Subject SMML08/12/98VOL388 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 23:05:59 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Turner Joy Gift Shop 2: Re: CV deck markings 3: Re: Depth charges 4: Re: Ms 32/14d 5: Re: MS 32/14D 6: Re: carrier deck names 7: Oriskany 8: Fletcher 32/14D 9: Re: Inclining... 10: Cleanline Hulls Dido 11: Re: Carrier deck markings 12: Re: Carrier deck names 13: Re: Depth charge color 14: Notice: Mr Foeth needs responds & Yellow Bismarck turrets & FuMo27 15: Aircraft Carrier Identifiers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Wanted - Lindberg U.S.S. Oregon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Torgeson Roger A Subject: Turner Joy Gift Shop Greg, I live about 15 minuets from the Turner Joy, I can make a run to the gift shop for you, after work one day this week if you let me know what you want. You can send the list to my work e-mail address, or my home address rtorgeson @web-o.net (or both if you enjoy typing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: CV deck markings That pre-war reddish brown on US carrier flight decks wasn't paint, it was mahogany stain, and that will be one of the colors included in our USN paint chip set #2. John (Mr. Chips) Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Depth charges From the photos I've seen, they were painted to match the camo; at a minimum, they had their upper side painted Deck Blue. John (Mr. Chips) Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Ms 32/14d That's one of the angular "dazzle" camo patterns that the USN used. You should probably order a copy of Jeff's book if you're going to be modeling USN FLETCHERs. It does not cost all that much, and I am sure you can get it mail order from Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies in the US, or the Carters at WEM in the UK--both businesses being top notch. John (Mr. Chips) Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Re: MS 32/14D Measure 32 refers to camouflage pattern, here a "dazzle" using three colors(can't remember which ones right now - I think Navy Blue, Ocean Gray and Haze Gray, but don't quote me). The 14D refers to the design the colors were painted in - there were several different "pattersn" the ships were painted in - I think the D indicates that it was a destroyer design. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Re: carrier deck names Hornet was painted into Measure 12 (wartime camouflage - same as Yorktown carried at this time) on completion, I don't think her deck was ever given the mahogany stain (not paint) with yellow letters that all older carriers had. Wasp had the mahogany deck and stripes but I don't recall seeing the letters either. I'll check if you need to know, as I have some "as commissioned" photos that I know show that part of the deck. If they painted the stripes, I would think they would have done the letters too. Does anyone have confirmation that the letters were yellow, as well as the stripes? I've always assumed they were, but no basis for that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Oriskany It's a new Jim Shirley kit - I saw one in Austin. Pretty nice resin waterline model of a modernized Essex. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Jeff Herne Subject: Fletcher 32/14D >> According to Jeff Herne's Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers of WWII, The William D. Porter DD 579 wore MS 32/14D. >> What does this mean to a layman? I have a Tamiya Fletcher in the closet, and thanks to Bob I'll most likely finish it as the WDP. Do I need to make any modifications to the kit? << MS 32/14D refers to Measure, 32, which is a medium pattern system, consisting of 5-L Light Gray, 5-O Ocean gray, and Dull Black. Deck surfaces would be 20-B Deck blue with 5-O Ocean gray. The '14' refers to the design pattern, and 'D' denotes destroyer. To a layman, my best advice is this: buy the book... If you're planning on doing a 1943-44 Fletcher from the Tamiya kit, be prepared to do some converting. The Tamiya kit represents an early-war, round-bridge, '42 fit. Since I don't have the kit, or my book in front of me (I'm at the office), you'll need twin 40mm in each of the forward tubs, twin 40mm amidships between the stacks, a twin 40mm on the aft deckhouse between turret 3&4, an SC & SG radar array, and probably Mk.22 height finding radar on the FCD. You'll have to refer to pics to determine if she carried twin 20mm or singles amidships and how many she carried on the fantail...some carried two, others carried three. Just be thankful she didn't get an emergency AA fit.... :-) If you need any other help, drop me a note and I'll be glad to help. Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Lars Orloff" Subject: Re: Inclining... Inclining experiments are done mainly to determine a ship's "righting arm." The righting arm, put simply, is the force exerted by the ship to "right" itself when subjected to the rolling motion resulting from waves. "Rolling" is the motion of a ship about its longitudinal axis (parallel to the keel). When a ship rides a wave approaching it from the port side, it rolls to starboard. When a person makes a right turn in his/her car, the car "rolls" to the left. It's the same concept. The ship's righting arm is the amount of force available to the ship to right itself for a given degree of roll. This is dependent on the distribution of weight from the keel to the superstructure. A ship that is extremely top-heavy will not have as powerful a righting ability as does a ship that is not top-heavy. Thus, the top-heavy ship does not have as great a righting arm for any given degree of roll. In an inclining experiment, a ship is gradually "rolled" to one side over a period of several hours (sometimes days dependent on the size of the ship). Engineers and naval architects are compiling, among other things, righting arm information for various degrees of roll. This information is used to determine several components of a ship's stability, including how much roll the ship can withstand before capsizing given a specific weight load and distribution. I witnessed an inclining experiment on the Coast Guard's class of non-capsizeable patrol boats. After several hours of increasing the degree of roll, the boat capsized and rolled upright again. The boats in this class always have a POSITIVE righting arm. A ship will capsize at the degree of roll for which the righting arm is negative. Lars R. H. Orloff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Bob Pearson Subject: Cleanline Hulls Dido Hi all, Looking through the November 1994 FSM I came across an ad from Cleanline Hulls of Calgary, Alberta. Among other items, they offer a 58" fibreglass hull for a Dido Class 'Destroyer'. Has anyone had any experience with this company? Is it still in business? Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Carrier deck markings Thank You for your replies on the deck markings. Sincerely Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: carrier deck names The only missing one I can be sure of is for the Ranger and that was already answered. Personally, I couldn't find any photos with the Wasp letters, so I'll take the other members' opinions as plausible. I still have doubts about the Hornet. There is a low-angle bow quarter shot of Hornet in the book Flattops and Fledglings that barely shows the letters. The individual letters can't be read, but there appear to be four of them, so I lean toward HRNT. The interesting thing about these letters was that their location doesn't seem to be standardized for any of the ships wearing them. Some were on the forward end of the flight deck, some on the aft end, and some in the vicinity of one of the elevators. I don't think any had them at both ends, but I could be wrong. If anyone has any input on how the locatios were determined, I'd be interested in hearing. I'd also like to know if they were all white or yellow on occasion. Have fun, Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: Depth charge color This is only an opinion. Since depth charges are a disposable item and an explosive, my guess is that they were painted in the prevailing color of the standard camouflage for the period while at the factory. For example, early war ash cans would have been dark gray; late war-navy blue; and mid war (during the dazzle phase)- haze gray. As an explosive, they would have been on-loaded or off-loaded on a regular basis for maintenance or safety reasons, especially during overhauls or repairs and stateside visits. The ship's captain had the last word on how things were painted and I suppose there were some who ordered them painted top match, but I can't imagine why. To paint them they would have had to have been removed from the racks, painted and left long enough for the oil-based paint to dry. Besides that, who would want to take a chance that they might be stuck in the racks due to tacky paint sticking to the rails or having paint slopped into the setting mechanisms. Like I said, it's only an opinion, but I'll bet I'm close. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Evert-Jan Foeth" Subject: Notice: Mr Foeth needs responds & Yellow Bismarck turrets & FuMo27 Due to some brotherly intervention all my mail has been formatted, and I have been off-line for about 3 weeks. I lost some recent mail, concerning SMML subscribers, so could the following persons please contact me: David Krakow: I need your address to send the drawings to Mr Veigele: For the publisher of your book Kurt Greiner: For some small Scharnhorst drawings The person I promised to find drawings of Dutch ships, which I found. Some new news on the Bismarck turrets: I had some talks with a German Bismarck expert, Markus von Beek, who spoke to a Bismarck survivor, mr Statz in 1992, who claimed that the turrets were indeed painted yellow, and the paint was washed off of the 15cm turrets immediately, and even slightly of the 38cm A-turret For Duane Fowler; I have drawings of a 1:100 Tirpitz with a Fumo 27 on it. Need a scan? Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Steve Gustafson Subject: Aircraft Carrier Identifiers Greg, While I don't have the official answer to your question, my guess is that these other ships didn't have identifying letters painted on their decks because they didn't have a twin ship in commission. From the air Lexington and Saratoga were identical, so were Enterprise and Yorktown. Ranger and Langley couldn't possibly be confused with any other carriers and Hornet, though similar to Enterprise and Yorktown, was commissioned when all identification was hidden for security reasons. Hope I'm close to the truth of the matter, Steve Gustafson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Wanted - Lindberg U.S.S. Oregon Hi folks - I'm looking for the Lindberg USS Oregon kit (1/225 I think) - Local hobby shop tells me they are curently not in production - Anybody have one they are willing to part with for a reasonable price? - opened OK, but unbuilt - let me know what the going price is.... Thanks Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume