Subject SMML5/11/98VOL354 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:19:42 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Salem Model 2: Heller Kit - BB Jean Bart 3: Re: Graf Spee 4: KM Bridge Optical Devices 5: A Correction 6: Mines on "E" Boats 7: Tom's Model Works 8: Fuso 1944. 9: HMS Rawalpindi (and other David vs. Goliath encounters) 10: Re Archives 11: Re: Canadian Archives 12: Liferafts for HMS Abdiel. 13: Re: Rawalpindi' action 14: Reply to James Corley 15: Snorkers, Good Oh! Book list 16: Soldering Brass Rod 17: Works of Mr John Lambert, and deck figures. 18: Rawalpindi 19: Letter to Airfix and their response 20: Re: Dealing with ship decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Help! Looking for U.S.S. Iowa Book 2: New Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Re: USS Salem Model >> Hello List Members, I would like to inform those list members that there has been a delay in the shipment of the USS Salem kits to the Museum. This kit has so much detail that some technical problems needed to be solved. These problems have been rectified and shipment is expected this month. Mr. Corey has been contacted and offered a full refund. I am sorry that he chose this forum to make his displeasure known. I have stated before and do so again here, << As I said I lost the email address and had not heard anything from them. I also had not noticed a post from Mr Frohock recently. "I purchased a kit from the USS Salem museum people and have lost their email address. I am wondering what the status of this kit is." .... "Whats the story here??" >> All money paid toward the advance reservation/purchase of this model kit is being held in an escrow account. Nothing has been or will be paid out to anyone until we are notified that the models are ready to ship to us. I will not go into any more detail regarding the business arraingment between the USS Salem Model Dept. as this is not the forum for such discussion. I again apoligize to the list members for this intrusion on what we feel is a wonderful modeling resource. << I did apologize (in private) for posting here, but I frankly do not see a problem with voicing a concern over the status of the kit in SMML. Primarily since this is the same forum chosen to advertise and sell the kit. I will apologize to anybody else in the group who might have been offended by my "intrusion." I am relieved to know that the money has not yet been paid to secure a non-existant kit ...there have been others in the model industry who have been accused of taking the money for items and never delivering. I do understand that there are technical problems in the resin industry. However, when I get prepaid orders for a kit I do not cash the checks until I am ready to ship. In the event there is a problem, I willingly let my clients know that there will be a delay as well as an expected date (if one was promised) simply to avoid the inquiries and/or intrusions that my silence woould produce. As far as I can see, this has not happened. I have heard from nearly everybody in the resin business (privately and in SMML) here in the states, but not from Classic Warships. Thank you for the phone numbers Rusty.....I will call him to see where our kits stand. Maybe the kit can be here by the end of the year. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Gene Wisner" Subject: Heller Kit - BB Jean Bart I have an old kit of the French Battleship Jean Bart made by Heller in scale 1/400. I am going to start working on this kit soon. I have already ordered and received the PE sets for this kit (they look great). The problem is when I opened the box all the instructions and assembly drawings are missing. Does someone have this kit in their stash and could they make copies of the instructions and drawings for me. Thanks in advance, Gene Wisner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Re: Graf Spee Hi This weekend, I met with Herr Herbert Klemm, former Petty Officer on board the Graf Spee from her comissioning to her scuttling in Montevedeo. Herr Klemm was an artillery technician. His final assignment was to jury-rig and set the timing devices for the scuttling charges. (He used deck clocks with a contact switch, the minute-hand simply pushed the contact to complete an electrical circuit) Herr Klem is very lively at 84 years old, and is obviously proud of his honorable service in the Kriegsmarine. During his internment, Herr Klemm assembed a diary and four large photo albums consisiting of numerous private and purchased photos. I had the distinct pleasure of looking through these, which present highly detailed documentation on the Graf Spee and her travels and battles, including shots of each merchant ship she sunk, as well as photos of the Spee's various camoflage schemes and her false funnel. Returning to the discussion of the Spees deck colors, I can now confirm that the center island superstructure was indeed covered in the brown linoleum. The port and starboard-most portions of that deck, beneath the 10.5 guns are covered with longitudinal (not the usual square-perforation) wood grating. Photos show the lower bridge platforms were covered with square-perforation wood grating. I did not see any shots inside the topmost platform (the so-called "Vormarsgallerie") but Herr Klemm maintained that it was not covered with linoleum or gratings, rather that it had a dark grey skid proof metal deck. He said he was often sent up to that platform to attend to the rangefinder. I made some photograpic copies of Herr Klemm's photos and hope to have them published in some form or another. Will keep you posted. Cheers David Krakow Frankfurt Germany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: KM Bridge Optical Devices Hi Thanks for all the pointers on KM radar antenna. I think I have enough data now to make up my own drawings for the early FuMo types. However I am still lacking the necessary documentation on the small optical devices seen in the bridge areas of KM ships. These were usually mounted on swivelling pedistals and look like a large box with a pair of enormous binoculars mounted on them. They were used to aim torpedoes, searchlights and AA guns. Data could be sent from them to the central "computer" on board, or as in the case of the searchlights, they could be hooked up directly and used to remotely aim devices. At the time the USN photographer made his shots of the Prinz Eugen, these devices had been dismantled. I would assume that they were autopsied by the USN and photographed at another location...but where are the photos? I have not seen them anywhere. Might these devices be at some museum in the USA?? One type is at a museum in Bremerhaven, however it is incomplete. Cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: A Correction Hi Everyone, In one of the past issues of SMML, and on a couple of web pages, the winning warship model at the UK IPMS nats, the USS California, has been mistakenly identified as a Blue Water Navy kit. However, the builder of this modeler has contacted us to let us know that the actual manufacturer of this kit is Iron Shipwrights/Commander Series Models. We'd just like to let everyone know the correct manufacturer, congratulate Jim Baumann on the win, and remind everyone that Iron Shipwrights will always be there to provide you with the best service possible. Thanks Ted Paris President, Commanders Series Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Mines on "E" Boats I am tyring to ascertain if any E Boats that served in the Channel actually carried mines.The offical plans that I have show mine rails running from abreast the bridge to the stern, but also show what appears to be an additional mine track at the stern on the starboard side of about thirteen feet in length.Does any body know if this short lenght of track is in fact for the carrying of mines. I am not confusing this last feature with the short length of track at the stern on the port side that carries three depth charges. Any help with the above, including number size and shape, and colour of mines would be helpful. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: FEREKR@ONR.NAVY.MIL Subject: Tom's Model Works >> I recently got one of Tom's 1/350 Balao kits in a trade & it was missing the instructions. He sent me a copy and refused my offer of payment for postage/copying costs. Now that's what I call Customer Service! Just thought y'all would like to know about a great outfit with which to do business. << I have to second Al's opinion of Tom's Modelworks. Several months ago while considering building a 1/500 Renwal USS Springfield and Revell's USS Helena, I contacted Tom and suggested these kits could use some 1/500 PE sets. Last week sets of catapults, cranes, radars, railings, figures and 20mm guns arrived in the mail gratis from Tom. They're not listed in his online catalog yet, but these sets would also be suitable for Revell's Missouri and Renwal's old North Carolina and other 1/500 USN ships. Thanks for a much needed product and hopefully for kindling some modeler interest in these old kits. A similar suggestion to Caroline at WEM has resulted in their decision to produce the 1/500 USN aircraft, again providing needed improvements for the Revell Yorktown and Enterprise sitting in my closet. Can't wait to get a few squadrons. Both these suppliers have demonstrated remarkable responsiveness to a few modelers' requests, particularly those of us who find 1/700 too small and 1/350 resin to expensive. Incidentally, if anyone is wishing to part with their old Renwal ships, please let me know. Ron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: Fuso 1944. "From: "Lester Abbey" >> ... I also understand that Conway Maritime Press is publishing a book on the Fuso but I can wait no longer (plus the fact than when I buy it may not have the answers that I need anyway). << Lester: If the FUSO book is like that of YAMATO or TAKAO, then I think it will answer you better than you may expect. I've got both of them and I'm very pleased. Moreover, the next time I order books from Conway, I'll buy it. If you want to know something about the book then, let me know. Precisely, the mix that Arjun Sarup refers is indicated by Skulski in his books, along with that of the hull below waterline, etc.. About the Rawalpindi vs Scharnhorst, I've got a little collection of books written by German officers covering raiders of WW I (Emden, Wolf, Möwe...) and,IMHO, the lesson which someone indicated about liners was learned by the Germans early in that war (noting that all of the W.W.II raiders were merchantmen), as Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse et al failed as such, because they were great fuel consumers (a big problem when one is not ruling the waves, but treating someone else lines) and, quoting The Eclipse of the Big Gun, "large, distinctive and vulnerable", that is, difficult to conceal. For such reasons, when the second wave of raiders went to sea, from mid 1915 onwards, the German navy employed standard merchantmen, who were easily camouflaged or altered underway (If someone is interested, I can send a excerpt of the process which led to the adoption of the vessel that served as SMS Wolf). The Royal Navy, on the other hand, tried to protect their own lanes, using every ship available ( as was in our Civil War, when the bous, or fishermen served as everything) to close the access to the Atlantic (which eventually led to a(n unequal) fight against a warship) About the Internet Kit shopping, I wish offer my recent (an a little sad) experience: From two years on (that is, from when I accessed Internet for first timer), I usually buy on the net, mostly books and some kits. The last one I've received is Accurate Miniatures SBD-3 (Yes, I also build planes, but only naval ones -and some non naval Spanish AF, of course-) for which I must pay 884 ptas. of Customs duty, VAT, on an amount of 3193 ptas. that is an 27,69% more (fortunately, that is the first time Customs Officers are interested on my overseas shopping). Notwithstanding, overseas shopping is attractive if you live in countries where there are an absolute dictatorship of the big injected plastic manufacturers (Tamiya, Revell, Airfix,etc.), or you're charged with an 30% surplus on books and magazines, (That's why I buy directly to Conway) Un saludo Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: HMS Rawalpindi (and other David vs. Goliath encounters) All this talk about HMS Rpwalpindi is rather interesting, and it is true that although an AMC was no match for any modern warship, but as Mark Kwasnycia aptly notes in yesterday's SMML, a lucky 5.9" hit could damage the bridge and kill all the senior officers (which was almost exactly what happened to the Sydney when she faced off against the Kormoran). I wonder if a kit of the Rawalpindi or any other AMC would be popular. While we are on this thread of David vs. Goliath, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned HMS Jervis Bay and her encounter against the Admiral Scheer in 1941. Jervis Bay was sunk but Captain Fegen also took the initiative in sacrificing his ship (Jervis Bay took about 20 minutes to sink) and enabling most of the convoy he was escorting to escape, an action which earned him a posthumous Victoria Cross. Admiral Scheer expended much of her ammunition in this encounter and eventually had to return to Germany. There was the action of the Liberty Ship Stephen Hopkins, which sank the German auxiliary cruiser Stier, which was in itself amazing because the Stephen Hopkins had only one 4" gun and a handful of AA guns. Finally, the actions of the DDs and DEs off Samar when they faced off against Kurita's ships, and especially USS Johnston that day was noteworthy. Any more David vs. Goliath encounters I didn't think of? Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "arthur" Subject: Re Archives For Rimierra The RNZN archives are not on line yet. The 50th Anniversary book is available detailing everything from the days of the Maori Land wars ( row boats with mounted armament) to 1990 ,from most book shops. email me if you have a particular question, I live an hour away from the Naval Base at Devonport. All photographs are available for NZD$15-00. Arthur NZBG icq 1298989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Tom Dean Subject: Re: Canadian Archives I cannot speak for New Zealand, but the Canadian Archives pages are not that interactive yet. You can get information on what and how you order and can even submit some e-mail requests. To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen anything on the page where you can gain direct access to a specific article. Seeing that this is a ship list, I would assume hat it was pictures of Canadian Naval vessels you were seeking. If so try the following address. It is for the Naval Museum of Manitoba. Seems strange that a province so far removed from either sea coast has a naval museum, but it is an excellent site. Among other things they have a complete list of pictures of just about every ship that served in the second world war. The file is still building as well. Just follow the instructions. Even if you are not looking for a specific ship it is a great site to spend an hour with. Try the following http://www.naval-museum.mb.ca Tom Dean Hamilton, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Herron, Chris H" Subject: Liferafts for HMS Abdiel. I am currently building the B-Resina model of HMS Abdiel in 1/700 scale and was wondering if anyone knows a good source for some suitable liferafts. Do any of the Skywave accessories sets have anything that would work? Thanks in advance, Chris H. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: Rawalpindi' action I would think that the RN took the larger ships as AMC's for their superior speed. Many of them where turbine driven, and very fast. You mention that they operated in bad weather, and the North Sea has plenty of that, could also be a reason why they took larger vessels As for the 6" hit on the bridge: This is possible if the command staff did not take refuge in the armoured battlebridge, and stood on the open bridge, in an arrogant mood. This is unlikely, as even a 6" shell has no difficulty of destroying the bridge in one shot. The command tower, however, is the best armoured part of the ship, except for the turrets. Indeed, one AMC between two battleship is a small prize, as they could add the Newcastle up to their score with ease. It could be that they were under orders not to engage warships, but then, why attack the Rawalpindi? The Newcastle hardly poses a graver threat, but at least one author (Bernard Edwards) suggest that the germans thought the game was up, and the Newcastle was the first warship to arrive, spearheading the larger units. Although this was not true, the Germans were scared of. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "J. Matthew White" Subject: Reply to James Corley Dear Mr. Corley; James you can find the Salem Museum's e-mail address on their web sight (www.uss-salem.org). You should also read the promo on the kit, as it states that design on the kit will not start until the Museum has sold a minimum of thirty-five kits, which happened about mid August. Also stated is an early order discount of $25.00 off ($250.00 - $25.00 = $225.00) with an ordering deadline of October 1st. Design on the model is finished and production on the first run of 75 kits (biggest 1st run of any C. W. 1/350 kits) has begun with an ETA of mid to late November. You of course already knew all of this and wrote your inquiry because of your relationship with Commander Models/ John Warneke, and your own resin ship model business. Have a very nice day Your friend always Steve Wiper/ Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Tim Perry Subject: Snorkers, Good Oh! Book list What a book! What a film!! And some people can't understand the fascination with Flowers! I must have read and reread it a dozen times and it still gives me goosebumps! Have you read Monsarrats HMS Marlborough Will Enter Harbour' ? I have been trying to get hold of a copy of 'Three Corvettes' which I understand was published in 1945. I suggested a SMMLies favourite book list a few months ago, but got no response. Any contributions now? Just mention a book and author that have inspired your modelmaking. Gene and I obviously vote for Nicholas Monsarrat! Tim Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Tim Perry Subject: Soldering Brass Rod Dear All, The trick with soldering is cleanliness. Use steel wool to polish the areas of the wire (or any other surface to be soldered) so that it is bright ; DO NOT TOUCH IT from then on! Using a soldering iron with a clean bit, dip the tip in some flux paste, then onto the solder wire. The iron tip should be smoothly covered in molten solder. If it forms small droplets, it is not clean enough! Then put a dab of flux on the cleaned part of the wire, put the tip of the iron onto the fluxed wire so that as the wire gets hot, the solder runs onto it, pushing the flux out of the way. This is called 'tinning', and results in a thin layer of solder on the wire. The wire will look shiny silver, rather than brassy, but should not look any thicker! The flux prevents air and grease getting between the molten solder and the surface of the brass. Repeat for the other bits of your mast. Remember it must all be CLEAN, so wire-wool the joining areas again, so the solder layer is bright. Then lay the wires together on a piece of hardboard. Thumb-tacks, pins are useful to hold things in position and it might be neccessary to leave some elements over-length, to be cut back later. Areas to be joined should now be 'solder to solder'. Again, apply a dab of flux to the point where the wires cross, and apply the iron directly over the cross. You should not need any more solder, but if a blob does form at the junction, let it cool and file it away. Provided everything is kept clean, a soldered joint will be far stronger than a glued one, and the final structure much more able to stand the strains of rigging. The usual problems are greasy fingerprints stopping the solder bonding properly, or the assembly moving before it cools. This is where some ingenuity is needed to jig the parts while they are heated. Sometimes it is best to make a complex jig to hold the whole mast assembly, and finally play a blow torch flame over it to solder it in one go. Solder paste is excellent for this, and as there is no contact from the iron, it should all stay in place. Radio Shack/Tandys sell small tubes of this flux/solder dust mix. (This whole process would be far easier to illustrate than discribe!( :^ ( ) Word of warning; don't use blow torches where there are flammable paints, plastics, furniture, dwellings, airships etc. Courts of Inquiry are unlikely to accept a bit of modelmaking as a resonable excuse for a major conflagration..... Make sure the flux is all removed before applying paint. A good scrub with detergent and an old toothbrush is good for this. Ideally, use an etching primer an any metal parts before a colour coat. Try your local Auto Accessory shop. Here in the UK we have the fabulous Halfords range of products, and at the moment they have a 'Second Tin for Half Price' offer. Don't forget to stock up on their wonderful plastic primer at the same time! Hope this helps someone without causing too many scorched fingers, Tim Perry Bristol, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Tim Perry Subject: Works of Mr John Lambert, and deck figures. Dear John, Argh! How can you post lists of wonderful data on F****r class corvettes, without a price, publication date, address for orders etc!! All over the world F****r junkies will be plunging into a gruesome form of 'Cold Turkey'! Including ME! Seriously, could you advise when this information is to be made available? I am sure if this is seen to be a 'commercial announcement', Greg will put it in the traders section. I would also appreciate a source for the rest of your drawings, as I have a few I picked up at the Model Engineering Exhibition a few years ago, but would love to get the rest! No-one seemed to carry them at the recent IPMS show, for example, just when I had folding money in my pocket... Can I endorse the previous comments on WEMs beautiful little 1:350 MTBs, and say I WANT some of the figures Caroline and Dave had on show. I have often thought how dead model ships look without crews, but the etched figures available are so very flat, especially in the larger scales. I have found that EMA sell several ranges of figures including some in 1:400, 1:500 and 1:200. They are really architectural so if you look closely they have suits (and skirts!!) but they are injection moulded, so rounded. I will get some prices and contact details. Best wishes, Tim Perry Bristol, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Gayle Fink" Subject: Rawalpindi Please excuse this posting if it is redundnant--I've only been a subscriber here since 10/30/98! For a lucid analysis of the triumphs and lowpoints of the RN from 1918--1945, check Correlli Barnett's "Engage the Enemy More Closely: The Royal Navy In World War II" (1991-- it is out of print, but may be available through public libraries) Of the Rawalpindi fight, Barnett writes: "It was now to fall to Kennedy to be the first commander of a King's ship in the Second World War to demonstrate instinctive obedience to the spirit of Nelson's final flag signal at Trafalgar: "Engage the enemy more closely!." Retreat was not an option. Barnett also discusses poor choices made by RN leaders too, as in the decisons to equip destroyers with guns incapable of elevating more than 40 degrees, and the selection of HACS--high angle control system-- over a tachymetric system, for anti-aircraft gun control. In a more literary vein, Alistair Maclean (author of "HMS Ulysses"), in a book of collected short stories entitled "The Loney Sea" (1985) does justice not only to Captain Kennedy and "Rawalpindi", but also Captain Fegen and 'Jervis Bay, who went up against the Admiral Scheer.' And if there is a sort of American parallel to the bravery demonstrated by Captains Kennedy and Fegen, I would offer up the men and ships of "Taffy 3" in the Pacific--check this website-- http://www.uconect.net/~bosamar/index.html Phil Lord -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Letter to Airfix and their response Hi all, here is the letter I sent to Airfix, along with the petition: Attn: Mrs. L.C. Wilkinson, Customer Services Administrator Dear Mrs. Wilkinson SUBJECT: 1/600 SCALE SHIP LINE I am representing a group of international ship modelers that are members of an Internet forum known as the Ship Modelers Mailing List (SMML). Through the forum, ship modelers exchange tips, ideas and facts as well as express desires and wants for modeling subjects. Recently the topic of 1/600 Airfix ship models came up, specifically the absence of any new ship kits in that line. As a result, an informal petition and vote was held were SMML subscribers were asked to present up to three new subjects that they would like to see in the Airfix 1/600 scale line. In addition, voters were asked to select up to three out of production kits in that series that they would like to see re-released. The results of this vote are attached along with a list of the voters. Our hope is somehow convey to Airfix management that there is indeed interest in your 1/600 scale ship model series. Sincerely, Keith Butterley Here is the response: Dear Keith Re: 1:600 SCALE SHIP LINE We were very interested in your recent letter concerning 1:600 scale ships. It is always nice to hear from our friends in Canada and your attempt to provoke interest in the kits you mention are much to be admired! With regard to the list of new kits you have mentioned regrettably none of these are in our future plans. With regard to the re-release of classical kits, we are pleased to inform you that some of these are already on our range and some are actually planned for 1998. We give below details of the current situation. HMS Hood HMS Ajax Moskva RMS Mauretania All of the above kits are to be re-released during next year. King George V Bismarck Belfast Iron Duke Warspite All of these kits are in our current range and are available for purchase. As far as the HMS Suffolk is concerned, this kit has recently been withdrawn from our range but may still be available with our distributor in Canada. USS Forrestal is a Heller kit and as far as we know is still available and may be available with the Heller distributor in Canada. For your information our Airfix distributor in Canada is: PM Hansen Ltd, 4-11191 Horseshoe Way, Richmond, BC, Canada V7A 4S5. Tel: 604-271-1213. (This is very convenient for me, it is about 25 minutes from where I live here in Delta, and for what it is worth, I grew up in Richmond) You may enquire from the above as to the availability of the kits that are currently in our range as they may be able to assist you in obtaining these. With regard to the others in your "kit wish" re-release programme, we regret that at the moment these will not be re-released in the foreseeable future but nevertheless the interesst that you have expressed in those kits will be kept on record. In the meantime may we thank you once again for your kind letter. Yours sincerely Mr. P. Bacon CUSTOMER SERVICES MANAGER So there it is. Now anybody interested in petitioning Hollywood for a remake of "Sink the Bismarck" :-) Happy modelling guys Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: ModelerAl@aol.com Subject: Re: Dealing with ship decals Guess I should have provided the URL for Internet Modeler: http://www.internetmodeler.com/ Al -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Brent Subject: Help! Looking for U.S.S. Iowa Book I looked at a large book on the Iowa some time ago, but I didn't buy it. Now I want it and I can't remember it's title. It seemed like a relatively new release. It covered the Iowa only. It had a pictoral history from when she was built to her condition today. I think it was a large book. Any help? Thanks! Brent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: New Models We are shortly to receive stock of T.C. Models kits for the first time.. these are all 1/48 Scale kits. Built-ups at the Nationals were impressive. TC5 is a 40ft Coastal Motor Torpedo Boat (RN WWI) at 32.00 pounds 280mm long (just under a foot). 6 resin parts, 24 photoetch parts, 2 white metal parts, 7 brass parts TC6 is a 55foot Coastal Motor Torpedo Boat. The kit 370mm long 18 resin parts, 33 photoetched brass parts, 4 white metal parts, 9 brass parts..49.00 pounds and... even more interesting (considering recent SMMLlie discussions)...... TC7 "Turbinia" a984. The first steam turbine ship. 44 resin parts, 41 photoetch parts, 73 brass parts, wire and chain, scale figure, 658 mm (well over 2 ft long). 109.00 pounds. COOL! All full hull... shipping at cost. Cheers! Caroline White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume