Subject SMML07/01/99VOL418 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 01:06:27 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Scharnhorst tonnage 2: Jim Shirley Productions 3: Battleship or Battlecruiser? 4: Re: Z 33 & "Black Friday" 5: RMS Olympic colours 6: Re: Warped resin fix 7: Re: Making rivets 8: Re: U-47 in Norway 9: Re: Ron29 PTs 10: Re: resin warpage 11: HMS Canada 12: Scale Ship Modeler Magazine 13: Re: Ensigns, Jacks, Signal Flags & Shapes 14: Re: Rivets 15: Re: Watching and learning & resin warpage 16: Re: Signal Flags & Shapes 17: Re: Captain class frigates 18: Re: Rivets 19: Re: Rivets... 20: Re: HMS Lion 21: Re: Ensigns, Kacks, Signal Flags and Shapes 22: Re: Taubman Plans, was USS CIMARROM & HMS LION 23: Edmund Fitzgerald 24: Re: Surface RC set (SMML03/01/99Vol414) 25: Re: Online Bookstores (SMML04/01/99Vol415) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: H.M.S. Glorious -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: Scharnhorst tonnage The Germans were not tied to the Washington treaty of 1922, but had to restrict their ships to the Versaille treaty, limiting their ships to 10,000 tons, and 11" armament. The Scharnhorst design was eventually enlarged, after the Nazi party denounced the treaty of Versaille, but a larger than 11" armament was not allowed, and even the third turret barely managed to be squeezed into the design. Scharnhorst displaced 32.358 at standard displacement, and even 39,643 tons during wartime operations. That a "true" battleship should withstand a 14" penetration through her decks I find debatable, not only because the armouring over the boiler- and turbine room is as heavy as on the Bismarck (although sometimes 5mm lighter), also because Scharnhorst took 11 torpedoes and many direct hits before sinking. Although the underwater protection left much to be desired, cruiser do generally not survive that many torpedoes, as their slimmer hulls make an effective torpedodefense much more difficult Secondly, the Germans did not adopt the all-or-nothing armouring sceme, used by the other nations, thus deliberately exposing the deck area's to a long range plunging heavy calibre shell. This is a matter of design philosophy, as there are no fixed rules for battleship design. And yes, where is that Renown model (1/350)? Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Allan Salas Subject: Jim Shirley Productions Hello everyone; I need some feedback for a potential project. I've built several 1/700 resin ship kits from different manfacturers and have been generally pleased with the quality of the kits. I'm considering a project using a kit from Jim Shirley Productions and would like to know if anyone out there has any experience with this manufacturer, product quality wise. I've replaced masts with brass rod and have placed photo etched accessorires as needed, but I get the feeling from published kit reviews that with this manufacturer, more work (kit bashing) may be necessary when completing one of these kits. As these are not inexpensive kits, I would like to get some idea as to what I'm getting in to. I guess I'm looking for a critique on castings and overall completness. Your impressions will be appreciated. Allan Happy Holidays On a personal note. When I didn't see my morning e-mail with all the great comments and observations I almost went into withdrawls. This modelers format is almost a fix for many of us and for me a reading companion with my morning coffee. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: tomkremer Subject: Battleship or Battlecruiser? My thoughts on the "proper" designation for Gseisenau and Scharnhorst are that they should be labeled as battlecruisers, no matter how the German Navy referred to them. At the time they were laid down in 1935 the "line of battle" and the traditional gunnery engagement were still central to Naval thinking and planning and to my mind a battleship was a ship designed to stand against other battleships in that type of engagement. The undergunned German ships would have been totally outclassed at any range in a battle line against the older generation of "dreadnought" battleships like the Queen Elizabeth or Maryland class, let alone contemporary "treaty" battleships of roughly equal displacement like North Carolina or King George V. Best regards, Tom Kremer P.S. I just today discovered a new modeling tip... I had a bunch of small pieces that had to be removed from the sprue to trim and sand all the mold marks. For painting I stuck them to a piece of cardboard with double sided tape (left over from one of those 3M window insulation kits) to hold them upright and keep them from blowing away while I airbrushed. Worked great and very fast! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: Re: Z 33 & "Black Friday" To Kyrre Ingebrethsen: In your recent post concerning Z 33, you mention wanting to build her as she was at the time of "Black Friday" - and then wondering if it indeed was a Friday. I'm wondering if this is a reference to the Battle of the North Cape, when, before the actual battle began, Z 33 (Capt. Erich Holtorf commanding) was part of the 4th Destroyer Flotilla escorting the Scharnhorst. I believe the battle itself - on Dec. 26, 1943 - took place on a Sunday but I might be wrong about this. The sortie began on Christmas Day ("Operation Ostfront") which would then have been a Saturday. The only other major fleet action I know of in which Z 33 was engaged, however, was certainly dismal enough for it also to be called "Black Friday" - if indeed it took place on that day. This was "Operation Zitronella", the shore bombardment of Spitzbergen by Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and ten destroyers on 6-7 September, 1943. The shooting done by the big ships was generally poor and, worse, the relatively puny shore defences did some damage to the German ships. Z 33 had to be taken in tow while Z 29 had to shelter in Tirpitz's lee to patch up shell holes in her sides - not a very good day for the Kriegsmarine to be sure! BTW, there is a very nice picture of Z 33, apparently lying in a Norwegian fjord heavily camouflaged, in H.T. Lenton's German Surface Vessels vol.1. Good luck with your project. John Maine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Joseph R. Boeke" Subject: RMS Olympic colours I am forwarding this question for a colleague who builds mostly WWI model aircraft. He is preparing to convert the Revell Titanic into the Olympic and would appreciate any responses/leads. Thanks, Joe -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Chris Banyai-Riepl herper@willapabay.org Howdy! First, I want to thank everyone for all the information on this. I'm not normally a ship modeler, but I am getting excited about doing this kit now. Too bad it's not in my usual scale of 1/72... Now on to the questions. I've started accumulating a large number of images from the net, and I have several showing the dazzle paint scheme. But I have some questions as to the colors of this scheme. I know that when the war broke out, the Olympic was painted gray in New York. Upon returning to England, she was painted in the dazzle scheme. Of course, there is no color pictures of the Olympic in this scheme, so all I have to go by is black and white photos and a couple of postcard paintings that I've found. One of these postcard paintings shows the Olympic painted yellow or cream, with red and blue in the dazzle pattern. The other postcard shows the dazzle scheme in grays, white, black, and blue, which seems more likely. I have two pictures of the Olympic showing a pattern that matches this last postcard painting (one of the pictures actually shows the same arrangement of troops on the ship), so I at least know the pattern is close in shape. But then I have another picture of the Olympic in a dazzle scheme that doesn't match either of the other two pictures. Of the other two pictures, one of them shows the dazzle paint scheme in a pretty bad state. Does anyone have any information on how many times the Olympic was painted, and did the dazzle paint scheme during WWI have a set number and type of colors, and did this change during the war? Also, when they painted ships with a dazzle scheme, did they leave the bottom in hull red, or was it painted gray? OK, that's it for now. I'm going to try and figure out the best way to do the open promenade deck now. Chris Banyai-Riepl Publisher/Editor Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Warped resin fix >> The rear deck (after the large rear superstructure) bows upward quite noticeably. I have heard stories of using hot or warm water... how does one go about straightening this hull? << Rob, Dipping the model in hot water (just this side of boiling) will quickly soften resin parts. Of course the thicker the part the longer it takes to soften up. I cured a warp like this one. I dipped the model in hot water for a few minutes and placed it on my work bench. I then carefully put enough World Books (that's all they're good for anyway) on top of the hull to pin it down to the table. After several hours it bent back perfectly straight. Just make sure not to damage any delicate parts on the deck. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Making rivets << I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I'm building a a 1:48 Turbinia and need to know if anyone has perfected a method of making rivets on the hull plates other than applying drops of CA and crossing one's fingers that the dots come out uniform.>> First, yeah, you are a glutton for punishment. I've had a lot of success making rivets from using stretched sprue. Just make the sprue the diameter you want and apply heat to the end of the sprue. The heat causes the sprue to round off. You can then carefully trim the round section with a Xacto knife and apply it to the model. I hope you have nothing else to do for the next 20 years! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: U-47 in Norway "Zapper" writes: >> 2. Günter Prien roamed these waters in April '40. From my window back home in Harstad I can see the point where U-47 got stuck on a sandbank April 16, just off the island of Rolla. He managed to get afloat again after cunningly leading the allied ships present to believe he was British by using light morse signals. That's the story as I know it. Has anyone anything to add? I just read this in a local book, and I was wondering if this is the official story? << According to "Enemy Submarine" by Wolfgang Frank, a trawler signaled to U-47 in morse while the boat was stuck on the sand bar. The Signals Officer suggested replying to mislead them. Prien countered, ordering that no reply should be made - hoping that the trawler would not know what it was looking at, maybe mistaking the sub for a rock or buoy. Whether this occured or not, no alarm was raised and U-47 succeeded in getting loose and escaping from the fjord. I also checked Clair Blair's "Hitler's U-Boat War" - Vol. 1, which repeats the incident of the grounding in detail - except there is no mention of a trawler or of any morse signals directed toward the U-Boat. One could assume that the signals from the trawler that Prien saw and reported were probably directed to another ship and that the presence of U-47 was not detected. Sounds as if some embellishment was added to the account that you read. >> To add some modelling to this, could you tell me the state of the U-boot at this time? >Did he still have the bull on the conning-tower? How about colours and camouflage? << As for the bull insignia, in "Enemy Submarine" there is a photo allegedly taken on the day that U-47 departed on her final patrol, that clearly shows the "Bull of Scapa Flow" insignia still in place on the conning tower. Only a small portion of the conning tower is visible and is in a solid (dark gray ?) color - no camouflage pattern. However, this does not mean much, as the photo was taken (if dated correctly) at a later date. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Ron29 PTs From another source (identity withheld at the moment) comes the information that the boats repainted in Ms.16 did not use Thayer Blue, but rather "Robin's Egg Blue". I'll try to follow up more on this, see if I can come up with a Munsell reference, etc. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: resin warpage I've straightened several warped resin hulls using the following method. A container large enough to hold the hull and also capable of sustaining high heat is required. I use a 9" Pyrex baking dish most of the time. The hull is placed in the container and covered with boiling water. After sitting a few minutes in the water, remove the hull (watch your fingers, it's hot!) and place it on a flat surface, i.e. a nearby countertop. Almost always, the warp has settled out of the hull on its own. Don't move the hull for awhile, let it cool and re-harden. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com Subject: HMS Canada Dear SMML, Where can I find information and photos about HMS Canada in the WW1? I have the "British Battleships of Of World War One" (R.A. Burt) from Naval Institute Press but I need more information about tripod and its platforms. Did anyone have relatives sailing on this ship? Regards, Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RVanda1839@aol.com Subject: Scale Ship Modeler Magazine Just talked to a lady at the subscription office for Challenge Publications. Seems I renewed my subscription to SSM just before they merged it with another magazine (which I first heard about on this list). To cut to the chase, the lady said they are going to bring back SSM with the May/June 99 issue. If you want or need to talk to them call 1-800-562-9182 (9-5 PST). I wonder--do ship modelers have a lobby group or a Patron Saint looking over our interests? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: Ensigns, Jacks, Signal Flags & Shapes Thanks to John Burch for his excellent post. I was thinking along the same lines today -- very strange! There are a number of books on signal flags - none of which I own - ranging from "The Watch Officer's Guide" to ATP-1B Volume 2 (?), found on the bridge of NATO ships. A good reference on lights and dayshapes would be the International Rules of the Road, probably available at a good library, yachting supply shop, or maybe even on the World Wide Web these days. All I could find was my old copy of Crensaw's "Naval Shiphandling" which includes some examples: Vessel restricted in manuverability, not under command: displays red light over red light at night (we used to memorize things like "red over red, the captain is dead") and two black balls in daylight (these were about the size of a beachball and made of cloth over a wire frame). Vessel restricted in manuverability or towing: red over white over red, or black ball over diamond over black ball. Vessel aground: red over red, or three black balls. But anyway, my question also was as to the practice of flying flags and ensigns in the RN and other Commonwealth navies (if there are any deviations from British practice), German navy, and Imperial Russian/Soviet/modern Russian navies. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Rivets >> I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I'm building a a 1:48 Turbinia and need to know if anyone has perfected a method of making rivets on the hull plates other than applying drops of CA and crossing one's fingers that the dots come out uniform. << I never had any luck with the drops of CA for making rivets, either. There are a couple of techniques you can try. Check out a neat little tool called a pounce wheel. These are available at cloth and embroidery shops or shops catering to sewing. They are also available mail order from Micro-Mark. These are star shaped wheels, pointed on the end, that are mounted in a handle so that they can be rolled. There are different wheels with different spacings and different numbers of points, so maybe you can find one with spacing close enough to produce the rivet pattern you need. These will produce excellent looking rivets in thin sheet plastic or metal. You will probably have to make the rivets in a sheet of plastic or metal, cut them out in thin strips or panels the size of the hull plates, and glue them to the hull. Another, and a good bit more expensive alternative, is a tool called The Riveter. This tool has a table and punches for embossing rivets with as little as .001 of an inch spacing. It also must be used in conjunction with another tool called The Sensi-press. I believe the manufacturer of these tools is North West Short Line. They advertise in a lot of model railroad magazines, but Micro-Mark also carries these tools. Again, you would probably have to make your rivets in strips or plates, cut them out, and attach them to the hull. Micro-Mark is a very good mail order source for lots of neat tools. If you are not familiar with them, go to their web page and request a free catalog. I am connected to Micro-Mark in no way other than as a satisfied customer. Their URL is: http:/www.micromark.com Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Watching and learning & resin warpage >> Rusty makes some excellent points about keeping the lines of communications open if you have a problem with a product or a question that needs to be answered by the manufacturer. << I agree, communication & customer service are king. The problem I had was not communication. I sent letters and made phone calls, later email was involved. The problem arose when the company refused to acknowledge it had any responsibility to provide a complete product. Heck, I have heard similar stories about an incident when another company bought a product to resell, which was lacking most (the brass flight deck!) of the photoetch. The producer actually accused the reseller of stealing the brass in an effort to increase the cost, and thereby lower the profit, of said item....or so I was told by the reseller. >> Hey, I'm just as human as the next guy and we sometimes become busy and, well, you know the rest. [snip]Most model makers own a very small shop with usually 1 person doing the work of 10 people. On top of this, they also need to be their own PR department and answer questions from their customers via email, phone, and snail-mail.[snip] You will probably find that you have not been ignored but the manufacturer was simply either too busy or just plain forgot. And do not forget the #1 rule: Always be polite! You will get much more from us if you are polite than if you scream and rant. << And what happens when a producer ignores repeated requests for replacements? What is the "appropriate" response by a disgruntled consumer? A local consumer guru, Clark Howard, reccomends (in a retail situation) showing up on Saturday and being pleasant but forceful in the store. If that fails, then picket. Since we are a cottage industry spread over two continents that is difficult. The best thing any company can get is word-of-mouth advertising....it is free and carries a lot of weight. It can also be the worst thing. I regret the fellow's decision not to buy a BWN item based on what I said. I was speaking under the assumption that he had already purchased the item and needed replacements and simply relayed my tribulations to him. Since Charlie sent my replacement parts (kit!), I havent had the need to obtain further parts for my other BWN kits. In fact, the HOUSTON was the ONLY kit of his that I've had any problem with, and it was finally corrected, with interest. I hope Mike can continue the customer service Charlie provided, but I have not had any indication (good or bad) that this is happening so my input was based on past experience. >> From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Mail order problem solution Also, if this is a mail order company (I assume), you can file a complaint with your local Postmaster. The PO really takes this stuff seriously. I don't know any of the particulars, but this could be a federal crime if the transaction was made through the US Mail or delivered via the PO. They have investigators who do nothing else but follow up on complaints. << Might as well try this route, we are already paying for their salaries! >> From: Steven Rogers Subject: BWN - He no monster...He misunderstood ! Shows to go...I have had only excellent service from Mike Bishop. So far, I've bought his Perry class frigate, Burke class DDG, and a Russian sub. I also have his 1/350 decal sheets. I purchased direct off his site at the NAVIS page. The SoDak is next !!! I need a few more pennies to complete my Nov. 1942 campaign. << Goes to what I said above, but did you need to obtain replacement parts? and now for something completely different, a man with 3 buttocks....well, anyway.... >> 12) From: Rob & Heather Weilacher Subject: Resin Warpage I have aquired a kit which appears to be warped - it is a Classic Warships 1944 San Francisco in 1/700. The rear deck (after the large rear superstructure) bows upward quite noticably. I have heard stories of using hot or warm water... how does one go about straighting this hull? << One solution FOR A WATERLINE KIT would be to put the model in a plastic tub or other flat bottomed container with weights that WONT float, run hot water (100-120F) into the tub while in the bathtub letting it overflow the tub. This allows for continuous temp (until the HW heater is dry) and will let the model slowly dewarp back to a flat-bottom waterline kit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: Signal Flags & Shapes In response to John Burch's questions regarding signal flags and daymark shapes, a good source of information on the flags and their meanings is from the US Navy Info Office at: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/communications/flags/flags.html The page gives Navy & international meanings to the flags. Most US Navy ships flew two or three code flags to identfy them to the fleet commander. You're right about the FOX flag indicating flight operations. Another easily identifiable flag is BRAVO, a red swallowtail indicating loading/unloading of hazardous material (i.e. ordnance). Thats a good one for a diorama. As far as daymark shapes -- I suggest you locate a copy of the Nautical Rules of the Road. I don't remember all of them, but I do remember that a vessel which is towing another shows one or two black diamonds depending on the overall length of the tow. There are other daymark shapes and their corresponding lights. I hope this helps. Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Captain class frigates Hi Guys I have some information about the RN Buckeley class or Captain class frigates. It would seem that the armament was 3-3/50 guns,8-10,20mm guns, Hedge hogs and 160 depth charges. A 2 pdr gun for dealing with the e-boats was put on the bow. My reference is Conway's fighting ships 1922-46 that also adds 8 frigates received the 40 mm twin gun, 3 later received 7-single bofor guns and 1 received 2 single bofors. Also in 1944 a depth charge that had 1 ton of explosives and weighed 3,050 lb. was developed and these frigates carried 2 each called the mark 10. The 8 frigates were BENTINCK,BRAITHWAITE,BYARD,CALDER,CURZON,DUCKWORTH,DUFF,and EDDINGTON. The other 3 frigates were CALDER,DUCKWORTH,and ESSINGTON. The mentioned 1 frigate was CUBITT. The frigate HOTHAM remained active until 1956 and was used to test gas turbine experiments. BTW do I have a story for you about the postal service. Back in the early 90's I joined IPMS and at that time the IPMS Journal had a column called Sea Views by Larry Gertner he used to do articles on scratch building ships with drawings and camouflage information. So he did this and he got divorced so he couldn't do it any more. Well, I tried to pick up the ball and carry it on. I basically just sent in new kit releases information, also photos. They did use the ones on the liberty ship JOHN W. BROWN and the sailing ship NINA. That was it. Then they lost my subscription and didn't cash the check. I asked what they wanted from me and they picked another guy as well for the column and after waiting 2 months I went to the postmaster here in town, it produced results. An after a couple letters agreement took place between them and me. However since they didn't want me I waited for my subscription to elapse and they have a policy that when your done they send everything back you gave them. They didn't do it. So I wrote them a letter that was politely specific. I wanted those pictures. I gave them a time limit and 4 days later I got 'em back. It seemed (then) that the editor forgot to mail them and apologized for the delay. That's what's good about the Post Office. I hope the frigate information helps. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Rivets >> I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I'm building a a 1:48 Turbinia and need to know if anyone has perfected a method of making rivets on the hull plates other than applying drops of CA and crossing one's fingers that the dots come out uniform. << Try Grandt Line Rivets. They should be available in any good hobby shop that caters to the model railroad trade. The are also available on line from several sources. Basically they consist of sprues of injection molded rivets, with a few different sizes available. I believe that Aber also makes rivets. They are a Polish Co, that is imported by several local suppliers. If you can't find them, ask around on R.M.S. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ingebrethsen, Kyrre" Subject: Re: Rivets... I'm definitely no expert on rivets, but I have a suggestion. This still involves using superglue, though. Start with a sheet of thin plastic-card. Use a ruler, draw a line, mark the desired distance between rivets. Punch holes, either with a needle or perhaps a ball-less ballpoint pen. Okay, you've made the jig. Now put lengths of Scotch tape over the rivetholes. Punch holes in the tape, put tape on model, put glue on holes in tape, remove tape from model. Tape goes, glue stays. All nice and orderly. Proceed. Haven't tried it, but it could work. I think. Good luck, Kyrre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Lion Hello SMML, There is a photograph of HMS Lion supposedly taken during her return from the Battle of Jutland in R.A. Burt's British Battleships of World War I. Since Q turret looks damaged, I believe the caption to the photograph (which bears no credit, not unusual for a Burt book). The photograph seems to show her with torpedo nets, which I find amazing for a British ship as late as Jutland. For me, it's very hard to tell anything about the way she was painted up at the time; she looks a bit dark, but that could be the light. Hope this helps a little.... Cheers, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: KoopmaFS@utrc.utc.com Subject: Re: Ensigns, Kacks, Signal Flags and Shapes >> 8) Why is the battle gaff on WW II FLETCHERs and IOWAs (to mention only two examples) mounted low on the after stack? << U.S. ships, in times of war, always fly the Ensign from the mainmast. The mainmast is defined as the only mast on a single masted ship, the aft mast on a two masted ship, or the middle mast on a ship with three masts. In the case of the Fletchers and Iowas, they are two masted vessels with their aft pole masts mounted on their stacks. The fact that these masts are real short is simply to alleviate interference with the primary radar equipment on the foremast. However, despite their lack of hight, they are still technically the mainmast, and thus the ensign is flown from there. Regards Fritz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "David & Alicja Lombard" Subject: Re: Taubman Plans, was USS CIMARROM & HMS LION >> Taubman lists plans for both ships in 1/144 and one for LION in 1/16. $12-$25. Try at http://www.modelersboatyard.com/taubmans/taubman1.htm . Then search for your ship. I have never seen one of their plans, can anyone comment? << Abe Taubman sells plans from many sources, the source of each plan is listed in his printed catalog. The plans that I have gotten, ORP GROMM and ATLAS II, are both very good. I lusted for many other plans when he was at the SMA Conference on the QUEEN MARY in Long Beach, California last year. He's a good guy. I have no connection with him other than being a very satisfied customer. David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: FOP5@aol.com Subject: Edmund Fitzgerald Yes my computer crashed and I have gotten the SMML e-mail if I want to put a message on to get information like looking for a model of the Edmond Fitzgerald can anyone help what do i do just e-mail you here. and I want to also thank you I was able to make contact with people on the site and they help me get a couple of ocean liner model including the Normandie. But now looking for The Big Fitz model (Edmond Fitzgerald please contact me on what I have to do. Always look forward for e-mail from SMML great information there and I'm glad I joined. thank you for time and help. Carmen J. Balsama Sr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "David & Alicja Lombard" Subject: Re: Surface RC set (SMML03/01/99Vol414) >> I am looking for a surface (75Mhz) four Channel stick radio - preferably second hand. All of the hobby stores, even the online ones, have lots of air frequencies, but only 2 channel surface (or three channel pistol grip). << Gee, shouldn't be that hard to get a new one. Try an Airtronics Vanguard FM, Model VG4R. I just bought one from Hobby Shack (several Southern Calif stores) last year. US$140 IIRC. Futaba also makes a 4CH unit. Ace makes (made?!) a very nice TX and RX for boats (horizontal 1-axis stick for rudder, two adjacent vertical 1-axis sticks for motors), with your choice of other controls for 5 or 7 channels and your choice of connectors for servos. You provide the servos. No matter what brand, old or new, try to get FM set, they're much more stable than AM radios. At the lake we use, the AM radios are sometimes so noisy as to be unusable. David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "David & Alicja Lombard" Subject: Re: Online Bookstores (SMML04/01/99Vol415) >> In recent issues of SMML, several list members mentioned a number of on-line bookstores that had particularly good selections of ship-related books for sale. Would any of you be so kind as to repost the names and URLs of these bookstores? Thanks so much for your time and effort! << New books: http://www.hamiltonbook.com/ A *great* source for new books at reduced prices. Their print catalog is complete, the online version is not as complete, but a snap to search. No plastic, US shipping only, excellent customer service. http://www.amazon.com Also excellent service for in-print books. Used or out-of-print is a different story--I don't. http://www.seabooks.com/ Was recommended, I have no direct experience. http://www.powells.com/ Was recommended, I have no direct experience. Used or out-of-print books: http://www.tco.com/pierbooks/ No online search, email contact for "manual" search. http://www.abebooks.com This is a listing of books from many, many bookdealers, so you're dealing with individual shops. I've had very good experiences with several purchases through them. http://www.bibliofind.com Again, listings from multiple book stores worldwide. Happy book hunting! David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: H.M.S. Glorious UK Folks: Channel 4 is showing H.M.S. Glorious in the Secret History series, on Thursday 07/01/99 at 20.00 GMT. I've seen the program at least 3 times now, but its well worth watching. Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume