Subject: SMML19/01/99VOL430 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:01:21 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Select Hobby Supply 2: Re: Painting helopads 3: Re: USS Spruance Helo Deck 4: Re: USS Spruance Helo Deck 5: Re: Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) 6: Re: Floating Drydock 7: Re: RAN ship color(s), 1960s to 1980s 8: Re: I'M LOOKING 9: Re: Atlanta Class Armor Belt 10: Re: signal flags 11: Re: Postal charges 12: Re: 1/700 Atlantas 13: Re: Mk 31 directors on USS San Francisco 14: HMS Exeter's class 15: RN Colour chips/Signal flags 16: Re: card models 17: Re: 1.1 inch AA guns 18: 1/192 fittings 19: Re: more 1.1" guns 20: Re: New Viking Skipjack 21: Re: bulge on Atlanta class 22: Re: The Floating Drydock... another Voice! 23: HMS Iron Duke 24: Phoenix Camouflage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Plastic Sumner Gearing kits 2: $$$ for your construction articles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Select Hobby Supply Hi, This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure the phone number for Select Hobby Supply is (860) 633-9064. Excellent service and excellent prices (i.e., 25% off). Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting helopads >> My question for the group is how do I go about laying out and painting the Helo landing target grid??? Free hand is not an option even with the raised lines! My hands are just not that steady. << Bradford, Before you make your order out to GMM, be sure to order their 1/350 ship markings decals. It includes decals to make any helopad markings plus lots of white striping to match. They make them in 1/700 as well. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ralph E. Batykefer, Jr." Subject: Re: USS Spruance Helo Deck >> My question for the group is how do I go about laying out and painting the Helo landing target grid??? Free hand is not an option even with the raised lines! My hands are just not that steady. << Brad, I did not like the raised plastic on the helo deck and also did not feel comfortable painting them. What I did was make a rubbing of the deck and then scrapped the raised details off with a seam scraper (really a surgeon's bone scraper). Then I made decals from a white decal sheet. The open circle was cut using a new #11 blade mounted to a modified compass. The dot in the middle was made with a hole cutter. The lines were easy... The end result looks much crisper than painting the markings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ralph E. Batykefer, Jr." Subject: Re: USS Spruance Helo Deck Brad, You can also buy the helo deck markings from Gold Medal. A photo is found at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/onetrack/gmsdnavs.htm which shows exactly what you need and more. The cost is only $8 but you can also try the hand made decals I mentioned before. Ralph Batykefer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) >> The Briscoe also had a Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) launcher on her fantail. Is she a test platform or is the RAM being deployed to the fleet now? << Hi Mike, Yes, I have seen it on a number of units now, LSD and DD. Someone must like it! (or it's built in a large enough number of congressional districts ) Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Martime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: Re: Floating Drydock I realise that this has been covered, but let me give you a quick illustration of how good these guys are. I needed some photographs of USS Iowa, and wanted to see what they had. Obviously I didn't need all their catalogues, but just the few that I wanted fell under the Credit Card minimum. I don't have another way of paying as I am in the UK. Drydock sent me the catalogues ON TRUST so I could order some photo's and add the balance on (which I did). Despite the fact it was Christmas, they turned my order around really quickly, and I got the stuff last week. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Gordon Hogg Subject: Re: RAN ship color(s), 1960s to 1980s Without resorting to the use of color chips or FS code numbers, can someone(s) give me an idea of the grey shade in use by the Royal Australian Navy relative to USN Haze Gray? Two projects I have in mind involve combined operations, one in the mid to late 1960s (it could just be the MELBOURNE greeting the hapless FRANK E. EVANS). The early 1980s scenario would be a USN/RAN unrep "snapshot". Any and all suggestions gratefully received. Thanks, group! Gordon Hogg - Lexington, Kentucky, USA Hi Gordon, According to a 4 part article written by Lindsay Charman in the APMA magazine, he states he uses the following to get the RAN grey/green: white 10 parts, Dk green 2 parts & black one part. This is admittedly for an article on the RAN FFG's(1980/90s), I not sure on how long the RAN has had the grey/green colours, they had it at least in 1980 when I started working at HMA Kuttabul(Garden Is Dockyard). In relation to a paint chip(Provided by the crew of HMAS Canberra during refit & put in the magazine after it had been printed) he states that it's gloss in real life, but weathers to a matt finish in areas that receive heavy weathering & it's suggested that a matt finish would be more realistic(if you go for scale effect). HTH: Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Vincent McCullough Subject: Re: I'M LOOKING The following is from the Nautical Research Guilds "SOURCES FOR MODEL KIT DEALERS and DISTRIBUTORS (Hobby Shops)" page http://www.naut-res-guild.org/sour-dis.html Select Hobby Supplies P.O. Box 723 Glastonbury, CT 06033 203-633-9064 Vince McCullough NRG Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "ROBERT C MORGAN" Subject: Re: Atlanta Class Armor Belt >> This morning I opened for the first time a Skywave Atlanta class kit that has been in the closet for a while. As those of you familiar with the kit know, it has an unusual two piece hull and the lower piece, when fitted, sticks out quite a bit in a way that might simulate an armor belt or torpedo bulges. << The Atlantas had a small, rectangular external armor belt located amidships along the waterline, but not under the bow knuckle. My photos show that it ran from approximately the bridge area and terminated near the waist turrets. Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: signal flags I was emailing back and forth with Rusty so I don't think I put this out on her but I can't think of a better explanation for the use of signal flags in the US Navy than the Bluejackets' Maunal. I am looking at a 1943 edition and it tells all, what each flag is, how it is used alone or in combinations, talks about US Navy and international codes, even specifies what flag go up for "dress ship". You will also notice that the pages for the signal section are blacked so you can find then real fast !!! Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Postal charges >> I only wish that Canada Post would stop charging $5 and GST for mail order processing!!!! BTW, the plans were awesome! << Darren, I don't know if GST means your import tax, but I have run a shop for years and have many friends and customers in Canada. I always put a sticker on packages going to Canada that say "HOBBY ITEMS, TARIFF EXEMPT PER 9502-20-10-00". supposedly that works!! Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: 1/700 Atlantas Tom: You're generally right in your observations. There was a belt of light armor on the ATLANTAs, but it is pretty hard to see in photos. I wrote a review of the Skywave ATLANTA kit when they first came out several years ago. The armor belt in the kit would do the YAMATO proud, scale-wise. It also extends too far aft--should end around the waist 5" mounts. Check a good plan source--Friedman's US Cruiser book, or better yet, the upcoming ATLANTA book from Glen Boren and WR Press--and be prepared to do some sanding to thin the belt down and shorten it up. It can be made into an award-winning model--I took a first at the IPMS Nationals with mine--with not too much effort. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Re: Mk 31 directors on USS San Francisco Robert, Thanks for the info. I've got Steve's book, I was kind of hoping for a little bit more detail. I haven't seen the Profile Morski book; does anyone know where I can get a copy? Guess now that I look at my research material I could use a bit more info on the Mk 33 as well. But hey, thanks for the leads, much appreciated. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com Subject: HMS Exeter's class Hi, I have a doubt, this is What was HMS Exeter's class? Regards, Roberto. Hi Roberto, Depends on what HMS Exeter you're talking about: The WWII cruiser is a one off class(Exeter), she was designed as a sister to HMS York, but was altered enough to warrant a separate class designation. The current HMS Exeter is a type 42 DD of the Sheffield class. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: RN Colour chips/Signal flags Hello all, >> I think we can do both without delaying the RN, since we have the IJN colors ready to paint right now - John Snyder << Great news! A big THANK YOU from all we R.N. modellers John. A big thank you too from all the respondents to the signal flags request. I have found the response really useful. Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo.... (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: card models In regard to Paul Rathjen's post on the subject, I've obtained a couple of models from Paper Models International, both in 1:400 and printed in Poland with an English instructions insert included. I've bought both the Italian battleship Conte di Cavour and the Dutch light cruiser De Ruyter--both unbuilt as yet but they look good unbuilt in the booklets they arrived in. Paper Models Int'ls catalog does include alot of esoteric subjects too, including World War I era ships like Seydlitz, Lion, and Scharnhorst (Von Spee's flagship), several interesting predreadnoughts, and a range of liners from the interwar years like the Bremen, the Nieuw Amsterdam, and so on... They sent me a catalog which I requested when I visited their website at: http:\\www.expresspages.com/p/papermodels . Jeff Roberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: 1.1 inch AA guns I believe I have a photo or two of one of these 'Chicago Pianos' that's among the items that are rusting away outside the Washington Navy Yard museum. I'll be happy to e-mail a scan to anyone who's interested. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ellison@connection.com Subject: 1/192 fittings Can anyone tell me where i might find 40mm quad guns in 1/192. If it makes any diference they are for a WW2 American battleship Thank you Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: Re: more 1.1" guns Dear Caroline, Floating Drydock has a simple 3-view of the 1.1" available for sale. While not extensively detailed, it should be more than sufficient for 1/700 scale, along with a few photos. I used it to make a set in 1/700 scale in resin for Skywave's Atlanta-that kit only comes with 40mm guns, and as far as I can determine, Atlanta and Juneau went down with 28mm AA guns carried only-thats 1.1" for you non metric types, and many European publications, such as Conway's list the 1.1 as such. Harry Dente, Research in Scale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: New Viking Skipjack Just curious if anyone has seen the Viking 1:350 USS Skipjack. I have the Blue Water Navy kit in 1:350, which is quite good. Curious as to comparison of the two as to accuracy, value, price. Thanks, Tom Dougherty Check out the submarine model group the SubCommittee at: http://www.wolfsong.com/SubCommittee/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: Re: bulge on Atlanta class This does represent an armored belt. If you look closely at photos, such as the series of Juneau in her first, small pattern Ms. 12, or San Diego in a larger pattern Ms. 12, it is visable, but not as pronounced as on the kit, and the upper edge is much less sharp, probably why it doesn't show up well in photos. This actually represents only part of the belt. Narrower sections extended fore and aft under the waterline to protect the magazines. The belt varied from 1.1" to 3.75" in thickness. The armored deck was only 1.25". These ships originally were concieved as anti destroyer, or destroyer support ships, screening the outer edge of the fleet, not as AA ships, and the disposition of the armor reflects this. Note that they were the only cruisers we equipped with sonar and torpedo tubes during WW2. You can bring the belt on the kit closer to scale by sanding it lightly before painting the hull. Harry Dente, Research in Scale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Alex F. Wojcicki" Subject: Re: The Floating Drydock... another Voice! Hi, all! Since folks seem to want say nice things about TFD, I thought I would throw my two cents in here too... Prior to Nov 98, we had never dealt with an online modeler's support company. We can't say anything bad about the rest, but we can say only GOOD things about The Floating Drydock!! The range of books, materials, and supplies is superb, service was both SUPER (online answers, like the next day) and FAST (10 days over a major holiday!). Fifteen items delivered, one item was backordered, and they ate the extra postage... As we are building a 1:10 scale replica of a Fletcher-class (that's 1:10, not 1/10...) we have found no equal, maybe except for Jon Warneke and Jeff Herne... :-) Comments about the catalog are right on track... it IS a book! Best regards to the SMML, Alex Wojcicki Bob Keefer (SMML Member) USS Pringle (DD-477) Historic Reconstruction Project http://www.foto.infi.net/~wojo/pringle PS: If you feel the same way we do about the FDD, visit our website, check the links page, and download the FDD banner for your site too... if you don't have a site yet, please visit anyway, and sign our guest log... WELCOME ABOARD! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Lee Francis Wilhelmsen" Subject: HMS Iron Duke According to my sources, the HMS Iron Duke from WWI was not scrapped until after WWII. Can someone therefore tell me what the Iron Duke was doing during WWII? Also, I remember reading on Warship that WEM had an Iron Duke model out in 1/700 scale. (http://warship.simplenet.com/ironduke.htm) Yet I could not see any reference to this model on their Web page (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/kits700.htm) Can someone update me on the situation? Is it not available as of yet? Best regards Lee Francis Wilhelmsen Hi Lee, HMS Iron Duke was served as a base ship ar Scapa Flow & Flagship of the Admiral commanding Orkney & Shetlands. She was hit by an air attack in Oct 39 & developed a 20-25 degree list. This was fixed & she was grounded & served as a base ship. Also I think WEM has discontinued the 1/700 kit due to a change in mould casters. Caroline!! Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Phoenix Camouflage The camouflage scheme that Phoenix shows on that photo at navsource is Ms.32/5D. It was applied during the refit of Jul/Aug. 1943. A good broadside view of the port side, taken Aug.30,1943, can be seen in the book of Terzibaschitsch, Kreuzer der US Navy (I only got the German edition, but I think there also was an English edition titeled Cruisers of the US Navy). There are also two photos showing both sides of the pattern in US Naval Vessels 1943 of the re-issued O.N.I. 54 series. Colors were Haze Gray 5-H and Navy Blue 5-N. Because of this low-contrast combination and the faded out sprayed edges of the dark areas, the scheme could also have been of Ms.31a. But a camouflage design sheet for the AVP 10 class from 2/44 referres to this scheme (5-H as light color and sprayed dark patterns) as Ms.32. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Plastic Sumner Gearing kits >> Do you know if anyone makes any of the following in plastic? << Steve, Albatross makes a 1/700 WW2 Gearing/Sumner class ship. Not much detail, but pretty close to accurate. In definite need of a detail set. I'm not sure if it's still in production or not. Skywave/Pit Road makes a Sumner/Gearing as well but the bow is absolutely screwed up. It would be nearly impossible to fix, but the molding and detail is great. Save yourself a LOT of time and work and fix up the $10.00 Albatross kit. And, of course. Don't forget to add the Flagship Models WW2 Destroyer/Destroyer Escort set for the details. If you wish to modify it to a FRAM I used the Flagship Models Knox Class Frigate set for my Jim Shirley kit. Shamelessly plugging, Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Paolo Pizzi Subject: $$$ for your construction articles Thanks to our much increased subscription base, we're now able to pay for your ship construction article. Don't waste your work where it's not compensated, building a model and writing an article is an effort that deserve a reward. If you have an idea for an article, please write me at editor@navismagazine.com If it meets our quality standard, you'll be approved, published and paid in a very short time. We pay as much as any modeling magazine. Those that do pay, of course...and naturally, like any publication, we require exclusive. Paolo Pizzi Navismagazine.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume