Subject SMML11/01/99VOL422 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:47:17 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: PT colors 2: Re: Caroline Carter 3: Re: PT Boat colors 4: Re: A judges reply 5: Re: Fletcher mast 6: More on Z33 and Black Friday 7: Re: Fixing Waterline Warpage 8: Re: 1/700 Torpedo nets 9: A rookies USS Honolulu 10: 1/400 HMS Hood 11: 1942 USS Honolulu 12: Two Askolds 13: HMS Invincible kit 14: An Apology to Scale Shipyards/Lee Upshaw. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Navismagazine.com - JANUARY 1999 2: Atlantic Models announcement 3: UPDATED WEM WEB PAGES 4: Warship Update 5: Re: USS Honolulu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:51:36 EST Subject: Re: PT colors >> With regard to that red stripe at the stern, the caption in Chun seems to imply that this applied to Ron 15 boats rather than to Med boat in general. << Perhaps the simplest way to ascertain if these colors were in fact used would be to contact PT Boats Inc and ask them. I've never seen any official mention of this color scheme (which doesn't mean that it didn't exist), so cannot comfortably comment either way. Given that the Italian Navy used a series of diagonal red and white stripes on the deck forward on many of its ships, including MAS boats, one might question the USN's use of a similar scheme. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Caroline Carter Dear Caroline; PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE- a nice resin kit of the Imperial Russian pre- dreadnaught battleship Tssessarevich, (or Czarevich ), of 1905. My all around favorite warship of the last 4000 years !!!!!!!! Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: Re: PT Boat colors John: The photo of PT 557 on pg 42 in Chun's book seems to have a distictly lighter color on the bow, and on pg 44, the Elcos all have the bow stripe, and the pennant numbers that are readable, 551 and 553 (1st and 3rd boat from the wharf) are Ron 29, and the 2nd boat has the shadow of the 4 20mm guns of a thunderbolt on its stern(look to right of radome of the 1st boat). The 559 boat on pg 46 does not show the stripe, but since it appears to be a monochromatic paint job, it may still be in overall green. I read the caption originally as you did, but after seeing the photo on pg44, and being an old aircraft modeller it occured to me that recognition markings are usually theater wide, like yellow wing or tail stripes, or all white tails -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: A judges reply >> I've never really liked judges especially when I know more than they do, and when I was a judge I never even liked ME. So let me give everyone the definitive word on how to rig correctly to scale, and any one who disagrees with me must be a judge! << I can see why he doesn't like judges. Unless the judges do things his way(after all, HE'S the authority) then the judges are all morons. Well, maybe he knows a lot than I about properly rigging ships, but I know of at least three different methods and materials for rigging that work very well. Stretched sprue works beautifully and gives a realistic sag to the lines. The clear mono-filament sewing thread (what I use) is very tough and is not affected by temperature changes from my experience. I even know a guy who uses panty hose fibers! Talk about realistic scale thickness. It works for him because he has so much experience with it. The point is, just because a technique has worked for you all these years certainly doesn't make it the only acceptable technique that should be accepted by contest judges. I am learning all the time and I learned a new(and maybe better) technique to rig ships here. I'll try and judge (there's that J word) for myself how well it works. >> The above method works because I have used it successfully for the past 40 years, and so I don't want any arguments, here endeth the lesson. << I don't know what this fellows gripe is with judges who have the audacity to judge his technique inferior to others and personally I don't care. It's too bad he doesn't like someone he has never met, but that's okay. Here it is from the horses mouth. Techniques are not judged. Results are. I don't care if you use surgeons thread or horse nose hair to rig you model. I know a guy who uses cat whiskers for whip antennas! I judge rigging by the results. Now about that sagging rigging Vs straight rigging stuff. Once again, I don't care. As long as ALL the rigging sags no problem. If some rigging sags while others don't it will be judged accordingly. I'm sure the fellow here will stand up and say "some rigging sags and some don't". There are so many ways to rig so many different vessels you would need nautical engineers to judge ship categories. That's not going to happen so I go with the best, most qualified ship builders I can get at the National level. There's a lot I don't know about ships but he will just have to put up with the stupidity of morons like me. I've said it before. If you do anything on a model that that you want pointed out to the judges (like the rigging for example) add a photo under the model or a note asking us to see the correct way you performed the rigging. It will work to your advantage every time. Here endith the lesson. Rusty White Head Ship Judge 1998 Nationals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Fletcher mast >> Is the gaff found on the aft stack of wartime Fletchers really considered a mast? << Any mast or structure on a ship that has yardarms is considered a mast. The aft mast has a large yardarm below the top of the funnel as you can see. Rusty White Flagship Models inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Clements Subject: More on Z33 and Black Friday John Maine has cleared up the mystery (to me) of the date of Black Friday, but there is another comntradiction. I recall that Kyrre in his original entry said that Z33 was undamaged in the attack, but the mention of the incident in Whitley's 'Destroyer', which I only realised referred to Black Friday after John's message, states that Z33 was towed into Trondheim afterwards and therefore did not proceed to Germany until early March. This would indicate that some damage must have been suffered. It would be interesting if more details of these operations off Norway in early 1945 were available, as not much has appeared in print, or at least not in easily available sources of which I am aware - not quite the same thing! John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Fixing Waterline Warpage One way of getting waterlines to remain flat is to superglue or epoxy a layer of birdshot on the waterline baseplate, (avoiding areas where a hull bulkhead will touch). When the baseplate is fully dry, add a layer of milliput over the birdshot, attach the hull, and rubberband the hull to a level 1x 2 long enough to hold the entire hull. Let it sit for a few days and you should have a good flat waterline hull. It is rather awkward with some waterlines, Skywave's Bogue and Independence, for example, but it does work. I've tried this method on the Tamiya 1:350 Fletcher and allowing for some poor cutting on my part, I got a pretty good waterline. Milliput really dries rock hard and solid. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: crofoot@bfm.org (Crofoot, Christopher) Subject: Re: 1/700 Torpedo nets Someone a few issues back wanted to know how to portray 1/700 torpedo nets on the side of WWI era vessels. I use flat unwaxed dental floss. Twist it tightly while keeping it stretched out and then caot it with CA to stiffen it. You can trim, paint and attach it to your ship's side. It is a vast improvment over styrene rod because the texture resembles the rolled netting. Chris Crofoot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: cwjerden Subject: A rookies USS Honolulu Hey Guys. First timer here. I picked up a Naval Works 1/700 Honolulu at our clubs kit auction last year. I have never tried a resin kit before so I'll dive in now. The kit is for the 1943 period. I would really like to convert her back to December 1941. My questions are, Where can I find a good veiw of her arangement in this time frame? Second where can I find some 1/700 scale quad 1.1 AA guns? This kit has alot of room to build her in any time period, if I can just find good equipment to fill her tubs. As a last Q, is there any plans or info on the arangements of the old USS Phoenix, as she was the day she was sunk by the Brits as the General Belgrano? This conversion is intriguing, but most likely beyond my skills. Still I would like to see about it as it would look good with my 1/700 Type 42 HMS Sheffield. Thanks in advance for any help ya'll can give. C.W. Jerden Ft. Worth Tx. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Michael Connelley Subject: 1/400 HMS Hood Hello: IS the Lindberg 1/400 Hood kit the same/better/worse than the same scale Heller kit? Just checking for a friend since he may buy one. Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Jakloek@aol.com Subject: 1942 USS Honolulu Corsair Armada's USS Phoenix kit can also be made as the Honolulu in 1942. I do not know if they are still available, but Mike Czibovic is a regular on SMML, and he would know. I have built the kit, and it is very nice. Tom's Modelworks makes a nice brass photoetch for it, which I also recommend. Unlike generic cruiser frets, it has specific parts for the Brooklyns, such as the searchlight tower. Between the kit and the photoetch, it built up to a very attactive model. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Two Askolds Just let me add some words to explain this "misfortune" of having now two Askold kits: I started researching and building the master more than two years ago. As Caroline already pointed out for her side, I also was impressed by the appearance of this ship with her sleek hull and her five funnels. Further there was good documentation available. Nevertheless my work came to a stop. There were some points, especially arround the bridge, I couldn't clear with all my plans and photos. It took some time until I could get me copies of the yard plans and thus could solve these problems. When my model finally was ready, I just learned that WEM also was making an Askold. Although I contacted them and informed them of my model, it was too late for both of us to change things. It really was a coincidence that we now have two models of the same ship. But those who know this ship will surely agree that Askold is worth of it. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: HMS Invincible kit I finally got the Invincible kit of Revell in my local hobby shop and tried to buil her just out of the box during this weekend. Alarmed by Caroline's posting in Vol.397, I measured out several plans and photos and found that the funnels are not so faulty at all. Of course they are too low. But adding some 1 mm of plastic sheet between funnel and funnelcap as well as some filling and sanding arround the after edge will help this. The ventilation openings on the port side of the funnels are not correct. There should be only one group of four slots where the group of three is. The other openings should be closed. Also the ski-jump seems to be shaped not quite correctly at its front. On the whole the model needs some filling and sanding as fitting of parts is not always the best. While the model is representing Invincible in her configuration before the refit of 1986-1989, the original photos on the Revell box show the alterations during this refit. (I hope WEM will not forget to add these alternation parts to their upgrade set.) Revell did its own decals, and they must be better than those of Dragon, as I found them mainly correct. After all it is a nice kit but could use some working up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: BILL HENSLER Subject: An Apology to Scale Shipyards/Lee Upshaw. An Apology to Lee Upshaw, owner/model maker of Scale Shipyard is warranted because I made an attempt at humor. Lee thought my words were unkind. Scale Shipyard is a good firm. Lee Upshaw cares about his products. I have always received what I ordered from Scale Shipyard. As his adds state, it takes up to 6 weeks for delivery. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Navismagazine.com - JANUARY 1999 In the January 1999 issue of Navismagazine.com http://navismagazine.com The Battle of the River Plate B-1B walk-around Russian Nieustrashimyj missile frigate walk-around Bell 212 walk-around The Falkland Islands War (PART IV) Building a 1/48 Kawanishi N1K1 "Kyofu"-"Rex" (Tamiya) French Foch and Italian Garibaldi carriers in NATO exercise Building a 1/48 Messerschmitt Bf-110 G-4 (Monogram) 1/700 diorama: HMS Abdiel in Grand Harbour, Malta Building a 1/72 Falklands war Sea Harrier (Hasegawa) Building a 1/35 20mm. Phalanx CIWS (Flagship Models) Building a 1/72 IL-2m3 Sturmovik (Toko/Eduard) Classic kit: Nichimo's 1/500 Graf Spee and Frog's 1/500 Exeter and of course our COLUMNS: Modeler Profile Model Showcase On the market - product reviews Naval reconnnaissance News from the kit industry Task Forces New Books Photo-history (aircraft: VC84 on CVE 93 at Lingayen Gulf) Photo-history (ships: HMS Exeter visits the Panama squadron) Virtual places (aviation and naval computer gaming) Letters Bulletin Board -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Atlantic Models announcement Peter Hall of Atlantic Models (also WEM's photoetched brass designer/part-time master builder etc..) is shortly releasing a photoetched brass detail set for the ex-Frog Revell/Chematic 1/130 Scale Shell Welder... this fine set will be available exclusively through White Ensign Models... final price not confirmed.. however, it is quite a large fret measuring 8 x 5 inches. Relief etching throughout.. from doors to portholes to hatches to anchors.. and very carefully designed relief etched stanchions and rails. It will probably retail at around 12.00 (that's about $19.00 US). Please let us know if you would like one. Cheers! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: UPDATED WEM WEB PAGES Hi Guys... Yawn, it's 3.40 in the morning, but I've updated quite a bit of stuff on the webpages as follows: NEWS at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/news.htm ***FULL OWN PRODUCT LISTINGS AT*** http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/main.htm 1/700 RESIN/ETCH KIT UPDATES/SCHEDULING AT http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/kits700.htm DOCKYARD MATEYS RANGE AT http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/dock/dock.htm PROFESSIONAL 700 http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/professional/wempro.htm INCLUDES REVELL/DRAGON INVINCIBLE UPGRADE OFFERINGS AIRSTRIKE 700 1/700 Resin aircraft sets http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/700air/air700.htm 1/700 HMS WARSPITE PAGES.. NEW PICS OF PRODUCTION SMALL PARTS http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/warspite/warspite.htm Yep, I think that'll do for now!! Feedback/comments always appreciated!! Cheers, Caroline Carter WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update Recent updates to Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) include the following new items: First look at Iron Shipwright's 1:350 USS Tennessee 1944 First look at Iron Shipwright's 1:192 river gunboat USS Panay A look at five Len Jordan 1:1200 kits: Lancastria Media Reina del Mar T-2 Tanker Urbino Two featured models added to Model Gallery: 1/600 CSS Alabama Confederate commerce raider by Jim Gordon Phil Kirchmier's 1/350 DE USS Thomas Viking Models 1:350 USS Texas in-the-box review by Jon Warneke Pic-of-the-week: Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) Updated News and New Release Announcements Added 3 1250 Model Reviews: Neptun CV USS Saratoga Neptun CV IJN Unryu Neptun SBC 4 scout bomber Review of Cottage Industry Models 1/96 USS Keokuk Added Chris Drage's 1/700 HMS Abdiel at Malta diorama to the Model Gallery Added Noordzee Johan Van Oldenbarnevelt (cruise ship version) to 1250 scale gallery Updated Pacific Front Recent Arrivals page Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com Meals Not Included -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: USS Honolulu Cadman, I know the JSP kit is the 1943 version because I built the master when I was with Naval Works. I left them shortly after and the masters were sold to JSP. Their version has the later 40mm tubs higher on the forward superstructure, and the single boat crane. I have a kit of the 1942 version as alternate parts for my Corsair Armada Productions USS Phoenix (I might as well get in a plug for my company as others do ;)). This version has the wide bridge wings and both boat cranes. It has no photo etch but a sheet for this ship is available from Tom's Modelworks. My kits are available from Brookhurst Hobbies, Pacific Front Hobbies, and Rocky Mountain Shipyard here in the Sates; and WEM, NNT, and WSW overseas. BTW, the JSP kit has the superstructure molded as part of the hull. I designed it (and cast it in my kit) separately so that the cross-ship passageways could be easily opened up. The JSP kit uses copies of the Skywave 5" guns- mine has originals (but still has 20mm copies). My 5" guns are also available separately as an accessory. Concerning JSP in general, I think they have gone back to their primary role as architectural caster and have dropped out of ship kits. I have talked to the former general manager and have gathered that much of the staff that was involved with ship production decided to go off and start their own ship kit business. I believe they will be concentrating on more modern subjects. As a manufacturer, I don't think I should say more than that. I think they will announce their plans when they are ready. Also as a manufacturer, I don't think it ethical of me to complain about other people's products, although I've had good cause on several occasions, partly because I know how MUCH effort goes into each release. We all do our best. In the case of JSP, however, I will say that I was told that the owner was more concerned with bottom line than customer satisfaction. If you've bought one of his kits (as I have) you will know what I mean. As an aside, I found that a pot of water from a drip coffee maker is a good source for hot water when dealing with warped parts. The couple of times I've had to use this method has worked well for me using a Pyrex baking dish as a vat...and it's quick. Have fun, Mike Czibovic Corsair Armada Productions La Mirada, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume