Subject SMML13/01/99VOL424 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:04:18 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Philippine used book dealers 2: Re: Jim Shirley Productions 3: Re: Revell 1/700 HMS Invincible 4: ASKOLD and waterline ship bases 5: Swap meets/model contests in NE area? 6: Re: Heller Hood versus Lindberg Hood 7: Re: signal flag meanings 8: Re: signal flags 9: Re: Floquil Marine paints via the mail 10: Re: Oregon deck planks 11: Fun with Organics 12: Re: Floquil Marine Paints via Mail Order 13: Re: Cat's Whiskers 14: Re: Diver Dan 15: Re: Heller Chebec instrutions 16: Re: An appology 17: Re: Cat whisker whip antennae 18: Re: Askold 19: Re: Signal Flags for Rusty. 20: Re: signal flags 21: Re: floquil marine colors 22: Re: Signal Flags 23: Re: Tssessarevich 24: USN DD MARKINGS 25: Re: Chebec Instructions 26: Revell-Monogram to Re-issue USS Olympia but Need Original Box Art 27: Re: Signal Flags 28: Re: Signal Flags 29: Re: Anastasia 30: Which Invincible? 31: Sailing ship plans from the Smithsonian 32) Re: Floquil Marine Paints 33) Flat Red for hull bottoms / Revell PT 109 34) Re: Revell Olympia box art quest 35) Warship 1998-1999 36) Re: Signal flags 37) Re: Signal Flags -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Clearence at The Naval Base 2: Announcement of Large-Scale Fletcher-Class Replica 3: Re: Revell 1/700 HMS Invincible 4: For Norwegian Eyes only! 5: NEW Releases from WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: MGross1352@aol.com Subject: Philippine used book dealers Could you please run the following request in an issue of SMML this week? I am looking for the name/address of any bookshop in the Philippines that deals in used/out of print books, specifically covering the World War Two era. I prefer one that is on line or at least has E-mail capabilities. I am aware of a number of internet sites but none seem to deal in used/out of print items. Thanks, Mark Grossman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Re: Jim Shirley Productions I got a Gearing 1/350 fram so time ago and IM not the best molder my far I'M always asking you guys for help and I really do appreciate it. But this kit was the worst Ive seen. I was on board one the 869 for a few years in the late 60's and the kit isnt at all like the real thing. Plus half of the parts were broken. Guys I will never get a Jim Shirley kit again unless they improve a lot and then they better send me one for free..... Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: Revell 1/700 HMS Invincible >> I have a question about prewar (W.W.II) USN ship colors. The Battleships, cruisers didn't have hull numbers on them. Yet I've seen a picture with 2 cruisers that have on their turrets. Was this the standard for the whole fleet? << Hi Craig, No, the numbers on the turrets were probably air recognition for some sort of fleet exercise. There are a couple of pictures I've seen of the New Mexico with a big "40" on the No. 2 turret during her time with the Neutrality Patrol of 1941, and photos of Savannah or Philadelphia (can't remember which) with air recognition stripes on the forward turrets during fleet exercises in the late 30's and for duty off Spain during the Spanish Civil War. However, each of these examples were for special reasons, and I don't believe that numbers on the tops of turrets became a standard until the Korean War when there are numberous photos of Iowa class BB's and CA's with their hull numbers on the forward turrets. Jon Warneke Iron Shipwrights -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CHATZIIOANNOU ROMILOS Subject: ASKOLD and waterline ship bases Hi, I am a newcomer in this type of communication. I do like building 1/700 waterline models of ships upto WWII. Anyway I want to comment on the WEM Askold 1/700 which I received lately. I think it's marvellous with little bits and piece which make her look so 3D. Generally I am very fond of ships from that era because they are originals in every sense and very 3D if you know what I mean. I 've seen somebody complaining about destroying the hull of a model while building it, by applying to much pressure on it. Especially the ships pre-WWI with the torpedo nets and hull guns, are very fragile to touch. So what I do is that: First thing i do after i receive the model is after cleanup of then bottom, I attach it on a rectagular sterene sheet, size and thickness enough to handle the model without ever touch it. Then I can attach it to real base together with that sheet. Ofcourse that prevents from having a real looking sea, but for me it looks all right, because it really gives the impression that there is a part of ship underneath the "sea". Usually the "sea" (sterene sheet) I paint it with metalic Humbrol Blue (the one for model cars). This is a simple technique which satisfies me (I am not superdetailer), and saves me (and the model) from a lot of trouble. I am sure there are better ways available, but I end up to it, after 9 years of building waterline models, money and time permitting. Cheers Romylos Chatziioannou -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Swap meets/model contests in NE area? Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any up-coming swap meets or model shows in the New England area? I live in Boston, so I can get to almost anything in the neighboring states. Thanks. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Re: Heller Hood versus Lindberg Hood I have to stick up for the Lindberg kit. Yes, it is not really a model - just a large motorized toy boat with the Hood's general profile. But what a profile it is, especially "steaming" across the neighborhood pool or lake, and especially when you couldn't get any other motorized kits to work. I did sketch out plans to convert it to a USS Lexington (CV-2) which had grossly similar battlecruiser lines, and to start accurizing it, starting with adding some hull blisters, but never got around to it. Yes, it's a lousy kit - but I have very fond memories of it. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: signal flag meanings Rusty et al, Yes the international code of signals provides for two and three flag code signals. For instance, BZ equals Well Done. In the Merchant Marine we had to memorize a bunch of two flag code signals. There is a USN H.O. pub (forgot the number) that lists them all. Also two or more flags can be combined into Naval signals requiring a code book to interpret. As in a convoy or task group/force, when communicating prearranged signals among ships. This saves a lot of time, as you can imagine spelling out a long signal with individual flags and pennants. As I recall, there is even a two flag code signal for "Crew has Mutinied", although I naver saw it; wonder who would hoist the signal if it were true and all officers had walked the plank? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: signal flags >> I found the national and international signal flags and their definitions on the US Navy web site: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/communications/flags/flags.html It only mentions the flag's individual meaning. I would like more than one answer to this so to verify the answer. << Rusty, I don't know what you have found out but in addition to each flag representing a letter, number, or repeat code, each also has a meaning in the International Signal Flage Code. Be aware though that at the order "Dress Ship", almost all and anything goes up. A good write-up on the use of signal flags can be found in "FLAGS, Through the Ages and Across the World", Whitney Smith, McGraw-Hill Book Co. ISBN 0-07-059093-1. There is also an excellent write-up on the use of signal flags in "A Guide to Codes and Signals", Gordon Peterson and Marshall McClintock, Whitman Publishing Co. a little book published in 1942, I don't see an ISBN Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Frank Bayley Subject: Re: Floquil Marine paints via the mail Subject: Floquil Marine paints via the mail >> Anyone know where I can still buy Floquil Marine paints mail order? << You may be beat now with Floquil, but may wish to consider the new line of "Marine Model Finish" paints being brought out by Badger: water based; 60 - 70-odd dead flat colours ready for airbrushing right out of the bottle; all the WWII military ship colors as well as modern ship colors and classic (sailing ship) colors; additional colors used in camouflage painting of war ships and some general standard colors used for trim on tugs, etc. I'm using Humbrol at the moment and have not tried these; only heard about them. However, I'll probably make the change on my next model. Cheers, FCB Frank Bayley Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Re: Oregon deck planks Well, I have started my Glencoe Oregon and have the hull together and made some changes in it as Tom's PE set suggest, raised the water line, replaced mooring points, etc., now I want to change the main decks since I'm going to rebuild the superstructure, does anyone have an idea of what size scribed decking to use and also if they know a supplier. I have looked at most of the photo's available on the Internet to try to determine the width of the decking on the real thing but without reference's I'm unable to do so. One article that was sent to me stated that they used 1/32 (.030) scribed width material, I have some .050 width scribed material that looks good but I would like to get as close to the real thing as possible. I will be rebuilding all the decks. This is my first try at this much of a rebuild and can use all the help you fellows can give me on this ship. Thanks for everything. Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Fun with Organics Paul professes innocence concerning the use of organic materials in his modeling. I don't think so. I've found that most modelers enter a phase in which their thoughts turn to the family pet or loved ones and how they can be used to better their modeling. Usually, these thoughts form early on in one's modeling career when experimentation is at its height. Cat whiskers is pretty old stuff, I'm surprised people still turn to them because stretched sprue is better in almost every way. You rarely find a straight one and whiskers are really only suitable for depiction of bent AFV antennae in 1/72. Their best feature is a beautiful taper from end to end. Chopped into shorter lengths, the feline whisker is incredibly tough and resilint. Some uses could include 1/350 scale cannon barrels, small a/c landing gear struts, or a telephone pole in 1/700. Aside from practical uses, they are very satisfying to collect and display in a pincushion on the modeling table. I once collected long, black strands of hair from my wife's Polynesian friend for use in rigging, but we all know that human hair sags from humidity and is therefore unreliable. Still, it is an exotic material, and sensuous to work with. A handy substance right at our own fingertips is forehead oil, which, when rubbed on a model with a fingertip produces a nice subdued sheen. If your skin is dry, forehead oil may not be available, but I caution you not to substitute inner ear oil, which is a heavier grade product with altered compositon. It once even occured to me that flea carcasses could be converted into portly sailors in 1/700. That thought was EARLY in my musings, before photoetched figures. Note: no living things were harmed in the making of this email Jim Gordon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Floquil Marine Paints via Mail Order Model Expo bought the entire remaining stock from Floquil, and indeed sells mail order. Mark Mosko, the owner, regularly contributes to the seaways-shipmodeling list. I don't know if Model Expo has a web page, but they likely advertise in some of the ship model magazines. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Cat's Whiskers Cat's whiskers (yes, they DO shed them) are radically tapered, good only for whip aerials, not rigging. John (who once gave it a thought after finding one shed) Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Diver Dan I vaguely remember it (having moved away from kids' shows by that time), but thought it was a local broadcast (from San Francisco?) rather than a network offering. John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Re: Heller Chebec instrutions >> Please add me to your mailing list. Can you give me the address for Heller (or Humbrol)? I need to get a set of instructions for their sailing ship model "Chebec" which I believe is 1:100 scale model (I lost the original ones) << Their address (taken from a quality control card) is: Heller Flash Service BP 5 61160 TRUN - FRANCE Tel: +33 677264 Fax: +33 677271 I think that these numbers should include 02 (or 03) after 33 since France converted all numbers to 8 digits two years ago. Please keep track of the time it takes them to forward the instructions to you, and let us at SMML know. It should be very fast (they claim 48 hours, even for out of production kits). Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: An appology I received several e-mails stating I came on too harsh in my answer to the "disliking of judges". The problem with sending e-mail is the receiver (SMML) can't really judge the emotional state of the sender. I meant no malice at all to the fellow I was answering. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise. I'm sure this fellow and I would get along fine and would have much in common. Maybe he could show me how he does that surgical thread rigging. I'm going to give that a try. So, just in case this message was interpreted incorrectly, I offer my apologies to any and all that were offended. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Cat whisker whip antennae >> Geez, Rusty, does this guy really use cat's whiskers??! Now, I know that cats shed hair, but I don't think that the same is true of whiskers. So, does he cut them off with scissors, or yank them out with pliers? << I kid you not! He says the whiskers have a scale tapering to them and they will not break if brushed by a shirt sleeve or baseball cap brim. He only builds two or three models a year so the whisker supply is plentiful. I don't know how he gets them loose from the cat and I don't think I want to know. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: Askold Actually, there's a third Askold kit. A Polish firm makes a paper model of it. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "arthur" Subject: Re: Signal Flags for Rusty. There is a definite order for reading signal flags and for reading groups or strings. You would need the relevant code book to decypher groups. Each flag on its own represents a letter of the alphabet or a numeral. Each group of flags represents an order or action (2, 3 or 4) Each string is read in a prescribed order to have meaning, from memory it was starboard outer to inner, then port outer to inner, mainmast to fore to mizzen.. For a very good example, follow how Nelson's "Every man---" signal on the Victory was read. Arthur NZBG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Re: signal flags Hi Gang! Like Rusty, I too would dearly like to know what the combination of signal flags means on R.N. WWII ships. Often vessels are depicted with a combination of number pennants. Was there a code? When I model a ship I tend to signal it out with the ship's pendent number. That's probably wrong ......or is it? Anyone know a good reference? Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo.... (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: floquil marine colors According to the folks at Model Expo Inc., they have bought up the Floquil Marine Colors which they are offering as a closeout special this month on their website http://www.modelexpoinc.com Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Re: Signal Flags >> I have an interesting question regarding the use of signal flags. I have done research for Archer Transfers so they can produce dry transfer signal flags. In my research I found all the signal flags in use by all countries of the world. Each flag has a clear and definite meaning. << Each flag represents a letter or a number, pennants have special meanings which change from navy to navy. There is an international code which is recognized by all navies and in addition each navy has its own secret code. >> Do the flags have a different meaning when combined in different ways? I need to know so Archer can add a few examples to their instruction sheet.<< Flags are basically letters and numbers. Their combination means a lot, either in the international code or in their own secret code. An example could be these four flags: - ALFA (meaning a message to all ships in the task force) - SIERRA (meaning change speed to) - 1 - 5 (meaning 15 knots) This is something very simple, but with flags you can communicate just about anything. Of course the secret code at war may change even every day. If you're modeling a WWII ship, you can put any flag combination and nobody can prove you wrong :-) Paolo Pizzi http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Tssessarevich Hi Falk; What s mail order source for Kombrig? I really want Tssessarevich, how much was it? Thanks Chuck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Malcolm Waite Subject: USN DD MARKINGS Is there any evidence that the US Navy tried to standardize destroyer camouflage schemes / measures on sister ships serving within the same Destroyer Squadrons, during World War II? Greetings for 1999 Malcolm Liverpool UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Brent & Tina Theobald Subject: Re: Chebec Instructions I have a set of instructions for this kit. Give me your snail mail address and I will mail you a copy. Brent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Revell-Monogram to Re-issue USS Olympia but Need Original Box Art I have it on good authority that Revell-Monogram is about to re-release the USS Olympia. However they are in need of the original box art, which they wish to reproduce for this re-issue. Anyone who can help them should contact: Edward F. Sexton (at Revell Monogram) Phone: 1-847-581-2540 Rob Mackie Warship Editor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: Signal Flags Rusty In addition to code and text messages, one of the other purposes of the signal flags was the ships "call sign" or identification to the other elements of the fleet. A quick look-see on the net showed that the KIDD's call sign was NOVEMBER KILO YANKEE FOX. and the NORTH CAROLINA's was NOVEMBER INDIA BRAVO KILO. If anyone else knows of any others ... chime in. I'm sure that our brothers across the pond can come up with the code for Nelson's hoist at Tralfalgar ... "England expects ... ". Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Alberto Rada Subject: Re: Signal Flags Hi Well, Rusty, if you are getting Woody Vondracek from Archer Transfers to do a signal flags transfer is great, his are about the best transfers I have seen. What scales will they be 1/350 and 1/700? Regards Alberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Anastasia Yeah, I saw the movie on video too, and when they showed the ship, I was like, bugged eyed. I had to run the video back over several times, because it sure looked to me like whoever the animator was, he had obviously copied EMDEN. And, I can't imagine why. Surely they have access to all sorts of material on small passenger ships. I'd be interested to know how they selected her. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Martin.Lamb@dtf.vic.gov.au Subject: Which Invincible ? With a limited budget I was wondering as to which HMS Invincible to purchase, Revell or Dragon. Does anyone have any advice ? PS - What does CA stand for ? It's been mentioned on a few postings. Thanks Martin Lamb. Note from Shane: AFAIK, they are both the same, just reboxed. Plus the Revell one should be cheaper than the Dragon one(at least here in Australia). CA is basically superglue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Doug Marrel" Subject: Sailing ship plans from the Smithsonian I have seen several references to the Smithsonian selling scale plans for ships, both sailing and otherwise. I am interested in finding out more about what service the Smithsonian offers, and am very interested to see if a catalog or price list exists. I am interested in improving wood/plastic kit models or maybe even trying my hand at a little scratchbuilding, if my skill set ever gets that high. I have been unable to find a direct contact and I would like to correspond with someone who has a general idea about what a ships plan might consist of instead of sending a undirected letter to the Smithsonian asking for info. If anyone has a department or contact mailing address regarding ships plans at the Smithsonian, please email me or post to the list. Thank you Doug Marrel a0002604@airmail.net In answer to my own post and in order to perform a public service (as is the usual punishment for doing something less than intelligent) the Nautical Research Guild has a direct contact for the Smithsonian as well as many other suppliers at http://www.naut-res-guild.org/sour-pln.html. The Guild is a fine organization and I am proud to say I am a new member. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: Floquil Marine Paints You may want to try Pacific Front Hobbies to locate the Floquil paints, but good luck! The local hobby shop informed me that the line has been discontinued, and once stocks are depleted, that's all. I've ordered a couple of bottles of each color, and already the 20-B Weather Deck Blue isout of stock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Paul S. Baxter" Subject: Flat Red for hull bottoms / Revell PT 109 I am new to ship modelling and have not been able to identify a good flat red enamel (preferred) or acrylic for hull bottoms? Any recommendations? Also, I have selected the Revell PT 109 in 1/72 scale as my first project. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions about this kit? Paul Baxter Crossett, Arkansas, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Revell Olympia box art quest Dear Shane, Loren Perry of Gold Medal Models has asked me to post this for him as he is not an active SMML member. I volunteered to help spread the word. Loren Perry writes: Ed Sexton of Revell called me today (Tuesday, Jan. 12) and told me that they are ready to re-issue the classic Revell kit of the USS Olympia. But they no longer have the original 1950's issue box art printing plates. However, if they can borrow or purchase a mint or near-mint condition box top, they can then scan it and make a new master. Once this is done, the Olympia will be put into production immediately. The box art showed a painting of the ship underway at sea as seen from the starboard side with the vessel sailing slightly away from the viewer. Anyone having such a box top and willing to loan or sell it to Revell can either work through me or I can put them into direct contact with Edward F. Sexton (Product Development Manager) at Revell. My address: Gold Medal Models, Route 2, Box 3104, Lopez, Washington 98261 USA The address for Revell is: Revell-Monogram, Inc., 8601 Waukegan Road, Morton Grove, IL 60053-2295. Thanks, Loren Perry Gold Medal Models If anyone can help it will expedite the re-release of this kit. It is the best kit made to date of this historic ship and I would certainly like to see it back in production again. Note: Revell is only looking for the original box type with the painting - not the more recent re-issues with the photos of the built up model on the box. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Warship 1998-1999 With all the recent discussion concerning the nonavailability of the Anatomy of the Ship Fuso, does anyone know the estimated time of arrival of the next edition of Warship? The 1998-1999 edition was supposed to be released in December, according to my Naval Institute Press calender, but so far there has been no sign of it. I suppose the recent change in ownership of Conway has affected production scedules for the USNIP. Anyone have any info about this? Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: Signal flags I don't know much about the use of signal flags, but I do know there was more to it than just the flags themselves. I remember reading in the book Aircraft Carrier by J. Bryant III (sp?) about the use of other flags as punctuation (e.g. 1st repeater, etc.) so I have an idea that there must have been codes set up for use with the flags. I suppose it would make it easier if the codes turned single flags into standard phrases, sort of like shorthand. I'm also curious about the use of shapes on the flag hoists. I've seen illustrations (of Japanese ships, especially) where balls, cones, and other shapes were used alone and in conjunction with the flags. I'll be watching this thread to learn more. Mike Czibovic La Mirada, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Signal Flags Rusty, This one should get you a flood of responses. As an officer of the deck (OOD) on a Pacific Fleet cruiser in 1980-82, I had to be conversant on this subject, but I probably don't remember enough secrets to have to kill you after I tell you stuff. You're right, most flag signals are groups, not individual flags. The reference comes from a classified naval code book and an unclassified one to use with civilian ships and authorities. The reference materials we use are the Allied Tactical Publication number something [ATP-nn](a NATO classified publication) and the International Code of Signals, named H.O. Pub 102 in the USA, published by the US Hydrographic Office. I haven't found my copy since my not-too-recent move. The H.O. 102 should be available from the Government Printing Office. The flags used underway include two broad groups - identification and command/response/informational signals The easiest are the identification flags. Every ship (US Aricraft Carrier to Norwegian Fishing vessel) has a four letter International Radio Call Sign - IRCS. Just like radio & TV stations, where everything in eastern US starts with "W" and western US starts with "K", Mexican stations start with "X" and Canadian start with "C". US ships have a distinctive IRCS that starts with "N" (USS JOUETT was NZTV), British ships start with "G", French with "F", and I think Russian/Soviet ships start with "R". The IRCS may be flown entering/departing harbor or on a photo-opportunity. I don't know when else it would be flown. It would show as four rectangular flags, evenly spaced, from a single yardarm (ie, usually not both sides). On a US ship, you would see "N" (blue/white checkerboard) at the top. IRCSs are not classified, but I can't think of an unclassified source to find a list of them. The command/response/informational are in code. Most are two letters followed by a number or two, with amplifying numbers following a "dash". The rectangular letter and number flags are used, with a short piece of rope called a tackline to make an extra break (space) in the flaghoist where the "dash" is required. Consider a *hypothetical* page "AA" in the signal book that means "Take Station". "Take Station in line astern of the Guide" might be "AA1", "AA2" might be for "Take Station in Column Open Order" instead of Line Astern, and AA3 might mean "Take Station in Line Abreast". To use the amplifying info, "AA1-2" might mean "Take station in line astern of the Guide at twice the normal spacing between ships". This would use the rectangular flags for A, A, 1, and 2, and a tackline between the 1 and the 2. If something other than the normal sequence of ships is desired, the signal would designate sequence with pennant number flags for ID. Therefore, to tell the group to line up with triple spacing with CG29 leading, FFG10 next, followed by DD966, the signal might look like "AA1-3", "desig" (pennant), "C" (flag), "9" (pennant), "desig", "F" flag, "0" pennant, "desig", "D" flag, "6" pennant. This would be spoken as "alpha alpha one tack three desig charlie niner desig foxtrot zero desig delta six. These 12 flags would not all fit on one halyard, so they would have to be read in a sequence - I think it was outboard to inboard. As soon as the signal was understood by all and executed by the Officer in Tactical Command (OTC), as the first ship in the new line, CG29 would fly flag "Golf", indicating the "Guide" of the new formation. Of course, that was for a *hypothetical* signal. Another hypothetical signal might break to "On arriving in port, anchor at anchorage N(orth) 32 and send a boat with two medical personnel to the Senior Officer Present Afloat". This might be something like AD3 AN desig N32 DE37-1-2-13. Hypothetically. On a final note, in Portsmouth, UK, I bought a mug from "Pusser's Rum" (as opposed to Budweiser) with AD28 on the side. This just happened to break to "Splice the Mainbrace".(note from Shane: "oh no", now we'll see that on all Brit ships :-) ) I don't mind giving away a signal that doesn't work on our "dry" ships. The civilian codes from the HO 102 would be much simpler and if a Navy ship used a signal from that book, it would be preceded by pennant "code". This is just a small taste of a huge subject. Models can use single informational flags from the: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/communications/flags/flags.html site as well as two letters and a number or two for hypothetical signals. There are a few more flags - "desig", "division", "squadron" for example. I believe some are listed in either the Bluejacket's Manual or the Watch Officer's Guide, both available from USNI, as well as a bazillion used bookstores. As neat as it would be to show correct signals from the ATP[something], the info is classified. Rats. Good luck, Rick (Shane - sorry for the length of this thing) No worries, we'll just blame Rusty for asking about it :-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Clearence at The Naval Base To all SMMLer's, 1) 2 1/350 Akizuki's BL Wat Navy 89.00 includes shipping 2) 6 1/350 Soviet Sierra Subs BLW 30.00 includes shipping Contact Naval Base 212-759-1846 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Alex F. Wojcicki" Subject: Announcement of Large-Scale Fletcher-Class Replica We wanted to drop a line to the SMML to thank you for great support to the modelling community! Keep up the good work! The USS PRINGLE (DD-477) HOMEPORT ON THE INTERNET is our internet focus for the "USS Pringle Historic Reconstruction Project", which has two main goals: * Prepare a new ship's history from the crew's perspective; and, * Construct a large scale, manned, operating replica (1:10) of the vessel All the details are on line at the URL below. We invite the SMML members to come for a visit. Summary: 1:10 scale works out to 37.5 foot length, 4 foot beam, and 1 foot draft; crew of 2; I/C range 200 miles @ 10 kts. We are seeking interested and experienced individuals to become part of an ad hoc "advisory committee" to assist in this project. There's no pay involved (hey, we're all volunteers :-), but there's a nice certificate available! Looking forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Alex F. Wojcicki Bob Keefer (SMML Member) Co-directors USS Pringle (DD-477) Historic Reconstruction Project http://www.foto.infi.net/~wojo/pringle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: Re: Revell 1/700 HMS Invincible >> I have a question about the Revell 1/700 Invincible. Is it waterline or full hull? << Full hull and it's very hard to make it waterline. The December issue of Navismagazine.com has an in-box review as usual with lots of pictures of each and every part in the kit and next month there will be a full-build article. >> I have a question about prewar (W.W.II) USN ship colors. The Battleships, cruisers didn't have hull numbers on them. Yet I've seen a picture with 2 cruisers that have on their turrets. Was this the standard for the whole fleet? << You've probably seen a picture of a US cruiser or battleship during the Korean war. Paolo Pizzi http://navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ingebrethsen, Kyrre" Subject: For Norwegian Eyes only! Hi everybody on SMML, sorry for being so discriminating in my subjectline. In order not to exclude all SMML'ers totally, I'm writing this in English, hoping you will forgive me, since this will only be of interest to the Norwegian speaking population of the world. To the point: - I have started a mailing list called PLASTE-POST, not unlike this fine publication called SMML. Actually quite similar. It's in Norwegian, allthough English messages may also be submitted. All topics will be accepted, as long as it has something to do with model kits in any form, whether it's aircraft, tanks, boats or cars, resin or plastic, CA or .111. To subscribe all you have to do is to indicate that in a mail to Kyrre.Ingebrethsen@caa.no, and you'll be in before you know it. (Actually, anybody may subscribe, although it may just be to learn Norwegian...:-) Thanx for your time, Kyrre Plaste-post er en uavhengig norsk e-post liste. For modellbyggere - av modellbyggere. Nye artikler, svar på artikler og meldinger sendes til: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW Releases from WEM Hi SMMLlie folk, We just had delivery today of WEM AS 7136 1/700 Trader (x3) WEM AS 7137 1/700 Tracers (x3) WEM AS 7168 1/700 Kingfishers (x3) WEM AS 7141 1/700 AV8B/GR5 Harriers (x5) all at 2.95 pounds per bag (around $4.80) Post Free and WEM FD 402 1/400 Tracers (x2) at 6.77 pounds per bag... Check out NAVIS for Joe Reyna's WEM FD 401 1/400 Tracker review for a look at the quality These patterns are all new! Also, 1/450 Fixed Wing Aircraft Parts (etched brass detail sets) to compliment the new 1/400 and 1/500 Scale aircraft at 10.17 pounds per set. The Revell Invincible has hit the shops over here, and we have seen a lot of brass go out in the past few days, although, typically, we are still awaiting our kit delivery from Revell.... we have a few of you chaps on back order and will get the kits/etched brass sets out to you as soon as they arrive. Cheers! Caroline Carter, White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume