Subject SMML17/12/98VOL397 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:13:04 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: SMML15/12/98Vol395 2: Re: Money conversion site 3: Re: Proxy entries 4: Cunard Funnel Color 5: removing paint.... 6: Re: Cleaning up the RMS Queen Elizabeth & judging 7: Re: cage masts 8: Re: Re: Cash v. Credit cards 9: Re: RMS Queen Elizabeth 10: Drydocking an Airfix RMS Queen Elizabeth 11: Re: Inclining 12: Gulfstream German subs and 1/32 photo etch 13: Re: Cash v. Credit cards 14: Sail dimensions of USS Thresher/Permit class SSN's 15: HMS Leeds 16: USS Aaron Ward 17: Re: Town-Class - Leeds, Lewes & Ludlow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Naval History Magazine 2/99 2: Dragon/Revell Invincible & update set from WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML15/12/98Vol395 I'm building the USS Indianapolis 43-45 1/1350. The kit comes with the deck wood planking in tooled on it. Does anyone know if it still had wood then. The color directions just said deck blue. Also was their wood decking behind the number two turret........ Thanks Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Money conversion site With all this talk about sending money overseas, I found a site that will convert any country's denomination to US dollars and visa versa. The Universal Currency Converter(tm) at: http://www.xe.net/currency/. Once you get an accurate figure you can run down to the post office and get an international postal money order. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Proxy entries >> I would like to participate in the Fletcher thing. However there is no way I will be able to go to Orlando. Do I have to be present to enter my models? << You don't have to be present to enter your models or win awards. Just enter as a "proxy" entrant. As I recall, there is a space on the IPMS entry form for proxy entries as well as pricing. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Cal Probasco" Subject: Cunard Funnel Color Does anyone have a formula to reasonably match the funnel color on Cunard liners? The color specified by Gunze is its Shine Red. This color is a intense red, lacking the orange tones present in many paintings and photos. Revell also specifies a strong red. Thanks for your help Note from Shane: You could try the Official Titanic model page at: http://titanic-model.com/ . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: removing paint.... This came up in a thread about renovating an RMS QE model, but as an aside, if anyone needs to strip a paint job, I can thoroughly recommend oven cleaner (well, it works for Tamiya acrylics, anyway). Put on some washing up gloves and do this in the bath!! Spray the cleaner on, and simply hose it off after a minute or so (depending on the brand). The advantage of this is that it does not require much abrasive contact with the plastic....... your engraved decks etc should be intact. I have stripped a 1/350 Missouri kit TWICE in this fashion with no ill-effects. James Morley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re: Cleaning up the RMS Queen Elizabeth & judging One method of removing paint and often stubborn glue on plastic models and some other mediums is oven cleaner. Just place you kit in a pan or "drydock" made out of tin foil, and spray the oven cleaner on it and let it sit. Depending on the paint type and glue used, it may take 1/2 hour to 2 or 3 before the paint will come off, and the glue will lose its grip. Please do this either outside or in a very open area, use rubber gloves and most of all eye protection. As for judging, they are human, and having been one at IPMS Regionals and other contests, it is fun, hard, and a great learning experience. Have I had a problem with a judge, yes. The category was dare I say aircraft. The judge said my aircraft was marked wrong, and the colors were off, and the detail was incorrect. I could have accepted this except the aircraft was one I flew in the Marines for over one year almost daily, I had the photos of the aircraft, and knew how the damn thing was painted and what it looked like in squadron service. I think anybody who volunteers as a judge, like 99% of all volunteers tries their best, tries to be impartial, and hopefully has no ax to grind. There is and will always be the 1%. Now lets get those Fletchers tothe Nats. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: cage masts Marc, I just recently (Monday) finished the Waterline 1/700 Maryland as she appeared at Pearl Harbor. The kit came with photo-etched cage masts and I was very impressed with the way they look completed. I also had some consternation over rolling up the masts correctly but it was actually much easier than I thought. Basically, you want to use a small cylindrical object to roll the mast around to get a nice tubular shape. The trick is that the masts are more cone shaped than straight cylinders. I used the handle of a paintbrush that (very conveniently) was of varying diameters along its length. The small end of the brush was about the same size as the top of the cage mast and the middle of the brush was thicker to match the bottom of the mast. I first rolled the whole cagemast around about 75% of the way so it looked like a 'C' from above. Then I worked from top to bottom of the mast, rolling it around the rest of the way along the brush handle where the diameter would match that needed to get the correct cone shape. The photoetch metal (it wasn't brass, but a silver metal) is flexible yet quite resiliant, so I had to overcompensate when rolling so that the two edges overlapped at first, but spung back to the correct position when pressure was released. I bit of CA along the seam and there it was! Took about 2-3 minutes for each- very painless. I also painted both sides of the mast before rolling it up and touched up the outside after it was completed. Like I said before, the end result is very impressive! Waveline makes both the Maryland and the West Virginia in their 1941 configuration. You could probably also make the Colorado with little modification. I recommend these kits. They are very well molded and detailed and come out nice even with a straight out-of-box build. I ordered mine from Hobbylink Japan for about $90 (take advantage of the weak yen!). Classic Warships also has photo-etch 'Universal Cage Masts' for $6, but as you mentioned, they may be out of production. I don't know of any other cage masted ships in 1/700. Hope this helps you satisfy that urge... Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Norman Samish Subject: Re: Cash v. Credit cards >> 1) As a "survivor" of a on-line credit card rip-off (as a result of an Amazon order, no less), I have learned the hard way that these things can occur. My solution? Phone your supplier (if you know and trust them), give them your credit card number(s) for their file, then order by e-mail whenever the spirit, and budget, moves you. I have this arrangement with several vendors. << Geez, I order stuff all the time on the internet. What happened on your credit card rip-off? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jim Burt" Subject: Re: RMS Queen Elizabeth Hi all, Speaking of the Queen Elizabeth, that I myself have searched for over the net for months now, does anyone have any idea who may have one? I've seen some pictures of her, all I did was email Caroline at White Ensign, & she sent me some of Jim's pics of the model. There are some links that I know of over the former maritime minuratures homepage, that may get some, but no luck at all. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. regards, Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Drydocking an Airfix RMS Queen Elizabeth >> On a trip to London last week I came across a made up kit of the Airfix 1/600 RMS Queen Elizabeth. It seems to be complete but the painting leaves a lot to be desired. (looks like it was done with a yard brush!!!) << There's a paste called "Modelstrip" that is very easy to use and should be easily available from most model shops - I think even Beatties have them. Stir well in case the paste has separated. This paste contains nasty substances, so wear rubber gloves and eye protection when using it. Apply the paste to painted surfaces coating about a couple of mms thick, put the parts in an airtight plastic bag, try to get out air from the bag and seal it. Leave overnight and then wash it off with an old toothbrush. It is very efficient in removing even old, stubborn paint, and I have yet to have a plastic part damaged - even clear canopies. That is no substitute for not trying on your own piece of plastic though. In some cases, it may be necessary to apply a second coat for particularly stubborn paint. >> What I'm wondering is what is the best way of dismantelling these parts with the least amount of damage? << If the kit has been assembled with tube glue you're in luck. Tube glue gets brittle with age, and quite often you can prise the pieces apart if you cut the join gently at first and then bending carefully. Sometimes you can just bend the join open if the plastic is thin. Sand the rough joins smooth and you've got yourself a new kit. If a whole tube of glue has been used to glue the davits to the deck, you may have to just cut them off and scratchbuild or be prepared to do a lot of repair work. >> Is there a way of removing and re-using the decals? << Not as far as I know. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Re: Inclining Norman Samish, PCs had a design figure of a 110 degree roll. That of course was under ideal conditions. I don't think any of the ships challenged that criterion. One has to consider a ship loaded and with fluids in tanks not completely filled and objects that can slide across decks and can be torn loose from mountings. They all affect a ship's stability. I doubt one in operation could have survived a 110 degree roll. PC clinometers were graded to 50-60 degrees. The ships heeled that much when they were launched. On many occasions during operations the needles were pegged against their detents. Despite frequent large rolls no PC capsized during the war. Because of the low freeboard on a PC (about 4' aft and 8' forward) even with a 30 degree roll in any reasonable sea they took water over the decks. Yes, the engines were reciprocating ( two diesels). Exhausts ports were slightly above the water line on each side. Because of that the ships were called "side burners." On numerous occasions, when the ships heeled over, water covered the exhaust ports and affected engine operation. You are right. PCs were remarkable ships in many ways. Sadly, not one is known to exist in restorable condition. They have been lost to history. A few models have been made of them, the book about PCs has engineering drawings, and large plans are available for interested modelers. Bill Veigele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Torgeson Roger A Subject: Gulfstream German subs and 1/32 photo etch Who has the old Gulfstream German type VII and IX sub kits, can they still be purchased. A few years back there was a company that manufactured a 1/32nd scale photo etch set for / or could be used on, the Lindberg 1/32 PT Boat. Any one remember who this was , and are they still in business -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Re: Cash v. Credit cardsS SMML wrote: From: Hess1962@aol.com >> As a "survivor" of a on-line credit card rip-off (as a result of an Amazon order, no less), I have learned the hard way that these things can occur. My solution? Phone your supplier (if you know and trust them), give them your credit card number(s) for their file, then order by email whenever the spirit, and budget, moves you. I have this >arrangement with several vendors. Cash by mail? I've done it, most successfully, with a certain resin ship maker in the >U.K.... to the satisfaction of both parties! Just seal your envelope well. Perhaps the day will come when internet purchasing is 100% safe...but it ain't here >yet! << Actually handing your credit card to a waiter is potentially riskier. Anyway, the safest method to pay over the internet is the i-check which is gaining popularity but IBM is going to unveil a new system for credit card which will soon make all secure servers obsolete and the purchase online safer. Anyway, as it is today, purchasing something over the internet is still safer than giving your credit card to a waiter or any store employee. Paolo Pizzi http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "mike thrupp" Subject: Sail dimensions of USS Thresher/Permit class SSN's I am building a 1:72nd vac-form kit of the USS THRESHER/PERMIT class of nuclear submarine. The kit comes with plans drawn by by Edward H. Wiswesswer. After eyeballing some photographs of the class, I have some doubts as to the dimensions of the sail as drawn on the plans, as the actual sail appears to at least as tall as it is long, even allowing for perspective. The plans show the sail to be noticeably longer (horizontal) than taller (vertical). Could anyone outthere please let me know what the dimensions are. Thanks Mike Thrupp, Birmingham , England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ron or Julie Hillsden Subject: HMS Leeds John Try to lay hands on "Destroyers for Great Britain" ISBN 0-87021-782-8, 1988 by Arnold Hague (Naval Institute Press in US, Bath Press in UK). This is a 112 page history of the Town class, 120 photos. An excellent reference. Lewes, Leeds and Ludlow were the oddities in the class. Lewes was the only 4 stacker to mount 3"/50's, a suit she shared with the 2 three stackers Leeds and Ludlow. These were in the first 6 of the class built by the USN, and had a different stern, and 3 shafts driven by turbines with a cruise turbine on the centre shaft. (Lewes was geared, the other two direct drive!!) These ships were slightly longer but lighter than the other Towns (315'6"x31'2'x11' and 1020/1445t). They were all built with 3"/50x4 (A, Beam and X) rather than the usual 4", a 3"/23 and 4xtriple 21"TT. In 1942 Leeds and Ludlow lost the A 3"50 and the TT and gained 2 single 20mm in bandstands aft and a pair of single 2 pdrs on the A mount. Another 3 single 20mm were added later. Nether carried ASW as they were deployed on East Coast UK covoys. Toward the end of the war, Ludlow lost the beam 3"/50. The A mount became a 12pdr HA and the 2 pdrs moved from A to the beam. Lewes retained her depth charges and obtained the 2 single 2 pdrs at A, but those may be the only changes. She didn't see a lot of escort work (about 10 months). She got a late start because she arrived in the UK in need of a refit, was bombed a month later in Davenport. She then served mainly as an Air Target Ship in Ceylon and Sydney. Hope that clears some of the confusion. Happy Modelling. Ron in Victoria BC 13C and raining -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bob Pearson Subject: USS Aaron Ward Greetings all, After many years of doing aviation artwork, one of my partners at Internet Modeler has shamed me into actually building something again. To which end I am looking at the Revell 1/240 USS Aaron Ward. As I am primarily a WW1 modeler, were any of the ships in this class completed before the end of WW1? If so are there any easily obtained references showing these ships and details that may differ from the kit? And a big thank you to Lorna for mentioning my passion for the Dido - definitely the handsomest ships around (sorry Hood). .. so far I have built a dozen or so of them in 1/2400 and 1/1200 scale . . next up is either a WEM 1/700 or the Fleetline 1/128 one.... I can dream :-) Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com// -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: Town-Class - Leeds, Lewes & Ludlow John Best source on Town-Class destroyers in general are the books by Arnold Hague, Destroyers For Great Britain, resp. The Towns.There are some fine photos of these ships, and it looks like there were different changes in armament during their career as British ships If you can't get these books, give me note, and I will send you copies of the interesting pages. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Naval History Magazine 2/99 Highlights of new Naval History magazine (FEB 99 issue): - Interview with documentary film maker Ken Burns - Overview of the genre of "alternate history" novels - USS Wyoming and Japanese pirates, 1863 - Dr. Robert Ballard's expedition to Midway - Benjamin Stoddert and the Quasi-War with France, 1798 - Preservation of the wooden frigate USS Constellation at Baltimore - Photo recon of Truk Lagoon in WW2 - Battle of Bloody Ridge, monuments and war relics today - Book Reviews: "Safeguard of the Sea" Naval History of Britain, 660-1649 "Bluejacket Odyssey: Guadalcanal to Bikini" "Hundred Days" (latest Napoleonic title by Patrick O'Brien) - Historic Aircraft: F4F Wildcat - Historic Fleets: USS Ranger (CV 4) - Museum Report: American Helicopter Museum & Education Center, West Chester, Pennsylvania Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Dragon/Revell Invincible & update set from WEM Hi Guys, Following a dozen or so enquiries re. the Dragon 1/700 Invincible, we would like to post some comments on SMML (I hope you don't mind Shane... I just don't have the time to answer the same questions.. and quite a few enquirers are SMMLlies). We have the kit here, courtesy of Gary Au, and, as we have a resin kit of the Invincible on the market, which is a very accurate rendition, I thought you might be interested in our assessment. Overall, this is a nice kit... length, beam, height etc.. these scale out nicely. Superstructure detail is very nicely rendered.. they even have decent RN pattern watertight doors. So, we have a good starting point. The hull has no waterline option and is provided in 2 halves... the ski-jump is perfectly angled. However, the deck striping pattern is indicated by raised lines and and will have to be sanded flat. The BIG error that has been made concerns the funnels.. they are far too short... correct width and length, but at around 3/4 of the proper height, will make this model look extremely strange and unbalanced. The decals that are provided are inadequate, of poor quality, and are of completely the wrong font type. The problem here, I suspect, is that there is no commercially available font to match British RN... on the WEM 1/700 decal sheet, Peter Hall had to "create" his own alphabet as a result. You get 4 x Harriers (not bad at all) and 4 x Seakings (not good!). Rotors are cast on, and are really way too chunky in plastic. There are no deck vehicles provided in the kit, or aircraft handling vehicles.. some of the ship's boats are missing, and none are accurately portrayed. This has prompted us to work on a basic upgrade set... funnels, boats, vehicles which will be available around mid-February. In the meantime, the following upgrade items are available: WEM PE 716 1/700 HMS Invincible/Illustrious etched brass, provides the following: Contains: Ramp nets, stern nets,side nets, port and starboard, mainmast yards (lower, mid and upper),992 Radar yards, Foremast yards,Mainmast front yards,D/F Aerial yard, 3-Bar Railing, Crane Hook,Funnel Yard (starboard and Port), Bridge Side Yard, Accomodation ladders, Funnel Cap Cages,Front floodlight gantry, Aft floodlight gantry, Retractable antennae array, 1006 Nav radars, Ensign and Jack staffs,I ntake grilles, Fairleads, Stern Ladder and Platform, 30'motor boat rail,Crane jib pedestal, 1022 radar, 35'workboat davit(right and left), lower boat deck davits (right and left), Huntress davit(right and left), anchor cable, Sea Harrier undercarriage legs x 6, Sea King fittings x 9, 2-Bar Rails, Vertical Ladders, Catwalk bulwarks AND IS PRICED at 15.38 pounds. Check out the URL at the bottom for details. WEM AS 7004 Westland Seakings (x3) with Photoetched Brass Details. 4.22 pounds WEM AS 7005 BAe AV-8A Sea Harriers (x5) 2.95 pounds WEM D 701 1/700 Royal Navy Decals 2.77 pounds However, as 9 lots of Seaking etched brass is already included in the big fret, we have decided to offer the following: 1 x WEM PE 716 plus 9 x WEM AS 7004 Seakings LESS their etched brass at 22.00 pounds. This offers a considerable saving to the modeller who wants a deckload of helicopters. All post free. For people who want to go the whole hog with super-detailing, we DO provide Jecobin 1/192 Scale plans of Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal... number of sheets in brackets. HMS Invincible'80 or'92.17.95(3) HMS Ark Royal 1985.19.95(3) HMS Illustrious 1982 19.95(3) NAVIS has a stunning walkaround of Invincible for anyone who wants further info, albeit she is in a modern fit. By the way, in response to the same question received from several folk, you would have your work cut out building HMS Ark Royal from this kit! I know of at least one SMMLlie who did it though with the WEM 1/700 HMS Invincible.. Hi Tim! Cheers! Caroline Carter.. White Ensign Models, http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wembrass.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume