Subject SMML2/12/98VOL381 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:56:50 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Campbeltown and the DD classes 2: More on RN colors and a deck question 3: CV-4 Ranger decks 4: Re: (Campbelltown) Plans 5: Re: NS SAVANNAH & USS Yorktown 6: Re: A tale of two Savannahs 7: portholes 8: USS Marblehead 9: top speeds 10: Re: HMS Dido 11: Re: BB Fuso: Anatomy of a ship book 12: German FuMO 27 Radar 13: Ian Ruscoe's WEM 1/350 HMS Sheffield build and scale effect 14: Campbeltown follow-up 15: Re: Lindberg Olympia (#716-18) and the Pyro Maine (#C241-200) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1999 CALENDAR OF US NAVY SHIPS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: Campbeltown and the DD classes I do, of course, bow to superior knowledge. However the differences between the various classes supplied under lend-lease seems to have been overlooked in many references and they all come under the catch-all phrase "four-pipers". As far as I can tell the spelling CAMPBELTOWN is correct (I have fallen into this trap myself). As to cruisers I was always given to understand that DIDO was pronounced "Dye-Doe" Just out of interest there was a screening of "Sailor of the King" here last friday. (Channel Four, UK) which is based on the C.S.Forrester book "Brown on Resolution" With the action shifted from WWI to WWII the various ship roles were taken by ships of the Med Fleet (made in the days when we still had fleets!) including CLEOPATRA and MANXMAN, the latter playing the German surface raider (no! don't laugh!). All in all, despite the temporal shift, a fair adaptation despite the overlong scene setting at the beginning. Another interesting aspect was the showing of the 2 optional endings (the one where Brown dies and one where he survives). Les Pickstock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: More on RN colors and a deck question Dear fellow SMMLrs, Thanks again for the responses to my questions! I was placed on the list by either Jon Warneke or Ted Paris from Commander Series/Iron Shipwrights (I can't remember which) when I purchased their HMS Nelson kit. What a great bunch of people! What a great kit! Anyway, I appreciate the responses regarding RN WWII colors so I'm going to ask some more. I have three ships in particular I'm interested in: Nelson, King George V, and Illustrious. My questions are: Did the battleships retain their natural teak deck colors during the war (and if not, what colors did they use); what colors were the metal decks on the BBs and CV (incl. flight deck); and what were the colors used in Illustrious' disruptive scheme and when did she carry it (RN color numbers OK)? Finally, on a somewhat unrelated point (after all, this entire list is related), what do you all think about using VERY thin strip styrene to simulate expansion joints on the decks of Tamiya 1/350 BBs where the seams are. While certainly easier than trying to fill and scribe the seams, this might be considered rank cheating. What are your opinions? This is sure a great place for information and I appreciate all your answers and advice. Thanks again! Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: CV-4 Ranger decks Dear SMMLer's I've just seen a new book in the book store. "Jane's Naval Hist. of WWII" on page 201 shows a picture of the deck of the Ranger. Which there is no doubt that it is natural wood stained deck. There are alot of pictures of ships that I've never seen before. Shaya -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Re: (Campbelltown) Plans I think the British renamed the "Lend-Lease" destroyer Campbeltown - for some reason I'm remembering that the ship was the U.S.S. Buchanan when in U.S. service. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Re: NS SAVANNAH & USS Yorktown >> Unfortunately, the US Navy "repossessed" the Savannah a few years ago due to a lack of upkeep. The ship is currently moored in the James River storage fleet. I have heard rumors that the YORKTOWN is facing the same fate if her condition does not improve. I saw her in 95 and she was in fairly bad shape then. HUGO did some damage and those repairs plus normal upkeep put the association behind. << I was told last summer that the Navy had contacted Patriots Point about maintenance on the Yorktown, but there weren't any major problems. The hurricane did give the ship a very slight list, but if you weren't told (and even if you were) you wouldn't notice it. Of much more concern is the association's decision (against strenuous objection by some of its members) to replace the deteriorating wooden flight deck with a concrete one. Now a dead flat wooden deck isn't supposed to last fifty years with rainwater sitting on it without any way to drain, but as people who remember the disastrous results of replacing the battleship Texas' wooden decks with concrete forty-odd years ago can tell you, concrete is a horrible solution. It holds water, corrodes out the steel decking underneath, and lots of other bad things having to do with expansion. I happened to be on the Yorktown summer of '97 when they had removed a large section of the wooden deck forward and started pouring the concrete, and I took some pictures. It was interesting for one reason - you could see the structure of the steel deck, and note the metal tie-down that were welded to it in the 1950's. I think the decks were reinforced during the 1950's refit, then had the new tie downs and new wood decking put down, so virtually all of the flight deck is post-WW II. There is one possible exception aft, around the expansion joint behind the island, where a WW II tie down may have survived. Once again, if anyone cares, email me and I'll scan the photos and send them to you. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "joseph w. reyna" Subject: Re: A tale of two Savannahs) Tim, Some more fuel for the fire. It appears there is at least one additional, smaller scale, kit of the N.S. SAVANNAH, this one from the old Adams (reissued by UPC, also) company, in 1/457 scale. I understand that the RIngo (also issued by ITC) version is 1/352 scale, and the Revell version is 1/384 scale, so I'm not surprised about the similarity of sizes. It's revealing that this number of companies felt this first nuclear powered merchant vessel (by the Western world, at least - I'm not sure about the Soviets) was interesting enough to produce multiple scaled versions. I have found all three scale versions through various sources: kit collector swap meets, ebay - the auction web site, and the rec.models.scale newsgroup. Of the three, I note that the Adams/UPC version appears to bear a more slender, cruiser-like hullform than the other two, which may be more eye-pleasing, but not as accurate for a merchant vessel. The "reactor" on the Revell kit is a bit cheesy, but interesting, particularly if it is at all representative of the actual reactor plant used on this ship. And now for something completely different.......any word from Tamiya about their so called upcoming ESSEX-class carrier, or is this a subject for the "X-files"? Cheers. Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: portholes Can anyone enlighten with respect to USN porthole practice and rationale. As an example, destroyers built in the '30s initially had two rows of portholes forward. By Pearl Harbor, it seemed that the bottom row had been removed, and as the war went on, the top row also. Were the plated over, painted over, or just blacked out from the inside? Why? Thanks, Alan Lindstrom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: KoopmaFS@utrc.utc.com Subject: USS Marblehead Hi all, Just back to work from Thanksgiving (hope those of you that celebrate it had good ones), and going through the last several days of SMML. I'll hold back from the putty thread as most of my techniques have already been described. However, the Campbeltown thread has reminded me of something else. I'd very much like to build a 350th Marblehead (the Omaha class cruiser named after my hometown). I was born there, spent my entire life there up until about two years ago, and in about 1 month I'll be moving back there. I already have a fair amount of photo's of her, and what pic's I don't have, the town archives have a good collection to fill in the holes. What I DO need are a good set of hull lines and running gear details, possibly a scale deck plan-view, and scale profile. The photos should fill in the rest of the details. Anybody have these, or know where I might find them? Thanks in advance Fritz "get that turkey sandwich away from me..I feel bloated looking at it!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: top speeds I am reading "Battleship Sailor" (if you haven't read it, it is by a guy who was a radioman on the USS California from 1940 through the Pearl Harbor attack and very well written) and it mentions that during a speed trial in late 1940 the California only obtained a top speed of 17.4 knots due to marine growth on the hull (nominal top speed was 21 knots). I knew that the old US battleships were slow, but not this slow. As a practicle matter, what type of speed could a fully loaded North Carolina or South Datoka make after a few months at sea? Same question for the US heavy cruisers with a nominal top speed of 32 knots. Or how about a Fletcher? Thanks, Alan Lindstrom Danville, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: HMS Dido Hi Roger, Dido is pronounced "D "eye" doh... so you were right first time. The Didos were gorgeous ships.. handsome and sleek, and carried varied and interesting camouflage... except Dido herself... who, incidentally, we have never seen a pic of in anything other than a 2-tone grey.. however, I think that Alan Raven's new camouflage book may well remedy that! Cheers! Caroline White Ensign Models, E-mail xdt22@dial.pipex.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: BB Fuso: Anatomy of a ship book Hi Guys Well, we spoke to Conway Maritime Publishing today, and they are saying the book won't be out till February... any advances on February?? No explanation for the delays though.. Cheers Caroline Carter, White Ensign Models, U.K. Check out http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/jbhood/jbhood.htm for COOL models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Duane Fowler Subject: German FuMO 27 Radar I'm working on a couple of German WWII ships and have been looking at the radar. I can get most of them from different PE sets or make a reasonable facsimile on my own. However, I have no good drawings or photographs of the FuMO 27 and haven't seen that one in PE. It looks like an array of small disks on a bedspring. and it is often positioned above or below the FuMO 24/25. Does anyone have any good sources? I have several books on the German warships, but the best photos still look blurred. Any sources would be helpful. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Ian Ruscoe's WEM 1/350 HMS Sheffield build and scale effect Hi Guys, For another nice build of the WEM kit (this time in that 5-colour disruptive scheme), please check out the following updated pages...it's pretty image intensive and the new pics are close to the bottom. The model was built by Ian Ruscoe and, IMO quite adequately demonstrates how toning down actual camouflage colours can achieve a realistic scale effect. Some of you of course will have seen this model at Telford. http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/350sheff/350sheff.htm Cheers! Caroline Carter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Campbeltown follow-up Again many thanks to all of the infro on the Campbeltown. I received a message from Mr. Ernst-Bernhard Kayser concerning plans from a Duane Borchert. I have tried both e-mail and website, both messages return as not a valid address, I am still interested in finding plans for United States Naval guns on railway cars in WW1 Thank you Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Lindberg Olympia (#716-18) and the Pyro Maine (#C241-200) >> I've been putting together the old Lindberg USS Olympia. It's not going to win any contests, but it should look good in my study. That is, it would if I could do something with the warped superstructure. the aft end snug down fine, but the forward end is a full quarter inch of the deck. Super glue isn't strong enough. Liquid cement isn't strong enough. Any suggestions? I mean instead of telling me to go find a Revell Olympia (as if). << Marc, I also own the Lindberg Olympia (#716-18), still in the box. I have built the Revell Olympia (twice) and have another Revell Olympia (#H-367:198) still in a box. I also have the Pyro USS Maine (Kit # C241-200), still in a box. I know you said not to mention it, but the Revell kit was fun to build and modify. After reading your note, I took the Lindberg kit out and tried to dry fit the hull, decks and main cabin pieces together (parts 1 thru 4, 6 and 7) using rubber bands. The hull and decks can be made to fit. Be ready with a full tube of filler for the seams. However, the walls of the main cabin (pieces 6 &7) are molded essentially straight, yet the raised tabs on the deck require one to bend that fairly thick piece of plastic at a sharp angle several times. The only way I see that this can be done is to carefully score the inside of the main cabin walls to let you bend them at the correct spot. Measure carefully, and make sure your bends will let the main cabin roof to fit correctly! Perhaps you should glue from one end of the wall to the first bend, then let it dry. Then make your bend, and glue up to the next corner, and so on. I did the same with the Pyro Maine. This kit is the same as the Lindberg Olympia. The hull, main decks, cabin walls and turrets are almost the same. The hull has the small sponsons for the 10 - 6 pounders that the Olympia mounted but were not on the Maine. Several of the parts trees are the same. Even the directions are worded the similarly. As you may know, the cabin on the Maine ran the entire length of the deck, except for where the turret guns could swing around to fire across the centerline. It looks nothing like the cabin on the Olympia, which is more of a modern centrally arranged (citadel?) design. They even give you a totally ficticious twin gun turret to cover an unused smokestack hole in the middle of the boat deck floor! To make some attempt at accuracy, Pyro gives you 2 large sponsons to stick somewhere to the sides of the hull to serve as bases for the main turrets. You must choose the spot since the Olympia hull has no mounting tabs for these sponsons. Granted, they do state on the side of the box in broken English "The within model when assembled is similar to the "Maine", but not an identical replica." No fooling. Please tell us what methods end up working for you. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois (Basking in 6 days in a row of 60+ degF November weather, which is about 20 degF above normal. I put up the outdoor Christmas lights in shorts and shirt sleeves!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Wirguy@aol.com Subject: 1999 CALENDAR OF US NAVY SHIPS I'VE GOT A LITTLE DIFFERENT QUESTION.IT'S SHIP RELATED BUT NOT ABOUT MODELING. HAS ANYBODY FOUND A 1999 CALENDAR OF US NAVY SHIPS? I AM REALLY IN THE MARKET FOR ONE SO LET ME KNOW. THANKS LARRY LEWICKI WHEELING,WV -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume