Subject SMML28/12/98VOL408 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:54:38 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Shangri-La 2: Re: USS Shangri-La 3: Re: USS HORNET deck colors 4: Re: USS Shangri-La kits 5: Re: RMS Titanic 6: Re: USS Shangri-La 7: Re: French Warhips 8: Re: USS SHANGRI-LA 9: Re: USS NEW JERSEY colors 10: Re: USS Hornet 11: Re: Haze Gray my 2 cents worth 12: Wargaming Ships 13: Re: USS SHANGRI-LA 14: Re: USS Shangri La 15: Re: USS Shangri La 16: Re: USS Shangri La 17: Re: USS Shangri-La, Xmas. 18: USS NEW JERSEY 19: Re: Heller Kits 20: Re: USS SHANGI-LA 21: Civil War Ironclads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Naval air/aviation books FS 2: For Sale 3: 1/700 Fletcher kits, etc 4: Re: USS Shangri La, Potemkin and Aurora 5: Warship Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Les Dorr Jr." Subject: Re: USS Shangri-La Ah, yes. I remember this kit well. It was originally a Renwal kit, depicting Shangri-La shortly after conversion to angled-deck configuration. Don't remember how accurate it was, but it sure was detailed. I believe Revell (?) bought the molds and reissued it once (?) Related anecdote: I spent a lot of time trying to do Shangri-La as well as my skills at the time permitted, and was very proud of my 12-year-old effort. A couple months after I finished the model, a couple friends came over. While I was off doing something else, they decided to paint the model completely BROWN!!!!!!!! It "looked better," they said. Obviously I never let *them* in my house again!!! Les -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Rick Lundin Subject: Re: USS Shangri-La The Shangri-La had to be Renwall about 1:500 scale. As I remember it came with 2 A3D Skywarriors and about 8 F9F-8 Cougars. It also included a Regulus I missle and launcher and (probably but I do not specifically remember) 2 HUP helos. By the way does anyone remember the numbers and types of aircraft that came with the old Aurora Forrestal? Rick Lundin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: USS HORNET deck colors For the Doolittle raid the following colors would be correct. Flight deck stain 250N - a blue similar to the color 20B Deck Blue. Deck markings would have been in 251N - similar to 5-O Ocean Gray. All USN carrier decks should have been painted in this scheme by February 1942. HORNET was wearing Measure 21 camouflage at this time which would include the 250N deck stain. I would like to "second" John Snyder's comment about getting his color chip set. If you are at all serious about modeling USN WW II era ships you NEED this resource. The colors are exact matches to surviving official color chips and tech orders and are the only trustworthy color match source available to modelers. More sets are coming. The "black" center line that Craig mentioned would probably have been in 251N - the color also used to outline the elevators. The outboard dashed lines do not appear to have been present on the Doolittle mission. The two white line were guides - the B-25 bombers lined up on these when starting their takeoff run - thus allowing the right wingtip to clear the island by about 6 feet. A very "unofficial" note about Deck Stain 250N. One of my old friends (now deceased) was a veteran on the LANGLEY (1937-39) and then went to pilot training just before the war. He mainly flew Douglas Dauntless aircraft, later Curtiss Helldivers, and was in every major carrier battle in the Pacific except Coral Sea. Bill was a VERY interesting guy who enjoyed talking about his experiences. He was also one of the best ship modelers I have ever known. Bill said that the early blue stains were very poor in quality with not enough pigment in the mix, so that the red stain used pre-war would bleed through in a very short time causing continuous maintenance problems until better stain formulas were developed. When fresh, the color was blue, but would become various shades of purple or maroon as the red bled though, until it was re-stained blue again. Bill said this situation persisted though most of the first year of the war. The bleed-through took longer with each re-application of the blue stain (and the stains were improved) but the problem did not really go away until Stain 21B came out . I doubt if anyone would want to do this on a model, but it is interesting nonetheless. Daniel H. Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine P.S. A note to Michael C. Smith - several attempts to reply to your e-mail have failed ("fatal error in address - mail returned "). Please e-mail me again with your "snail mail" address and I will answer your questions about the magazine. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: USS Shangri-La kits Both Revell and Lindberg marketed their standard ESSEX kits as the Shangri-La. The Lindberg kit was a straight deck ESSEX, while the Revell kit was a "27 Charlie" angle deck. Neither kit was changed to reflect the individual ship differences - only the box art changed. Revell's was to "box" scale of 1/538th. scale. Lindberg's was to 1/500th. scale. I do not have either one in my collection and my memory is too vague as to the air groups contained in these kits. Someone else will have to step in with this info. Daniel H. Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Phil Kirchmeier Subject: Re: RMS Titanic >> Has anyone built , or in the process of building the new 1/400 RMS Titanic. Any info will be most helpful << I've reviewed it for FineScale Modeler. I think it appears in the current issue. Not a bad kit. Molding is a bit thick and there where some minor fit proplems, but Acadamy went some distance to correct innaccuracies/problems of the older Minicraft kit. Did you have a specific question? Phil Kirchmeier http://www.execpc.com/~pkirch/ "What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch?"--W.C. Fields -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Shangri-La You are talking about the Renwall kit. It had about a dozen F9F-6 or F9F-8 and two A3D. They seemed to be a little underscale but nice representations. Larry Gertner did a writeup of building the Renwall kit in his modeler section in Detail & Scale USS LEXINGTON. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: French Warhips I think that what Mikey is looking for are FRENCH WARSHIPS of the WW I and WW II era's, not warships by French MANUFACTURERS. Other than the DUNKERQUE, STRASBOURG and RICHELIEU, I am not aware of any kits of other French ships of this era. However, there are many models of French warships from these era's made in 1:1250 scale. If you are interested in these, start with the Warship website 1250 Page. Paul Jacobs Editor 1250 Page http://warship.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS SHANGRI-LA No, you're not losing your mind, there was such a kit. Now, as to who manufactured it...I want to say it was Renwal, but I wouldn't bet the farm on my memory. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS NEW JERSEY colors For WW2, you've got a couple of choices, depending on the time frame you want to depict. Up until her June '45 overhaul, she was in Ms.21, overall Navy Blue (5-N) with Deck Blue (20-B) decks. From the overhaul until the end of the war she was in Ms.22; what I can't tell you from my information at hand is whether her Ms.22 used the 1945 neutral grays, or the earlier purple-blues (though I would suspect the neutral grays--I'll check with my partner Randy). We've got the purple-blues covered in our USN Paint Chip Set 1, and will have the neutral grays included in our USN Paint Chip Set 2, currently in production. For Korea and 'Nam, she'd be in Haze Gray overall, with natural teak main deck surfaces and deck gray metal decks and turret tops, and black funnel caps. Let me talk with Randy and I can supply the FS reference for these colors. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Hornet Dear Sir: Concerning the planks I used the color drawing of the Hornet in the Warship Profile. I'm glad you brought this up because I mis counted the number of planks. It was ten by the drawing. This line started where the flight deck begins to angle to the bow. I'll to see if I can copy and e-mail them in. Sincerely Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Haze Gray my 2 cents worth >> The proper mixture will vary according to the brand of paint you're using. There is no universal mix. << He's right about that but I use Model Master paints and here's what I use. I mix two parts Camouflage Gray to one part Medium Gray for 1/350 scale models. Add more Camo. Gray for 1/700 scale models. This color of gray has a blue to it which is characteristic to the modern Haze Gray used on US Naval vessels today. I tried Testors Light Gray but it has a brown tint to it. Depending on the photos you use as reference, both shade show up but the color is due probably to the filter on the camera and light conditions at the time. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "msyoung" Subject: Wargaming Ships In reply to Chuck Duggie. I used to make wargaming ships in 1/1200 scale. For some really neat scratchbuilt 1/1200 ships look in the Warships Website under 1/1200 Readers Gallery section. I mainly constructed British Battleships from WWI and a friend of mine did German Battleships. We spent many hours wargaming and building during High School. Most of our ships were out of balsa and were fairly crude. The really fun ones to build and research were the pre-dreadnaughts (sp?). By the way SMML, thanks for the information on Deuschland. It will come in very useful. Mike Young Springfield, MO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS SHANGRI-LA About the USS SHANGRI-LA it sounds like the old Monogram kits of the 1940s. They were wood and I think they produced a series that included a Benson class DD and a few others. I bought one once in the late'80's. I found them not to my liking. As I was use to plastic. I hope this helps Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Newron@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Shangri La The Shangri-La was put out by Renwal in 1/500 scale in plastic back then. I understand that Revell acquired the Renwal ship molds in 1978, and that Revell kit H-444 USS Lexington was from these Renwal molds. So, perhaps there is still hope for a reissue of the Shangra-La. Wayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Shangri La Per Chris Hughes and the Shangri La, I believe that it was from the ship series from Renwal models who did not only excellent ship models, but armor as well. I think they also did the USS North Carolina and a couple of others around the mid to late 50's but don't quote me as to their release time, but I do remember they were a little more expensive than Revell of the time, but much better detailed. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "roger torgeson" Subject: Re: USS Shangri La Chris, I can think of two possibilities for your Shangri La. One would be the old Lindberg kit, and the other could be the Renwal 1/500 scale kit. Looking at the instructions for the Renwal kit of the USS Washington, as I type this, I see the carrier listed as the Lexington, but in the back of my head the little gray cells are telling me it was also called the Shangri La at one time. Not much help is it? Both Lindberg and Renwal did the 27 Charlie version of the ship. Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Re: USS Shangri-La, Xmas. Chris: You may have been the recipient of the 'Renwal' 'S' series, 1/500 scale Shangri-La, kit S-600. I have the Lexington and North Carolina from the series, I think my 'Springfield' went to the happy hunting ground in the 80s. I got all my Renwals in the mid to late 70s, never seen any since. The Lexington came with 5* F9F-8 Cougars, with another 7 featuring folded wings. 2* A3D Skywarriors, a 'Helicopter' and 2 'Regulus' missiles on trolleys. Angle deck, 8 single and 7 twin 3"? guns. Xmas ship kits, absolutely NONE! (again). My first Xmas ship was the Airfix Bismarck in 1965 or 66, thanks to my neighbours. This may have been in response to my 1/720 Arizona....... I think I got a Revell Yorktown for 1971, but definitely remember the Revell Forrestal for Dec 1972, quickly followed by the USS Boston probably with Xmas loot. When I started earning real cash, I just bought ship kits and more, all year round! Those were the days - never to be repeated, although in the past decade its usual for me to get the Conways 'Warship' annual at the appointed 25/12 date! Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: John Snyder Subject: USS NEW JERSEY OK, now that I've had a chance to talk with my partner.... When NJ repainted to Ms.22 in her mid-1945 yard period, she used Navy Blue (5-N), with the new neutral Haze Gray (which we will have in our USN Paint Chip Set 2). Don't forget, if you do her in Ms.22 after the yard period, she'll need to have the rebuilt bridge. For the Korean and 'Nam periods, use FS36270 for Haze Gray, and FS36008 for Deck Gray. Sumrall's _IOWA Class Battleships_ is a good reference. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Heller Kits Hi SMML, To the list of Heller kits I would add the 1/400 kit of the German World War II minesweeper M-24. I haven't built it, but it looks like a nice kit and has nice box art! Cheers, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: USS SHANGI-LA I have that model - It was made by a now defunct manufacturer RENWAL, was marketed as being 1/500 scale, and the somewhat chunky aircraft were F8, A4, A3, Fury, F2H1 and F7U for certain, and I think a very blob like HUP Retriever plus some (Regulus?) missiles on a trolley. The kit was very chunky and the deck markings were huge thick raised lines (more like panels!). However, for its day it was a mark above the Revell kits, not the least for being a "reasonable" and "standard" (all Renwal I have seen were 1/500) scale. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Hess1962@aol.com Subject: Civil War Ironclads I was "gifted" with a pair of Thouroughbred 1/600 kits for Christmas ("Monitor" and "Merrimac", of course). They look like pretty neat little kits, and with a little bashing, should make up into decent models. I note from the literature that this firm has an extensive line of Civil War era vessels and will probably order some more. My question: can anyone recommend a good resource for drawings/photos of rigging, davit placement, deck furniture, etc. for these ships (preferably, one that won't cost the proverbial arm and leg)? Many thanks, in advance. Dave Hess, Kalamazoo MI USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Naval air/aviation books FS Naval air/aviation books for sale: I have about 450 aviation books I'm thinning out from my library and many pertain to naval aviation. All books are in mint condition, hardcover books have had their dust jackets covered in clear protective plastic, all books are guaranteed, and anything is returnable for any reason. IPMS members may take 10% off the prices listed here, but please supply your IPMS number in order to receive the discount. Orders over $100.00 will receive a 20% discount. For members of the SMML list there is a holiday sale through 31 Dec 98 of 25% off the prices shown here. If you'd like an e-mail list of titles available contact Bob Steinbrunn at BSteinIPMS@aol.com Best regards, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: For Sale For Sale: 1. JEREMIAH O'BRIEN LIBERTY SHIP -$12.00 1/700 SCALE TOM'S MODEL WORKS 1. USS HELENA CA-75 -$12.00 Revell kit -1/476 scale If interested e-mail me at CBNJBB62@AOL .COM. Only interested in US residents. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Pacific Front Hobbies Subject: 1/700 Fletcher kits, etc Have several NOS Skywave SW-01 Fletcher kits in stock; $15.00 per box, 2 ships per box. Re-stock on Delphis Italian carrier Garibaldi, new lower price at $98.00. 1/700 Dragon HMS Invincible at $19.00. Profile Morskie IJN FUSO at $12.50. 1/1250 Neptun USS Lexington 1940 at $125.00.(For a review of this fantastic model, see the WARSHIP website, subheading 1250 LINE.) 1/1250 Neptun German Raider Komet at $48.00. 1/1250 Navis/Copy Imperial Russian Cruiser Boyarin (Bojarin) $39.00 Profile Morskie HMS Scylla $12.50. Delta Publications German Warships Of WW 2 w/ some color photos, $32.00 Model-Art Imperial Japanese Navy Fighter Camo, $32.00 HighMold 1/700 USS West Virginia 1941 at $115.00 Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Shangri La, Potemkin and Aurora If you look quickly, I think you may find a Renwal USS Shangri La @ 1/500 for sale on eBay. Also If you look quickly, you may find a Russian has the Potemkin and possibly the Aurora (by Ogonek, in Russian) for sale on eBay. Search on Potemkin and Aurora. http://www.ebay.com Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update This Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) update includes the following new items: Iron Shipwright 1:350 USS Olympia 1899 build-up review by Bob Santos Review of Armada Scale 1:350 HMCS Kootenay (ex HMS Decoy) by Ken Summa A look at the 1:96 USS Olympia at the Smithsonian Museum of American History Added Photo tour of the heavy cruiser USS Salem CA-139 Activated the Warship Message Board for buy-sell-networking et al Updated New Releases and Developments in 1250 Scale Book review of PC Patrol Craft of World War II by Wm. J. Veigele Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com Oh Yes! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume