Subject SMML14/11/98VOL363 Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:37:37 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Massachusetts 2: PicPost, Archives, Herne class BB and all that jazz! 3: Where does SMML Go? 4: Re: USS Massachusetts 5: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! 6: Straightening brass wire 7: Re: CV-2 Lexington 8: Re: German ship sterns 9: Re: Resin VS Plastic 10: Re: CV conv 11: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! 12: Titanic's present color 13: Broken sterns. 14: Re: wire for rigging 15: Thanks to all. 16: DKM Bismarck 17: Brass wire sources 18: Re: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! 19: Re: Naval Gazette 20: Name your locale 21: Battle of Sunda St. 22: SMML Archive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: USS Massachusettes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: McKellar Subject: USS Massachusetts I will be providing photos to 4 web sites (including SMML) and Sea Classics magazine. I'll post the web sites in a future volume of SMML after I've scanned and sent them. But I have two questions about the ship: 1) On the middle front of the Bulbous nose, there is a v shaped protrusion shaped like this - "<" with the bow to the left and stern to the right. You could fit your hand thru it. What is this? 2) There a - I think I've got the term right - 4 stabalizers on the ship each about 25 orso feet long. Is this the right term? and does the kit have these? Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Sue & Ben Subject: PicPost, Archives, Herne class BB and all that jazz! Our illustrious Listmaster wrote: >> . . . ] During this process, Jeff and I hope to establish some sort of FAQ sheet to prevent "Repeat" questions from new readers. << Or really dumb ones from old readers, like: do I go direct to Jeff to post pics or do I announce I have material that might be of interest in here and let him call on me? I recently took a side trip to the USS North Carolina (BB-55) during my vacation and just got the pictures back. Would anyone on the list have interest in seeing them posted, keeping in mind that they were taken by a pud knocker without an SLR? I have to admit they came out pretty nice, it was a beautiful sunny day and all... >> Another suggestion I received from a reader was that everybody on the list should mail in their name, city and country, so we can put up a list on the Site showing how many countries SMML is going to, what cities, and list of everybody who participates to make SMML what it is. I think this is a cool idea - what do ya'll think? << I agree, it's a good idea. Not everyone will be willing to go along though. >> BTW - When you visit the PicPost page, Check out the snaps of the latest Herne Class BB - Well worth a look:-) << Given that I happen to know what our Listmaster refers to here, I can only say: GROANNN! What a bad joke Greg! :-) Be warned everyone, Greg has a sense of humour. :-) Oh, before I forget! A happy first birthday to SMML, a little ahead of time. Ben Montreal, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Donna Ogilvie Subject: Where does SMML Go? >> Another suggestion I received from a reader was that everybody on the list should mail in their name, city and country, so we can put up a list on the Site showing how many countries SMML is going to, what cities, and list of everybody who participates to make SMML what it is. I think this is a cool idea - what do ya'll think? << I think it's a great Idea! Greg Ogilvie Aliso Viejo, Ca. USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: USS Massachusetts >> I am going to start building the Blue Water Navy kit of USS Massachusetts shortly. I would greatly appreciate any photos that you don't mind scanning for me, since there is usually very little documentation below the waterline for ships like this. << The lower hull on the BWN USS Massachusetts is correct below the waterline. It is a really interesting design for a hull. Note that the ship has 5 blade props on the outside skegs and 4 blade props on the inboard shafts. I visited the ship in drydock yesterday. If you look just right, you can see the outboard props and man are they large! It is really interesting seeing a Battleship out of the water. I hope to able to get a visit into the drydock sometime soon. If I do, I will be sure to be armed with a video camera and still camera! As for the BWN kit, you will need both the TFW-BB59 plans from Floating Drydock AND the Chesley drawing from the USS Massachusetts book to do the kit properly. The USS Massachusetts went through several major and minor alterations between 1944 and 1947. The Chesley drawing is correct for the ship just out of her 1944 refit and the TFW plans are good for the ship in 1945-1947. If you are modeling between 1942 and 1944, you will need to use lots of photographs to do some scratchbuilding because the model is depicted in her 1944-1947 layout. The changes the ship went through between 1942 and 1944 are considerable. However, BWN did provide you with enough of the complex pieces (such as the second boat crane) to finish her in the 1942 configuration if you choose to do so. The major changes involve moving splinter shields and scratchbuiling/moving some platforms for the guns and directors. FYI, USS Massachusetts wore MS 12 camouflage when comissioned in 1942. She seems to have lost that scheme sometime late 1942/early 1943 and ended-up in MS 22. Massachusetts spent the rest of the war in Measure 22 camouflage. She was painted MS 13 (Haze Gray) in 1946 and is still in this scheme as of yesterday morning . Since she is in drydock for painting as well as repairing the hull, It will be interesting to see if the Museum paints the ship in MS 22 or MS 13. I'm hoping for MS 22 since this was her primary wartime colors. If you need any help on the kit, please feel free to ask! John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! >> When you visit the PicPost page, Check out the snaps of the latest Herne Class BB - Well worth a look:-) << The USS Katelyn Nicole Herne looks like she is ready to set sail! FYI, be sure to practice securing the "blast bag" to the hull while she is still does not eat too much. Otherwise, the bilge will tend to leak with disastrous results . John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Terry Sumner" Subject: Straightening brass wire Brass wire can be straightened easily using the following method: Take your length of wire, whatever length you choose, and securely clamp it between two sources. (I use 2 sets of hemostats, but common pliers will do just fine.) Now.... VERY SLOWLY,,,pull until you reach when it feels like it's tight, then stretch just a LITTLE bit more, so that you are actually stretching the length of the wire just a tad. This works beautifully to make the wire just about perfectly straight. I use this method all the time with wire diameters of a few thousandths of an inch up to whatever I can pull hard enough to stretch. With the very fine wire though, you just have to be careful and go slowly as the wire will usually break at the clamped point. Hope this helps, Terry Sumner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Rowland Subject: Re: CV-2 Lexington Hello, I'm going to build a Lexington at the time of Coral Sea, but I'm not sure of some details. When her 8" guns were removed, were they replaced by 5"ers like the Saratoga or some other type of AA? Also did she still have her twelve 5" guns? If anyone knows of any other details I should know about, that would be great! Thanks! Jason Rowland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: German ship sterns Besides the Graf Spee having her stern blown off after scuttling, Prinz Eugen also lost her stern (I can't remember the cause- a mine?) up in Norway I beleive and was fitted with a makeshift rudder to make it home to a German port for repairs. There are pictures of about 15 men pulling against a giant wheel fitted on the stern deck which in turn controlled the rudder. It was the only way to maneuver the ship on the way home. Also, after diving on the Bismarck, Ballard made an observation that the stern was the only area of the hull that had suffered a structural failure and guesses that this might have been a defect shared in many German ships. So with 3 major ships (or more?) showing a propensity for the same type of damage, there might be a case for saying there was some fault with the stern in the German designs. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin VS Plastic >> but I think it would be hard to convince the major manufacturers to produce subjects that have already been done in resin. << BWN made two different Fletchers (Kidd and Stevens kits) years before Tamiya released theirs. Plastic companies don't consider resin manufacturers competition because of the average cost per kit. They are working in a totally different market. Since the average 1/350 resin Fletcher kit goes for about $120.00 plus with the small parts and photo etch, they are obviously geared to serious adult modelers. Tamiya is going for people who want to spend far less and build a kit with little trouble. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: CV conv >> Does anyone know what modifications need to be made to make my Midway era U.S.S. Yorktown (1/350 scale from Blue Water) into a 1942 U.S.S. Enterprise? << There are people on this list who know better than I, but I looked into this a bit, and IIRC, Hornet and Enterprise were much closer in config to each other than Yorktown was to either, even though it IS called "Yorktown Class." I'm not sure I would want to do the reshaping required to get Enterprise from Yorktown on a kit that expensive! The easily available Squadron book on American Carriers in Action Pt.1 has side views of the class, for a starting point, to at least show you how different the Yorky was. Beyond that, I'd look into plan sets from Floating Drydock. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say about this. All the best Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Stanley Stephen S. Suarez" Subject: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! >> Jeff and I hope to establish some sort of FAQ sheet to prevent "Repeat" questions from new readers. << Great idea. The list is full of INCREDIBLE facts that are simply too difficult to find when you need them again. Notable topics would be. *Bow wave angle(by Evart-john I think) *KNOTS(aaaargh-- take your pick) *GrafSpee Deck colors *Backdating H.M.S. POW to Bismarck appearance(Mike Eisenstadt's post comes to mind) *Floater net baskets *PARAVANES *Length between perpendiculars *Bismarck Turret top colors *Yam... never mind *etc, etc, I think the rest of the SMMeLies have more in mind. >> Another suggestion I received from a reader was that everybody on the list should mail in their name, city and country, so we can put up a list on the Site showing how many countries SMML is going to, what cities, and list of everybody who participates to make SMML what it is. << Yeah, and we could organize the list by geographic location. >> I think this is a cool idea - what do y'all think? << Best idea since PARAVANES. :) Stanley Davao City, Philippines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Titanic's present color There is a website by Roy Mengot with his model of the Titanic today and explaniations of how he built it. The address is: http://www.flash.net/~rfm/index/contents.html Since the ship has been on the bottom for 86 years, it is mainly a rusty yellow/brown with layers of grey sedaments. There are some traces of the original colors, but not much. Of course, if you wanted it to be really accurate, you could cover the tank with a solid black material so that no light got in. After all, it's kind of dark down there. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Foeth" Subject: Broken sterns. I have heard people say that german ships had weak sterns, as Bismarck, and the Prinz Eugen lost theirs. Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were both torpedoed in that region, seriously weakening that part of the structure. Also, the Bismarck might also have lost it's stern when it hit the ocean floor. Some people say that this too shows how weak the stern was, but I do not think there are structures that can withstand a 40,000 ton impact. As for the Graf Spee, I do not know where the scuttling charges had been set, and how potent they were, and how the explosions propagated through the ship, but most warships exploding lose even more than just their sterns. Perhaps the sterns were less sturdy than their contemporaries, but I do not think many ships would hold on to their sterns when hit in that region with a torpedo. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: wire for rigging The firm that sells fine brass wire is "Detail Associates" and they cater to model railroad hobbyists. Stainless steel wire in those diameters is available from "Small Parts, Inc." (will look up an address tonight if anyone need it) Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Thanks to all. Hi All, My special thanks to... Art Nicholson, Steve Gustafson, Paul O'Reilly ...who prove once again the SMML is the place to get answers and that SMMeLies are GREAT people! >> Another suggestion I received from a reader was that everybody on the list should mail in their name, city and country, so we can put up a list on the Site showing how many countries SMML is going to, what cities, and list of everybody who participates to make SMML what it is. I think this is a cool idea - what do ya'll think? << I think that's a bonzer idea - count me in Greg, mate. Regards, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: DKM Bismarck OK, here we go. I am a newcomer to the list and these questions have no doubt been asked before, but I figure I'll give it a shot (so to speak). My questions concern the DKM Bismarck. I dimly remember reading somewhere that German capital ships had the tops of their main turrets painted bright colors for aerial recognition, which color depended on the operation they were on. Does anyone know if this is correct and, if so, what the Bismarck's color was for its one and only sortie? Also, were they painted when she left Germany or Norway? Finally, does anyone know the codes for Bismarck's Arados? (I am partial to making 1/48 scale models of the planes that flew off the ships I build.) Thanks! Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Brass wire sources In a message dated 11/12/98 6:11:03 AM EST, Chris Drage writes: >> Anyone who has tried 0.006" brass rodding for their rigging will know that it is excellent for stays but just a little too coarse for aerial wires. What is required is 0.004" or 0.003" brass rod. Can anyone locate a source? There are several folks who are quite anxious to get hold of some of this elusive material! Perhaps the chap who mentioned brass wire several volumes ago could suggest where to pick up such fine filaments. Unfortunately, Walthers can't help! << I'm the chap in question, and there are several sources for this very fine brass wire. If Wm. K. Walthers can't supply it, you could write to "Detail Associates" directly (sorry, I'm at work and don't have their address) or try John Roll at "Roll Models" (http://www.rollmodels.com) for this brass wire which is available in sizes down to .004". If John says he does not have it in stock, ask him to drive over to Hobby Depot and pick some up for you! ( :-) ) Alternatively, you might try using some very fine monofilament for your rigging wire. I have been using some, with what I consider excellent results, which comes under the brand name of "Dai Riki" and is .002" in diameter. (!!!!!) I bought this through the good offices of Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies (http://www.pacificfront.com) Bob Steinbrunn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: SMML Archive NOW OPEN! >> Just a short note to let you know the Archive of Back issues and the Picture Post is Now Open. Although all the issues are not yet available, the remainder will be added quiet rapidly. During this process, Jeff and I hope to establish some sort of FAQ sheet to prevent "Repeat" questions from new readers. << Great job guys. >> Another suggestion I received from a reader was that everybody on the list should mail in their name, city and country, so we can put up a list on the Site showing how many countries SMML is going to, what cities, and list of everybody who participates to make SMML what it is. I think this is a cool idea - what do ya'll think? << Good Idea. I also suggest adding areas of modeling interest Bradford Chaucer Wallingford Connecticut, USA Civil War up to WWII US Subjects US armor Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Naval Gazette I have several back issues of Naval Gazette I'd like to offer to anybody interested in 1/1200 to 1/2400 ship models and/or wargaming. All I ask is to be reimbursed for postage. If I get mutiple responses I'll divide the copies as evenly as possible. These date from 1997 and 1998. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Denis and Marilyn Campbell Subject: Name your locale Greg, I agree with the suggestion that posts include the city/country of the poster I started doing this with my posts some time ago - just because it was something I thought would be helpful. I have been corresponding off-list with someone (just 2 e-mails so far) - and I don't even know what country he is in! Denis Campbell Avon, MA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Battle of Sunda St. There have been two recent references to books on the USS Houston. I have a question about the Battle of Sunda St: In the web site Nihon Kaigun, there is an account of what happened during the Battle of Sunda Strait, reproduced below; "The Japanese, however, paid the price for their profligate use of torpedoes, because they managed to sink two of their own vessels (a minesweeper and a transport), and severely damaged three more transports with friendly torpedo fire." Then there is a passage reproduced below from the web site: http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/USN/cruisers/ca-30.txt: From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. III, 1968, Navy Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History Division, Washington, D.C. "The cruisers were almost torpedoed as they approached the bay, but evaded the nine torpedoes launched by destroyed FUBUKI. The cruisers then sank one transport and forced three others to beach. A destroyer squadron blocked Sunda Strait, their means of retreat, and on the other hand large cruisers MOGAMI and MIKUMA stood dangerously near. The result was foreordained, but HOUSTON and PERTH fought valiantly. PERTH came under fire at 2336 and in an hour had been sunk from gunfire and torpedo hits. HOUSTON then fought alone, her guns blazing at the enemy all around her, a champion at bay. Soon after midnight she took a torpedo and began to lose headway. During this time HOUSTON's gunners scored hits on three different destroyers and sank a minesweeper, but suffered three more torpedo explosions in quick succession." The 2 passages are contradictory, which is understandable given the level of confusion that must have existed during the battle. However, as per the first account, the Japanese succeeded in sinking or damaging their own ships, whereas the second account attributes their loss to USS Houston & Perth. I'd imagine a torpedo hit has quite a different effect to gunfire, so hopefully someone can shed a little light on what really happened to that Japanese minesweeper and transports. There ought to have been some survivors off the Japanese ships, so maybe a Japanese account exists somewhere. Arjun Sarup -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Stanley Stephen S. Suarez" Subject: SMML Archive Greg, I just checked out the SMML archive page and noticed that you set up each SMML issue to be readable from the browser as a TXT file. This is very handy for on-line browsing and downloading an issue or two, but for some of us who would like to download all the issues we missed(pre-subscription) it might be easier if you ZIP around 50 issues per file and make these ZIP files downloadable. 50 TXT files in ZIP format wouldn't be very large since TXT files are very compressible. It'll also be a lot easier for the ARCHIVE master since he'll only have to make about 10 links more. What do you think? Stan Davao City, Philippines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Massachusettes Hi All, If anyone has a chance to photograph the underwater area of BB-59, please keep me in mind. I will trade photos from my collection for good negatives of her, so if your in there shooting anyway, please think about bringing an extra roll of film! I wish I could go there ... Thanks! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume