Subject: SMML21/11/98VOL370 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:48:59 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: N-Guage 2: Re: Shanghai Dragon Invincible 3: Revell FDR 4: Railroad stuff 5: Revell Midway Class FDR 6: More scales 7: Re: Revell Midway Class FDR 8: Re: Another sailing ship list 9: 1/700 Pennsylvania, Hasegawa Essex, and color photography 10: Re N-gauge: apologies and 1/700 Dockside Railroads 11: Model aircraft mailing list 12: Re: ACW Subs 13: Re: German BB/BC/CA sterns 14: Revell FDR/Midway 15: Additional vendor's address 16: Re: Anchor chains/Perry class 17: Glencoe NS Savannah and 1/700 US low-viz decals 18: New Jane's Title 19: Railroad Figures 20: German CA sterns 21: CVE Flight Deck Colours 22: Re: Hong Kong Hobby Shops 23: Range clocks 24: The 'V' in ship types 25: FF anchors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: N-Guage Hi Kristoffer, Re the "D&C RR" (like it!) for the "Dockyard Mateys" range... we have elected to simply call it "WEM guage". The first castings will be with us by next week, and then Peter Hall's job will be the p/etched railway track. he needs the castings to get the guage right, as Brian Fawcett has flanged the wheels... The range of wagons has now been increased by several items... we are looking at seriously cute here! I was talking to Bob Brown of MDC, who is trying to suss a way to get the buffers to spring....maybe a more flexible resin? Anyhow, we'll keep you belled. BTW, the next batch of 1/700 Buttercups has just arrived so it's back to work... Cheers D&C Carter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Shanghai Dragon Invincible Hi Roberto, The story is this on the Invincible... I was chatting with the Revell rep. at the 98 UK IPMS Nats.. partially completed ex-Skywave tooling was acquired by the Shanghai Dragon/Revell bunch, with the intention of completion of tooling and release of an injected kit.. originally this was scheduled for 12 months back in Europe under the Revell label (actually their advertising showed a photograph of Ark Royal, which was interesting...like I think you would be a little bit hard pushed to do an Ark and Vinnie from the same hull ). However, Revell, who had announced a very reasonable 14.95 pounds U.K. retail in their catalogue, ran out of money this year for further development on the project, having overspent on the aircraft budget, and the project was shelved, they hope, temporarily. The estimated price from Dragon, I believe, is far higher by the way, considering the Dragon/Revell offerings are identical from the ex-Skywave range .. the ex-VAT Revell price on the Vinnie will be 12.72 pounds, or around $20.00. Anyhow, when and if they do get round to releasing it, we just happen to do a gorgeous p/etch set for the ship, and all those nice 1/700 Harriers and Seakings for upgrading! Interesting to see what happened to the ex-Skywave partially-completed Kirov tooling........ Cheers! Caroline Carter WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: Revell FDR Poster wrote: >> I saw yesterday at a local shop an old Revell kit which had cover art showing a 1945ish version (no angled flight deck) of the FDR, a Midway class carrier. I had not seen this kit before (or any Midway class), does anyone have any feedback as to how good it is? What scale is it and how accurate? << The FDR kit, reissued a couple years ago, is typical 1950s Revell quality. The hull has a flat bottom, totally incorrect for this ship. Overall, it's generally accurate, with a couple minor exceptions. The kit shows the FDR in its 1951-54 configuration, with open bow and twin 3-in. guns. The fire control radars, however, are those mounted before the ship got 3-inchers. Also, the air wing is mostly F9F Cougars. I haven't found anything to show that FDR actually operated that type of aircraft. They *could* have flown aboard from Oceana NAS late in 1953; at least, that's how I'm depicting mine. Les -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Railroad stuff I see questions from time-to-time concerning model railroad supplies adapted for use in model shipbuilding. Since I do work on that side of the industry I have a good working knowlege of what the model railroading uses for building materials. For those of you who do not know, Walther's is one of the largest railroad model distributors in the United States with hundreds of suppliers and thousands of items in their paper and online catalogs. If you know the product name, you can search the Walther's online catalog at: http://www.walthers.com/www/productinfo/stock.html I get the paper catalog every year so if you are looking for an item (such as wire, chains, etc.) please fell free to ask! John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Revell Midway Class FDR >> I saw yesterday at a local shop an old Revell kit which had cover art showing a 1945ish version (no angled flight deck) of the FDR, a Midway class carrier. I had not seen this kit before (or any Midway class), does anyone have any feedback as to how good it is? What scale is it and how accurate? << Just to give you an idea as to how long this kit has been around, I remember building one of the Revell FDRs about 30 years ago . John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jürgen F. Mayer" Subject: More scales John wrote: >>Actually, N scale is 1/160th scale. The rest of the raiload scales are: HO = 1/87 N = 1/160 O = 1/48 Z = 1/220 S= 1/64 G = 1/24 1 = 1/32 << The 1/48 scale for 0 is not common on the isolated (?) continent (Europe without UK). Gauge 0 there is scaled either 1/45 or also 1/43.5 (double as large as H0 which stands for "Half 0"). There is also gauge II ("two", maybe they write "2" now) with a scale of 1/24, same scale as G. The letter "G" serves as an easier denotation for gauge IIm which describes a narrow gauge ("m") in the II scale like H0m descibes a narrow track in 1/87. But there is also H0e wcich is a narrow track with a different "narrowness" ... Mark wrote: >> N scale is, indeed, 1:160. 1:144 is TT scale, now definitely one of the less popular model railroad scales in western Europe and North America (although still quite popular, I understand, in places like the Czech Republic, Poland and the former East Germany). << Like John Philip said, TT is 1/120 scale, the other information given describes the situation perfectly. In a recent railway model magazine I saw a picture of a train in a even smaller scale than 1/220. But of course there was only the train and no accesories, so this does not help shipbuilders. Juergen Stuttgart, Germany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Revell Midway Class FDR Tom Kremer tomkremer wrote: >> I saw yesterday at a local shop an old Revell kit which had cover art showing a 1945ish version (no angled flight deck) of the FDR, a Midway class carrier. I had not seen this kit before (or any Midway class), does anyone have any feedback as to how good it is? What scale is it and how accurate? << I haven't actually measured it myself, but several sources have it listed as 1/547. As to how good it is, it's a mixed bag. Remember, it's a 1950s kit. Below the waterline, it's pretty terrible. It's one of Revell's old "flat bottom boats". The hull isn't deep enough, and it's squared off rather severely. Above the waterline, it's not too bad. The molded plastic railings have to go, though. The 20mm guns are also molded into the deck. Blech! Also, the kit doesn't portray the ship in 1945, since it's got the twin 3 inch/L50 guns instead of the 40mm quads. The F9Fs are also a bit of a give-away. ;-) Speaking of planes, the F9Fs are not the greatest. They're thick & under-detailed. Renwal did them so much better! (and in the same era!) The ADs and F4Us are a bit better, but still not up to modern standards. As I say, please keep in mind that this kit is over 40 years old, so it's a bit unfair to judge it against the best stuff coming out today. David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: Another sailing ship list There is also a new sailing ship list. You can join by going to: http://www.onelist.com/ and then "find a list". Then search for "shipmodelers-forum" Click on underlined name and you will get subscribing details. Gene Larson, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: jakloek@kodak.com Subject: 1/700 Pennsylvania, Hasegawa Essex, and color photography I've been following the thread about converting the Revell 1/720 Arizona to a Pennsylvania, and was gratified to read that some of you remembered the article I wrote. A couple of comments about that: first, I was aiming for a 1945 Pennsy, and I think the original inquiry was about a 1943 Pennsy, and they will look different, so while the article may be useful, it will not be directly applicable. I used plans from the Floating Drydock to do the conversion, the drawings (by Alan Raven?) in FSM were provided by the editors. As I recall, the plans were for the 1945 fitting, but perhaps there are also '43 plans available? The Keystone Battlewagon book does have some excellent photos, I would definitely recommend getting a copy. Actually, you will find it more useful for '43 than I did for '45. I also published an FSM article on the Hasegawa Essex, converting the short hull kit to an "as commissioned" state, mainly in terms of AA weapons fit. I did not attempt to deal with the hull issues being discussed here recently, I was not that ambitious, but you might check that article too. A final note about publishing in FSM has to do with color photography, which they are really encouraging these days. I have found that getting original prints of your photos which are properly color balanced to match what you really have on the model is sometimes a challenge. (It has to do with the assumptions the printing machine makes about overall color balance in a "normal" snap shot. Ship model pictures are usually way more blue than the printer thinks they should be, and they get overcorrected sometimes.) Anyway, by the time you get prints back, FSM scans them into their working draft, and they ultimately get printed with inks on the pages of FSM, you sometimes end up with something that does not look much like what your model does. This happened to me big time on my recent article on the Saratoga camouflage. As a solution, I would recommend using slide film for that photography (Kodak, of course, the new Kodak slide films are excellent), since slides are much more of a what you see is what you get system. You could also use a digital camera, but unless you invest in a really good one, I would be worried that by the time FSM got done cropping and enlarging the pictures, you would wind up with a pretty grainy, blurry image. Digital cameras do a nice job for images to be displayed on a computer screen though, since they have pretty poor resolution to begin with. Jim Kloek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Kristoffer.Lindh@alcatel.fr Subject: Re N-gauge: apologies and 1/700 Dockside Railroads Rereading the posting I sent yesterday its wording seems more excessive than humorous. As I consider I have overstepped certain limits I apologize to all SMML subscribers. Secondly I see that in a fit of absentmindedness I have changed John Sheridan's name to Paul. Sorry, John! The actual scales and gauges quoted however stand. As to my jesting question to Caroline I'd better answer it myself. After all I'm one of those who wrote to her asking for trains! When you're laying tracks dockside a scale of 1/700 implies a gauge of 2 mm if your dockyard is in Europe or North America. If in Japan 1.5 mm should be correct. All depending on the full scale gauge of the railroad serving the dockyard. Laying tracks should be easy. There is a fair chance that the rails would be flush with the pavement anyway, so the rails do not need to be done as such. And painting freight trains doesn't need much imagination. The great majority of goods vans/freight cars were various shades of dark red brown.Tank cars, cars for coal and locomotives were by and large black. That takes care of, say, 90% of all freight cars up to the early sixties. And the remaining 10% do not have to be dockside. So lay tracks! Kristoffer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Model aircraft mailing list This may be off topic to ships, but this may interest others (and I see some familiar names too!), but there is one for airliners - full size and model. The address is: amd@lofgren.demon.co.uk. Don't know of any general aircraft modelling lists other than rec.models.scale Jens BTW, IJN Linoleum - a most interesting name...:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: ACW Subs My son, who lives in Florida, tells me that the other night he caught the end of a segment on TV that told about the making of a movie dealing with American Civil War submarines, using full size models. Anyone know about this???? Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: German BB/BC/CA sterns >> Regarding the recent thread on possible design weakness in German ships... Prinz Eugen now rests on the atoll of Kwajalein with the intact stern partially protruding from the water, apparently it was attached well enough so that the atomic bomb didn't knock it off. This creates an opportunity for some SMMLite to conduct primary research via destructive testing... all you need are a ton or so of high explosive to simulate a torpedo hit. ;-) << Don't you dare! Seriously, does anyone know the status of a German sponsored salvage of the Prinz Eugen? I read some bits about it a few years ago, even have a German language book on the project, but have not heard any updates for a while. Think about it.... sure, you can visit an Iowa class next year in Hawaii, probably in at least one or two other cities someday. Lots of other preserved ships around - you can even go to Halifax and meander the decks of a dreaded Flower. But how about taking a tour on the Prinz Eugen! Think of the history.....heck, think of the souvenir shop! Kurt SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Revell FDR/Midway Its in a shop window?? Suggest you get your skates on, rush round and BUY it now. I've never seen one of these kits, although I remember them being in the Revell 60/70s catalogs. Its probably 1/542ish, similar to the Forrestal kit - or thereabouts....... Douglas (Going green with envy..........) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Additional vendor's address As an addendum to my previous post regarding various vendors for ship modeling supplies and their addresses, I'd like to add the following: For brass wire, rod, sheet, and brass structural shapes such as strip, I-beams, U-channels, Z-stringers, L-angles, etc, (all about 12" long and sold individually, contact: Special Shapes Co. P.O. Box 4872 Romeoville, IL 60441 U.S.A. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "David P. Judy III" Subject: Re: Anchor chains/Perry class I built the Gulfsteam Perry also, check photos on page 382 in Norman Friedman's US Destroyers, An Illustrated Design History, no anchors on port or strbd here! Also pages 92&93 of US Warships Since 1945 by Paul H Silverstone, FFGs 27 & 15 no anchors here either! It is my belief that the anchors were retracted into the hull on the strbd side. Just my interpretation fellas! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: jpoutre@lehman.com (Joseph Poutre) Subject: Glencoe NS Savannah and 1/700 US low-viz decals Hi all, Two questions: Has anyone built the Glencoe 1/350 NS Savannah? Is it really 1/350? Is is a new model or a resized Lifelike 1/424? How is the fit? Is it full hull or waterline? Does anyone make 1/700 scale modern US low-viz decals for Navy and Marine aircraft? How about US Army helos? Thanks in advance! BTW: I just returned from the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers annual meeting and International Maritime Exposition. Of interest was a large model of CVN 74, USS Stennis, displayed by Newport News. The bow was very different from the Italeri models - it resembled somewhat the Kuznetsov bow, only squarer in profile, sort of a wedge shape, only with a rounded front end. I'm not certain if the photo will turn out, since the model was in an acrylic case. It was pretty impressive, about 2 meters long, but the hangar doors were closed and the flight deck tie-downs were black, not white. The planes were great. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: New Jane's Title Just in time for Christmas comes a new book by HarperCollins: "Jane's Naval History of World War Two", by Bernard Ireland, with illustrations by Tony Gibbons. Rather than a conventional history of the war, as in a chronological look at engagements or an assessment of the naval strengths of the various combatants, it consists of six chapters that more or less focus on the developments in naval technology made during WW2: 1. The War against Commerce 2. The War against The U-boat 3. The American Submarine War against Japan 4. Amphibious Warfare 5. Aviation At Sea 6. Last Days of the Battleship I was somewhat disappointed at first that various famous ships and battles were more or less overlooked or barely mentioned in passing, but there is still a wealth of information in the well-written 256 page text, hundreds of excellent photos, many not published elsewhere (including a fair number in color), and a large number of maps and warship illustrations. Retail price is £29.99, US$ 45.00, CAN$ 65.50. Amazon.com offers a 30% discount if you are willing to wait for shipment. Mike Alexandria, VA, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Railroad Figures John Sheridan wrote: >> The rest of the railroad scales are: HO = 1/87 N = 1/160 O = 1/48 Z = 1/220 S= 1/64 G = 1/24 1 = 1/32 << Preiser sells boxes of unpainted figures in both N and Z scales, which might be of interest to anybody wanting to crew some of the old odd-scale Revell models such as the Olympia (or Glencoe Oregon). Mike Alexandria, VA, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: German CA sterns Hi all, I recall reading an article somewhere (in Warship International I think) that the all-welded hulls of the German panzerschiffe - a revolutionary feature for the times - created unexpected structural stresses of some kind such that an explosion like a torpedo hit could cause a sudden, catastrophic break. This is apparently what happened to Lutzow in 1940. John Maine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: CVE Flight Deck Colours Just a quick question: what about deck colours for US CVE's, especially those in the Atlantic and in RN service? Were they also finished in this dark blue colour or were they left in natural wood or what? John Maine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Hong Kong Hobby Shops Hello Greg and Everyone, Does anyone know of any hobby shops in Hong Kong (or elsewhere in Asia) that carry Zengdhefu shipmodel kits? I'm still trying to find that Jiangwei-class frigate.... Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Jowfx@webtv.net (John Fox) Subject: Range clocks What was the purpose of the range clocks which were found on prewar battleships and cruisers? John Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: The 'V' in ship types I have a tendency to disagree with the supposition that the 'V' in CV, AV, etc., refers to heavier-than-air craft. I took a quick look at the Fahey Ships and Aircraft of the USN and believe the 'V' stands for ANYTHING aviation related. Blimb and airship designations all had ZNN or ZNR squadron titles (presumably for Zeppelin, Navy, Non-rigid and Zeppelin, Navy, Rigid). Also, USS Patoka (AO-9) was converted during the 20's into a support ship for the mammoth airships Makon and Shannendoah with a derigible mast on the stern, and her designation was AV-6. An exception? I like to know if anyone can cite a reputable source to clear this up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: FF anchors I found out something interesting while doing research for the Garcia... they have button-shaped anchors that drop out of the bottom! It seems the anchors on the bow interfered with the big sonar domes. I believe the forward hawse pipes are only used for anchoring to buoys and for bow mooring lines at piers. The same probably applies to the Perry class, as well. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume