Subject: SMML28/10/98VOL346
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:37:52 +1100 (EST)

shipmodels@tac.com.au
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MODELLERS INDEX

1: GRAF SPEE details
2: Re: black warships
3: Re: Airfix Mauretania
4: Re: Leviathan upgrade
5: Landing craft kits.
6: 1250 scale models made in Germany
7: Source of WWII Photos
8: An amazing SF Bay sight
9: Liberty Ships
10: Russian colors
11: Re: Celluclay for Ocean Effects
12: US Coast Guard 44 MLB
13: USS INDIANA
14: GRAF SPEE details - rudder position indicators
15: ...and Jim Shirley Productions
16: HMT Rowenda
17: American Civil War Era Ships - References?
18: HMAS Sydney

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TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX

1: Re: Plastic Ship Modeler update
2: FS - RN Camou of WW2

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MODELLERS

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1)
From: Falk Pletscher <raeplus@s-direktnet.de>
Subject: GRAF SPEE details

 One small addition to Dave Krakow's posting No. 3 in Vol 343:

 Those cones were rudder position indicators. I am not sureif they were really red and green as you could not distinguish these collors from afar. In my opion thex were black, but the port one was pointing down while the starboard one pointed up.

 Falk Pletscher
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2)
From: Vimieraa@aol.com
Subject: Re: black warships

 Is it not possible that the very dark grey that was used by ships in the Pacific up to and soon after Pearl Harbour,could be easily mistaken for black, and because it was flat it would rub off very easily. Isn't the dark grey in question almost black at first glance?  Japanese Silver: Sometimes referred to by the Japanese as Silver Grey, this was their name for the lighter of the four standard greys. The colour is not of course silver.
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3)
From: Felix Bustelo <Felix.Bustelo@ny.frb.org>
Subject: Re: Airfix Mauretania

 Art,

 I have that kit in my lengthy to do pile. From memory, it is a very nice kit and pretty much accurate. The general consensus is that it is the best of the Airfix liner kits. As far a PE for it, get the GMM 1/600 Merchant Ship set. It was recently upgraded with new features, like 5-bar railing with a thicker caprail that you can paint brown to simulate a wooden caprail.  Since this is a scaled down version of the 1/350 set, it has additional ratlines, bridge supports and other items originally designed for the Gunze Lusitania kit but suitable for the Airfix Mauretania kit.

 In short, this is a hearty go for it.

 Felix Bustelo
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4)
From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" <YOHAN.FERNANDO@Bain.com>
Subject: Re: Leviathan upgrade

>> Silly question,  but could some one tell me what the Leviathan upgrade is? <<

 It's not a silly question- a number of recently produced Japanese waterline consortium (Tamiya, Hasegawa, Aoshima, and formerly Fujimi) kits have come with one or two extra sprues similar to a Skywave equipment set. These new moldings of such things as AA guns, anchors, searclights, floatplanes etc. are meant to replace the original parts in the kit whose quality is sub-par in many instances. Hence the 'upgrade'. The quality of these new pieces is the same as recent Tamiya moldings. As for the 'Leviathan' part of the name... in Pacific Front Hobbies' catalog (and other catalogs), kits containing these extra sprues were listed as '<Shipname> w/Leviathan upgrade'. Is Leviathan another manufacturer that supplies the three companies with these sprues? I don't know. Maybe someone else knows the origin of the 'Leviathan' part.

 Yohan Fernando
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5)
From: Cataldo Torelli <torelli@arrakis.es>
Subject: Landing craft kits.

 Thank you very much to Tim Perry, Mike Leonard, Ken, Douglas Bauer and the others for the information about Saving Private Ryan landing crafts, and especially LCVP's. I've got another question for you: Is there kits of those vessels in 1/700 ?

 Best regards,

 Cataldo Torelli
 Madrid, Spain.
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6)
From: DKrakow105@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1250 scale models made in Germany

>> If you've ever seen the 1250 scale models made in Germany, then I'm sure that you'll agree that a tremendous amount of research goes into them. <<

 I agree they are nicely detailed, relative to their tiny size. However, since this came up on the topic of deck colors, I note for example that the decks of these store-bought models usually come painted grey, regardless of whether they were wood planked or linoleum covered on the ships they represent. The smaller AA guns are just blobs, etc. Resolution of detail decreases as scale decreases. I do not mean to dengrate these collector pieces. My point is
merely that for scales larger than 1250, the published research materials on the KM are largely inadequate. I would definatley not attempt to build a serious 1:350 model using only the Groener books as reference materal.

 David Krakow
 Frankfurt Germany
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7)
From: DKrakow105@aol.com
Subject: Source of WWII Photos

 Jan asked where I got a color shot of the Admiral Scheer. Its a color postcard printed in 1940 which I found it at a postcard swap meet. Incidentally, the turret tops are painted a darker shade of grey than the sides.

 These swap meets are a really good source of original photos of naval ships from about 1900 to about 1941. Back then in Germany, many postcards were printed using a photo process, not an ink system, so they are incredibly sharp in detail.

 I have also found original photo-postcards of 1930s USN and RN subjects which I have never seen published. I would highly recommend attending postcard shows as a source of first-hand material. The price for a card is usually $5-15.

 BTW the Scheer card is definaltely not a colorized BW photo, as the inscription on the back of the card says that it is a print from a color original.

 David Krakow
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8)
From: KDur597268@aol.com
Subject: An amazing SF Bay sight

 I was out flying yesterday, and returning to the Bay Area flying in over the Golden Gate we saw two old style square riggers sailing in the bay - not Tall Ships, but more like Napoleonic era brigs. They were sailing abreast and presented an amazing sight! As we flew past - being informed the while by ATC that there was a 1600' flight restriction in effect (damn!) - we saw a puff of smoke emerge from one of the ships. She had clearly fired a gun! Must have been some sort of reenactment.

 There was nothing in today's paper. Any of you SF Bay denizens know what was going on?

 One of the ships had pearly white sails, the other had white sails on the foremast, dirty brown on the main, and i couldn't tell if she had anything set on the mizzen (if there WAS a mizzen.)

 Also, what's the name of the wooden ship NG and how do I get there? I'd like to ask them, too.

 Thanks

 Ken Durling
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9)
From: SantMin@aol.com
Subject: Liberty Ships

 To the listmember who was looking for info on Liberty Ship kits:

 Four are available that I know of but the one you saw may have been scratchbuilt.

 1. Toms'....... resin kit, 7 1/2 inches long

 2. Iron Shipwright, resin kit, 15 inches long

 3. Bluejacket, wood kit, 27 1/2 inches long

 4. Skywave, New kit I haven't seen yet, plastic kit, would be about 7 1/2 inches.

 Cheers,

 Bob Santos
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10)
From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com
Subject: Russian colors

 Hello,

 Few days ago, I bought the Pit-Road Krivak1/2 frigate and Shanghai Dragon Sovremenny destroyer, but the first one give me a unknow (to me) list colors, and second one has Gunze Sanyo or Italeri colors. In both cases, I don't have those colors but I have Humbrol and Testor colors.

 Can anybody give me the similar Humbrol or Testor color to them?

 These are:

 Pit-Road Krivak1/2:
 G1   White
 G3   Red
 G29  Hull Red
 G33  Flat Black
 G72  Intermediate Blue
 G325 Gray FS26440
 PC5  USSR Gray
 PC7  USSR Brown

 Shanghai Dragon Sovremenny:
 H11/62         1768 Flat White
 H12/33         1749 Flat Black
 H17/29         1701 Cocoa brown
 H68/36         1723 RLM Dark gray
 H308/308  1728 Light gray
 H334/334  1728 Bealey gray

 Best regards,

 Roberto.
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11)
From: "Mike Leonard" <mike.leonard@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Celluclay for Ocean Effects

 Rusty noted:

>> I have tried Celluclay in the past and had real problems with the shrinkage. Since it's thinned with water, all this water has to evaporate.  Which causes gaps and the Celluclay to draw up at the edges.  This problem is multiplied depending on the thickness of the Celluclay.  To do it properly, you would have to apply it in thin layers and allow each layer to completely dry. This could take days depending on the water. <<

 Absolutely true.  However, I've found this problem can be lessened somewhat by adding some white glue to the mix. Use just enough water to get a 'doughy' consistency, then add about 10% white glue and stir.  At that point you can also add acrylic paint to stain the Celluclay to make painting it easier after it has dried.

 Mike
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12)
From: Duane Fowler <dlfowler@apple.com>
Subject: US Coast Guard 44 MLB

 I'm pretty sure that there are 44' MLBs on the Washington coast. That's what they were designed for although they are being replaced by the 47' utility boats. I'd try to get a copy of a Washington phone book and look up the CG stations and call them. They're usually a pretty friendly bunch of guys. I have modeled a few CG boats and I have never had any unit tell
me that I couldn't com aboard for photos. In fact, most of them have been pretty pleased that somebody was interested! I just got back from Hawaii where I got lots of photos of the 41317 for an upcoming project. (I was on her in 1977 and she's still around today!)

 Best regards,

 Duane Fowler
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13)
From: "David & Alicja Lombard" <a.d.lombard@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: USS INDIANA

 The History channel has a show, "Rain of Ruin" on the Manhattan project and the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombs. In it, they show some color footage of the INDIANA as she brought the plutonium to Tinian Island. This was eight(?) days before she was torpedoed.

 David Lombard
 Rossmoor, Orange County, California
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14)
From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" <raeplus@s-direktnet.de>
Subject: GRAF SPEE details - rudder position indicators

>> One small addition to Dave Krakow's posting No. 3 in Vol 343: Those cones were rudder position indicators. I am not sureif they were really red and >green as you could not distinguish these collors from afar. In my opion thex were >black, but the port one was pointing down while the starboard one pointed up. <<

 I have to correct my opinion: Dave was right. Those cones were really red and green. But they were only for rudder position indication. Straight ahead meant that both cones were at the same level halfway up the line. Hard to starboard, for example, was indicated by the red (port) cone up and the green (starboard) one down the line. Speed was indicated by so-called speedballs, which were actually rectangular fixed, black discs, so they had a circular shape from all
directions. When driving half speed, these balls were halfway up the line. The balls up meant full speed, and the balls down indicated slow speed.

 Falk Pletscher
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15)
From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com
Subject: ...and Jim Shirley Productions

 Hello,

 What happen with JSP? I don't have any news about them. In 1997, JSP annunced USS Midway 1/700, but I don't see any new kits.

 Can anybody give me any news about them?

 Regards,

 Roberto.
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16)
From: "Whitney, Floyd - MAJ" <WhitneyF@nc-arng.ngb.army.mil>
Subject: HMT Rowenda

 Someone had a question about this ship yesterday. I think he may be referring to the Armed Merchant Cruiser (AMC) Rawalpindi, sunk on 23 November 1939 SW of Iceland by the Scharnhorst.

 Floyd Whitney
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17)
From: "Rob Mackie" <Mackie@mowat.com>
Subject: American Civil War Era Ships - References?

 What are the good American Civil War era ship reference books? I have the Tony Gibbons illustrated book on ships of this era (nice artwork but is it accurate?) and the Conway Ships of the World 1860-1906, which has some information and pics. But not much otherwise.

 Any suggestions?

 Rob Mackie
 Warship
 http://warship.simplenet.com
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18)
From: tomkremer <tomkremer@ap.net>
Subject: HMAS Sydney

 I have been enjoying the thread regarding the Sydney/Kormoran incident and am now motivated to try the forthcoming B resina Sydney kit... perhaps with a scratch built Kormoran.

 Regarding the lack of survivors from Sydney:

 By way of comparison both CA Houston and CL Juneau sunk with massive loss of life among crew who floated for days before being rescued. In both of these cases great negligence was to blame for delays in search and rescue efforts.

 Several US warships were lost with all hands with no search and rescue missions ever mounted, these include DD Edsall in the Java Sea, DD Pillsbury in the Indian Ocean and DD Jarvis near Guadalcanal. DD Barton suffered 97% casualties despite being sunk in Ironbottom Sound with
rescue craft on hand by the following morning.

 There would have been no opportunity for the Sydney crew to launch boats, of course. I would imagine that some Carley floats would have made it into the water. They carried small water casks but were in no way equiped to support life for a period of days or weeks. With many
crew members perhaps injured, burned or choked with oil and no food, water or protection from the sun their suffering must have been immense and it requires no wild theories to explain why no one survived.
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TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD

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1)
From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones)
Subject: Re: Plastic Ship Modeler update

 Yes, Plastic Ship Modeler magazine is alive and well....

 When I posted the contents of Number 18 a couple of weeks ago I had hoped for delivery and mailing last weekend - but the latest word  is that PSM 18 will arrive from the printer on this coming Friday. The reason for the extra weeks delay is we were trying a new method for doing  the photos and some of the first batch were not acceptable. The linos were pixeled badly and would have re-produced very poorly. The effected images were re-scanned and are now to an acceptable standard. In fact, if they print as well as the proofs indicate, the result  will be the best we have achieved to date.  I decided to accept the delay in order to maintain the standards set in previous issues of PSM.

 To my many subscribers on this list, thank you for your patience (and for the several encouraging e-mails received in the past couple of weeks). For those of you who do not subscribe - you don't know what you are missing... For a list of previous issues and their contents - check our page at http://warship.simplenet.com

 Daniel Jones
 Plastic Ship Modeler magazine
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2)
From: "Caroline Carter" <xdt22@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: RN Camou of WW2

 I know we have received a lot of enquiries about Almark Royal Navy Warship Camouflage 1939-1945 published in 1973 by Peter Hodges .. we have just acquired a softbound version (lower r/h cover corner creased, actual cover scuffed, spine intact, very slight foxing) and wish to sell it on.

 So... is there anyone out there who would like to E-Mail us an offer.. in pounds (one pound equals about 1.66 US dollars) It's been ten years since we have had one of these so have no idea what they are fetching...

 Offers taken until Thursday.... best offer secures (credit card payment or UK cheques accepted).

 Cheers

 Caroline Carter

 PS Just back in circ. after the UK IPMS Nats.... We spoke to several US customers who say they are going to forget Florida next year and fly to the UK in October for next year's Nationals... certainly this was the best one yet!!!
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End of Volume