Subject: SMML29/01/99VOL440 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:45:32 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Whitley's Battleships of WWII 2: Fujimi Ark Royal 3: RN Falkland paints 4: Re: Enterprise references and Jon Warneke 5: Re: "Laser Type" thingies 6: Re: HMS Ocean 7: Re: German catapult ships aircrew members 8: Re: all the colors in the universe 9: Re: Old Built Up 1/700 kits 10: Re: Military technology secrets 11: Brooklyn Class 12: Hobby Link Japan 13: New to resin model building 14: Re: FALKLAND STRIPES AND VARYAG 15: Re: Shangri-La 16: Re: IJN CV/CVL references 17: USS Plunkett DD-431 Camo. 18: Re: Minsk, etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS Ward and Olympia For Sale 2: 1/1200 Enterprise 3: Research in Scale announcement 4: Kit collection sale 5: WTB:German Coastal Forces of WWII / Jane`s 1898 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Whitley's Battleships of WWII Hi, Has anyone bought M. J. Whitley's Battleships of World War II: An International Encyclopedia? Is it more useful than Rene Greger's book on battleships of World War II, and does it really have anything new in the way of information or photographs? I liked Whitley's cruiser and destroyer books, though I wasn't very impressed with the line drawings. Thanks for your help. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Fujimi Ark Royal The Fujimi 1/700 Ark Royal is the post-war ship (no. IV). Their HMS Eagle is also the post-war carrier of the same era. I'm still trying to figure why they decided to make these kits when there is nothing else in the same era in the whole Waterline consortium. The WWII ships would have seemed more appropriate. (?) Yohan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "RLOCKIE" Subject: RN Falkland paints Sorry Falk, the black stripes appeared only on RN Type 42 destroyers and were used because the Argentinean navy had two of the same class (although with Exocet added, as I recall) and they were for identification purposes only. Apologies to everyone who was irritated by the hoax virus warning - it was sent in good faith from here anyway. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK Note from Shane, In respect to the haox virus message, while I was suspicious, I decided to err on the side of safety & post it anyway. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: Enterprise references and Jon Warneke >> ... yes I've found the E's web site, and even the crew association pages, missed the book, but I'll have another look, just as soon as I get a minute, it's a B**ch when work get in the way of model making! << Colin, Try http://www.cvan-cvn-65.org/stores.html. This gets you directly to the catalog page. The book is item #900 and it's about halfway down the page. Good Luck! Jon Warneke said: >> Another piece of info that we've come to find out is that history seems to be the biggest determination of the future success of a kit. ...if the ship had a key role in some battle as it screamed positive inspiration to the ships around it, then it probably will be built. << Man, I couldn't agree more! I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but to me the history of the subject is everything. Most of my models are WWII airplanes because that's what I know the most about. But as I read more I find my interests branching out, and modeling is a way for me to honor those who did the deeds. I find that I can't really get into building a model unless I'm reading about the history involved as well, and ships have real character, since there weren't thousands of the same one built. They bring a whole new dimension to my interest. Now if only I could get off this really expensive 1/350 mode! Anyway, thanks Jon, for what you've said and the models you've enabled us to build! Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Re: "Laser Type" thingies >> It will be interesting to see what capacity the 2 new RN CVs that will be built in the next 10? years to replace the Invincibles, will have in air complement and weaponry. << Do you mean the 2 vessels that they've signed up for (and cut the first steel for), or the proposed new CVs that they are still arguing about? If the former, these are supposed to be the replacements for the 2 assault vessels Fearless and Intrepid. But as you say, it will be very interesting to see what they equip them with! BTW - does anyone know where I can get resin landing craft for my 1/600 Airfix Fearless kit? I'm not impressed with the ones it comes with. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: HMS Ocean Hi Mike > Peter Hall? Ex-teacher? No, 22 years in the Royal Navy (FAA).... >> Interestingly, now she's left the Port, she is doing trials of the Chinook for future deployments. << Yes, we heard that as well... and I quote one of the marines "IF the engines start!!". Seems they are having problems with those diesels.. yes, you heard right.. >> I understand that there's also a vehicle ramp from this deck up to the flight-deck - no more waiting around for the lift! << Correct... it's pretty steep.. a few folks fell down it! >> As for a kit.. well, we now have drawings and we also have enough photos to fill in those missing details.. 1/700 Scale .. mebbe one day if we get enough interest! << >> As I told Dave, COUNT ME IN! << Well, that's one of you!! Cheers! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: German catapult ships aircrew members Reinhardt Hardegen, skipper of U-123 during Operation Drumbeat, gave the Luftwaffe's sudden jurisdiction over everything that flew as the main reason he switched from flying to submarines. He wanted nothing to do with Goering. Interestingly, he ended the war in the army! I wonder how he handles interservice rivalry. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: all the colors in the universe We had a very difficult challenge judging ships at an IPMS convention a few years ago. A gentleman built two splendid models of the BB Tennessee. The craftsmanship was superb, and the ships were later featured on the cover of FineScale Modeler. But he didn't win his category --- because he deliberately introduced errors, and then documented them proudly! Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at: http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: Old Built Up 1/700 kits I'd also be interested in old 1/700 build ups.. By all means, list them and entertain offers! Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood,California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Military technology secrets Hi Guys Well Mike I've calmed down. You say I pushed your buttons. Well, it's like, it's like this. I have no intention to tell you how to build a model. Now I was out of line tell you that a foreigner has to follow another countries rules. However I do believe e-mail can be read by the gov's. I found it interesting on the topic on ship lasers surprising but when you asked how far they advanced I thought why's a foreigner asking about SDI? I never been a marine but I think if some thing should said I say it and to your face. Now that's done I offer my hand of friendship and ask to have a beer. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com Subject: Brooklyn Class Is there a book about Brooklyn class light cruiser with plans, photos and characteristic of each one of them? Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: roberto.paredes@cl.unisys.com Subject: Hobby Link Japan Hobby Link Japan (http://iac.co.jp/~hlj/) is a very useful site to know kits from Japan, but when I try to contact them (hljsuprt@iac.co.jp), they are not response. Did Anybody buy kits to Hobby Link Japan? Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: WHB103@aol.com Subject: New to resin model building I recently purchased a 1/350 resin model with a mindset to try this medium, vice plastic. So I need all the help I can get! I am a total novice with glues needed for resin building and want to approach this with some knowledge of what types of glues to use and are available. Also do they have applicators for gluing very small parts? I would like assistance with books, procedures, tools, recommended glues and resin fillers, you or others can recommend for someone just getting started. I have limited experience with metal parts and have always made details from plastic. I take my time in building models and therefore storage of glues is important Thanks Bill Boland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Baker Subject: Re: FALKLAND STRIPES AND VARYAG The stripes on the stacks of RN ships during the Falklands War were confined to the Type 42 destroyers and were painted on only to differentiate these ships from the two ships of the same class in the Argentine Navy, airplane pilots being then, as in the past, and probably still, not too good at ship recognition. Authority for this is discussions with RN senior leadership when I was on the SECNAV Falklands War Study group in 1982. The black stripe, if anything, would have ENHANCED the IR signature of the ship rather than diminishing it (which is why USN ships no longer have black trim on the funnel tops and on the masts). With regard to the former Russian carriers in China business, MINSK was thoroughly stripped of anything useful while still in South Korea prior to being sold to the Chinese business group (NOVOROSSIYSK, also sold to South Korea, was eventually cut up in India). VARYAG remains at Nikolayev (or Mikolayiv, if you are a Ukrainian), as the contract to sell her to China has fallen through; in any case, the ship was also thoroughly stripped of anything useful as soon as the Russians let it be known that they could no longer afford to buy her for their navy. Even were the ship to survive the tow to China (a few years ago, she was reported in the Russian press to require constant pumping because the shaft seals had never been installed), she would not provide much guidance to the Chinese as to how to design and build a modern aircraft carrier, as she and her once-again active Russian Navy sister ADMIRAL FLOTA SOVETSKOGO SOYUZA KUZNETSOV (reimstated in the Northern Fleet early last November after over two years in overhaul) are really pretty miserable designs; KUZNETSOV (which, according to the Russian press has all of 12 carrier-qualified pilots) has never been seen to steam at over about a dozen knots, and her Su-27K fighters have never been seen to operate from her decks with underwing stores. That aside, her hangar deck is disproportionately small for the size of the ship, which devotes a considerable internal volume to a set of anti-ship missiles whose tactical utility is dubious--and much other weight and space is devoted to self-defense ordnance. The KUZNETSOV's main air-search radar set (NATO's SKY WATCH) was never installed, and VARYAG was reconfigured to use older radars. By the way, India has NOT signed on the dotted line to acquire the MINSK's half-sister ADMIRAL GORSHKOV; all that was signed was a letter of intent stating India's "interest" in acquiring the ship, which the Indian Navy does not want (due to its condition, poor layout, and uneconomical size, among other things) nor does the Indian Air Force (which sees its maritime strike role jeopardized if the navy acquires a useful carrier with modern aircraft). KIEV, a floating spare parts bin since around 1991, has been stricken and is en route India for scrapping. Anyway, if VARYAG is ever delivered to China, all they will learn is now NOT to design an aircraft carrier. A.D. Baker, III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Shangri-La >> The Hasegawa Hancock/Ticonderoga model is a good starting point for the Shangri-La, although I would do a fair amount of kitbashing, as indicated in Larry Gertner's excellent article on the kit in Detail & Scale's book on the USS Lexington (CV-16). << Terz.'s US CVs book indicates CV-38 had 44 40mm and 60 20mm in 1945 and that from 11/44 it had Air Group 85, consisting of VF-85 (F6F), VFB-99 (F4U), and VB-85 9SB2C). In Sept. 45 it had Air Group 2. Terz. also confirms that positioning of 40mms is standard late war for a long hull, i.e. 2 at bow, 3 stbd below island, 3 on island and 2 on stern. Radars were SK-2 and SC-2, and their locations were swapped 1/45 (offhand I'm not sure what the locations were, but that can be figured out). 4 deck edge masts. Be sure to chop off the front & back of the flight decks the required length, and you'll need to build the stern 40mm sponson, as well as modify the bow one's shields. I don't think we should put too much faith in Terzibaschitsch's CV, CVL and CVE books. There are too many errors. Regarding Shangri-La, according to Barrett Tillman's U.S. Navy Fighter Squadrons of WW II, Shangri-La had embarked CVG-85 Jan - Sept of 1945. Both VF-85 and VBF-85 were F4U squadrons, although there were probably a few F6Fs for night and photo work. The VF-99 Terz. mentions, Tillman states did not deploy in WW II. And I think VF-2 was stateside in September because it was disestablished in Nov 45. Shangri-La joined TF-58 in April of 45 so would have been one of the newer members of the force and would have remained on station after the Japanese surrender. Possibly Terz. got his VF-99 from J. Bryan III's Aircraft Carrier where he mentions flying a sortie from Yorktown in company with aircraft from Shangri-La, call sign Sharpshooter 99. For some interesting details of Essex class enhancements/upgrades, etc, Warship 5, 6 and 7 had a series by Larry Sowinski that was excellent. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Dboykap@aol.com Subject: Re: IJN CV/CVL references There are several excellent Japanese language reference books on IJN Carriers. Grand Prix Books, Japan # GP-03 "IJN Aircraft Carriers" with highly detailed pictoral references and line drawings. From the same illustrator who did the Tamiya "Random Detail" books, but in a far more comprehensive format. There's even a plate on camouflage but, not true to color. The perfect companion set is the series from Gakken Books, Japan. These contain some extensive photo histories and line drawings but the best part is an extensive series of high quality color photos of 1/100 and 1/200 scale models, probably constructed by the Japanese IJN Modelers Warship Preservation Association. It does not get better than this for an IJN fan. The ships are depicted in early to mid-war rigs and color schemes. Some color paintings and plates are also included. The color in the photos seem to run true. The detail shown by these models has to be seen to be believed, absolutely museum quality. Vol. # 13 covers the Shokakus, Vol. #14 covers most of the IJN carriers with the model photo section devoted to Akagi, Hiryu and a color plate for Kaga. The Polish language monogaphs from Monograph Morskie contain excellent 1/400 scale line drawings and ship's plan, along with a written/photo history. A color plate is included on the inside cover. #2 is Akagi, #3 is the Shokakus. I believe these are all available from Bill Gruner's Pacific Front Hobbies in the U.S. Dan Kaplan, NYC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: USS Plunkett DD-431 Camo. A friend read to me, from a photo copy of an offical USN document, that the Plunkett was to have had a "expiremental" camouflage pattern, consisting of the following colors: light gray, thayer blue, pale green, pink, and mauve(purple-gray). All of this, as unbelieveable as it may sound, was to have been done in early to mid 1942, on the east coast, possibly at the New York, or Philadelpha Naval Yards. Can anyone come up with any evidence of this, PHOTOS? Almost forgot, USS Plunkett DD-431 was of the Gleaves Class, a sub-class of the Benson's, with round funnels. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Minsk, etc. Gene wrote: >> My girlfriend spent the rest of the day concerned about the FBI or SPs picking me up and dragging me off in chains. I think she was really concerned about how she would get home and explain to her husband!! << Gene, Are you now, or have you ever been, a congressman? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: USS Ward and Olympia For Sale Hi SMML, I would like to sell the following: Gulfstream 1/350 USS Ward: US$69.00 plus shipping Iron Shipwright 1/350 USS Olympia: US$75.0 plus shipping Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: 1/1200 Enterprise We got a hold of a nice model of CVN-65 waterline in plastic nice detail. $11.00 each $5.00 shipping. shaya@erols.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: Research in Scale announcement 1/700 Soldati class destroyer Ascari is now in stock!-$35.00 + $5.00 shipping 1/700 Giussepe Garibaldi (WW2) in stock!-$65.00 + $5.00 shipping 1/700 Driade A/S Corvette (WW2) in stock! 2 in box, $36.00 + $5.00 shipping Research in Scale, 205 Maryland Ave, Paterson NJ, 07503 To those waiting for books from Italy: The publisher informs me 5 packages were sent Dec 2nd! I have him trying to trace them. My apologies for the delay, I will do everything possible to get your orders to you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Kit collection sale We just got in the following models in a kit collection. Please call or e-mail for prices & information. First come, first served! Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com Revell H312 SS United States, very early issue Revell H405 USCG Cutter Taney Revell H300 USS Missouri "Picture Fleet" Revell H313 USS North Carolina Revell H376 SS Oriana British Liner Revell H374 USS Coral Sea Otaki/Paramount 1/400 IJN Heavy Cruiser Mogami (as carrier/cruiser)...VERY RARE Scientific No. 166 USS Kearsarge Airfix 1/600 Russian Carrier Moskva Lindberg 769M USS Wasp (Essex Class) Lindberg 7406M Motorized LST, old issue Aurora 717 USS Bainbridge CG Aurora 716 "Wolfpack U-Boat" - Very early issue Aurora 727 US Navy/Boeing PGH-2 Tucumcari Hydrofoil - Very rare Frog 1/500 British Helo Cruiser HMS Tiger UPC/Frog 1/500 HMS Tiger Renwall 608 BB USS Washington Renwall 651 USS George Washington SSBN w/ full interior Nichimo 1/500 IJN BB Musashi, very early issue Nichimo 1/200 JMSDF DD Asagumo Heller 1/400 Cruiser Colbert, very early issue Heller 1/400 BB Jean Bart, " " " Heller 1/400 BB Richelieu, " " " Hasegawa 1/450 British BB Vanguard, very early issue Hasegaw 1/450 IJN BB Yamato, newer issue Jim Shirley Productions 1/700 resin Arleigh Burke Monogram 6856 USS Halsey (Leahy class CG) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: WTB:German Coastal Forces of WWII / Jane`s 1898 Hi; I`m still looking for the following books for wargaming and modelling; 1-Jane`s Fighting Ships 1898-Arco reprint 2-German Coastal Forces of WWII by M.J.Whitley Thanks Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume