Subject: SMML9/11/98VOL358 Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:10:44 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: THE good colour... 2: Soviet warships paintings 3: Re: Stern name decals? 4: Re: Phalanx gun question 5: Re: Small scale aircraft uses 6: USN Colors and Patrick Hreachmack 7: SOW 8: Re: Message for Juergen Mayer 9: Guadalcanal colors 10: Re: Ship Movies 11: Re: Colors 12: JMSDF LISTING 13: question -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Ship colours and future titles from W R PRESS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: olivier CORTOT Subject: THE good colour... Hello everybody, I'm very new in SMML and obviously this is what I was looking for to improve my modeling techniques. First, a very simple question: what is the good color for Japanese ships ? I've tried many grays but i'm still not satisfied. help! I'm building the hasegawa's kirishima, and it seems to me that the box art and the kit doesn't represent the same version. What period the kit is representing ? P.S.: excuse my poor english abilities. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Tomcat" Subject: Soviet warships paintings Regarding the question of colours used for russian warships, here's an address that might be useful. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/ They list a large number of ships among others a number of russian units. Good luck with your modelling. Fredrik Tholander -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Stern name decals? John, I'm sure ship modelers would like anything we can get. But (as I see it) there are two problems you would have to overcome. (1) The size problem. Stern ships names are very small compared to the hull numbers in most cases which you pointed out. You also stated (which is true) the tiny letters for 1/700 scale models probably can't be clearly produced. (2) Producing a useable sheet. It would have to be a sheet of ships names in different classes. For instance, a destroyer sheet, a cruiser sheet etc. There are records of every ship name ever produced (which were a bunch). It would take a long time to use more than 2 or three decals off the sheet. Perhaps a smaller sheet of the more popular names with an alphabet for custom works not covered on the sheet. Once again, the size problem occurs. This begs the question, "Would it sell?" That's the question only you can answer since it's your money going into the sheet. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Phalanx gun question >> BTW - what was the error in there when they fire on the Aircraft with the Phalanx? << No. The Close In Weapon System (SEEWIZ) when armed, will take out ANYTHING it picks up on it radar. Friend or foe. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Small scale aircraft uses >> What makes me wonder though is; what do you use these aircraft for? Surely, they are too small for static models on their own...or are they? << There is a category at the Nationals every year for 1/144 scale and smaller aircraft. Most of these models are really exquisitely done. The smallest models always get the most attention. No doubt you will see some the WE stuff end up in these categories. I have only seen a few of WEM aircraft, but if the B-36 for example is as detailed as their other models, they would surely be seen at the Nationals in the coming years. Maybe there is a new category in the making. If there is sufficient numbers entered each year to suggest this it could happen. Each year we, as head category judges are asked to suggest any category changes that would improve the contest. Who knows, it could happen. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: USN Colors and Patrick Hreachmack In this writer's opinion (notice:OPINION), it is probably best for the modeler to confirm Mr. Hreachmack's information with a second or third source before applying anything to your model from his book. If you subscribe to Plastic Ship Modeler, I strongly recommend reading the comments in some of the back issues made by several naval 'authorities' regarding the content of the book in question. Allow me to continue by saying that NO ONE here is a complete naval expert, and modelers should at least try to confirm what they read from different sources, regardless of who the author is. After all, we're all human... Patrick Hreachmack declared the Floquil colors to be dead on...Jon Warneke and I did research to prove that the Floquil colors were out in left field. Randy Short and John Snyder, no doubt the best-versed individuals in the USN color arena, agreed with our findings, but also found some of our colors to be a bit whacky...to say the least. When I did my lecture on USN Camo practices at the 1998 IPMS Nationals, I had the opportunity to compare our research with Snyder & Short's. I will openly say these guys did their homework. Are they the exact colors used by the USN? I haven't found anybody (yet) who has the data to prove them wrong. So, in closing, let me offer my 2 cents worth to all the new 'USN camo junkies' who want to learn about this stuff. The best way to go about it is this way: #1. Buy Snyder & Short's USN Paint Chips #2. Buy Floating Drydock's Camo 1 and 2 books. #3. Obtain the design sheets for the particular ship you're doing. #4. Get photos of the ship. For #3 & #4, I suggest Floating Drydock. Tom carries a huge number of photos and design sheets for just about everything. There's my 2 cents' worth. Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "arthur" Subject: SOW For those who do not know of its existence, there is an interesting web page for ship buffs from Japan. Mainly modern warships, and the magazine does have historical articles. http://www.ships.acvs.com Arthur NZBG icq 1298989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Message for Juergen Mayer Herr Mayer, I tried to send you two e-mail messages about the model of the Mauretania, but both were returned. I am sorry to say I went to the hobby shop today and the model of the Mauretania has been sold. However, I think I read recently that Airfix is going to reissue the Mauretania kit. Best regards, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: Guadalcanal colors I've seen the camouflage of USN ships during the Guadalcanal naval battle period (8/42 to 11/42) dealt with piecemeal so I thought I would put down my guesses for all the major units (from photos, references, and comments in SMML) in one place and folks can make corrections: South Dakota: MS21 (or MS12?) Washington: MS22 Astoria: MS11 (or MS21?) Quincy: MS12 modified Vincennes: MS12 modified Chicago: ? San Francisco: MS11 (or MS21?) Boise: ? Salt Lake City: ? Helena MS11 (or MS21?) Atlanta: 5-N hull with 5-O mottled over 5-H (or 5-H over 5-O?) Juneau: same as Atlanta Portland: MS11 (or MS21? Minneapolis: MS11 (or MS21?) New Orleans: MS11 (or MS21?) Pensacola: MS11 (or MS21?) Honolulu: MS11 (or MS21?) Northampton: MS11 (or MS21?) Also, with respect to figures on the length of a ship, what does "pp" mean. Alan Lindstrom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Ship Movies >> With the success last year of "Titanic", let's hope that someone in Hollywood decides to do a proper naval film with state-of-the-art special effects.. << >> Under Siege has it for my money - NOTHIN BUT MO!:-) I'd love to see a movie on the career of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau - think of it; drama, suspense, espionage, perhaps a little romance (spys in France), and ultimately, tragedy. Das Grosse Boote! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Colors First, regarding those errant files being "too large to open with Simpletext", try opening whatever word processing application you use, then use that to open the large files. I have to do that--using MS Word--on the occasions when SMML comes in too large for my e-mail application to open. Now, as to colors in use in the Guadalcanal campaign, your reference to neutral grays in use prior to the Ships 2 June 1942 revisions is erroneous. The purple-blue 5-N, 5-O, and 5-H were in place by late 1941. Even so, the earlier prewar grays were still blue-grays. The USN didn't go to truly neutral grays until 1945, and even then many ships remained in purple-blues. I concur with Jeff Herne regarding the ships and their colors at Guadalcanal. However.... HORNET's Ms12 (set forth in Ships 2, January 1941) called for carriers to be Sea Blue (5-S) as the darkest color (vertical surfaces up to hangar deck level), with 5-O above that to the top of the highest point of the superstructure, and 5-H for all pole masts and slender upper works above the superstructure. Her flight deck should have been in Deck Blue, not Mahogany, if she was consistent with Ships 2. Now, we have these nice USN paint chip sets available.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Baker Subject: JMSDF LISTING For Mr. Pearce, who asked in SMML VOL 377 where he could obtain a current listing of Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force ships, may I modestly suggest that the most complete listing available can be found in the current 1,220-page edition of COMBAT FLEETS OF THE WORLD (1998-99), published by the U.S. Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Md. and available in hardcover and CD-ROM format at a good library. CFW lists EVERY numbered JMSDF unit right down to the rowboats at the Etajima Naval Academy and provides similar coverage of the ships and craft of the Japanese Maritime Safety Agency (JMSA) as well. For information on changes to both fleets SINCE CFW 98-99 appeared, contact me, the editor, at davebaker@erols.com; there are, inevitably, a few changes as older units are retired and are replace by new ones. A.D. Baker, III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Prof. George J. Stein" Subject: question On a recent trip to China, I picked up a model warship and, as almost everything in and on the box is in Chinese, I need any help I can get. Kit manufacturer: Zhendefu Kit number: 12 Scale: 1/180 Ship: "Zhong Shan" (which is the Pinyin rendering of "Dr Sun Yat Sen.") I believe it was a pre-WW-II "Nationalist" ship sunk in a river in northern China by Japanese aircraft. The hobby shop owner told me (if I understood his attempts at English) that there is a movement to raise the ship and turn it into a monument. So, any modelling (or other)info would be much appreciated. Thank you. Prof. George J. Stein Dept of Future Conflict Studies Air War College Maxwell AFB, AL 36112 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Ship colours and future titles from W R PRESS On the matter of colour accuracy in the Warship Perspectives volume on Fletcher/Gearing and Sumner class destroyers, I can say with reasonable certainty that the colours are reproduced quite well but not to 100%, as this is almost imposible to achieve in printed form. As to the camouflage worn by the vessels of the Atlanta class cruisers, the camouflage patterns will be presented in full colour in the soon to be published volume on the Atlantas, authored by Glenn Arnold. In addition to the camouflage patterns in colour there will be a detailed set of general arrangement plans of the San Diego (1944) drawn to a scale of 1"=16feet, folded and laid loose in the book. There will also be over one hundred photos, most of which have never been seen before. The Atlanta class volume will be followed by Flower Class Corvettes written by John Lambert. The amount of new material that will be in this book is simply staggering. There will be published within the new few months; "Royal Navy camouflage in WWTWO Vol One (1939-41)" Other volumes on camouflage will follow. Other class titles are in preparation, and will be announced in due course. W R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume