Subject SMML01/01/99VOL412 Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:47:19 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Kresta 2: Colors 3: British Ensigns 4: Soviet Submarines 5: RMS Titanic colours 6: US and Russian warship plans 7: Re: Carrier Decks 8: KRESTA PLANS 9: Good news from Heller... 10: Re: Revell and Aurora FORRESTAL 11: Re: What Did You Get For Christmas? 12: Happy New Year 13: RMS Titanic ect 14: HMS Lion @ Jutland 15: Glencoe's OREGON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship magazine 2: Wasp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: Kresta Pieter I have some very fine photos of Kresta class cruisers (one I, the rest IIs) taken by the Royal Air Force in the 1970. I can send you photocopies if you give me your post address (sorry, no scanning possible). Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Colors First I think Evert-Jan got it right when painting his models to his satisfaction. You never can get the "correct" color on your model. If you ever have seen a "real ship", you will find that its color is changing with weather conditions. Also the color of your model will look different under different conditions of light. Further you have to take in account the effect of weathering. Even a short time in wind and rain can make a paint looking different from the time when it was freshly applied. Nonetheless I also see things like Dave, i.e. from an historians point of view. Also, how can you give the right "suggestion of reality" if you don't know how this reality was? Without knowing the exact tone, hue.etc. of the paint that was originally applied to a ship, you can only give a rough idea of it in your model but no suggestion of reality. So as from the historians point of view we should try to come as close to the "real" color as possible. From the modelers point of view we should try to accept individual interpretations and should not treat this question like a dogma. As for the RAL - Kriegsmarine thread, I know Kriegsmarine color carts which have hand-written cross references to RAL colors. (Unfortunately the colors are so much worn out and faded that they are no help in finding the right tone.) These notes refere to different RAL coding systems and are partially contradictory. So I don't think there were any "official" cross references between the KM colors and the RAL system, at least in the early war years. Further I think that the KM was much more interested in characteristics like weather proofness, wash-off resistence etc. than in tone or hue of the paints, especially as the latter ones would not be of long endurance under the typical weather conditions of the North Sea. But of course every cross refence - official or not - can help to come closer to the KM colors. So every information is highly appreciated, at least by me. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Duane Fowler Subject: British Ensigns Hello All, Best wishes to all for smooth sailing in the New Year! I have a question about the rules governing the different British ensigns. When and by whom would the Blue, the Red, and the White Ensigns be flown? Best Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Bruce Buchner" Subject: Soviet Submarines I'm building a couple of MB Models Soviet nuclear submarines. Does anyone know what color they should be below the waterline or are the just all over black. Thanks for the help. Bruce Buchner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Marcus Ransom Subject: RMS Titanic colours Hello Shane, At present I'm making the Acadamy Minicraft Titanic 1/350 scale and I've got a problem. Basically I can't decided if the white on the hull is Matt white, Gloss white or semi-matt white. Have you or any others got any ideas? Thanks Marcus Ransom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Richard Emerson-Pink Subject: US and Russian warship plans Does anyone know of any good sources for plans of the following? USS Cimarron (AO 177), jumboised version preferably, Pomornik class (Zubr class in Russian, so I believe) Air cushionvehicles, Murena class Air cushion vehicle (no NATO name for it), I have also only managed to get sketches of the ACV's from the internet. If someone can help it would be much appreciated. Happy and a prosperous new year to everyone. Richard Emerson-Pink -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: Carrier Decks Regarding Item #6 SMML-V.1411- Aircraft Carrier Decks Bert has written two articles on decks- one related to construction and the second on painting and weathering. They appeared in Plastic Ship Modeler: Vol.4, No.1 (1997/1) and Vol.4, No.2 (1997/2), respectively. Both were a couple pages long, well written, and very informative. I'm pretty sure back issues are available from PSM. Mike Czibovic La Mirada, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Baker Subject: KRESTA PLANS The problem with using the books mentioned to date in response to the request for plans of Soviet Navy-era KRESTA-I and KRESTA-II surface combatants is that the plans are not SCALE drawings but rather interpretations derived from photography. Some, such as those appearing in COMBAT FLEETS and WEYER'S FLOTTENTASCHENBUCH, are by talented draftsmen using multiple photographs with which to prepare the drawings, are probably pretty accurate, but others, like those in Jordan or in the old Polmar/Breyer guides, are more guesswork than authentic and were meant to provide recognition information rather than as the basis for accurate models. Various Russian naval magazines, however, since 1991, have been publishing highly detailed articles, illustrated with drawings prepared from official plans, showing virtually all of the Soviet Navy-era warships. The magazines include MORSKOY SBORNIK, SUDOSTROINYE, GANGUT, and others. The data from these articles (and from other reliable Russian sources) has been the basis for the technical descriptions of the ships that appear in the current COMBAT FLEETS OF THE WORLD (while another, somewhat better known and vastly more expensive, reference book continues to use old Western intelligence agency ESTIMATES for its data). For those unable to obtain the Russian periodicals (subscriptions can be obtained through Eastview Press in Minnesota, which works directly with a Russian office in Moscow), many of the drawings form the basis of the illustrations in the various editions of A.S. Pavlov's series of books about the Soviet and Russian navies since 1945. An annotated English-language edition of Pavlov's 1996 edition (WARSHIPS OF THE USSR AND RUSSIA,1945-1995), edited by Dr. Norman Friedman, is available from the U.S. Naval Institute Press (Web page at http://www.usni.org and WELL WORTH A LENGTHY VISIT). In general, many of the questions asked by modellers on the SMML can be easily answered by reference to various USNI Press books, particularly those by Norman Friedman (for which Alan Raven and myself have had the honor of preparing many of the drawings). I've been bemused to see modellers investing up to several hundred dollars in a kit, plus more for paints and aftermarket brass, etc., and then not knowing where to find reference material that would enable them to complete the model accurately. The Web is nice, but the LIBRARY (or any of a number of naval booksellers) can provide a heck of a lot more--and more authentic--data than too much of what I'm seeing on the Web. Happy New Year to all the good people who love ships, ship models, and the sea. Dave Baker Editor, COMBAT FLEETS OF THE WORLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Good news from Heller... I wish all SMMLers a very happy new year 1999. The January 98 edition of MRB, the leading French ship modeller's magazine, includes an article on a visit to Heller. I thought that some of the content would be of interest, in particular since it details dates of release for new or re-issued ships (including Airfix...): 1.. Heller reported a turnover of 79 million French Francs last year (about 14 million USD), 35% of it exported. They employ 90 people in their HQ and factory in Trun (south of Caen in Normandy) and produce about 4 million kits. They reckon that 50% of their customers are above 17. 2.. A two-person team is devoted to the famous "no charge-48 hours- spare part replacement" customer service, which also covers kits no longer in the current catalogue. 3.. Heller was regrouped Humbrol in Hobby Product Group (HPG) of the Borden Group in 1981, and with Airfix in 1986. HPG was sold in 1994 to Allen & Mc Guire, an Irish company. 4.. Surprisingly enough, the all-category best-seller of the Heller catalogue is the 1/400 Foch/Clémenceau (which first appeared in the range in 1963!) 5.. The period 1995-98 was devoted to the re-issue of old kits, mainly in "all-inclusive" boxes containing the kit with instructions in a redesigned booklet, paint and brushes. The idea was to stimulate sales to first-time/young modellers. This was considered a great success and has encouraged Heller to include some brand-new releases in the 1999 business plan. 6.. The first new kit of a ship in the 1/400 range in a very long time has been announced: the PAN (CVN) Charles De Gaulle will be available in April 99. 7.. The other announcements for the period Sept 98-July 99 (jointly with Airfix) are: a.. End 98: 1/150 Amerigo Vespucci and Preussen, 1/100 Victory, 1/400 Richelieu, 1/600 USCG Eagle b.. January 99: 1/200 Smit Rotterdam c.. March 99: 1/200 Saint-Louis and Golden Hind, 1/400 T-23 and Scharnhorst, 1/600 Graf Spee and Ajax d.. April 99: 1/400 Charles De Gaulle e.. May 99: 1/60 Drakkar, 1/600 Hood and Moskva f.. July 99: 1/400 Charles De Gaulle in box "all-inclusive" MRB also reviewed (among very obvious kits like the Academy 1/400 Titanic or the Zengdefu 1/260 Harbin) two very interesting kits: a 1/400 Floréal Frigate from L'Arsenal, and a 1/35 S-Boot Serie S-100 from Azimut Productions. They also announced a 1/350 Kortenaer from Artitec Models and adverdise their own line of drawings, mainly of French and/or obscure ships. One exception: 1/400 Normandie, 10 francs per set. Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Revell and Aurora FORRESTAL The original Revell model didn't come with F9F's. Those were on their FDR model. I am certain that the Aurora model that I had came with A-4 Skyhawks, because I remember them so well. They had pointed noses like an F 104, and I always thought that they looked rather phony because of it. Of course the Aurora planes were pretty bad anyway, so that was typical. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: What Did You Get For Christmas? I didn't get any new toys for Christmas, just a lovely cashmere sweater from my wife and a few other odds and ends. But I just got a new job, which more than makes up for anything else I could have wished for! Perhaps I'll take time off for a week before I start and work on a few of the ship models that are gathering dust... Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Happy New Year Just wishing all our friends a happy new year, and may it be a very good one to you. from Katz(Graham) and elfine(Melanie) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: The Codes Subject: RMS Titanic ect Hello list, I was wondering what the diffrences are between the new 1/400 scale kit and the old 1/350 scale kit? It was noted that the new kit was an improvement and corrected some of the defects of the later. What are the improvments?? The hull? Also would anyone out there know if there is a sourse out there for plans for some of the old P@O liners from the 1890s,,Empress of Inda or Empress of Japan, I think one of these liners was a AUX cruiser in WW1..Really neat looking ships they show the transition from sail to steam so well...City of new york was of this generation of liners,,I believe this was the the same ship that Titanic sucked away from the dock at Southhampton. Anyway Happy New Year to all ! B.Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John H. Werler" <110370.665@compuserve.com> Subject: HMS Lion @ Jutland I am just starting to build the 1/700 battlecruiser HMS Lion by Classic Models and I am wondering if anyone can help me out concerning the following questions. Any assistance will be appreciated. Thanks. 1. I plan to complete her to the 1916 configuration at the time of Jutland which is what is indicated as the basis of the kit itself. The instructions call for a "medium blue grey" paint scheme for hull and superstructure. However, photos and models that I have seen for this period show her in what appears to be a very light grey paint scheme for side surfaces (as opposed to a darker grey that appears common for the Grand Fleet in previous years). Although I have numerous references for British color schemes in WWII, I have not been able to find much in the way of WWI reference. Does anyone know of a reasonable paint match for the Lion at this time period; especially a match in the Polly S series? 2. For horizontal surfaces, the instructions call for a "chocolate brown linoleum" for superstructure decks. The only photos I can find for horizontal surfaces are three B&W photos of models (apparently from the Imperial War Museum collection) on page 153 of the book Building Warship Models by P. C. Coker. These undated photos depict HMS Lion at what appears to be close or slightly after 1916 and show what looks like an extremely dark paint on top of the superstructure and after boat shelter decks as well as the main turret tops. This would appear to be much darker than a chocolate brown in B&W. Again, any match available? 3. The kit contains no provisions for torpedo netting but my references indicate that she still carried such netting at this time. I will need to add stand-off braces and a small torpedo net shelf along each hull side. However, I am not sure how to simulate the rolled up netting itself other than to simply add plastic rod of an appropriate diameter. This may not look as convincing as something more flexible which could be constricted at tie down points. Anyone have any experience here? In parting, I just want to add that I continue to be extremely impressed by the depth of knowledge and experience that shows up on SMML and, especially, by the helpful manner in which this information is shared. I find this listing fascinating and hope that the current level of quality and helpfulness continues. I'm thoroughly hooked! Still hoping to see a 1/700 kit of HMS Tiger to join the other "Big Cats" on their way to Jutland. What a diorama that would make! John Werler Houston, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: RVanda1839@aol.com Subject: Glencoe's OREGON I too have the Oregon and would like to see some