Subject: SMML04/02/99VOL446 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 00:10:17 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Website(s) for Russian/Soviet warships in Czarist/WW1/WW2 era? 2: Re: Enterprise & Spruance Diorama 3: Re: QE2 4: Re: USS Enterprise with Spruance 5: Re: Gun tubs 6: Re: Graf Zeppelin 7: Re: superglue & HMS Rodney & Nelson 8: Re: Shinano decks 9: Re: Top Secret! 10: Re: Top Secret! 11: Re: Graf Zeppelin 12: Re: USS Enterprise with Spruance 13: Re: Modern USN stuff 14: Re: Ensign Books 15: Areas of Interest 16: USS North Carolina 17: Re: Top Secret -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New Flagship Models Web site 2: Pacific Front: New Kits In -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Roy Man Subject: Website(s) for Russian/Soviet warships in Czarist/WW1/WW2 era? Hi guys: Could anyone please tell me if you know some websites for Russian/Soviet warships, especially battleship, in Czarist/WW1/WW2 era? So far, there are two websites that contain some information (& photo) on Russian/Soviet navy: Warship of the World, and Vladimir Kopylov's Russian Navy photo. But the former does not have much information on Russian navy in Czarist period and WW2, and the latter whose server system denies my browsing and entry. Please tell me if there are other wonderful website(s)! Your information is much appreciated! Ps. Thanks James Corley who gave me information and suggestion to my inquiry over 1/400 Heller's Richelieu (& Prinz Eugen). Thank you! Roy Hong Kong -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: Enterprise & Spruance Diorama In response to the querry regarding what Spruance and fit to do a diorama with the CVN-65. All information is culled from the 13th Edition of "The Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet" By Norman Polmar, Copyrighted 1984. In "84 CVN-65 was assigned to the Pacific fleet. The photo's in the book show her right after the '82 refit, and the CIWS mounts per the Tamiya kit are correct for this period. The only Spruance that was operating in the Pacific from the list from DML is the Elliot DD-967, the other three were Atlantic ships. The book doesn't go into specifics about the Elliot, but as class in general they were outfitted with the ASROC, and then later fitted with the vertical launch system(VLS). In the book Polmar mentions that they were in the process of being refitted with VLS, so if you wanted to do a diorama circa 1985, you could probably get away with the Elliot in the VLS configuration. Enterprise didn't get transferred to the Atlantic until the late '80' or early '90's. I was in Norfolk in September 1990 and saw the Enterprise pierside at that time. I was in Alameda in about 88-89 and spoke with some sailors from the Big E, as it was pierside then, and they weren't happy about going to the East Coast. Something about East Coast Navy and West Coast Navy. Hope this is helpful. Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: QE2 The Otaki kit is 1/450 scale I believe. It is no longer produced under the Otaki name. However it has been re-released under a different name, of which now escapes me. If you were looking for 1/350 QE2, this is not the kit to buy. Mark Krumrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: USS Enterprise with Spruance >> I have been thinking about a project which will most likely take me a year to finish (at least), but hope will be able to finish for next years IPMS Norway Nationals: A diorama featuring the Tamiya CVN-65 with a Spruance class escort. Now question is; as I intend to build the CVN-65 as she was fitted out in the kit (early eighties) with the A-7s, would the Spruance DD963 then be escorting the Enterprise? Or any other ship of that class? << In 1982/3, Battle Group Alpha was Enterprise deployed with Hewitt(DD 966) and Harry W Hill(DD 986), as well as Jouett(CG 29), Hoel(DDG 13) and Hull(DD 945). If you can modify the decals to do Harry W Hill, (GMM probably makes what you need) she looked kind of neat at the time - all the canvas around the superstructure weatherdecks was a bright blue color, rather than the typical white or haze grey. Both HWH & Hewitt had the ASROC launcher; this was before VLS. Local ops in the Eastern Pacific might have seen Elliott or Ingersoll with Enterprise; they were West Coast ships then. But local ops rarely saw a deckload of a/c. And I think the VLS started showing up about the time Enterprise moved to the East oast and converted from A-7s to F/A-18s. I think you really need an ASROC launcher. To "customize" or accurize your Spruance, check on reference pictures for existence of CIWS (I think HWH didn't have them yet), the TACAN antenna on the after mast - is it a beehive or a pancake? How about an extra "christmas tree" antenna at the top of the forward mast - Ingersoll had this thing in the early '80s; HWH & Hewitt didn't. Also, the little platform halfway up the after side of the after mast - most 963's started out with this platform empty - check your pictures. And if you can find a good close-up of the subject, look hard at the various departmental Excellence markings on the bridgewings. GMM makes great decals for these. Good luck on your project. Rick Heinbaugh Seattle, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "RLOCKIE" Subject: Re: Gun tubs I discovered a few years ago that the ink cartridges for some Hewlett Packard ink jet type printers (e.g. the 660 and Officejet LX fax) come enclosed in two white vacformed plastic trays about 2" by 3". To add strength to the trays, they have a dozen or so circular indentations about 6mm across and 3mm deep, which can be cut off the tray and used for small scale gun tubs. The plastic is thin (5-10 thou) and the flat part meets the side at a fairly sharp right angle. I don't work for HP by the way...... Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Re: Graf Zeppelin An excellent reference for the unfinished German Carrier is Jurgen Israel's book "Graf Zeppelin, einziger deutscher Fluegzeugtraeger" Koehler Verlag, 1994. It has several pages of fold-out blueprints, lots of photos; more than enough data to accurize the Revell kit, which has problems. In any case, the GZ's catapult system is very well-illustrated. The carriages held the aircraft more or less horizontally, and not at the crazy angle that Revell depicts. After launch, the cataput carriages dropped into a well just forward of the flight deck. They slid aft to an elevator where they were hoised back to launch position. The catapult rails were parallel with the gentle upward incline of the deck. A photo of cat tests of a Bf109 taken at Travemeunde 1940 shows the aircraft's gear up. A carrier version of the Bf109 (designated T for "Traeger") was actually produced in limited number and used in Norway. It had a slightly increased wingspan, an arrestor hook and a folding wing. My one reference (The Great Book of WWII Airplanes ) did not indicate if the wings folded up or to the side, but indicated that the wingspan was reduced to about 4m. I have not yet read my copy of Israel's book, so I do not know if he comments on deck colors. However, I noted in one photo the forward flight deck color appears very dark and I speculate that it was painted dark or middle grey at some point. A photo showing a portion of the deck in 1943 looks as if the deck is natural wood. A view from the air shows aft parts of the deck light, and forward parts dark. But dont worry, one of the nice things about building a model of this vessel "as -completed " is that you can give yourself leeway. Those flat sides may look nice with a splinter camo scheme, what the heck? Cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: superglue & HMS Rodney & Nelson David The answer to your query is any brand of superglue. Lee When first built the only way to tell Rodney from Nelson was the upper yardarm on the mainmast. This was bigger on Rodney. Up until 1935 the modifications to both ships were virtually the same. After this date they gradually diverged. Full references can be found in Raven and Roberts books, 'British Battleships of World War Two' (The definitive work on British battleships) and Man o' War 3 'Battleships Rodney and Nelson'. Both are out of print but are well worth the effort of finding. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Shinano decks When Capt. Enright torpedoed the Shinano I don't believe that he had a chance to see the decks. Even had he approached on the surface in broad daylight it would be impossible for a submarine only a few feet off the water to see what was on the decks of carrier. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Max Loosli Subject: Re: Top Secret! >> That failure was no surprise to those of us who drove British Sports cars in our youth. The Lucas electrical systems in those cars failed often and regularly leaving us stranded. The SNAP was built by Lucas using an MGA engine reconfigured as a high volume freon compressor for the SNAP system. Once the Lucas electric failed the sub was in danger. (British Sports Car Joke: Q. Why do the British drink warm beer? A. They have Lucas refrigerators) << John, No suprise to anybody who has ever had anything to do with older British Motorbikes either ....... Joseph Lucas - Prince of Darkness! (Ancient British bikers joke (well sort of a joke but without the funny bit)) Getting back on topic (ish), to the paint boys, will your RN chips go back to WW1? If not, how much of a match would there be between WW2 and WW1 RN colours ? Regards, Max Loosli -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Re: Top Secret! An old friend of mine drove a Triumph for many years- we used to refer to Lucas Electric as "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" Sean D. Hert Webmeister, MBG Site: http://www.netwalk.com/~popev/bg/ IJN Mogami (Fitting Out) "Black holes are where God divided by zero." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Peter Mispelkamp" Subject: Re: Graf Zeppelin 1. To the best of my knowledge, the Graf was supposed to have a wooden deck - I read about an RAF raid on a German naval base which destroyed the first batch of seasoned wood intended for her. Best guess a wood colour like Humbrol's Natural Wood, or a medium to dark grey - the German KM tended to use a dark grey for the upper surfaces of most upper decks. Since she never entered service, you certainly have a free hand here. 2. Catapult angle - I really don't know. 3. Folding wings of the 109T- according to Willian Green, Warplanes of the Third Reich, the design called for the wing to be folded immediately outboard of the outer panels. This reduced the length of each wing to about 13ft.4in.. It was a complicated proceedure, because the flaps had to be detached before the wing could be folded. Note: most likely, only the 109T-0 prototypes had this feature, as the T-1's and T-2's that were completed had all of their navalized equipment removed. Ju 87C - Green says that only the outer panels could be folded. In both cases, it was a manual operation, but production Ju 87C's would have had electically folding wings and be able to carry either bombs or torpedos. Although I plan to build two of these kits, I have to say that Revell really botched the job on the a/c - especially the 109T. I am considering using WEM's 1/700 scale Ju 87's, but they would really put the 109's to shame. Maybe if we all asked the good folks at WEM very nicely they might do something for this kit. Another major weakness is the AAA - no 20mm quads to be seen. I really hoped that Heller would have released this ship in 1/400 - but I guess I will have to dream on. Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "ROBERT MORGAN" Subject: Re: USS Enterprise with Spruance The Shanghai/Dragon USS Ingersoll 1/350 kit is of an ASROC equipped Spruance. There were about six of these ships, and if memory serves, they have all been decommissioned by now. The Ingersoll is still available through mail order shops if you don't want to go through the hassle of modifying the VLS-equipped Spruance model. Hope this helps! Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: Modern USN stuff >From Jens, I know I could fake it, and I can do whatever I please, but it would be nice to know. Also, the Shanghai Dragon kit of the Spruance does not include an ASROC launcher - only the Vertical Launch System immediately forward of the superstructure. The decal sheet contains names and numbers for Elliott, Spruance, Peterson and Ingersoll - would the mentioned weapons system configuration be correct for any of these at the time? Failing that, where can I find a spare ASROC launcher? << If you can find it, DML also released the Spruance kit as the Ingersoll, DD990. This kit included ASROC and Tomahawk launchers >>From Les, I see that next issue of Fine Scale Modeler will have their annual new kit list. Has anyone heard any rumors about modern US Navy ships in 1/700, preferably in plastic? << In the latest update from Pacific Front Hobbies, Jan. '99, JAG Collective is listed as releasing several resin modern USN kits. Included in the list are CGN Long Beach, CGN Bainbridge, CGN Truxton, CVN Enterprise and CLG Providence. Availability is May-June '99, prices TBA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Ensign Books Hi SMML, There was never an Ensign No. 7 as such, but the seventh book in the series was a "Special' on the Hood. The series resumed (and ended, as far as I know) with No. 8 on the Repulse and Renown. The Man 'O War series followed with some new subjects (like the County Class cruisers) and some reprints of Ensign subjects (F_____, Town Class and Hood) with different photographs on the covers. Although projected at one time, there was never an Ensign on the R Class battleships. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Marc Flake Subject: Areas of Interest I thought it might be interesting to compile a listing of SMMLies areas of interest. We could list major categories like Predreadnought, WWI, WWII, Modern, Ocean liners. We could list all the areas in which we are interested (for instance, I'd put Predreadnought and WWII). Depending on how detailed we want to get (and how much time Shane has on his hands), we could get more detailed WWII Cruisers, WWI Battlecruisers, etc. This might be helpful to the manufacturers who are tring to figure out what to come out with next. What do y'all think? Marc Flake Mansfield, Texas (Where it got up to 75 degrees today) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: USS North Carolina Fellow SMMLers I'm thinking of building the 1/700 Aoshima kit of North Carolina as my next project. I was wondering if anyone can tell me what this kit is like ie. any major problems I should be aware of, in what year is she depicted ( I want to model her in 1944) etc. This will be my first 'serious' ship model, and as such am hoping to fully detail her. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Chris Evenden Clear blue skys, 27C. Bob, what's a snow plow? Now Chris, lets not make the northerners jealous :->>. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: Top Secret I read all these postings on the SNAP and its employment on HMS UNDUBITABLE during the Falklands war with great interest. Maybe my English is not good enough to understand everything correctly, but I think you have been fooled by a mystify-tale. I don't think that there was any British or American invention like the SNAP. In fact, a crew of German scientists, grouped arround the elderly professor Frank N. Stein, was working on a secret weapon project called "Giftzwerg"(poison-gnome) in late 1944. It was aimed at enabeling U-boats to blow off a gas which would cause nausea to the sailors of any escort ship arround, so they were knocked out of action. First tests were carried out at the end of 1944 and early in 1945, using a reversed-snorkel system to spray the gas from a submerged U-boat. The gas was very effective, but only at close ranges and low wind velocities. So it was considered impracticable for combat use. Nevertheless, the experiment showed an interesting side effect. The gas caused water to freeze at once. So professor Stein was ordered to research if this effect could be used for developping a new "ice-weapon". Further records of this project got lost during the last days of war. Prof. Stein seemingly managed to evade the Allies after the war and escaped to Argentinia. Rumors have that he further persued the idea of an "ice-weapon" and worked it out theoretically. He is also told to have offered it to the Argentine navy. But they showed no interest, and he finally died as a bitterly disappointed man. Many years later, one of his grandsons sold the complete estate to a German-American antic dealer who actually was an undercover CIA agent. This is the true story. Believe me! Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: New Flagship Models Web site Our web site has moved. Please make note of the new URL: http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) To: SMML Subject: Pacific Front: New Kits In We have received these kits in since our January UPDATE: 1/700 Samek German Light Cruiser Konigsberg (WW 2)....$45.00 1/700 Samek USS ALASKA...re-stock....$85.00 MODELKRAK (Poland) WW 1 and earlier Russian ships. Very nice quality resin kits. 1/700 Modelkrak Russian Round Armored Ship NOVGOROD...$17.50 1/700 Modelkrak Russian Black Sea Fleet Dispatch Vessel KOLCHIDA...$17.50 1/700 Modelkrak Russian Gunboat MANDZUR....$17.50 1/700 Modelkrak Russian Torpedo Boat ZVIERIEV....$17.50 1/700 Modelkrak Russian Minesweeper AMUR.....$15.00 We also have the new Gakken Books No. 18 on IJN Destroyers & Light Cruisers....$30.00 COMING SOON...Kojinsha/Maru Ship NEW SERIES pictorial softbounds Vol. 1 - IJN Battleships Yamato, Musashi, Nagato & Mutsu. Complete with English caption & text translation pamphlet!...Due Mid -March...$32.00 Thank you, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com Ps: Almost forgot: We will be receiving the Revell 1/720 German carrier Graf Zeppelins back in about Friday the 5th. Price will be $22.00. Thanks, Bill Gruner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume