Subject SMML15/12/98VOL395 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:02:13 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MODELLERS INDEX 1: Deutschland (Lutzow) 2: Re: Using Credit cards on the net 3: RN Ships 4: Re: That FLETCHER Project 5: Re: Inclining 6: Re: Warning - Foreign money 7: Overhauling old Qeen Elizabeth kit. 8: Re: Admirable class minesweepers 9: Re: Fletcher build, the purpose Pt 1 & 2 10: Re: USS Warrington 11: The Fletcher-Revolution 12: That Fletcher thing ... 13: Re: USS Warrington 14: Re: Foreign Money 15: Re: Fletcher build at IPMS Nationals 16: Re: Fletchers at Nationals 17: Bofors 40mm in 1/350 scale 18: Cagemasted Battleships 19: Hull lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Camouflage patterns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MODELLERS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) From: "msyoung" Subject: Deutschland (Lutzow) I was wondering if anyone had any suggested sources of information on the pocket battleship Duetschland? After the good discussion on Graf Spee deck colors I couldn't resist extending it to one of the sister ships. I would like to model Deutshland in an early prewar mode and was wondering in particular what colors other modelers used for deck and hull paint on early German warships. Has anyone built or modified the Fujimi 1/700 kit or the Heller 1/400 kit? The beam seems narrow on the Heller kit and I wondered if anyone had noticed that also? Thanks Mike Young Springfield, Missouri ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Using Credit cards on the net I ordered a HMS Bluebell kit from WEM and Carolyn had a great idea to order with security. She suggested to send your credit card numbers in three different emails 10 to 30 min. apart. This way no one intercepting email would have no way of putting the numbers together in the correct sequence. It made sense to me anyway. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Note from Shane: Another way is to ring thru your details & then order via email. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3) From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com Subject: RN Ships Hello everybody, I have been visiting the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships Online at: http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/ , it's very useful, but I also need to know about Royal Navy ships. Does there exist a web site such as DANFS? Regards, Roberto. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: That FLETCHER Project Rusty, et al: I don't believe that Mike's original idea was to create an artificial situation per se, but rather to encourage the building of a large group of the same vessel type that would encourage a class split. The rationale for a class split was that it would a) be eye-catching, and perhaps encourage both other modelers to join the shipbuilding ranks, and attract the attention of manufacturers who might see that, yes Virginia, there is a market out there, that b) would result in an apple-vs-apple competition, and that c) it would be fun for us, the builders. I personally have no quarrel with a group entry, but it does beg the question as to who takes home the prize in the event one is won. I'll let Mike know he's been tapped as the local responsible for Y2K in Dallas (assuming that computers don't end the world as we know it, and we can get there). John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Inclining IIRC from my years serving in BAINBRIDGE, her maximum safe roll was calculated to be 55 degrees; more than that, and it was a toss-up as to whether she'd recover. The worst rolling I ever experienced aboard her was in a South China Sea typhoon, when we were rolling (as indicated on the repeaters on the after missile fire control computers) 37-1/2 degrees, i.e., a 75-degree arc. Sharp, snappy rolls, very uncomfortable, and threw one guy out of his second-tier bunk and broke his leg. That was the storm in which, the next morning, we watched ENTERPRISE taking white over the flight deck at the bow; VERY impressive. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: Warning - Foreign money Minadmiral@aol.com wrote >> Just a gentle WARNING.Do not send cash,currency ,money,or such overseas from the US.The U.S.Post Orifice informs me that this is illegal << I stand corrected - partially, I think. My PO says it is against postal "rules". This is in the "big book" they have, not in the summary booklet that they gave me a year ago. So it is probably best not to attempt it. It worked fine for me once, but ignorance is bliss! However, they tell me that an International Postal Money Order is a very good way to transfer funds for purchasing items. They can be cashed in any post office. I would think the sender should check with the seller about the correct amount. The seller can check the local post office to see how much the money order should be in order to end up with the proper cash in the foreign currency. For security the money order can be sent registered mail. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7) From: "Colm O'Leary" Subject: Overhauling old Qeen Elizabeth kit. On a trip to London last week I came across a made up kit of the Airfix 1/600 HMS Queen Elizabeth. It seems to be complete but the painting leaves a lot to be desired. (looks like it was done with a yard brush!!!) Also, some of the parts are slightly misalingned but since this kit seems to me almost impossible to get I think it's worth the trouble. What I'm wondering is what is the best way of dismantelling these parts with the least amount of damage? Has anyone sucessfully done this sort of thing? Is there a way of removing and re-using the decals? ANY help at all will be most apreciated... CJ Note from Shane: This would seem to be the Airfix HMS Warspite kit, which should be readily available in kit form, if you don't want to attempt a reconstruction. You could try Pacific front, WEM etc or any hobby shop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 8) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Re: Admirable class minesweepers John There is a section on the Admirables in HT Lenton's American Gunboats and Minesweepers, published by Macdonald and Janes in the WW2 Fact Files series. It contains a brief technical spec, class description and brief notes about the building dates, hull numbers and fates of the individual vessels. There are also photographs of several of the class. Hope this is of assistance. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Fletcher build, the purpose Pt 1 & 2 >> First, we will have our goal of a split category if a large number of Fletchers for instance, shows up. But in order to create a new and permanent category this will have to occur for several years before I would endorse or suggest the change. In the end it's still up to the E-Board and Contest committee. It also works the opposite way. Categories will be shut down if a sufficient number of entries don't show up on a yearly basis. The point I'm making here is once you create this "false" category you had better consistently enter the numbers needed to keep it on the Nationals category list or it will be removed. << Rusty, My understanding of the purpose of this enterprise is not to create a perpetual "false category", but to have enough entries to cause ("force" sounds so adversarial) an extra category due to models on the table at the time the entries are closed and judging begins. I understand this (Fletchers) to only be a factor for the 1999 convention. Next year, since, as you say, a requisite number of years hasn't gone by to have created a permanent category, the Fletcher thing is forgotten. Who knows, maybe a cluster of Essex class CVs shows up, and maybe not. This is to cause a natural split, so I would still expect a healthy number of 1/700 ships of cruiser size and below (other nationalities and subjects besides Fletchers). I see it as harmless fun, in trying to show non-ship modelers the range of varieties that can come from a base type, much as the number of Bf-109G variants that are frequently shown. And the difference I see from a "Group Entry" that you have been advocating, is that each of our ships is a separate entity for judging, and Snyder, McKeller & Heinbaugh, et al, get separate trophies, not a single entry with "Builder = SMML". I see this a fun event, not any sort of a mean-spirited prank perpetuated against the IPMS USA organization. Best regards, Rick Heinbaugh Seattle, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 10) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: USS Warrington >> I have just completed USS Warrington a Somers class prewar DD, I was taken by the name as I live less that 15miles from the town of that name in Cheshire. Does anybody know why a US destroyer came by this name is it a place in the US or person or what? << Malcolm, I am nearly certain that USS Warrington was named for Lewis Warrington, one of the USA's younger naval commanding officers during the unpleasantness of 1812-15 with Great Britain. After having served as a LT on schooner Vixen, brig Siren and frigates Essex & Congress, he was made Master Commandant of the new ship-sloop Peacock, (20 32lb carronades). Peacock distignuished herself with a victory over the brig-sloop Epervier (18 carronades) and 15 or so merchant prizes and an unfortunate meeting with the Honourable East Indies Co brig Nautilus, just after peace had broken out. He was part of the group of young officers (Decatur, Hull, Bainbridge, Stewart, MacDonough, Porter, et al,) from that war, who eventually lead the Navy into the 1850s, not necessarily progressively. Warrington died in 1851, after having assisted in the establishment of the U S Naval Academy and supporting John Dahlgren in his development of improved naval artillery. Certain reference would be in the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS), but my set is still in storage. Rick Heinbaugh Seattle, WA, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11) From: Jeff Herne Subject: The Fletcher-Revolution Hi gang, A post was made regarding the ethics or purpose of our 1/700 Fletcher build. I attended the Nationals in 1998, and I can say, aside from Derek Brown's USS Texas and Phil Toy's USS California (obvious choices), there was a lot of rumbling about many of the choices made by the ship judges. The purpose of swamping the category is NOT to have the category be a permanent fixture in IPMS contests, but rather, to force the judges to give the same attention to us (the ship modelers) as they do to the aircraft and armor guys. By having 20 or 30 Fletchers there, we're going to force the judges into knowing the subject, not just picking something that looks good to them. I actually overheard a 1998 Nationals judge bypass a model because he said, "they never painted them like that". This was obviously not a ship person, because the ship WAS correctly painted in a Revised Measure 12 pattern. BTW, it wasn't mine, I have no clue who actually built it, but it did not place, and should have. Point is, I have seen P-51s broken out, Me-109s broken out, Tigers, Panthers and Shermans broken out. I have also seen "experten" eliminate a P-51 because the cockpit was the wrong shade of interior green. I have seen Shermans eliminated because of track tension. These are not modeling related inaccuracies, they're historical interpretations. But somebody KNEW about track tension, somebody KNEW about interior green, and it became a deciding factor. It sure as hell beats (another NATS judge quote), "this one looks OK to me..." That's my opinion, so if you don't like it, stow it... I'm bringing 3 Fletchers to the 1999 NATs, and the next year, maybe I will bring nothing but battleships... Jeff Herne Accurate Image Models Warship Perspectives Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner in WWII SMML Archivist, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 12) From: Ed Grune Subject: That Fletcher thing ... Hello all: I went into my kit stash and took out my 1/700 Fletchers to see where I'd begin -- Matchbox (PK-633). Round Bridge, molded in Navy Blue & Grey. Left & right hull halves. Waterline only. Minimal detail on bulkheads, stacks, and guns. A couple of enormous sink marks on the 5-inch guns. IMO - a real challenge to do. Skywave (SW-500) Round Bridge, molded in grey. Waterline only, with below lower hull half available in drydock kit. Hull & mid O-1 structure molded as one. Fwd and aft superstructure molded separately. No detail on bulkheads. Parts detail better than Matchbox, IMO - a step above Matchbox. Tamiya (902) Round Bridge, molded in dark grey. Waterline only. Hull & mid O-1 structure molded as one. Fwd & aft superstructure molded separately. Several different bridge roof options. Finer detail in small pices than either of the above. The five-inchers need some work. Skywave/Pitroad Callaghan (W-1) Round Bridge, Square Bridge, and Post-war enclosed bridge options. Molded in grey. Waterline, but lower hull is available separately. Hull & mid-O-1 structure molded as one. Fwd and aft superstructure molded separately. No detail on bulkheads. Additional detail on decks which is missing on earlier Skywave effort. Additional detail parts, with finerfeatures. IMO - the pick of the styrene Now the floor is open to reviews of the resin products, detail products, and rebutals. Ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 13) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Warrington Concerning the persons name behind the USS Warrington. The ship is named after Lewis Warrington who lived from 1782-1851. He joined in 1800 and served until his death. Craig Bennett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 14) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: Re: Foreign Money $20? Wow!! A draft is a formal document, maybe a money order from a bank or the USPS will be a lot cheaper. You might also check with your supplier. In most countries, the US$ is welcome. On the other hand, if you are buying a catalogue, the money you are paying won't buy the soap needed to launder money. When I am in the States I usually make a point of bringing back a few US$1 bills and US postage stamps for SASEs. Of course, you risk everything by sending cash, but the first time it happens to me I'll be out $3 or so. However, I will still be ahead of the service charges the banks want for money orders. Hope that doesn't make me a fugitive from US justice. Then there is Uncle Visa if you trust your supplier. Ron in Victoria BC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 15) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Fletcher build at IPMS Nationals Rusty wrote: >> There have been a lot of suggestions for this Nationals build. I've given one myself. Unfortunately my computer deleted the issue of SMML that had the original suggestion for the build. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original intent to create a category split with the ultimate goal to create a new permanent category in ships? Someone fill me in and set me straight before I comment further. << I don't think anyone suggested that a permanent category or a 'false' category be created. The way I took it, the goal was simply to have enough ships of a type submitted to force a category split, which has probably never happened for ships before. Splits are very common in the aircraft and armor categories from what I've heard. The contest official/judges see that there are just too many entries in a specific category to judge, so it is broken into two or more categories. I think the whole 1/700 Fletcher idea was to just generate more interest in the ships categories in general. Larry Ouellette Quincy, Massachusetts, USA Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U. S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum http://www.uss-salem.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Fletchers at Nationals Hi, I talked to Mike Davis this evening, and he says he doesn't see the building of 1/700 Fletchers at the 1999 Nationals as a permanent thing at all; it's just for the '99 Nationals. The building of 1/700 Essexes is just for the 2000 Nationals in Dallas, and after that it could be whatever people wanted to do, such as 1/700 Japanese destroyers for 2001. If the judges think there are enough Fletchers, Essexes, or whatever for a separate ship category (such as 1/48 scale P-51's), that's fine with him. I think he sees this as a matter of individual entries, though, not as a single group entry. Seems like a good idea.... Cheers, Art Nicholson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 17) From: "Cathy Herron" Subject: Bofors 40mm in 1/350 scale Can annybody recommend a suitable line or manufactor for my tamiya kit (44-45'). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 18) From: Marc Flake Subject: Cagemasted Battleships I'm getting the urge to build an 1/700 cagemasted battleship. Anyone out there in SMML land who has done this in 1/700? I've heard that Classic Warships doesn't make theirs anymore. Does anyone else make them? Also, just curious, if you have made one of these beauties, how does one roll up the flared cagemasts? Marc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 19) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: Hull lines I have a copy of The Floating Drydock's hull lines for the CIMARRON-class fleet oilers .... unfortunately, I have no idea how to read them. I had planned on using them to fabricate a styrene plastic hull for a model of USS KASKASKIA (AO-27), but I don't know what the numbers mean on the contour lines. I thought initially the plans would show the frame numbers or something, but since these contours are numbered fractionally from 0 to 10 (stern to bow, respectively), that's obviously not the case. Any help will be appreciated. Also, has anyone out there ever scratchbuilt a hull in 1:192 from styrene in this manner? I could use some tips. Thanks, Doug Bauer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Camouflage patterns I was interested to read that some people are unaware of which camouflage patterns were used on which Fletcher class destroyers. In Warship Perspectives on the Fletcher,Gearing and Sumner class destroyers there are a large number of dazzle patterns illustrated, and some of these are in colour. In fact, only a handful of vessels are without a camouflage reference. Also on the question of camouflage; on the soon to be published Warship Perspectives on the Atlanta Class Cruisers there are camouflage patterns and /or data for every ship of the class that served in the War. Titles in the Warship Perspectives series are available from hobby shops and book shops. In case of difficulty please write to W R PRESS at PO BOX 767 LYNBROOK NY 11563 NY or call 1-516-887-0072 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume