Subject: SMML03/01/99VOL414 Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:56:45 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Revell Germany 1/144 kits? 2: BATTLESHIP Scharnhorst 3: Re: Heller's Sharnhorst 4: Re: In the scrapyard... 5: Re: Heller Scharnhorst and Gneisenau 6: Ship's Mast 7: Re: In the Scrapyard 8: Re: 1/200 scale R/C ships 9: Re: R/C Yamato 10: Camouflage colors of the Graf Spee 11: Re: In the scrapyard... 12: Painting in relief 13: Oceanliner Models 14: A suggestion for added value... 15: Re: VERY Good news from Heller... :'))))))) 16: Blue Water Navy... USS Kidd Kit. 17: Re: photos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Wanted : Surface radio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mark4SMP@aol.com Subject: Revell Germany 1/144 kits? I recently stumbled across these kits; a couple of patrol vessels and a couple of subs, all, apparently, from the Modern German Navy. Does anyone have an experience and/or opinions of them? TIA Mark Levine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Foeth" Subject: BATTLESHIP Scharnhorst Ok, you heard it. Concidering the armouring of the Scharnhorsts, I think they should be called battleships. They are refered to as battlecruisers due to their small armament of 9*283mm, but it is a lack of armour that is characteristic for the battlecruiser. The Scharnhorsts had an armoured belt thicker than the Bismarcks, and barbette armour was also better. Concidering the heavy armour, the term battlecruiser does not apply in my opinion. Should the armament have been increased to 6*380mm, the general consensus would probably be different, resulting in very fast battleships, with conciderable punch, making them a more even match for a King George V class battleship. This class too is a heavily armoured ship suffering from a light main battery. But, the British choose to do so, while the Scharnhorsts were limited in their offensive power due to political motivations. If we would trade in the Yamato's 18" guns for 11" guns, we would not call it a cruiser, would we? I think not. The Scharnhorsts armament was too light, although it never hampered them in their operations, as they were always under orders not to engage enemy warships to minimise the chances of damage. The change to 380 mm guns probably would not have helped them, should their carrees have followed the same path, but at least, they would not longer be called cruisers. This has off course nothing to do with the Scharnhorst being one of the most handsome (if not THE most handsome) and succesfull ships in the second world war. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: The Codes Subject: Re: Heller's Sharnhorst Hello again list, I hope everyone had a great new year...on that post about new releases by Heller I hope that KM Sharnhorst is a new kit?? I have the old Gneisenau kit still in the box and Its not a very good likness of the ship..the hull is not that close and the main deck !!! Yuck! the barbette for cesar turret is way off...I've thought of building this kit but am saving it for a scratch build for parts!! But then again It it really is a new kit that comings out well all I can say is goodie!!! Cheers B.code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: In the scrapyard... Dear Tom: The two ships are following: The cruiser is the OKLAHOMA CITY is scheduled to be a target and the the carrier is possibly either: Hornet, Oriskany, Bon Homme Richard or the Bennington. While driving by did you see a hull number on the conning tower? Try for further help the US Naval ship and Shipbuilding museum website they have a good lists dealing with the mothball fleet situation. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Re: Heller Scharnhorst and Gneisenau >> Wow, the Scharnhorst at last!! - IMHO the most beautiful-looking of all the world's battlecruisers (with the Alaska class a close second and maybe HMS Hood and Tiger tied for third). That really is good news, Jean-Paul - I can't wait to add her to my "large scale" (i.e. bigger than 1/700) collection! BTW, I hope the box art hasn't changed; I'm also a big fan of that Heller "watercolour" style painting. << In the meantime you can also build the Gneisenau, which is readily available in the current catalogue. The kit depicts Gneisenau in its last configuration (Operation Cerberus, the Channel Dash) with the new hangar that was installed (on Gneisenau only) in Brest, for which Heller provides generously a catapult that is not needed, but it has a few problems: the torpedo tubes are missing, and the hull, being common with the Scharnhorst kit, is not quite correct (the bow must be altered a bit, and many portholes relocated). The main trouble with the hull however is that the armour belt is missing. Heller forgot it... None of these are significant trouble, and the kit is truly magnificent. If you wanted to model the Scharnhorst from the Gneisenau kit (without waiting for Heller to release it), you would have to scratchbuild a different hangar and a tripod mast (in addition to correcting the armour belt of course). Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Ship's Mast I'M moving up from plastic models to resin. Yes, I'M joining the big guys and I need help. Can anyone tell me the name of a book or web site that will tell me how to build a ship's mast. Are maybe e-mail me what to do so I can print it off.... Thanks Alton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: In the Scrapyard tomkremer > I was driving by the old Mare Island naval base the other day and noticed a couple of WWII era ships in the boneyard awaiting scrapping. I was wondering of anybody who follows this sort of thing could put a name of the profiles. One looked to be an Essex class carrier retrofitted with angled flight deck, etc. The other even more interesting ship was, I think, a Cleveland class cruiser with only the #1 turret in place, the #2 turret removed to make room for a bridge extension and the rear half of the ship totally rebuilt to carry Terrier or Talos missiles. I couldn't see the misile launcher(s) itself but the guidance system was there. << You saw the ex-USS Oriskany (CVA-34) and the ex-USS Oklahoma City (CLG-5) at the ex-Mare Island Shipyard. The Oriskany was towed there a few years ago to be scrapped, but the contractor could neet meet all his obligations and the Navy took back the ship. The Oklahoma City was at Port Hueneme for use as a target ship for years. She was then towed up to Susuin Bay and storage in the Mothball Fleet, which is about 20 -30 miles away from Mare Island. Although local groups would like to preserve her as a musuem ship, from what I saw she had been stripped pretty well for use as a target, although she showed no damage from that duty. A sister ship of the Oklahoma City, the USS Little Rock (CLG-4) is preserved at Buffalo, New York. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/200 scale R/C ships The Yamato is by far the best choice for a R/C kit in this scale. She is easily radio controlled, and being a kit is a fairly quick build. The potential for super detailing is great, and a photo etch set from Gold Medal Models is available. I am not sure if it is still in production, but I have seen them on ebay.com several times. If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, I saw one at San Antonio Hobbies the day after Christmas. They said it had been started, and were asking 99.95 for it. A bit more complex are Aeronaut models out of Germany. They make the larger surface units of the Kriegsmarine - Bismarck, Scharnhorst, Prinz Eugen, Graf Spee, Nurnburg. The newer kits have a plastic vac-formed hull, and some very nice injected plastic details. Older kits require you to fashion many details out of wood bits included. They go in and out of availability. Again, you can try ebay - I have seen the Tirpitz there, and recently purchased a Nurnburg. I have seen a couple of units mentioned in ads for shops in England - check Marine Modelling magazine. There is a kit for the USS Missouri in 1/192 scale by an American manufacturer, Stirling, that has recently been upgraded. It too requires some wood working, partiuclarly in the hull. The Scale Shipyard does make a fiberglass hull to substitute, as well as some resin detail upgrade parts. Finally, there is a british manufacturer of 1/192 hulls and parts. I remember seeing ads for the line several years ago, and I think a shop called Midway Models distributed them. Hope this helps! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography (Who just got his 1/100 scale Scharnhorst hull!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: R/C Yamato >> Is the Battleship Yamato I:200 Injection Molded kit by Nichimo is a radio control ship? If it is who sell it? << The 1/200 scale Yamato you speak of is (was) made by Nichimo and it comes ready for radio control conversion as I recall. You should be able to buy it through Hobby Link Japan. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Camouflage colors of the Graf Spee Going through the back issues, I noticed mention of the use of green in the camouflage of the GRAF SPEE. The story of how this came about is interesting and goes as follows:- In the late 1960s the Imperial War museum put together the "39 Exhibition". One of the models (GRAF SPEE) was especially built for the display. The museums model curator asked Alan Raven what the camouflage colors of the GRAF SPEE were. Raven replied by saying that he was not sure, the curator then suggested that perhaps the colors used green. Raven said that they MIGHT be but could not be sure. The finished model which was put on display as part of the exhibition was painted in green camouflage! At a later date when the artwork for the Profile publication was in preparation, The artist responsible asked Alan Raven what the colors of the GRAF SPEE were, he replied by saying that he did not know and to check with the author. As an additional reference the model held in the War Museum might be useful but should not be used for camouflage purposes. The artist went to see the model. The finished artwork that was printed in the Profile took the colors directly from the model! ------------and thus a false legend was born, one that I suspect will outlive any counter. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: James Corley Subject: Re: In the scrapyard... >> I was driving by the old Mare Island naval base the other day and noticed a couple of WWII era ships in the boneyard awaiting scrapping. I was wondering of anybody who follows this sort of thing could put a name of the profiles. One looked to be an Essex class carrier retrofitted with angled flight deck, etc. The other even more interesting ship was, I think, a Cleveland class cruiser with only the #1 turret in place, the #2 turret removed to make room for a bridge extension and the rear half of the ship totally rebuilt to carry Terrier or Talos missiles. I couldn't see the missile launcher(s) itself but the guidance system was there. The cruiser was a really interesting looking ship and I thought has great potential for some kitbashing. << Sounds like the OkieBoat (USS Oklahoma City) is finally realizing her fate as razor blades.... :( I had really hoped they could get a drive together and float her up the river to Muskogee to be berthed near the Batfish. Too bad, another WW2 ship, albeit converted, bites the dust. Of course, if she were next to the Hornet (the CV you saw) there may be a small sliver of hope that she'll join the Hornet's museum flotilla. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Wheelers" Subject: Painting in relief Hi folks I have the 1/72nd scale HMS Bluebell - the decks are moulded with the gaps between deck timbers standing up above the surface of the decks. How does one paint such a deck? Normally a dark wash would settle down in the gaps between the timbers, or one could dry brush the timbers themselves to make them stand out against the background colo(u)r painted first. But with everything backwards - dry brushing doesn't work, because the timbers are too wide and catch some of the colour. Any ideas? Thanks! Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: FOP5@aol.com Subject: Oceanliner Models This is FOP5@aol.com I'm looking for ocenliner models past & present. I have QE-2, All the Titanic models, Lusitiania, SS.United States, France, Norway, But I can not find anyother ones like Andera Doria, ill de France etc. Past ocean liner kits or other of the new type oceanliners can anyone help do you know where I could find out more if there are ones I only do these type of models, I read on e-mail messages about Tom or Thomas model works does any one have the e-mail they can send me so I could inquire to him if maybe he can help. Also like tugs have trouble finding any good ones I would be very greatiful for any help Thank you -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: A suggestion for added value... Hi all, I would like to suggest that some brave soul try and write a digest of the considered opinion of the group on topics that were discussed at length in SMML, so that we can refer to it without having to browse tens of threaded messages in the archives. A few topics come to mind: * color of the Bismark's turret tops * color of the Graf Spee's decks * etc. Any volunteer? Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "joseph w. reyna" Subject: Re: VERY Good news from Heller... :'))))))) Fellow SMML-ites, Regarding the reported new 1/400 scale De GAULLE nuclear carrier kit upcoming from Heller..... I've got my calendar marked prominently in the month of April, when the kit is scheduled to arrive, and I'll gladly purchase two armfuls of this kit when it appears. This new subject may not gladden the hearts of all model shipwrights, but it should. For a company like Heller to venture out with a brand new ship model kit after so long a period since its last new issue (anyone remember when/what it was?) is a balm to ship modelers, particularly we few, proud 1/400 scale junkies. Whatever Heller's price on the DeGAULLE, it will certainly be affordable when compared to similar-sized resin kits (and with photo-etched brass after market upgrades, dare I hope for something competitive in detail?), and if we can continue to reward Heller with strong sales (as Jean-Paul's reference to high sales of Heller's CLEMENCEAU indicates), Heller may be emboldened to expand their range of subjects. Perhaps HMS ARK ROYAL (WW II), USS ENTERPRISE (again, WW II), USS MISSOURI, French carrier BEARN, HMS EXETER WW II cruiser, etc. etc. etc. In the meantime, I'm hoping Heller's announcement meets it's intended April delivery - I still remember Italeri's promised DeGAULLE carrier (still waiting?), as well as Tamiya's alledged USS ESSEX. We can only hope. Cheers, and Happy New Year. Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Caribbean Sun" Subject: Blue Water Navy... USS Kidd Kit. Help! I opened this kit that I bought several years ago and found that I am missing the Bridge House (resin) and I can't find and address on the web to request a new part. Does anyone have their email address? Gary Grouell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: photos Photos of RN Mielayers and Destroyers. Profile 38 (ABDIEL-Class Minelayers) has numerous shots of the class, specifically: ABDIEL early 43 (port beam and stbd quarter - Admiralty Disruptive camouflage), March 41 (stbd beam - medium grey overall) LATONA (note that she wasn't completed until May 41, so 1940 shots are only in the fitting-out basin) April 41 (port bow - light grey panel on top part of darker grey hull, light grey upperworks, white (?) upper funnels) MANXMAN June 41 (port beam - medium grey overall), April 42 (stbd bow - geometric camouflage) WELSHMAN August 41, (stbd bow - Admiralty Disruptive camouflage), May 42 (both sides - disguised as Vichy French contre-torpeilleur), Dec 42 (stbd bow - same Admiralty Disruptive camouflage as before with slight changes), July 42 (port beam - light grey overall) "Warship 1994" has an article on the class, with some of the same photos. In addition, it includes another shot of MANXMAN July 41 (stbd bow - medium grey overall), and a further one of WELSHMAN May 42, (stbd beam - disguised as Vichy French contre-torpeilleur) As for the destroyers, there is a stbd side shot of JANUS in December 43 in "Mediterranean Maelstrom", showing her in an angular 2-colour scheme. JAVELIN is shown in a port bow shot in "Warship" vol 15, but the photo is too indistinct to make out much of the camouflage; it appears to be another angular 2-colour scheme. The caption says 1942. JERVIS wore a wide variety of colour schemes, although I have no photos dated 1943, and no evidence of which scheme(s) she wore in 1943. LANCE appears in "Fighting Flotilla", with 2 shots, both in dark hull/light upperworks scheme, both probably taken in 1941, plus a shot in a flooded Malta drydock after being bombed, probably in the same scheme. ITHURIEL appears in both "AMAZON to IVANHOE" and "Destroyers of the Royal Navy". Both photos are undated, and show her in a 3(?)-coloured scheme from the port side. Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Wheelers" Subject: Wanted : Surface radio I am looking for a surface (75Mhz) four Channel stick radio - preferably second hand. All of the hobby stores, even the online ones, have lots of air frequencies, but only 2 channel surface (or three channel pistol grip). I also searched ebay.com and buysell.com and none were surface frequency. Anyone in western Canada/north west USA have one to sell? I want to make my lights light and my whistles whistle! Thanks Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume