanza reprint) chipped d/j o/w good $5.00 The Naval War Against Hitler by Donald Macintyre (1971) maps & photos v/g copy w/dj of the book club edition. $8.00 Austro-Hungarian Warships of WW I by Rene Greger (Ian Allen 1976) fine copy Photos. listings of all ships by type. $25.00 U.S.Warships of World War II by Paul Silverstone (Doubleday) (1965) Still an excellent reference for USN in WW II - All wartime photos - fine copy. $25.00 At Close Quarters - PT Boats in the United States Navy (1962) GPO publication - large detailed history with photos - hard to find . no dust jacket was ever supplied. $40.00 Ship Modeling From Stem To Stern by Milton Roth. How-to book, mainly on sail w/ plans and photos. Fine copy of softcover (the only way it was issued) edition. $12.00 Oceanographic Ships Fore & Aft by Stewart Nelson GPO publication (1971) excellent photo book of USN vessels arranged chronologically. Good copy - slight cover wear. No dust jacket was ever supplied. $15.00 Submarine Comander by Paul Schratz USNIP (1988) Fine copy $15.00 The Ship That Would Not Die (USS LAFFEY) by Becton/Morschausser. No d/j - book plate inside - o/w good copy $5.00 Fifty Famous Liners by Braynard & Miller (1982) Excellent photos and history of fifty passenger liners - fine copy in d/j (like new) $18.00 Ben Line - Fleet List & Short History - by G. Somner (1967) World Ship Society booklet - photos - fine copy of softcover edition. History of British steamship Co. $5.00 Priscilla of Fall River by Roger McAdam (1956) history (with photos) of Fall River Line paddlewheel passenger steamer. Worn d/j o/w vg copy $15.00 The Warship in History by Phillip Cowburn (1965) Fine history of warship developement from sail to modern with interesting photos. V/G copy in d/j. $15.00 The Kaiser's Pirates - German Surface Raiders in WW I by John Walter (1994) USNIP Fine copy - photosd and plans - the best pictorial on this subject. $18.00 Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update Recent additions to the Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) site include the following new items: Review of Classic Warships 1:700 USS Helena Review of Hi-Mold 1:700 French Battleship Richelieu Review of Skywave 1:700 Liberty Ship Review of Len Jordan Models 1:1200 scale Liberty ship kit Review of Len Jordan 1:1200 Santa Elisa 1941 (C-2 hull) kit Review of Len Jordan 1:1200 Bendoran (1957 merchant ship) kit Pic-of-the-week: USS Helena (CL 50) light cruiser Added listing of information resources for 1200/1250: Guides and Periodicals Updated New Releases and Developments in 1250 Scale Added Photo Tour of USS Massachusetts South Dakota class battleship Added Photo Tour of USS Alabama South Dakota class battleship Added Thoroughbred Models 1/600 Civil War Ships catalog page Added Battle of Mobile Bay 1864 diorama by Bob Santos to Gallery page Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com Yes! Yes! Oh God,yes, it's so good! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume