Subject SMML3/12/98VOL382 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:44:42 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Concrete + Yorktown = Bad Idea 2: Admiralty Light Disruptive Colours 3: Re: top speeds 4: Blue vs. wood decks 5: Re: warped superstructure 6: old kits 7: Floquil Water Based Paints 8: Re: Warped Superstructure 9: Re: portholes 10: Re: top speeds 11: Photo Copyright 12: request for assistance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Good deal on Advance Force 2: Donald Cook 3: Old Fine Scale Article 4: trade 5: re:kits, books -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Concrete + Yorktown = Bad Idea No no no, concrete decks are not a solution for Yorktown. For one thing, they speed up corrosion of the steel. Better to use an inert, wood-like substance (there are fakeboards made of PVC now) or steel forms. Submarine Bowfin replaced her wooden deck with steel forms the same size and shape as the original wooden pieces and it was pretty successful. Ironically, Bowfin now has a storage area full of rotting wooden deck pieces that the Navy won't allow them to get rid of. Burl Burlingame -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Malcolm Batchelor" Subject: - Admiralty Light Disruptive Colours >> I'm just about at the painting stage on my Accurate Images Hunt class destroyer (Pretty nice model, BTW. It captures the look of a Hunt very well), and I'm all set to go but for the deck color. Does anyone know what the deck color would be for the Admiralty Light Disruptive Color scheme? I'm afraid I'm well versed on US camouflage measures, but not Royal Navy schemes. << Robert, According to the Almark/Peter Hodges RN Warship Camoflauge 1939 - 1945 book, decks in the "Light Disruptive Pattern" were painted G 20, other horizontal surfaces depnded on what colour the adjacent vertical surface was painted, deck fittings were generally painted one shade lighter than the adjacent colours. The masts and crows nest were painted white above the tops and camoflauge scheme below. If you need help on matching colours, check out the "Tips" section at the Warship site. Mr. Snyder and Short have some helpful info there. Hope this helps, Stuart Batchelor Norman, OK, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: top speeds I was reading Friedman's US Carriers over the weekend and was also a bit surprised at a passage that described the differences between the designed top speed and the 'realistic' top speed for the Ranger after a month or two at sea. While the Ranger attainted a little over 29 knots on trials, the top speed was reduced to about 23.5 knots due to marine growth. In designing the following Yorktowns, the Bureau of Engineering was pressed for a higher top speed so that even with a dirty hull, the wind over the deck could be kept up around 28-30 knots to be able to launch the heavier planes coming into service. For other capital ships and cruisers, I would assume the same conditions would affect the top speed in the same proportion (about 20% slower). South Dakota class ships had a trial speed of about 27 knots, so would operate at a top speed of about 22. From all this, it seems as if the speed attained on trials is purely for benchmarking. Most publications list a ships top speed as this trial speed, which to me is only half the story. It would be nice to see the speed listed twice- the top trial speed and the true operating top speed (similar to the designed and full-load displacements). Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Blue vs. wood decks I've seen two pieces of color footage from the later part of the war where an overhead view of a North Carolina class battleship shows it had unpainted wooden decks- not blue-stained. Does anyone know at what point in their careers either the North Carolina or the Washington had unpainted decks and a wartime paint scheme to confirm this? I've also seen color photos of some pretty worn down decks that look alot closer to the original wood color than blue stain. So perhaps people shouldn't be painting the decks blue on a WWII US warship so quickly. There seem to be some interesting exceptions that would make a model a little different. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: KoopmaFS@utrc.utc.com Subject: Re: warped superstructure >> That is, it would if I could do something with the warped superstructure. the aft end snug down fine, but the forward end is a full quarter inch of the deck. << Marc Try steaming the part. Get a big pot of water boiling on the stove, and turn it down to a simmer. Get some sort of clamping device that will allow you to hold the part over the pot without scalding your hands. Let the part steam away, checking its softness every so many seconds. When the plastic gets just soft enough that you can feel it flex with moderate force, quickly put it on the deck, and elastic or clamp it down. After it cools down, remove the clamps and check if it stays in position on its own. If it does, go ahead and glue away. If it doesn't repeat the process until it does. I've used this method with relatively good success on just about any kit that's had seriously warped "hull halves" like the Heller kits. BE WARNED... be careful not to over steam, unless your planning on building a model of one of the Bikini Atoll, ground zero, test subjects. Good luck- hope it works out. Fritz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: old kits Dear Editor: I have a suggestion for smmlers with these old kits such as NS Savannah or the Olympia. For a number of years a company called Kit Collector Clearing house produced a catalogue of all plastic kits.It also gave the value of them. I used to own a copy from 1987 but I got rid of it. It would list the years of company's exist and the serial numbers of their kits. The KCC was run by a minister in Oklahoma. It might have gone of business. I hope this is of help. Sincerely Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "ELBERT14" Subject: Floquil Water Based Paints I just picked up a couple of bottles of Floquil water based haze grey and navy blue paints. Since they discontinued their marine colors line I've been looking for a good substitution. The colors look pretty good, at least in the bottle. Has anyone used them? Any comments or advice would be appreciated. I was going to try airbrushing them with denatured alcohol, even though the instructions say thin with distilled water. I used denatured alcohol with the Gunze Sangyo line and got good results. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Warped Superstructure Looks like I've got adhesion! I negelected to mention that I had already applied paint and PE before attempting to affix the superstructure to the main deck. After some helpful advice, I scrapped the paint off the deck, removed the raised ribs on the deck. I even peeled the PE railings off the bridge. Then I applied a thick coat of Zap-a-Gap CA+ and wrapped a rubberband tightly around the forward superstructure. I let it sit for two days. I cut the rubberband off about 30 minutes ago and the seal is holding. Thanks for the helpful advice. BTW, Roger, I built the Lifelike/Lindberg Olympia and the Maine when I was in junior high (not telling how many decades ago). But I don't think I've ever seen the Revell Olympia. The drawings and descriptions of the model in the GM PE set have intrigued me. Also, the GM PE is for the Revell Olympia. I made do. Marc (Basking in low 70's down here in Texas) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: portholes Regarding those disappearing portholes on USN ships during WW2, they were plated over. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: top speeds According to Eric Hammel in _Carrier Clash_, NORTH CAROLINA was still good for 27 knots at the time of the Battle of the Eastern Solomons (August '42), after several months of sea time. Of course, that still left her appreciably slower than ENTERPRISE, which she was supposed to be screening.... PT boats in the South Pacific were particularly hard hit, and after several months in that theater, could not outrun IJN DDs. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins Subject: Photo Copyright Hi guys, Sorry to re-open the copyright issue, but I've got a query. In the near future(after Christmas I hope) I'll be starting a web page which will have among other things some modelling articles. Since I recently obtained at fairly cheap prices a stack of Warship Internationals with a some very nice colour photos, most of which are copyright by the various navies around the world. The question is are these photos public domain? I realize that photos taken either by individuals & publishers will have to get approval. But those taken by navies seem to be a grey area, taken with tax payer money, do they belong to the public? And yes, I know that my tax money only went to the RAN. All the best, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ok3wirebob@aol.com Subject: request for assistance Dear Sirs, While I'm reasonably new to ship modelling, I've been at scale modeling for some years now and am currently embarked on the project noted below and looking for assistance and help with a project involving the Vincennes. Information & Photos Sought - USS Vincennes (CA44) I am researching the USS Vincennes (CA44), lost to a Japanese night attack on 9 August 1942 at the Battle of Savo Island. My uncle, FM2 Ray Cosgrove, was one of the 332 men who went down with the ship. I am presently researching the exterior finish and outfitting of the Vincennes, in preparation to build a 350th scale Classic Warships model. I am looking for any and all assistance from any modeler/historian who is knowledgeable about the Vincennes. I am especially interested in the exterior camouflage which was apparently applied during the period immediately prior to her participation in the Guadalcanal operation. Of special interest would be any photos (of any quality/clarity) showing the painting pattern applied to either the Vincennes or her sister ships at this time. I am also looking for a copy of the book, published shortly thereafter by the family of one young officer lost aboard the ship, entitled "The Log of the Vincennes," by Lt. Donald Hugh Dorris, USNR; 1947, the Standard Printing Co; Louisville, Kentucky. Any assistance or guidance would be most appreciated. Thank you, Bob LaBouy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Good deal on Advance Force We have a number of our book "Advance Force - Pearl Harbor" that are slightly damaged (creases on the cover, a dent on the corner, that sort of thing) that we're making available to members of this newsgroup for $12, including priority-mail postage. (Outside the U.S., $15) Normal price is $22 plus postage. No credit cards, please - check, money order or (shudder!) cash. Information about this book is at: http://www.PacificHistory.com/PRODUCTSFILE/BOOKSFILE/AFPH.HTML Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Donald Cook Dear Editor: I have some news to share. For all SMMLers in the Delaware Valley and near by parts. The USN will be commissioning a new Arleigh Burke Class DDG between Dec 4-6,1998. It arrived at Penn's Landing section of Philadelphia Yeteseday It's name is the Donald Cook and will open for tour Dec5-6,1998.Here's a chance to see the real thing. Sincerely, Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Old Fine Scale Article If any kind soul out there has a copy of the November 1990 "Fine Scale Modeler", I would be happy to pay you for your efforts to make a photocopy of the article entitled "HMS Thunder Child vs. The Martians". Mike Alexandria, VA - USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ordinary joe Subject: trade following for trade: Monogram/Revell United States Cutty Sark Connstitution.. one of these started I forget which, also don't know if all of the one started is 100% there? I got it this way. Revell USS Mission Capistrano USS Pine Island USS Aaron Ward USS Forrest Sherman --------------------- Albatross [1:700 waterline] USS Gearing USS Sumner --------------------- planes --- Monogram 1:48 P-51D Mustang w/pe set SBD Dauntlass AT 6 Texan F4J II Phantom [ace] B-17 'Memphis Belle' --------------------- Lindberg Curtiss Jenny PT 17 Stearman -------------------- Most boxes are NOT shrinkwraped but kits are OK! Will trade ALL the above for 1:350 Tamiya USS Missouri or New Jersey and PE set. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: Re: kits, books From Reseach in Scale, 205 Maryland Ave, Paterson NJ 07503 BOOKS: CLASSIC WARSHIPS USS Louisville-$8.95, NAVAL INSTITUTE PRESS-Lexington class Carriers(CV-2)-$32.00, Soviet Warships of the Surface Fleet 1960-1983-$39.00 Warships of the USSR & Russia 1945-1995--$58.00 KITS: VIKING MODELS 1/350 USS TEXAS 1944--$160.00 1.350 USS NEW YORK --$160.00 1/350 SSN-21 SEAWOLF-$40.00 1/700 TEXAS-$65.00 1/700 NEW YORK--$65.00 REGIA MARINA 1/700 NEW! MMI GIUSEPPI GARIBALDI HELICOPTER & HARRIER CARRIER-$100.00 RN SCIRE SUBMARINE WW2-$25.00 RN DRIADE WW2 CORVETTE-$30.00 RN GIULIO CESARE BB $78.00 VITORIO VENETO-$80.00 COMMANDERS NEW AND FUTURE RELEASES 1/350 ALASKA-$255.00 1/350 DKM PRINZ EUGEN-$280.00 DKM GRAF SPEE-$199.00 HMS SHEFFIELD--$180.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume