Subject SMML01/01/99VOL425 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:03:24 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Deck making 2: Re: Floquil Paints 3: Re: Diver Dan redux: 4: Cyrillic decals or dry transfers 5: Re: Revell Olympia 6: Re: PT 109 7: RN deck colors 8: Re: Signal Flag Scales 9: Re: Hull Bottom Red 10: Re: Which Invincible? 11: History of british use of signalling flags 12: Re: some call signs 13: Re: Tssessarevich 14: Re: Cats Whisker (almost) 15: Re: Oregon deck planks 16: Re: Revell Olympia - Update! 17: Re: Diver Dan 18: A born again ship model judge 19: Re: Floquil Marine Paints via Mail Order 20: Re: Heller contact No 21: Re: Numbers on US warship turrets 22: CORRECTION - Tssessarevich - CORRECTION 23: Sightseeing near Detroit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Now Available: AIM USS Roper APD 20 2: Smithsonian Ship Plans 3: Naval & Military Press -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Deck making I had a web site bookmark but I deleted it. It was a company that would laser cut material for deck for the scratch building ship kits. Does anyone know of this company are anyone that does this type of work. And would any one of you guys and girls like to do it for some extra cash in you pocket. I can't seem to cut the material right..... Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Re: Floquil Paints You can get Floquil paints at Model Expo 1-800-222-3876 http://www.dxshop.com/_shop/home.mhtml?TSTAMP=916235271&SHOP=ModelExpoInc&CART=916235271-15621.db -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Gordon Hogg Subject: Re: Diver Dan redux: Nearly thirty years ago, a good friend used to torment me with his rendition of the Diver Dan theme song, which he had internalized while watching the show in Wilmington, Delaware in the 50s and 60s. I am shocked by the human brain's (my brain, anyway) to recall such marginal stuff, even second-handedly: There's adventure and danger, under the sea That's where you'll find Diver Dan. The things that he sees are incredibly stranger Than ever you'll see on the land. He goes among creatures Of frightening features... [can't remember next line(s)] --Repeat first two lines-- (the melody is a sort of lugubrious, slower inversion of the Popeye song) Catchy, huh? Gordon Hogg Lexington, Kentucky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Gordon Hogg Subject: Cyrillic decals or dry transfers Before I go about making my own such detailing, I wonder if anyone has seen transferable Cyrillic (i.e., Russian) lettering small enough to be used for 1:700 ships. Thanks, Gordon Hogg Lexington, Kentucky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: Revell Olympia Hello All, First let me say: Hot Damn & Hallelujah! The re-release of the Olympia is great news, especially since I recently got the urge to find one thanks to GMM's great PE set for her (It will be reviewed in the next IMM update to be out on 1/19). Bill Bayer, an expert and collector of classic models, has a scan of the original box art of his website: http://members.aol.com/billbayer/kcchome.htm You can email him at BillBayer@aol.com I will email him the info to get this going. He is a nice guy and I am sure he would be more than happy to help. Cheers, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: PT 109 FLOQUIL Oxide Red or Boxcar Red will work just fine as a bottom color. The Revell PT 109 kit is a pretty accurate kit, especially for one that is about 40 years old. As kitted, the model depicts a standard PT 103 series 80' ELCO as designed. The deck planking is heavy-handed, but that's about the only major negative factor. If you are concerned with accuracy, do not apply the shaded numbers to the bow - not done in "real life". If you want to depict the boat at the time of its loss, paint it a dark green overall, add a depth charge on either side forward, and include a 37mm anti-tank gun on the bow. For placement, see if you can find a copy of John Lambert and my Allied Coastal Forces of WWII, volume 2 at your local library and look in the section on 80' ELCOs. I'd give you the page number, but a local modeler has borrowed my only copy. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: RN deck colors Hey everyone! I've sort of asked this question before but, not having gotten an answer, I thought I'd try again. I have lots of information about US battleships from WWII, but very little on Royal Navy ships. I have 1/350 models of (what else) HMS King George V and Iron Shipwright's HMS Nelson (a really fine kit from some really fine people). My question is about painting, and deck painting to be precise. I've seen the postings on KGV turret colors but was wondering about other decks. Did RN battleships keep their teak decks unpainted? I've seen an overhead shot of Rodney with camoflaged upper surfaces as well as the sides; did Nelson do this (and if so, does anyone have a pattern)? I've already visited Warship and gotten the RN paint chips from them (in lieu of the upcoming offering from the Paint Guys) but don't know which colors to use on the vertical surfaces. I plan to do KGV in it's Pacific Fleet scheme and Nelson in her Admiralty disruptive scheme. Thanks in advance for any help you can give, and keep up the great work! By the way, if I might, I'd like to plug our upcoming IPMS Region X convention here in Colorado Springs in June. If anyone would like more info, feel free to write me. Michael Satin Hi Michael, Try Plastic Ship Modeller No 1997/1. This has part 3 of the Naval camouflage series by Alan Raven, this issue deals with British camoufage in WW2. I can highly recommend this. You should be able to get a back copy from "the usual suspects" ie WEM, Pacific Front etc :-), or by emailling the Editor Dan Jones at dhjonespsm@juno.com Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Signal Flag Scales >> Well, Rusty, if you are getting Woody Vondracek from Archer Transfers to do a signal flags transfer is great, his are about the best transfers I have seen. What scales will they be 1/350 and 1/700? << Right now he will start with 1/350. If he can get the flags to print microscopic he will try to get 1/700 scale, but I doubt he can pull that off. I'm certain he will move to the larger R/C scales as well but I can't say for certain. He will send me a complimentary set and I'll report back as soon as I get them. We also discussed British, American, German, Japanese and French national flags as well. It's up to him as to where he wants to go with this. For those of you who don't know how dry transfer flags work it goes like this. The flag looks much like the decal flags we all have used in the past. Using a small piece of aluminum foil, the flag is rubbed to the foil. The remaining side of the flag is folded over and rubbed down on the other side. Since dry transfers are flexible, the flag can then be shaped into a realistic "fluttering" effect. I've seen some of Woody's stuff at the Nationals and it's truly amazing and extremely high quality. Super clear, clean lines. Even with very small details. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:38:01 EST Subject: Re: Hull Bottom Red >> I am new to ship modeling and have not been able to identify a good flat red enamel (preferred) or acrylic for hull bottoms? Any recommendations? << I use a mixture of Testors Insignia Red and Testors Rust. It's easy to figure out the mixture ratio. Start with 50/50 and add red or rust to your taste. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: BILL HENSLER Subject: Re: Which Invincible ? Martin, CA = Cruiser Attack. It was the designation for a heavy cruiser. I know it was used from after WWI to about the 1970's when the all gun cruisers were retired. Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Foeth" Subject: History of british use of signalling flags In "The rules of the game", by Andrew Gordon, the historical background of the use of signalling flags is treated, with incidents like the Victoria/Camperdown disaster and Barham's bad steering during Jutland. I am reading it now, and it is extensive, although a bit too much for my short attention span as 150 pages of signalling is a bit long. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Dale G Elhardt Subject: Re: some call signs Here are a few call signs for models I have built. I don't recall where I got the info. USS Enterprise NTAW USS New Jersey NJBB USS Missouri NBMO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: Tssessarevich >> What s mail order source for Kombrig? I really want Tssessarevich, how much was it? << You may ask Pacific Front Hobbies. They had some of the early Kombrig kits, but I haven't seen them advertising the newer ones. I got mine from NNT Modell + Buch Versand Fax: 0049-7769-919018 Here in Germany. Sorry, no e-mail address existing. But yoou can find their complete address in an ad in the latest Vol. of PSM. Good luck! Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Cats Whisker (almost) Hi all A question. Doesn't the cat wriggle around a lot after you've have stuck its whisker to the model and damage it? Sorry, couldn't resist it. I will now go and beat myself up in the corner. Good luck. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK 7 degrees and not raining. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Oregon deck planks This isn't exactly on point but might be helpful. I just went out into my shop and measured the deck plank I have from BB63 USS MISSOURI: 4" wide by 1 3/4" thick - nominal. Actual measurements are 1/8" smaller. This could allow for caulking or be the result of shrinkage a decade and a half after being stripped from the ship. I can't give you the length because the one I have is incomplete, but it would vary somewhat according to location. The anchors are spaced at 26". Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: Revell Olympia - Update! Hi Again, I just got an email back from Bill Bayer. He is going to give the representative from Revell a call. Things are looking good! Cheers, Felix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Diver Dan Dear John: Yes, Diver Dan was a local production. It was made in Philadelphia and distributed thru the UHF channels. A web site called Planet X magazine just did an article about it. Describing how it was made. The magazine is available thru the website at a price of $6.50 I don't work for them but it's a fond old memory to me of my child hood. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: A born again ship model judge Many years ago when I was a ship model judge I spoke to young contestent asking general question about what subjects he liked and what materials and methods he used. This young person was overwhelmingly enamoured of the use of plastic. I gently mentioned that there were materials that could be used other than plastic, in fact there was a complete universe outside of plastic! The boy looked at me in disbelief. I tried again and this time I mentioned that the worlds best warship model was held in the Imperial War Museum; a model of the cruiser Dorsetshire undergoing refit in drydock. A scene so good, that the model was almost alive, and with not a single piece of piece of plastic in sight. That evening I decided to give up my judgeship, no more bribes from contestents, no more free Taliskers in the bar, no more would the contestents suck up to me,currying favour, and no more would I stride into the competion hall like a god. I would spread the word ------- Plastic Bad ---Silk Good. For a day or two I waivered in my resolve, and then I paid a visit to the Imperial War Museum, where I viewed once more The models built by Norman Ough. There was the cruiser Penelope in her late 1930s configeration after refit, and then onto the submarine Osaris. This model didn't just sit there, it had activity, with a torpedo shown being loaded through the casing. And then there was the WW1 cruiser Vindictive shown as she appeared during the famous raid. In the middle of the gallery was the crown jewel --- the Dorsetshire -- looking superb. Even the dockyard cranes were fully detailed. My resolve was firm and I was imbuded with the "Word Of Ough". I've never looked back nor have I judged since. On cats whiskers, the problem is in obtaing a cat. The method that works best for me is as follows:- Set the family Spaniel to work in the garden to flush out next doors cat. The cat will then take off at a high rate of knots along the fence line, closely followed by the dog. As the cat passes by you, throw a net over the creature. Carry the cat indoors (make sure that you are wearing a pair of thick leather work gloves), and then with a sharp pair of scissors you ---------------, and then you ------------------. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Floquil Marine Paints via Mail Order >> Model Expo bought the entire remaining stock from Floquil, and indeed sells mail order. Mark Mosko, the owner, regularly contributes to the seaways-shipmodeling list. I don't know if Model Expo has a web page, but >they likely advertise in some of the ship model magazines. << Yes, Model Expo does have a web page. You can find it at: http://www.dxshop.com/_shop/home.mhtml?SHOP=ModelExpoInc Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: DZermati@aol.com Subject: Re: Heller contact No >> Their address (taken from a quality control card) is: Heller Flash Service BP 5 61160 TRUN - FRANCE Tel: +33 677264 Fax: +33 677271 I think that these numbers should include 02 (or 03) after 33 since France converted all numbers to 8 >digits two years ago. << The phone number is wrong since France converted to a 10 digits two years ago. Phone number : 02 33 67 72 64 (ref. MRB - 422 - Janvier 1999- page 49) So the Fax number must be : 02 33 67 72 71 If calling from abroad (outside France) : 00 33233677271 or 00 33233677264 David Zermati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Numbers on US warship turrets I have a photo of USS NORTHAMPTON, with the number "26" prominently displayed on the top of turret 2. The photo is black and white so the colors of the numbers are not discernable, however, they appear to be darker than white would be (possibly yellow?) and they have a black shading typical of numbers used on DD's. The photo, and another, was taken in San Francisco Bay, and based upon the look of the ship, the other ships shown (several ASTORIA Class ships are visible) and the aircraft aboard, which appear to be O3U's (they are definitely not SOC's) the photos likely date to around 1935. By 1936 most cruiser planes were SOC's, and according to Larkins book on BATTLESHIP AND CRUISER AIRCRAFT OF THE U.S. NAVY, 1935 was the last year that NORTHAMPTON carried O3U's. According to Larkins, NORTHAMPTON was Flag of CRUDIV 4, comprising also SALT LAKE CITY, PENSACOLA, and CHESTER. The second photo shows ships in line, with NORTHAMPTON, 2 SLC Class behind followed by other cruisers including the ASTORIA'S. According to Larkins book, none of this class cruiser were with the Pacific Fleet until 1935, and other sources support this. So 1935 is a pretty certain date. I don't believe that either photo has ever been available publicly. They are not Navy photos. In Friedman's book on US BB's there's a photo of NEVADA dated April 1937, with large white numbers on #2 turret. I am sure that a review of US Navy photos of that period will turn up other such markings on battleships and cruisers. Obviously the numbers are intended for air identification, but whether this was for a specific exercise or a general practice, I do not know. However, I do not believe that individual ships were allowed the luxury of any ID markings that differed from standard practice. It is likely that if NORTHAMPTON had the numbers, then so did other Pacific Fleet cruisers. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: CORRECTION - Tssessarevich - CORRECTION Sorry, I gave the wrong Fax number in my previous posting. The correct Fax number of NNT Modell + Buch Versand is: 0049-7763-919018 Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Foeth" Subject: Sightseeing near Detroit. I'll be leaving soon for some graduation work in Ann Arbor, MI, so are there any worthwhile museums, etc in the nieghbourhood? Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Now Available: AIM USS Roper APD 20 Hi Everyone, Our next release is now available for ordering. This kit is of the USS Roper, APD20, a High Speed Destroyer Transport based off of the Wilkes class DD. The model features a resin cast one piece full hull, resin parts, photoetch brass fret, and everything you'll need to build this kit. Two design patterns for the camoflauge patterns, Ms 22, and Ms. 31/1T, are included. The price for this kit is $74.95, plus $3.00 shipping and handling. Foreign orders add 15% for shipping. Checks and money orders are accepted. Please send orders to: Accurate Image Models 406 Union Av., Ste. 630 Knoxville, TN 37902 For more infomation, you can call toll free 1-877-WARSHIP between the hours of 6pm and 9pm Eastern time. Jon Warneke Accurate Image Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: RVanda1839@aol.com Subject: Smithsonian Ship Plans This info is 2 years old but it should get you some response. Ship Plans, Transportation Collections NMAH 5010 / MRC 628 Smithsonian Institution Washington, D.C. 20560 They have 3 catalogs (at that time $10). 1. Ship Plan List. American merchant ships and small craft, canoes to clipper ships. Many drawn by Howard Chapelle. 2. Smithsonian Collection of Warship Plans. American sailing and early steam warships from mid-18th century to 1900. 3. Maritime Administration Collection of Ship Plans (1939-1970). Plans from MarAd and DOT, Liberty and Victory ships, tankers and containers of the 1950's and 60's; and plans on the S.S. United States. A phone number which might still work is 202-357-2184. Please let us know how it turns out whoever tries to contact them. Rich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Foeth" Subject: Naval & Military Press Visit: http://www.naval-military-press.co.uk Many interesting publications in stock, of which a lot of Arms & Armour publications. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume