Subject SMML19/11/98VOL368 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:28:59 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: IJN Linoleum 2: Corian use now on web site 3: N scale 4: USS Pennnsylvania 5: Re: USS O'BANNON 6: Re: US Carrier Deck Colors 7: Re: Hasegawa ESSEX 8: Cyanoacrylate info 9: Re: 1/72 Scale Flower Class Detail Set? 10: Re: 1/700 Arizona 11: USN O'Bannon paint scheme 12: Re: Arizona/Pennsylvania 13: Naval Camouflage pics 14: USN O'Bannon paint scheme 15: JMSDF Website 16: CV etc. 17: Anchor on Perry Class Frigate 18: 1/700 Arizona Models 19: Battle of Sunda Strait -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW Fan Publications title 2: Warship Update 3: Navismagazine.com update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Jakloek@aol.com Subject: IJN Linoleum A while ago someone posted a question about the removal of the linoleum covering on the decks of IJN cruisers late in the war. I've looked through a couple of sources for information. "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" by Lacroix and Wells, although 882 pages long and incredibly full of detail, does not mention (as near as I could find) anything about the linoleum. But, Skulski's Anatomy of the Ship volume on the Takao says, "From 1943 the linoleum was taken out of the inner decks of the hull because of fire risks in closed areas, but was retained on open decks to the end of the war." Since the Takao survived the war, presumably this was verified by post war inspection. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gene Larson Subject: Corian use now on web site Based on the discussions recently on the use of Corian for making ship model fittings I have placed a reprint of a Shop Note from the Nautical Research Journal on the NRG web site. Although the original Shop Note did not contain photos, I have added some to show examples of the possibilities. On the NRG home page go to the bottom section "SHIP MODELER'S SHOP NOTES" and click in the Corian Shop Note. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: N scale >> 1/144th is equivelent to 'N' gauge, one of the popular Europian model railway scales. A good model or hobby shop should carry loads of little plastic guys. << Actually, N scale is 1/160th scale. The rest of the raiload scales are: HO = 1/87 N = 1/160 O = 1/48 Z = 1/220 S= 1/64 G = 1/24 1 = 1/32 John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: USS Pennnsylvania There was an article in a Fine Scale Modeler special called 'Modelling the Second World War' published in early 1996, which had an article on converting the Revell 1/720 Arizona kit to the late war Pennsylvania. The author, Jim Kloek, refers to using Floating Drydock plans but included an Alan Raven USNI plan and starboard side view in 1/720, with templates for parts of the after fire control tower and emergency cabin platform, as well as stage by stage photographs of the model under construction. I have seen copies of the publication on second hand stands at various shows form time to time - perhaps Kalmbach still has some available? Robert Lockie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS O'BANNON The short answer on O'BANNON's modified Ms.12 camo scheme is that, no, it wasn't identical to FLETCHER's. I have a portside photo of O'BANNON in my copy of James Horan's Action Tonight: The Story of the American Destroyer O'Bannon in the Pacific (1945), and comparing that to the portside color camo diagram of FLETCHER that appears in Jeff Herne's Warship Perspective: Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers in World War Two makes it clear that the two ships were different. Frankly, there was so much latitude given to individual ship's commanders with those early modified Ms.12 schemes that it is unlikely that there were two ships of a given type painted the same. Roscoe's United States Destroyer Operations in World War II has a close-up photo of the starboard bow of O'BANNON after she rammed CHEVALIER during the Battle of Vella Lavella, and it appears to me that by this time (10/43) she was wearing a faded Ms.21, as there is no apparent pattern and the hull color is decidely lighter than the black boot topping. If you want a copy of the portside photo, e-mail me your snail-mail address and I'll send you a clear xerox. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: US Carrier Deck Colors Sorry, the flight decks of US carriers was stained mahogany pre-war. Thus showing them natural wood would be incorrect. The prewar carriers--LANGLEY, LEX, SARA, RANGER, ENTERPRISE, YORKTOWN--would have had the initial blue stain applied over a mahogany stain that was quite red (we've just matched it for our second USN paint chip set), so that a weathered flight deck would show reddish underneath rather than wood. By September 1941 the USN had issued the second edition of SHIPS 2 which specified Deck Blue (20-B) for wood decks, but they were still experimenting on what to do with flight decks, using RANGER as a test bed. Flight Deck stain was introduced in January 1942, pre-mixed, and presumably was put to immediate use. I've seen the reference to HORNET having a natural finish flight deck at the time of the Doolittle raid, but don't know the source for that assertion. By April '42, she should have been wearing blue flight deck stain. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Hasegawa ESSEX Yup, it does have some problems. Larry Gertner wrote an article quite some time ago for the IPMS Journal (later reprinted in the Warship SIG newsletter that was something of a precurser to Dan Jone's fine PSM) on correcting the kit. I can send a copy to anyone who wants it--just send me your snail mail address. John Snyder Snyder & Snort Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Cyanoacrylate info The following is forwarded from the Seaways list: >> there is one CA that has all the advantages of the common stuff and doesn't become brittle but stays flexible, is water-resistant (without becoming milky) and holds as strong as the normal CA, or even more. Where to get? See your local fishing shop and ask for special CA to glue fishing line and leader material. Most common in the flyfishing scene. << John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/72 Scale Flower Class Detail Set? I would like to thank all the great folks who wrote in about the Sirmar and FlightPath detail sets - my friend has some good leads now. So....thanks! Kurt SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: 1/700 Arizona >> I'm planning on converting one of two 1/700 Arizona injection kits to the post-refit Pennsylvania in 1943. The two candidates for a starting place are the 1/720 Revell and the 1/720 Matchbox kits. I already built the Revell kit as the Arizona and am wondering if the Matchbox kit is any better? << I'm afraid I bought both of them (I'm still trying to convert one into its 1916 configuration) and they are quite the same. Thet also require A LOT of work to get them to a reasonable standard. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, the Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Burch Subject: USN O'Bannon paint scheme >> I am building Tamiya's 1/700 Fletcher as the O'Bannon in her 1942 colors. Is this "dapple" paint scheme the same as the Fletcher's as depicted on the box? << I remember seeing, some years ago, a photo hanging in the offices of SUPSHIP Bath showing an early BIW FLETCHER running trials in the dappled camouflage of Measure 12. My ‘60-61 Janes shows NICHOLAS and O’BANNON completing in June ‘42 and LA VALLETTE in August ‘42 (all Bath built early FLETCHERS). I strongly suspect that the BIW contract painting schedule for the first group of BIW FLETCHERS (which included CHEVALIER (war loss per the ‘45 Fahey’s)) specified dappled Measure 12. Of more importance, however, Anthony Preston’s DESTROYERS pp. 142, 144 and 145 show black and white photos of O’BANNON and several other early FLETCHERS in a solid pattern camouflage measure in August ‘43 in the war zone around Guadalcanal. Most likely these solid measures were either Measure 11, overall Sea Blue (a lighter blue than 5-N Navy Blue), or Measure 14, overall Ocean Gray. Page 70 shows a color photo of the O’BANNON’s after 20 MM installation, which to me looks like Measure 11. Another color photo on p77 of the O’BANNON’s after TT mount appears to be Measure 11, also. I would guess that O’BANNON and the other early FLETCHERS kept Measure 12 from completion through PSA and were repainted to a solid measure sometime prior to going into action in the Pacific. Further, I seem to remember reading somewhere that Measure 12 (dapple) was considered an Atlantic Fleet measure, and the Pacific Fleet used solid measures early in WW II until the disruptive measures were introduced in late ‘43. My 1/700 O’BANNON is painted in Measure 11, to represent the scheme shown in August ‘43. I use the Polly Scale Navy Blue to represent Sea Blue (and Polly-S Sea Blue, which is a much darker shade, to represent freshly painted Navy Blue 5-N). Additionally, it is extremely difficult, unless you have a documented photo, to get exactly the right dapple layout for Measure 12 for a given ship; even then, it is difficult in most cases to distinguish the ocean gray dapples from the haze gray base on the superstructure. V/R J. Burch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Re: Arizona/Pennsylvania Yohan: I believe both kits are the same. The Matchbox kit appears to be just a re-packaging of the old Revell standby. Friedman's book on U.S. battleships may have a drawing of the Pennsylvania, but right now, I can't find my copy of the book. Must be in the pile of kits I'm accumulating:-) Also, Fine Scale Modeler has an article on converting the Arizona into the Pennsylvania in one of their Modeling the Second World War special editions. There is also a plan drawing in the article by either Alan Raven or A.D. Baker (can't remember who, but must be accurate if done by one of those two). If you want a photocopy, contact me off post and I'll send you the article (by snail mail, because I don't have a scanner at this time). Finally, you could purchase Classic Warship's Pennsylvania if you want to same time, but I guess it's more fun to take a less than quality kit and make it into something special. Personally, I'm too lazy and I'll probably get the Classic Warships kit:-) Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Burch Subject: Naval Camouflage pics “Someone on SMML asked if there are any drawings of various camouflage schemes applied to ships. I am working on a website right now that will devoted to camouflage of Naval Warships.” The Floating Drydock put out a set of 141 USN WW II Camouflage Design Sheets, and a listing of 160 USN ships which wore Measure 31/32/33 designs. I bought my copies, along with their Color Card in 1982. The Floating Drydock also published two slim volumes on USN camouflage from the WW II era. The first dealt with the broad topic and the second dealt with the Fleet Carriers; plus an addendum on the general topic. The Camouflage Design Sheets were produced by the BuShips Camouflage Design Department ( some sheets, but not all of my set actually include the marking “U.S. NAVY BUREAU OF SHIPS”) so they are probably in the public domain. You should certainly peruse all of this material if you are interested in the subject of USN WW II camouflage. Furthermore, you might want to contact The Floating Drydock to see if they are in a position to release their Design Sheets to you for publication on the web. For camouflage used by the Royal Navy (and I believe the Commonwealth Navies) in WW II, Peter Hodges’ Royal Navy Warship Camouflage 1939-1945 by Almark Publications (1973) provides a good overview along with some small, but useful, camouflage drawings, along with some good photos. V/R J. Burch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: RCM612@prodigy.net Subject: USN O'Bannon paint scheme No, the O'Bannon's dapple scheme was very different than Fletcher's. To my eye, the dappled areas are much larger than found on other ships. I have a good port side view, but no starboard view. Let me know if you'd like me to scan it for you. Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: JMSDF Website Folks: Someone previously asked about info on the JMSDF, I had a website in mind, its both in English and Japanese, goto: http://www.jda.go.jp/JMSDF/INDEX_E.HTM Thanks for the Conways info, looks likes no more annuals at present, no sign of the 'Fuso' book either. Douglas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: CV etc. It's funny how you may not know anything or do I?. I worked for the Navy Department for 33 years. I worked in the structural design section on aircraft carriers for 15 years. In this whole 33 year period I was told that CVA, or CVN meant Carrier Vessel Attack, or Carrier Vessel Nuclear. In my entire career I never heard of heavier than air aircraft for the V. Vessel was the word. But I was just a Government Employee so what do I know. Interesting? Ben Lankford Vienna, VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Anchor on Perry Class Frigate Hi, I'm trying to finish up a Gulfstream Perry-class frigate for a family member, and am puzzled by something. The kit doesn't come with an anchor; assuming the real ship has one (I assume the US Navy hasn't found a way to dispense with them), should there be one showing on the starboard side (which is where the anchor chain leads to) or is the anchor somehow stowed so it can't be seen? Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mark Knowlton Subject: 1/700 Arizona Models >> I'm planning on converting one of two 1/700 Arizona injection kits to the post-refit Pennsylvania in 1943. The two candidates for a starting place are the 1/720 Revell and the 1/720 Matchbox kits. I already built the Revell kit as the Arizona and am wondering if the Matchbox kit is any better? Since I will be replacing most if not all of the small fittings and guns, I don't care about the quality of those parts. But in terms of the hull, superstructure, 14" turrets etc. which is better? Pricewise they are the same. Also, does anyone know who has the best set of plans for the 1943 Pennsylvania? << I did the same conversion using the Revell kit, it is a lot of work but it is well worth the effort. I'm not sure about the Matchbox kit as I haven't studied it. There is quite a bit of scratchbuilding to do especially in the 5" gun deck. I used Evergreen refer siding to replace the featureless wooden decks and it looks pretty good. I used the infamous Wiswesser plans and the Keystone Battleship book by Pictorial Histories Publishing. There are some good pierside shots in the book right after the 1943 refit. Good luck on the project. Mark Knowlton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Battle of Sunda Strait In addition to those books already recommended on this subject I'd like to add F.C.Van Oosten's excellent The Battle Of The Java Sea (Annapolis USNI 1976) A good clear account of the battle and it's aftermath, with excellent tracks charts and an appendix that is worth the price of the book in itself if you can find it for the wealth of material on both the Allied and Japanese forces involved in the Java campaign. Jeff Roberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW Fan Publications title Just released and arrived in stock today, "HMS Victorious" Neil McCart h/b, 192pp, profusely illustrated history of the famous carrier... AT LAST!! (Ken Summa, eat your heart out!!!) 21.00 pounds. Cheers! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update This weeks Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) update includes the following new items: Review of Classic Warships 1/350 USS San Francisco 1942 Review of Classic Warships 1/700 USS San Francisco 1944 Pic of the Week: USS San Francisco (CA-38) New Orleans Class Heavy Cruiser Five Bob Santos scratchbuilds added to Photo Gallery: 1/96 USS Massachusetts (BB-2) circa 1898 1/700 USS Langley (CV-1) first US carrier 1/32 Plunger (SS-2) 1909 submarine 1/32 40mm Quad Bofors AA mount and crew diorama 1/32 USN 26ft Motor Whaleboat diorama Review of Blue Water Navy 1/350 WWII US Navy ships and aircraft decal sheet Review of Blue Water Navy 1/350 IJN ships decal sheet Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com Yes! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Navismagazine.com update - HMS Invincible walk-around (100+ shots) - B-17G walk-around (100+ shots - including full interior) - British type 21 frigate walk-around - 1/48 Spitfire Mk.Vb (Eagle Squadron) - 1/700 type 21 frigate - 1/72 Spitfire Mk. XXI (built from the new Eduard kit) - Basic photo-etch tecniques - 1/72 I-16 18 and 24 (two models built from the Hasegawa kit) - Naval history: the Falklands War (part II) - CH-46E Walk-around (50+ shots - including full interior) and of course our COLUMNS: - Modeler Profile - Model Showcase - On the market - product reviews - Naval reconnnaissance - News from the kit industry - New Books - Photo-history (aircraft) - with photos of a captured B5N-2 "Kate" showing the folding mechanism detail - Photo-history (ships) - with a rare 10-photo sequence of the Musashi sinking - Virtual places (includes a preview of the new "Fighting Steel, naval game from SSI) - Letters - Bulletin Board PLAY WITH OUR GAMES AND WIN: - A GMM 1/350 scale Naval decal set - A 1/48 FW 190G-2/3 (the new Pro Modeler kit) - 1/350 Ticonderoga/Spruance class detail set - 1/350 WWII Rails and ladders -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume