Subject: SMML29/12/98VOL409 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:44:31 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Massachusetts Kit 2: Kriegsmarine Colors 3: SIMAR Fittings 4: Division bands on the Janus 5: Re: USS Hornet 6: Re: USS Shangri La 7: Re: USS Shingra La kits 8: Re: Kelly and Kashmir fits 9: Re: CV deck colour 10: Re: Kelly & Kashmir 11: USS Indianapolis colors 12: Re: Aurora Forrestal question 13: USS Enterprise CVN-65 conversion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Christmas in Atlantaland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: McKellar Subject: USS Massachusetts Kit My wife gave me a stocking full of cash to spend on kits,supplies etc... Anyone know how much (the least) the new USS Massachusetts Kit can be had for and from whom? Mark USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Kriegsmarine Colors Adding to the ongoing debate about Kriegsmarine colors: The address for the German office responsible for the RAL colors (the German version of US Federal Standard --FS-- colors) is: RAL, Deutsches Institute for Guetesicherung und Kennzeichnung e.V., Siegburger Str. 39, 53757 Sankt Augustin, Germany. Tel: 02241 1605 Fax: 02241 160516 (from the USA 011492241 etc) They will sell color chip sets to the public. Recommended is the RAL K5 "Farbenfacher". Price is DM 35 plus postage. I do not anticipate ordering a set for myself for the following reasons: a) in 1953 the RAL color charts were revised, eliminating a number of colors deemed no longer necessary. These were mostly colors used by the military and by various organizations of the Nazi party-- exactly the ones we are most interested in. b) Numbers and colors are sometimes changed. Naturally, this is undertaken without the interests of modelers in mind. For example RAL 7004 Grey was removed and listed under 7003, which was eliminated. In the meantime a new RAL 7004 has appeared, which does NOT match the old 7004 or 7003.... There are also no guarantees that an "officially unchanged" wartime color actually matches a modern color. c) More accurate means of KM color matching are available in the form of existing model ships built by dockyards, or by sailors on board during the war, painted with original paints direct from the paint locker. Also, there may be WWII KM ship fittings in several museums still with the original paint on parts of them. Using modern RAL charts is just too problematic, and not even necessary given the other resources available. David Krakow Farben Polizei -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John E. Fail" Subject: SIMAR Fittings Can anyone please direct me to a U.S.A. dealer for SIMAR fittings. I need to order a dual 40mm gun that I understand they manufacture. Thanks in advance John Fail, Bayfield CO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Division bands on the Janus In late 1940 the destroyer Janus was camouflaged in a complicated three color wavy disruptive pattern over the entire hull and superstructure. The dark and light grey panels were divided by a two and half foot wide white division band. Can anybody suggest a method of obtaining this white division band at 1/700th scale? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: USS Hornet OOPS! CORRECTION. I wrote: >> HORNET was wearing Measure 21 camouflage at this time which would include the 250N deck stain. << This should have read Measure 12 - I transposed the numbers - sorry about that. Actually to be entirely correct it should read Measure 12R (revised). Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: USS Shangri La I remember there once was a kit of an angle-deck Essex class carrier from Lindberg which was called Shangri La. It was in the then famous 1ft-scale (i.e. each model was 1ft regardless what ship it was). I thinbk the same kit was also sold as Bonhomme Richard and Essex at different times. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: USS Shingra La kits Regarding the SHINGRA LA kit info I posted yesterday: it was basically correct but obviously incomplete. I forgot about the old Renwall kit of SHINGRA LA. Renwall went out of business in 1978 and Revell acquired all their tooling. To date, only a few of the old Renwall kits have been released under the Revell lable. Revell had their own 1/536 scale (box scale) ESSEX angle deck kit which was marketed as several different ships, SHINGRA LA, ESSEX, RANGER, ORISKANY, WASP, YORKTOWN, LEXINGTON, and BON HOMME RICHARD. As mentioned in yesterday's post, the only difference in these kits was the box art. Starting in 1979 a few of the Renwall ships were issued by Revell. As far as I can recall the Renwall SHINGRA LA was NOT issued as the SHINGRA LA under the Revell label - however it did show up as the BON HOMME RICHARD (kit H-442) and as the LEXINGTON (kit H-444). The other Renwall kits that were issued under the Revell label were: USS WASHINGTON, USS SPRINGFIELD, and USS KING. If there were any others I am not aware of them. Lindberg also did the same thing as Revell - releasing a kit under different names with no changes to the parts inside. Their version of the ESSEX class (angle deck) appeared as SHINGRA LA, WASP, YORKTOWN, INTREPID, TICONDEROGA, and HORNET. Their kit is listed as 1/500 also, but I believe it is not the same tooling as Renwall's kit. If they hit a "standard" scle it was just luck. Like the early Revell kits, they were designed to fixed lengths regardless of subject to fit into standard sized packaging. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Re: Kelly and Kashmir fits There was an article in Airfix Magazine February 1981 by Ian Fleming which contained a copy of IWM photograph A238 showing Jupiter (starboard side) and in the background, Kashmir (port side). Although it is undated (a phone call to the IWM photo library would reveal what the caption says), Kashmir clearly has a 4" replacing the aft tubes and the blast/spray shield aft of A gun. As to 20mm fit, Kashmir certainly had the platforms either side of the engine room vent (aft of the forward set of tubes) but it is unclear whether the guns were ever fitted. Fleming appears to suggest that 20mms were not fitted to the bridge wings. The same article contains A4081 of Kelly from the starboard quarter and showing that this ship too had a 4" aft. Since no mention is made of the bridge wing guns being changed, I assume that they remained as .5" to the end. The angle does not show the area of A and B turrets however. In addition, Kelly carried a radar Type 286 (antenna on mainmast top and office on galley roof under mast tripod) and an MF/DF aerial on a bracket on the wheelhouse. Kashmir had a diamond shape DF antenna at the masthead. Apparently Warship 15 and 16 carried articles on the J and K classes but those are two issues I do not have. Perhaps Dave Carter has them in his collection? I hope this is of some use. Regards Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re: CV deck colour I would like to add a little more "color" concerning carrier decks. My father was one of a select few Army pilots who evaluated possible joint USAAF/USN use of aircraft. As such he flew TBF's with VT-10 off the USS Enterprise. As I was writing an article on decks that was in FSM, I asked him about the condition of the flight deck as compared to metal decks that I flew off of. He remembered them as a horrible mix of oil and gas stains that varied the color as well as sections being worn down by landings, dropping tools, etc., and battle damage and replaced with new wood and new paint/stain and then all of this being effected by ocean weathering. His best recollection was that it was shades of bleached out blues and purples, always ugly looking and that the "Navy" guys were always painting on or around it. But I think this would be very tough to duplicate on plastic and especially in small scales such as 1/350 or 1/700. I would guess a little harder weathering on the stern and the bow areas might give a good effect. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Kelly & Kashmir Hi SMML and Chris, The Kelly and Kashmir would be a great idea for a diorama. I'll try to respond to Chris' inquiries. 1. Judging by photographs of the two ships in S.W.C. Pack's "The Battle for Crete," also known as Ian Allen Sea Battles in Close-Up 5, both ships seem to have the after torpedo tubes replaced by a 4" AA gun. 2. Judging by the same photographs, both ships have splinter shields added around B and Y twin 4.7" mounts. I'm not sure this answers your question.... 3. Again judging by the same photographs, I cannot tell if they have 20mm guns in the bridge wings or not. For what it's worth, you might want to look at the photograph of Jupiter (with Kashmir in the background) on page 26 of Ray Burt's British Destroyers of World War II; I can't tell if the Kashmir has 20mm guns or not, but her contemporary the Jupiter still definitely has quad .5" guns in the bridge wings. I have read that Mountbatten was a big proponent of the 20mm gun, but don't know if he was able to get them fitted to the Kelly and Kashmir before they were sunk; I doubt it. Have you read Kenneth Poolman's book about the Kelly? It might help. Good luck, Chris, and be sure to post the pictures! Cheers, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Jowfx@webtv.net (John Fox) Subject: USS Indianapolis colors Does anyone know if the Indianapolis was painted in neutral grays or purple/blues for her Ms 22 at the time of her loss? John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Aurora Forrestal question I had this model more than 40 years ago. I remember the types of planes, though I don't remember how many there were. The planes were pretty terrible, even by standards of 40 years ago. There were A-4 Skyhawks, F7U Cutlasses, and something that resembled F-8 Crusader's, though it's hard to say for sure that's what they were. There were also a couple of helicopters. The Revell model, a contemporary, had much better planes, including A-4's, A-3D Skywarriors, F11F Tigers, and Cutlasses. And maybe, there were some A1E's too, tho I'm not sure about that. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: USS Enterprise CVN-65 conversion This is obviously a bit of a long shot, but I don't suppose anybody has thought about marketing a resin conversion to backdate the Tamiya 1/350 Enterprise to the pre-refit look (with the "beehive" island)? Only, lets face it, the airwing markings never looked that good again (I'm thinking particularly of VF1 and VF2). If GMM is carrying these decals in 1/350 (as "Enterprise HI-VIZ"), then there must be a market (?) James Morley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: Christmas in Atlantaland Sorry it took so long to reply guys - Christmas and four small children - nuff said! As for my book on Atlanta's, I returned the cover art to the printer today with a couple of minor corrections. Text, photos, captions, layout - all done. I expect to see bluelines of the book right after new years and we should be on press early the next week. If all goes well (and of course it always does) I expect to be announcing it for sale around January 15th. Bear with me, it'll be worth the wait. Just as a tease, amongst other things, there are at least 40 photographs from ex Atlanta class sailors that I guarantee nobody's ever seen - both under way (and under attack - no kidding!) and in dry dock....some pretty neat new stuff (he says modestly)... Look for the announcement in a couple of weeks - Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume